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[eizarus]

This came up on my Facebook feed and I found it to be an interesting article and decided to share it.

Paranoia, resentment and a crude anti-Americanism have been nurtured inside the Hermit Kingdom for decades. Children are taught to hate Americans in school while adults mark a “Struggle Against U.S. Imperialism Month” every year

“The hate, though,” as long-time North Korea watcher Blaine Harden observed in the Washington Post, “ is not all manufactured.” Some of it, he wrote, “is rooted in a fact-based narrative, one that North Korea obsessively remembers and the United States blithely forgets.”

Forgets as in the “forgotten war.” Yes, the Korean War. Remember that? The one wedged between World War II and the Vietnam War? The first “hot” war of the Cold War, which took place between 1950 and 1953, and which has since been conveniently airbrushed from most discussions and debates about the “crazy” and “insane” regime in Pyongyang?

For the record, it was the North Koreans, and not the Americans or their South Korean allies, who started the war in June 1950, when they crossed the 38th Parallel and invaded the south.

“What hardly any Americans know or remember,” University of Chicago historian Bruce Cumings writes in his book “The Korean War: A History,” “is that we carpet-bombed the north for three years with next to no concern for civilian casualties.”

How many Americans know that “over a period of three years or so,” to quote Air Force General Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, “we killed off … 20 percent of the population”?

[Supreme Court Justice William O.] Douglas visited Korea in the summer of 1952 and was stunned by the “misery, disease, pain and suffering, starvation” that had been “compounded” by air strikes. U.S. warplanes, having run out of military targets, had bombed farms, dams, factories and hospitals. “I had seen the war-battered cities of Europe,” the Supreme Court justice confessed, “but I had not seen devastation until I had seen Korea.”

There's a lot more in the article but I just quoted the parts that really hit me. 😐

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03...e-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/

Spoiler

and no I don't sympathise with Fat Dawg Kim

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Because they are told to do it without access to counter arguements.
I don't know if you've ever lived in or even just visited a country without free speech (real free speech, not GOP 'merica BS) or access to free news. It can be quite suffocating how easy it is to manipulate the population with just one side of the story.

 

[dommynick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsJjP3He4h8

This video explains it pretty well, directly from the perspective of actual North Koreans.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

It can be quite suffocating how easy it is to manipulate the population with just one side of the story.

How many Americans know that “over a period of three years or so,” to quote Air Force General Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, “we killed off … 20 percent of the population”?

My favourite thing is people in the US talking about propaganda from countries like North Korea whilst not realising just how much propaganda about those countries the US themselves spits out.

 

[eizarus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsJjP3He4h8

This video explains it pretty well, directly from the perspective of actual North Koreans.

Thanks. That was really insightful.

My favourite thing is people in the US talking about propaganda from countries like North Korea whilst not realising just how much propaganda about those countries the US themselves spits out.

I mentioned this a year ago or so ago (when the US passed that law allowing propaganda again) on Reddit and it shocked me to see how many people thought that the US didn't indulge in propaganda themselves.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Well we bombed other countries like Japan and Germany and now we're close allies. I think it's more hat hptheir government is in opposition to the US than the bombings.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

My favourite thing is people in the US talking about propaganda from countries like North Korea whilst not realising just how much propaganda about those countries the US themselves spits out.

And its dangerous, especially in warping the views of the young and less educated...but there are alternatives freely available in the USA.

Also, I'm not from the US

 

[Phu]

I didn't learn the nitty-gritty about the Korean War and the whole situation over there until college when I specifically took Asian history/related classes. In grade school we just got the general points of the war [and most wars] since most classes themselves were more general and tried to cram in everything that ever happened in North America and Europe. Any classes that were more focused homed in on the US [like government].

 

[Majine]

A myth that's worth dispelling is that north koreans think they are economically prosperous.

I remember seeing a propaganda poster that I thought was very interesting. It displays a downtown scene in South Korea. Lots of people, cars, it all looks very romanticized and not exactly what you're used to seeing from NK posters.

But in the picture, the people are gathered around a TV store, and they are all watching one TV that's showing Kim-Jong Il or Kim Il Sung, can't remember. Point being, they are well aware that they are economically behind the outside world. But their narrative is that they have the moral high ground, and that South Korea sold their soul to the devil (America).

