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Windows Bug Found, Hurts Ryzen Gaming Performance

Bernoulli

Bernoulli

M2 slut


Some tests by a reddit user
Cyberpunk 2077 built-in benchmark:

Stock: 1%low - 93.3 FPS / Average - 179.9 FPS / Max - 246.4 FPS
Admin: 1%low - 96.3 FPS / Average - 195.4 FPS / Max - 271.6 FPS

Ratchet & Clank:

Stock: 1%low - 119.4 FPS / Average - 214.4 FPS / Max - 295.7 FPS
Admin: 1%low - 115.9 FPS / Average - 235.8 FPS / Max - 310.1 FPS

ACC:

Stock: 1%low - 112.2 FPS / Average - 143.6 FPS / Max - 214.2 FPS
Admin: 1%low - 120.9 FPS / Average - 154.5 FPS / Max - 223.1 FPS

LOTF2:

Stock: 1%low - 92.1 FPS / Average - 143.1 FPS / Max - 192.6 FPS
Admin: 1%low - 92.3 FPS / Average - 149.4 FPS / Max - 206.5 FPS

Ghost of Tsushima:

Stock: 1%low - 106.3 FPS / Average - 127.1 FPS / Max - 156.4 FPS
Admin: 1%low - 107.8 FPS / Average - 128.7 FPS / Max - 156.2 FPS
 
Thick Thighs Save Lives

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Just take the small perf hit until AMD & MS fixes the issue.

J2l9wxJ.png
 
S

SomeGit

Member
Last edited:
Loomy

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
KuraiShidosha said:
This is some serious beta cuck bullshit.
Only big dick alphas like me run with full admin privileges, no anti-virus realtime protection, updates disabled, regedits out the wazzoo, all for gaming performance.
Where my fellow min/maxers at.
Click to expand...
Really, if you're running an OS that is still getting regular security updates, just sell your PC and buy a Series S.
 
T4keD0wN

T4keD0wN

Member
That zen5 delay should have been much longer it seems.
More importantly how the hell is this a bug? Every cpu should perform better that way in theory, decade plus of this poor drivers and software shit with AMD at this point, zen3 was the only ryzen without major configuration issues, Intel is now fucking up in the same way, but at least theres a quick voltage adjustment fix by the user is possible.

Looking forward to next week when theyll disable exploit protection and claim that having it enabled is a bug that hurts performance.

I had my logic of "buy Intel when AMD is on top" and "buy AMD when Intel is on top". ARM doesnt look so funny now that theyre both down.
 
Last edited:
Loomy

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
When was the last time AMD had a launch that didn't need this kind of jerry-rigging to make it work as designed?
 
Bojji

Bojji

Gold Member
T4keD0wN said:
That zen5 delay should have been much longer it seems.
More importantly how the hell is this a bug? Every cpu should perform better that way in theory, decade plus of this poor drivers and software shit with AMD at this point, zen3 was the only ryzen without major configuration issues, Intel is now fucking up in the same way, but at least theres a quick voltage adjustment fix by the user is possible.

Looking forward to next week when theyll disable exploit protection and claim that having it enabled is a bug that hurts performance.

I had my logic of "buy Intel when AMD is on top" and "buy AMD when Intel is on top". ARM doesnt look so funny now that theyre both down.
Click to expand...

This shit is probably in W11 for years now and affects (at least) Zen 4.

It has nothing to do with Zen 5, just pure normal MS incompetence...
 
winjer

winjer

Member
MikeM said:
Problem is that AMD quoted benchmarks using this special admin mode knowing full well that 99.9% of people don’t use it).
Click to expand...

AMD needs full control of their Windows installation for profiling and debugging.
Intel and Nvidia probably do something similar.
Only after comparing notes with HU, did AMD notice there was a bug hindering performance.

And good thing they did, because they found this bug and when MS fixes their OS, we can have an improvement.
 
ReBurn

ReBurn

Gold Member
winjer said:
AMD needs full control of their Windows installation for profiling and debugging.
Intel and Nvidia probably do something similar.
Only after comparing notes with HU, did AMD notice there was a bug hindering performance.

And good thing they did, because they found this bug and when MS fixes their OS, we can have an improvement.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be so quick to let AMD off the hook here.

One would think that after running their benchmarking tools as an administrator AMD would then use a non-administrator account and re-run the benchmarks looking for differences caused by a more restrictive security profile with less access to parts of the system. They obviously aren't doing that. AMD should be embarrassed that a youtuber who didn't even know he wasn't automatically running as an administrator in Windows 11 found this problem before they did.

Windows security has restricted software from automatically running with full admin privileges for a long time now. If AMD doesn't have reliable benchmarking tools for their hardware that can be run without admin privileges then that's an AMD problem. They should be running benchmark tests as a normal user account ahead every Windows update to make sure they understand the impact to performance and that their CPU's continue to function as designed.

There obviously something going on between Windows and these CPU's that's causing this problem. That doesn't necessarily mean Windows broke the CPU's just because someone at AMD told this guy that's what happened. At this point it very much sounds like an engineer's typical "my thing works, the problem is the other guy's thing" game of hot potato that is played when diagnosing problems.
 
