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[Tobimacoss]

It was a couple of straightforward questions, no need to be all cloak and dagger (unless you have to be of course).

I ignored those questions due to the absurdity of the notion. But if it makes ya feel better, I will answer one last time. All mods are volunteers, no incentives. MS has zero control over any Xbox, xcloud subreddits. Back in 2020, I liked trolling the Stadia subreddit, and the primary mod for /r/xcloud modded a bunch of us before leaving for university. Since then I have promoted 4 users to mod including the creator of Better xCloud. He is the one who also finds these leaks in the xCloud web app code.



xCloud engineers do hang out in the subreddit, either to gain feedback or help troubleshoot issues. They are clearly tagged with the proper flair, if you click that link, you will see /u/coolnerddude

MS employees on the Azure, xcloud teams have Blue "Verified MS Employee" flair, and Xbox employees have the Xbox Green "Verified Xbox Employee" flair. Mods have purple flair, I chose not to add a flair to mine.

I enjoy gaming and tech related discussions and Magnus is currently my favorite topic. So what happened was, when MLID leaked his first video, Kepler visited the respective post in /r/gamingleaksandrumours subreddit. So I just decided to finally create a Neogaf account, then to find out my email was already used, so I did password recovery.

Let's be real here. This is the "mask-off" moment for what MS intentions have been for GP from the start.

If a person is spending $360 a year on a subscription, realistically how many games are they expecting them to buy from outside of the service ?

I'd say, very few, or any at all.

Almost as if they want a complete replacement for all alternative distribution methods... a monopoly where players own nothing.

Conspiracy theories are the best kinda theories. All MS is trying to do is create a successful streaming and subscription service regardless of what others in the industry may do. There's no monopoly, all other distribution methods still exist.

I just said the post from @reinking.

My reply to reinking was only technical, explaining the conversion process is akin to yearly, it was my other reply to other guy that discussed the content of each service and tier. Anyways, it doesn't matter, I'm not going to go back and read stuff.

It doesnt sound like game pass is winding down

Xbox has made "largest investment in Game Pass to date" this year, countering recent criticism of subscription service's value

This year has marked Xbox's "largest investment in Game Pass to date", according to ID@Xbox boss Chris Charla.

www.eurogamer.net

Full steam ahead

Steam is separate platform, so it's Full Stream ahead.....

Get it, xcloud stream....

 

[Topher]

My reply to reinking was only technical, explaining the conversion process is akin to yearly, it was my other reply to other guy that discussed the content of each service and tier. Anyways, it doesn't matter, I'm not going to go back and read stuff.

And I was pointing how it wasn't akin to yearly. Yeah....let's skip this since you are having a hard time keeping up with the conversation.

 

[Fess]

$30 is only really ok for a pretty small cohort. To get your moneys worth you'd need to be playing about 8 new major releases a year on the service, or far more for older games. They do release a lot on games pass, but how many are the games you're excited to play, are your genre preference, and would have previously purchased? Probably not that many. Additionally the percentage of gamers who have time for that many big games per year among older demographics (who have appropriate disposable capital) is not large. I do, as we don't have kids and my wife is more than happy to let me game whilst she crochets etc. I'm lucky tho, many would not be happy with their partners gaming as much as me….and I'm not sure even I hit that many BIG games per year, total games sure, more than that, but that'll be indies pulling up the numbers…then at the end of the day you don't own any of them. You can BUY plenty of games for $30 per month.

The ONLY scenario this makes sense to me for users is as random single month purchases for time rich people, who will sub for a month and binge play a couple of big releases, then cancel.

Critically imo it blows well past the typical birthday or Christmas present value. I've bought family members ps+ subs for Christmas etc before. It's like £100ish, it means they can game all year. I expect this will not really be viable for many people anymore.

Yeah I agree on all this, they've crossed a line here.

I've enjoyed Gamepass for a long time mainly because it's been so cheap. Prepaid deals. Used to have PS+ Premium too through similar cheap prepaid deals. $5/month. Used to say it's only half a pizza, I can afford that.

But $30/month?… Nah.

However, I managed to get some cheap 3-months codes so I'm putting the cancellation process on hold for awhile.