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

The American military flattened the country to the point where there were no more targets left, and the American military also purposely destroyed their dams to flood all their crops and destroy the livelihood of an entire generation afterwards

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

And its dangerous, especially in warping the views of the young and less educated...but there are alternatives freely available in the USA.

Also, I'm not from the US

Sorry, didn't mean to say that you were American, that's just a very common source of those views.

And sure alternatives might be available, but it's not as if it's as readily accessible. Unless you actively look for alternative sources you'll primarily get the propaganda, and anything that could be considered a danger to the status quo is denounced or ridiculed.

 

[shnurgleton]

Cumings is an excellent historian and doesn't shy away from talking about the war atrocities on both sides. His book on the Korean War was very eye opening for me.

We really bungled it when we basically dared the Chinese to get involved.

 

[Chuckie]

My favourite thing is people in the US talking about propaganda from countries like North Korea whilst not realising just how much propaganda about those countries the US themselves spits out.

With one HUGE difference though. Here we are...discussing the horrible actions the US did in Korea, after an historian freely wrote a book about the horrible actions of the US, that we all can order and freely read.

Can the North Koreans do the same?

There is a big difference between North Korean propaganda and the admittedly shameful way Western countries like to omit atrocities from the history books used in classrooms.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

With one HUGE difference though. Here we are...discussing the horrible actions the US did in Korea, after an historian freely wrote a book about the horrible actions of the US, that we all can order and freely read.

Can the North Koreans do the same?

There is a big difference between North Korean propaganda and the admittedly shameful way Western countries like to omit atrocities from the history books used in classrooms.

I'm not saying they're overly comparable, but I feel like there's a level of insidiousness that often gets ignored with US propaganda

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

I'm not saying they're overly comparable, but I feel like there's a level of insidiousness that often gets ignored with US propaganda

Right, North Korea isn't innocent but it should be known they didn't become what they are today entirely because of their own doing. It would actually be surprising if they didn't show this hostility towards a country (US) that gave them so much despair

 

[WhateverItTakes]

20% of the population is an insane figure. Not hard to see why such an insane regime rose from that destruction.

Really can't see how the North Korea problem can be solved. Left alone they'll keep pushing other country's buttons and potentially launch something catastrophic, all the while making their inhabitants suffer. Intervene, and there'll be an astronomical body count, and having to integrate those left into a globalised world they know nothing about.

 

[DevilDog]

Interesting

 

[Imperfected]

Not really brimming with sympathy when their "revolution" somehow degenerated immediately into a salt-the-earth genocide campaign. The "US" didn't fight North Korea, it was a unilateral UN action because basically everyone with any shred of decency agreed that what they were doing to South Korea was monstrous and senseless, and they got bombed practically to oblivion because they staunchly refused to stop being monsters.

Now, if you want to argue that the UN forces should have more readily accepted a resolution that didn't include retaking Pyongyang so that the Chinese didn't feel the need to get involved, that's maybe a valid line of discussion. Though, even then, it's not exactly hard to understand why they weren't keen on leaving that many people under the thumb of a regime who seemed to think a war of annihilation was the opening move against their own ethnicity in the communist playbook.

The reason the Korean War is the "forgotten war" isn't because we're ashamed of what we did, it's because we're ashamed of what we didn't do: it was a just and necessary military action in which the US failed. By contrast, we're somewhat more willing to accept our failure in Vietnam because it was poorly justified and unnecessary; it was a war we aren't even sure we should have won.

 

[Enduin]

I just watched a bunch of different Korean War Docs and they don't mention any of this kind of stuff, it's all just major events of the war sadly. They also spend little, or absolutely no, time on the pre-war build up. I had originally gone out to look for some kind of doc about Kim Il-sung and his rise and years as leader. I know he was a guerilla fighter during WWII for the Soviets but not much else. Sadly there was nothing on either him or the preceding years before war, which is crazy.

