momolicious
Member
whats wrong with them in games. if they were so bad then why would games implement it at all?
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why do people hate Escort missions~?
- Thread starter momolicious
- Start date
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Crappy AI, lack of communication between your character and the character that's supposed to be under your command, irritation with having your game end without a direct error on your part.
I hate them because you're relying on sub-par to non-existant AI for the escorted thing.
I hate them because sometimes it may take a second longer to dispatch something, while 5 other things are attacking the escorted thing.
I hate them because you may get to the very end of the mission, and the escorted thing dies requiring you to do the whole thing over.
I hate them because it takes you out of the overall design of the game, to do something that the game wasn't really designed to do.
I hate them because I feel like I'm not in control of the situation.
And why are they put in games so much?
Because they're braindead easy to design. Easy cop-out timefiller.
I hate them because sometimes it may take a second longer to dispatch something, while 5 other things are attacking the escorted thing.
I hate them because you may get to the very end of the mission, and the escorted thing dies requiring you to do the whole thing over.
I hate them because it takes you out of the overall design of the game, to do something that the game wasn't really designed to do.
I hate them because I feel like I'm not in control of the situation.
And why are they put in games so much?
Because they're braindead easy to design. Easy cop-out timefiller.
Gamers like to whine.
But also i think that it leads easily to frustration. Most of the time, the character that you escort is having some bad AI and it often lead to frustrating deaths that are not your fault.
Or sometimes they are good damn slow.
If those characters were nicely and with pretty much human like AIs, it would be like playing in coop = very nice. But it's a long way from here.
In RE4 is wasn't annoying as we are used to. The game does not put Ashley in ridiculous situations where her AI is too bad to survive. Most of the time anyway you just drop here where there won't be any ennemies and everything is fine.
But also i think that it leads easily to frustration. Most of the time, the character that you escort is having some bad AI and it often lead to frustrating deaths that are not your fault.
Or sometimes they are good damn slow.
If those characters were nicely and with pretty much human like AIs, it would be like playing in coop = very nice. But it's a long way from here.
In RE4 is wasn't annoying as we are used to. The game does not put Ashley in ridiculous situations where her AI is too bad to survive. Most of the time anyway you just drop here where there won't be any ennemies and everything is fine.
Barry Lightning
Banned
who here hates escorts??
SolidSnakex
Member
I cna handle the escort missions where you're always near the person you're helping. The missions I don't like are the ones where you've got to snipe to protect someone while they do something.
In general they tend to be implimented better nowadays, but during the 16-bit era, especially in combat sims and such they tended to be painfull. Really I just hate the sort of escort missions where the charecter is tied to you via an invisible rubber band, and if you say, turn a corner too fast the charecter following you stops dead-cold whilst getting shot to peices.
I haevn't ran into a really frustrating escort missions since the end of the 32-bit era, mainly due to much better ai, but I'm sure they still exist.
I haevn't ran into a really frustrating escort missions since the end of the 32-bit era, mainly due to much better ai, but I'm sure they still exist.
The AI for most escort missions is absolutely awful and that's probably why most people don't like them. (Also this part was already said but I feel like repeating it just because)
For the most part RE4 is the only game I could think of that got it right, and that's mostly because you could hide Ashley in a trashcan somewhere while you're off killing angry Spanish people.
For the most part RE4 is the only game I could think of that got it right, and that's mostly because you could hide Ashley in a trashcan somewhere while you're off killing angry Spanish people.
There seem to be two varieties:
1) Who/what you are escorting is on a fixed path, and you have to keep them safe.
2) They follow you, and you have to keep them safe.
Both are badly used, most of the time. The former usually turns into rote memorization of where the enemies are coming from, thus taking most of the fun out of the mission. The latter is usually hampered by idiotic AI and often results in luck playing a disproportionate role in the outcome of the mission.
In both cases, they usually ruin the pacing of the game, and severely restrict the freedom to play that section in a variety of ways - there's usually a "right way" to do it, and you just have to learn it. Not what I look for in a game, especially shooters. The reported abundance of these are what killed my interest in PD0.
1) Who/what you are escorting is on a fixed path, and you have to keep them safe.
2) They follow you, and you have to keep them safe.
Both are badly used, most of the time. The former usually turns into rote memorization of where the enemies are coming from, thus taking most of the fun out of the mission. The latter is usually hampered by idiotic AI and often results in luck playing a disproportionate role in the outcome of the mission.