If a person is spending $360 a year on a subscription, realistically how many games are they expecting them to buy from outside of the service ?

I'd say, very few, or any at all.

No joke I was already skipping regular purchases at $5/month… I use Gamepass whenever possible, haven't bought a single full priced game this year. When I do buy games I do it on Steam and I also keep hoarding free Epic games. Nothing on Microsoft Store or PlayStation Store at this point, I've bought a couple games on Switch 2 though but that's it.

 

[Nydius]

My reply to reinking was only technical, explaining the conversion process is akin to yearly, it was my other reply to other guy that discussed the content of each service and tier. Anyways, it doesn't matter, I'm not going to go back and read stuff.

You keep arguing in favor of the conversion process but it's still more expensive than Sony's top level annual offering.

PS+ Premium, direct from Sony: $159.99 annually.

Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, direct from Microsoft: $29.99/mo x 12 months, $359.88 annually.

Using the 3 year retail Essential + 1 month Ultimate conversion stacking I posted earlier: $255 for 15 months, or $17 per month, which brings it to $204 annually.

I'm sure your counter argument is going to be gray market sellers or something similar but the vast majority of people don't use those.

 

[Bernardougf]

The fuck do tariffs have to do with a digital subscription?

Because... shut up

 

[mdkirby]

Yeah I agree on all this, they've crossed a line here.

I've enjoyed Gamepass for a long time mainly because it's been so cheap. Prepaid deals. Used to have PS+ Premium too through similar cheap prepaid deals. $5/month. Used to say it's only half a pizza, I can afford that.

But $30/month?… Nah.

However, I managed to get some cheap 3-months codes so I'm putting the cancellation process on hold for awhile.


No joke I was already skipping regular purchases at $5/month… I use Gamepass whenever possible, haven't bought a single full priced game this year. When I do buy games I do it on Steam and I also keep hoarding free Epic games. Nothing on Microsoft Store or PlayStation Store at this point, I've bought a couple games on Switch 2 though but that's it.

Oddly I do actually find value in ps+, for a few reasons. They have a fair few very good day one indies launch on ps+ as your "keep" monthly games, or sometimes in the catalogue….which mostly makes up the cost, then they have PlayStation plus discounts on new releases or double discounts on sales. I spend at least £700 a year on digital PlayStation games, so it ends up well worth the sub even excluding all the hundreds of games in the back catalogue you get….and it's only about £120 a year.

 

[demigod]

- Before and after the ABK acquisition, = "hahaha, more games for us, you keep spending those 60-70$ on your platforms hahaha"

- When news of going 3rd party started coming out : "LOL, it's only a couple of games"

- After more than a "couple" of games started releasing on the competing platform : "hahaha, you said Xbox has no games and now you're buying OUR games Ponies, ahahaha"

- When mentioning that MS, their beloved multi trillion company basically threw all of their userbase under the bus by devaluing the whole Xbox platform by doing so : laughing emojis

- When news/rumours of future Xbox platforms supporting Steam hit : "hahaha, we're gonna be playing YOUR games on OUR platform"

Frankly, after what's been happening in the past couple of days, I'm really curious to see what the new spin will be, surely they'll finally shut up ?

PS: The new news about retailers trying to unload their XSX/XSS stock after the GP price increase isn't a coincidence btw, unfortunately, all signs show that this brand is going the way of the dodo for better or worse.

You forgot the "when everybody plays, we all win."

"Ponies are subsidizing Gamepass."

 

[Fess]

I spend at least £700 a year on digital PlayStation games, so it ends up well worth the sub even excluding all the hundreds of games in the back catalogue you get….and it's only about £120 a year.

£700 is a LOT of money.
Check out David Jaffe talking about Gamepass here, he's talking about how he would've bought games for $700 so GP is worth the money even at $360 a year for him.


But you're talking to a cheap ass gamer here… I just can't relate.

I mean I can spend insane money on hardware, I've got the 4090 and 5090 and 9950x3d and PS5 Pro and Switch 2, Xbox Ally X is preordered etc.