MikeM

MikeM

Gold Member
winjer said:
AMD needs full control of their Windows installation for profiling and debugging.
Intel and Nvidia probably do something similar.
Only after comparing notes with HU, did AMD notice there was a bug hindering performance.

And good thing they did, because they found this bug and when MS fixes their OS, we can have an improvement.
Click to expand...
I don’t buy it. They should have disclosed real world benches in the marketing. I’m glad they found a bug, but they should have sent out two benchmarks IMO- one under current Windows configurations and another for when/if it gets fixed. The lack of clarity is inexcusable.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
ReBurn said:
I wouldn't be so quick to let AMD off the hook here.

One would think that after running their benchmarking tools as an administrator AMD would then use a non-administrator account and re-run the benchmarks looking for differences caused by a more restrictive security profile with less access to parts of the system. They obviously aren't doing that. AMD should be embarrassed that a youtuber who didn't even know he wasn't automatically running as an administrator in Windows 11 found this problem before they did.

Windows security has restricted software from automatically running with full admin privileges for a long time now. If AMD doesn't have reliable benchmarking tools for their hardware that can be run without admin privileges then that's an AMD problem. They should be running benchmark tests as a normal user account ahead every Windows update to make sure they understand the impact to performance and that their CPU's continue to function as designed.

There obviously something going on between Windows and these CPU's that's causing this problem. That doesn't necessarily mean Windows broke the CPU's just because someone at AMD told this guy that's what happened. At this point it very much sounds like an engineer's typical "my thing works, the problem is the other guy's thing" game of hot potato that is played when diagnosing problems.
Click to expand...
MikeM said:
I don’t buy it. They should have disclosed real world benches in the marketing. I’m glad they found a bug, but they should have sent out two benchmarks IMO- one under current Windows configurations and another for when/if it gets fixed. The lack of clarity is inexcusable.
Click to expand...

You guys understand that no one knew about this bug until a few days ago, when AMD and HU compared performance numbers.
As far as anyone knew, including Microsoft, AMD, Intel, NVidia, and all reviewers, it was all the same.
 
MikeM

MikeM

Gold Member
winjer said:
You guys understand that no one knew about this bug until a few days ago, when AMD and HU compared performance numbers.
As far as anyone knew, including Microsoft, AMD, Intel, NVidia, and all reviewers, it was all the same.
Click to expand...
They could have saved lots of face disclosing it at the inset of release. And if anything, be the white knight in saying they found a CPU issue holding back perf which is a net win for the PC community once resolved.
Its not hard to be transparent and be the hero in a community that runs more on heart than brains.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
MikeM said:
They could have saved lots of face disclosing it at the inset of release. And if anything, be the white knight in saying they found a CPU issue holding back perf which is a net win for the PC community once resolved.
Its not hard to be transparent and be the hero in a community that runs more on heart than brains.
Click to expand...

There was nothing to disclose, because by the time the reviews were being made, no one knew about this bug.
If they had known, they would have put a recommendation in their test guidelines, as every company does.
You can be certain that if AMD had known about this bug, they would have disclosed it to reviewers, so that their CPUs would perform better in the reviews.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
DenchDeckard said:
Who isn't running their PC as Admin. I thought thats the standard? or am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

Different things.
What we run is a user account with Admin rights.
The Admin account, is a hidden account with higher privileges. And it's necessary a command to show it, in the log on screen.
 
MikeM

MikeM

Gold Member
winjer said:
There was nothing to disclose, because by the time the reviews were being made, no one knew about this bug.
If they had known, they would have put a recommendation in their test guidelines, as every company does.
You can be certain that if AMD had known about this bug, they would have disclosed it to reviewers, so that their CPUs would perform better in the reviews.
Click to expand...
Seems like AMD knew. Their benchmarks were based on using that mode from what i’m understanding (could be wrong though):



36:53
 
winjer

winjer

Member
MikeM said:
Seems like AMD knew. Their benchmarks were based on using that mode from what i’m understanding (could be wrong though):



36:53
Click to expand...


Steve is saying that AMD was investigating the reason why their results were different from the media, and then found this bug.
HU are saying the same thing they said in the previous video.
No one knew about this until a couple of days ago. Neither Microsoft, nor AMD, nor the media.
 
Haint

Haint

Member
T4keD0wN said:
That zen5 delay should have been much longer it seems.
More importantly how the hell is this a bug? Every cpu should perform better that way in theory, decade plus of this poor drivers and software shit with AMD at this point, zen3 was the only ryzen without major configuration issues, Intel is now fucking up in the same way, but at least theres a quick voltage adjustment fix by the user is possible.

Looking forward to next week when theyll disable exploit protection and claim that having it enabled is a bug that hurts performance.

I had my logic of "buy Intel when AMD is on top" and "buy AMD when Intel is on top". ARM doesnt look so funny now that theyre both down.
Click to expand...

Zen 3 had broken USB support for like the first 6-8 months.
 
poppabk

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
And this is why you wait for actual reviews. Even when they aren't fudging their numbers - the manufacturers aren't testing these in the real world. Of course for stuff like the Intel fiasco where it's a delayed effect, even reviews aren't gonna tell you the whole story.
 
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