In both cases, they usually ruin the pacing of the game, and severely restrict the freedom to play that section in a variety of ways - there's usually a "right way" to do it, and you just have to learn it. Not what I look for in a game, especially shooters. The reported abundance of these are what killed my interest in PD0.
They are usually frustrating because you are forced to give up "complete" control, in games that tend to be singularly focused...
*hands shaken, stogies procured all around*
Because they sound good "on paper" to devs, who think: "This will be a nice change of pace from shooting stuff the rest of the game! Plus we can make the AI walk really slow, and add 3+ hours to the game's length!"momolicious said:
*hands shaken, stogies procured all around*
meltpotato
Member
as far as AI-escort missions, i would pretty much echo some of the complaints already posted.
but when i use to play counterstrike my favorite maps tended to be the vip maps where a player played as the VIP. especially fun on LAN.
but when i use to play counterstrike my favorite maps tended to be the vip maps where a player played as the VIP. especially fun on LAN.
poppin fresh
Member
The main issue I see with escort missions is that many game designers seem to throw them in at points for the sake of having them, it is like they feel it will automaticaly add to the diversity of gameplay when in actual fact most instances they just feel forced and break away from what can be other polished gameplay.
It is like they have simply been added to a pre existing mission that clearly lacked something, on a whole many instances of them are just implemented realy badly and give the concept a bad name.
The only good escort mission example I can think of right now is RE4.
On the other hand an example of a shitty escort missions would be mech assault, and like most things the bad ones stick in your mind far more (hell I can't remember the specifics of mech assault, I just remember some esscort mission giving me the shits).
But yeah to answer your original question I dunno why people hate ford escorts.
It is like they have simply been added to a pre existing mission that clearly lacked something, on a whole many instances of them are just implemented realy badly and give the concept a bad name.
The only good escort mission example I can think of right now is RE4.
On the other hand an example of a shitty escort missions would be mech assault, and like most things the bad ones stick in your mind far more (hell I can't remember the specifics of mech assault, I just remember some esscort mission giving me the shits).
But yeah to answer your original question I dunno why people hate ford escorts.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Topic creator should have named some games with good escort missions.
Uncle Dukey
Member
AdmiralViscen said:
ICO?
The Take Out Bandit
Member
The problem with most escort missions if the AI you're protecting isn't very intelligent, and the enemy AI is just a fucking pitbull - making it akin to carrying an egg through the Sumatran tsunami. >:|
marvelharvey
Member
One game that immediately springs to mind is Rogue Leader. Lots of escorts mission, lots of ships to look after but never any indication of their health status. Occasionally some dialogue would be triggered at 50% health or something, but you never knew when the ship was under attack by bombers and needed your assistance.
Anyway, it's part of cookie cutter game design. I remember having a meeting with a certain publisher's external producer and he was trying to force some ridiculous designs upon us. He broke the game down into...
-Escort mission
-Base infiltration (Stealth mission)
-Attack the convoy
-Attack base
-Defend base
-All out attack
The whole meeting seemed to break down into arguing the balance of how many of each mission type there should be, instead of designing the game and story.
Us "We have 2 stealth mission and 3 escort missions"
Publisher "NO, You need 1 stealth mission and 4 escort missions"
It was quite possibly the most redundant meeting I have ever been in. This producer no longer works at the publisher, thank god.
Anyway, it's part of cookie cutter game design. I remember having a meeting with a certain publisher's external producer and he was trying to force some ridiculous designs upon us. He broke the game down into...
-Escort mission
-Base infiltration (Stealth mission)
-Attack the convoy
-Attack base
-Defend base
-All out attack
The whole meeting seemed to break down into arguing the balance of how many of each mission type there should be, instead of designing the game and story.
Us "We have 2 stealth mission and 3 escort missions"
Publisher "NO, You need 1 stealth mission and 4 escort missions"
It was quite possibly the most redundant meeting I have ever been in. This producer no longer works at the publisher, thank god.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
marvelharvey said:
Good example.
I can imagine the 3D Sonic game design teams going to similar meetings.
inpHilltr8r
Member
Indeed, and probably because Yorda does virtually nothing without you instructing her, so you never feel cheated by her AI.Uncle Dukey said:
I remember in Silent Hill 4 you had to shepherd a gimpy woman around. Okay, I understand she's hurt, but she's also tottering around on high heel shoes. You would think a woman in mortal peril might lose the stilletos, but ...
Not only that, if you give this woman a weapon -- you know, thinking she might have to defend herself in an emergency -- she actually goes out of her way to attack enemies. I sat in utter disbelief as the woman ignored a straight path to safety, veered right toward a group of monsters, and began hitting them with her purse.