But software for me is such a short time investment. $95 for local full priced games for something I might play for a couple days, maybe a month in some cases. I almost never replay games so I always question myself if it's worth the money being there day 1, you're paying more and wade through bugs and patches. I opt out of it 9 times out of 10. Better to wait for Steam sales or use Gamepass if possible, assuming you got it cheap.

 

[mdkirby]

£700 is a LOT of money.
Check out David Jaffe talking about Gamepass here, he's talking about how he would've bought games for $700 so GP is worth the money even at $360 a year for him.


But you're talking to a cheap ass gamer here… I just can't relate.

I mean I can spend insane money on hardware, I've got the 4090 and 5090 and 9950x3d and PS5 Pro and Switch 2, Xbox Ally X is preordered etc.

But software for me is such a short time investment. $95 for local full priced games for something I might play for a couple days, maybe a month in some cases. I almost never replay games so I always question myself if it's worth the money being there day 1, you're paying more and wade through bugs and patches. I opt out of it 9 times out of 10. Better to wait for Steam sales or use Gamepass if possible, assuming you got it cheap.

I also never replay, never understood the appeal, I like a single player game, then I'm done.

Haha fair, sometimes I forget Gaf isn't just tech industry folk in their 40s (tho I'm sure we're waaaay over represented here). Obviously everyone is different, and it's all relative, but I personally find gaming (software and hardware, unless ur doing pc stuff) to be a remarkably cheap hobby, certainly from a cost per time perspective.

A McDonald's order for 2 is £40, a glass of prosecco in a bar is £12 etc. A game for £40-£70 that lasts for 40-100+ hours of game time spread over a couple of weeks is extremely good value.

There was times in my life ofcourse where I would have been much more cost sensitive, during which gamespass would have prob been my only viable option, under which conditions I would 100% utilise it. These days, (tho certainly a privilege) I'd rather fork out £70 to support a dev I think deserves the purchase over a stream, or because I'd rather stay in the PS ecosystem and use the dual sense. I find having to switch devices just annoying and inconvenient too (haven't bought a physical game in many years for the same reason).

Same is applied to the hardware, a ps pro is what? £800ish? But I literally use it every day for both media center and gaming, and will do for years. Likewise with an expensive Tv or a sofa. Say you spend £5000 on a sofa, but how often do you replace it? our last one we had for 10 years, that works out at <£1.40/day for something I will spend many hours sat on EVERY day, same with a bed (7+hr every night) or tv.

What is arguably "expensive" and wasteful is a car. They cost a shit ton more, and really, unless you travel a lot how much time do you actually spend using it? We're possibly an extreme examples as all our food and "stuff" etc is delivered, and for convenience I get Ubers to the office. So it gets used by my wife for travel to work, there and back, twice a week, about 20 min trip each way. So we're talking what, 2 hours use PER WEEK for things that are priced in the tens of thousands (never mind all the road tax etc). It's comparatively a really terrible cost benefit/time ratio.

Cinema? again, way more, gym? say unlike myself you actually succeed in going for an hour once a week, that's still like £25 for 4 hours…almost anything you compare it to, even premium priced gaming is an excellent deal. Conversely, yes, if you choose it to be, it's also never been cheaper, like not even remotely close. Growing up games weren't that much cheaper in RRP than they are now, they didn't get aggressive sales and held value longer, and were WAY shorter, often only an hour or so long, padded by extreme difficulty. There was no services that gave you hundreds of games, with an ever growing catalogue through the year for the price of a fairly normal/affordable birthday or Christmas present. Like as a kid you'd get a few games a year, and that'd be your lot. In these last few years even a relatively frugal parent could give a kid endless games each year (tho I think this is broken with the new pricing, it's like the difference between impulse buy costs and not, and it's def crossed into "not", it could well sink xbox imo).

 

[demigod]

A McDonald's order for 2 is £40, a glass of prosecco in a bar is £12 etc. A game for £40-£70 that lasts for 40-100+ hours of game time spread over a couple of weeks is extremely good value.

How much do you eat that a McDonald's cost over $40 for 2 people?!?

 

[mdkirby]

How much do you eat that a McDonald's cost over $40 for 2 people?!?

Not a lot really, 2 meals, ie a bigmac meal, and another, a share box of chicken, a share box of cheese, maybe an apple pie each.