Much like post war Germany the US and USSR split Korea in half for either side to administer along the 38th parallel as that was as far as the Soviets had gotten down the peninsula. In little more than 4 years the divide apparently grew so great between North/South, Communist/Nationalist, that war was inevitable and animosity so great between Communists and Nationalist that no act of violence was too great. The war opened with just terrible and unnecessary violations of civilians and so it's no surprise things escalated the way they did. Not to mention McCarther and LeMay were crazy and wanted to use Nukes like they tic-tacs. WWII heroes and all that, but holy shit were they cold blooded and arrogant. Not to mention Syngman Rhee who was a tyrant in his own right.

 

[Idle Storm]

This is why. They think we live so poorly that we have to eat snow. ayyyy

 

[Lafazar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsJjP3He4h8

This video explains it pretty well, directly from the perspective of actual North Koreans.

Wow, this is a fantastic video. Thanks for linking it.

 

[andythinkpad]

Cumings is an excellent historian and doesn't shy away from talking about the war atrocities on both sides. His book on the Korean War was very eye opening for me.

We really bungled it when we basically dared the Chinese to get involved.

Most of it was McCarthy's fault. I never understood the people who worship him.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

 

[SuperBanana]

I went to the War Museum in North Korea. They constantly refer to America as "The American aggressors" and SK as "The puppet regime". It shows videos about rich Americans wanting war to profit off it and launching an attack again the North relentlessly. Every building that was rebuild or monument that was repaired is always reminded that the original was destroyed by the American aggressors. They also claim that America used biological weapons against them including ants that were given diseases to spread among the population.

They aren't just taught that America is the enemy of the country but that Americas HATES North Koreans and wanted to obliterate them in the war and will kill them again without the protection of the leader.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

My favourite thing is people in the US talking about propaganda from countries like North Korea whilst not realising just how much propaganda about those countries the US themselves spits out.

Infuckingdeed!

"America is the most free country on Earth"

Nope.

"Our students are the smartest"

Nope.

"America single-handedly saved the world from Nazis"

Nope.

I mean, the list is virtually endless. We're one of the most deluded countries on the planet.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

My favourite thing is people in the US talking about propaganda from countries like North Korea whilst not realising just how much propaganda about those countries the US themselves spits out.

Yeah but the difference lies in that information is readily available for those that wish to inform themselves in these other countries.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

They are also taught that the US started the Korean War, which is important

 

[eizarus]

Infuckingdeed!

"America is the most free country on Earth"

Nope.

"Our students are the smartest"

Nope.

"America single-handedly saved the world from Nazis"

Nope.

I mean, the list is virtually endless. We're one of the most deluded countries on the planet.

Reminds me of that scene from a Jeff Daniels movie where he pretty much goes crazy about that stuff. https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk

Off topic but are you a Blizzard dev? 🤔

 

[And_Gignac]

Yeah but the difference lies in that information is readily available for those that wish to inform themselves in these other countries.

Yeah and so? You still got your Trumps and your GOPs controlling over half the country precisely because of the propaganda being feed to voters.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Yeah and so? You still got your Trumps and your GOPs controlling over half the country precisely because of the propaganda being feed to voters.

What do you mean and so lmao. If you're a fucking sheep and want to just follow what your beliefs are with your party and ignore everything else that's entirely on you and has zero to do with which country you're in as it's an issue in every single country.

I'm saying that the difference is that if you're willing to get informed and expand your knowledge, even that which directly goes against what you're being told, you have the option in these countries.

In North Korea, and China to an extent though a Chinese citizen can correct me if I'm mistaken, you don't have this option. You can doubt all you want but can't inform yourself particularly if it's critique of your government that paints it in a bad light. That's a huge difference for people who may desire to inform themselves. For many this may mean they have no option but to believe this crap.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Yeah but the difference lies in that information is readily available for those that wish to inform themselves in these other countries.

Thing is though, there are a load of questions I could ask people where they either won't have any idea or be entirely wrong about it, but it's not something they're ever going to look into so the propaganda is the default position.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Thing is though, there are a load of questions I could ask people where they either won't have any idea or be entirely wrong about it, but it's not something they're ever going to look into so the propaganda is the default position.

That's more of an issue of them being easily susceptible and gullible. Which again, is definitely an issue. But at least for those willing to get informed the means are there. We can't ever get rid of dummies.