Oh, and the escort missions in State of Emergency were ridiculous. The A.I. for the people you needed to protect was nonexistant.
Not only that, if you give this woman a weapon -- you know, thinking she might have to defend herself in an emergency -- she actually goes out of her way to attack enemies. I sat in utter disbelief as the woman ignored a straight path to safety, veered right toward a group of monsters, and began hitting them with her purse.
Oh, and the escort missions in State of Emergency were ridiculous. The A.I. for the people you needed to protect was nonexistant.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
What was that Konami game where you talked to the character to control them?
Lifeline or something? I don't know, ya know that game im talking about?
Yea, was that any good?
Lifeline or something? I don't know, ya know that game im talking about?
Yea, was that any good?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Gamers hate obligation and responsibility.
xaosslug
Member
Because it's hard enough watching out for your own ass, but throw another one into the mix--without any common AI sense? Bitch, please.
I used to THANK GOD whenever
would get purloined in RE4, why couldn't I hand her a pistol and let her rip? I mean, sure she had zero training, but neither did Clare, I think. 
I long for the day when you can actually count on an AI partner in a game.
I used to THANK GOD whenever
Ashley
I long for the day when you can actually count on an AI partner in a game.
metropolis
Banned
i think it's really simple. to most people it's simply not fun to play an escort mission. you don't need to really look at it deeper than that.
the_zombie_luke
Member
AdmiralViscen said:
AdmiralViscen
Banned
I'd like to interrupt all the hate to remind everyone of one of the best games of all time:
Good control of your escortees makes all the difference.
Good control of your escortees makes all the difference.
The Take Out Bandit said:
The problem with most escort missions if the AI you're protecting isn't very intelligent, and the enemy AI is just a fucking pitbull - making it akin to carrying an egg through the Sumatran tsunami. >:|
Yes that game had some bad escort missions. I remember tie fighter having some very challenging ones.
:lol some of you guys have never played PSO I take it.
Your first mission has YOU being escorted!
Then there's Nol
but worst of all MOME.
MOME's AI got updated so that he plays dead!! Before that he would make you fail the mission over and over until you could 1 hit kill De Rol Le.
Your first mission has YOU being escorted!
Then there's Nol
but worst of all MOME.MOME's AI got updated so that he plays dead!! Before that he would make you fail the mission over and over until you could 1 hit kill De Rol Le.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Because most of the time the person you are escorting is really really dumbcake and looks at a gun and runs into its line of sight. Actually, one of the few games I didn't really mind escorting was Resident Evil 4, probably because there were no guns really that could shoot ashley and one could prevent her from getting grabbed.
Fallout-NL
Member
momolicious said:
The answers to that are bad AI and filler.
Error2k4 said:
Agreed, it wasnt annoying at all. And I even enjoyed sniping those guys in the head/back while they were busy running off with her.
AdmiralViscen said:
I think that's a core problem, especially with games of the past with limited artifical intelligence, and really a lack of awarness to their surroundings, the player and if they are being attacked or not. I thought Resident Evil 4 was one of the few games which absolutely nailed the esscort aspect, I mean you had a lot of options in terms of directing and positioning Ashley who was very aware of her surroundings and would duck almost instantly if your aim was pointed at her. I think if more games were as intiative, you wouldn't see as many complaints.
marvelharvey said:
Rogue Leader had a lot of feedback via voice-overs to let you know when a ship was being attacked, by whom and how critical their condition was. Endor is a perfect example, with regular updates on the medical frigate especially when the bombers arrived. Though unlike Resident Evil 4 which I spoke about you wouldn't really control or position the craft you were told to protect, and only had simple commands for wingmen which while nice, really needed more control.
Illuminati
Member
I enjoyed the VIP maps on Counter-Strike also. It is a damn shame they got rid of them, the oilrig map was one of my favorite.meltpotato said:
ICO was great but Yorda still managed to piss me off sometimes. Zelda games, especially wind waker, have some really awful escort missions. RE4's was not bad. In general, poor AI and stupid level designs/missions ruin escort missions. It also sucks losing because some dumb bitch got shot in the head.
P.S Escort missions where the person isn't defenseless are generally better.
P.S Escort missions where the person isn't defenseless are generally better.
MomoPufflet
Member
RE4's escorting wasn't really fun or interesting in itself, but it succeeded in the sense that it didn't infuriate me. ICO is the only game I've played that made the escorting an interesting and rewarding gameplay element.
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