The chicken and cheese will double up as a lazy lunch on a Saturday.

Macdonalds isn't overly cheap tbh, maybe 30% less than a restaurant delivery. Decent Indian or Thai delivery will be £60-£70 maybe £90 max for Thai if we waaay over order (but then it lasts most the weekend).

Dunno what it's like in the U.S, maybe it's still as cheap as i remember from the long long a go.

Edit: worth clarifying this is delivered via uber eats, so you do pay a bit of a premium

 

[Filben]

So what is the PC day one game increase?

It was 11,99EUR and now it's 14,99EUR when I checked a few days ago.

 

[GHG]

I ignored those questions due to the absurdity of the notion. But if it makes ya feel better, I will answer one last time. All mods are volunteers, no incentives. MS has zero control over any Xbox, xcloud subreddits. Back in 2020, I liked trolling the Stadia subreddit, and the primary mod for /r/xcloud modded a bunch of us before leaving for university. Since then I have promoted 4 users to mod including the creator of Better xCloud. He is the one who also finds these leaks in the xCloud web app code.



xCloud engineers do hang out in the subreddit, either to gain feedback or help troubleshoot issues. They are clearly tagged with the proper flair, if you click that link, you will see /u/coolnerddude

MS employees on the Azure, xcloud teams have Blue "Verified MS Employee" flair, and Xbox employees have the Xbox Green "Verified Xbox Employee" flair. Mods have purple flair, I chose not to add a flair to mine.

I enjoy gaming and tech related discussions and Magnus is currently my favorite topic. So what happened was, when MLID leaked his first video, Kepler visited the respective post in /r/gamingleaksandrumours subreddit. So I just decided to finally create a Neogaf account, then to find out my email was already used, so I did password recovery.

I didn't ask you whether on not they control the subreddit.

They have never had any control of this website but l that's never stopped them from rewarding certain individuals for their activities here. They've even gone on to employ certain individuals.

 

[demigod]

I didn't ask you whether on not they control the subreddit.

They have never had any control of this website but l that's never stopped them from rewarding certain individuals for their activities here. They've even gone on to employ certain individuals.

Hi there old friend.



Did this dude ever end up suing you EviLore ?

 

[GHG]

Hi there old friend.



Did this dude ever end up suing you EviLore ?

Not even referring to him.

This is Z Zedox

 

[demigod]

Not even referring to him.

This is Z Zedox

Wtf that dude works for xbox now? He was a major fanboy.

 

[hinch7]

Not a lot really, 2 meals, ie a bigmac meal, and another, a share box of chicken, a share box of cheese, maybe an apple pie each.

The chicken and cheese will double up as a lazy lunch on a Saturday.

Macdonalds isn't overly cheap tbh, maybe 30% less than a restaurant delivery. Decent Indian or Thai delivery will be £60-£70 maybe £90 max for Thai if we waaay over order (but then it lasts most the weekend).

Dunno what it's like in the U.S, maybe it's still as cheap as i remember from the long long a go.

Edit: worth clarifying this is delivered via uber eats, so you do pay a bit of a premium

Damn that's a lot. I used to eat a lot of junk including Maccy's, Kababs and Indians takeouts, now the thought of it puts me off since I've been back on training and weight lifting again. Prices have risen a lot for fast food which is a good incentive to stop eating crap.

KFC is probably the worst of the lot when it comes to price hikes but they do might fine hot wings and gravy.

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

I think all the people who want to play aaa games day one and playing ten games the same time will pay ultimate.

People like me, owning 50 games, and only played a handful till the end, will relax and watch the show.

I made a step down to premium.
Less games, yes...no flightsim any more I guess, but when I want a a game I buy it.

I can wait till there's a sale. Playing games day one is a massive risc today. Cyberpunk, Starfield etc...people playing these day one were blamed.

Just relax, step down and the system will regulate itself.

 

[memoryman3]

It doesnt sound like game pass is winding down

Xbox has made "largest investment in Game Pass to date" this year, countering recent criticism of subscription service's value

This year has marked Xbox's "largest investment in Game Pass to date", according to ID@Xbox boss Chris Charla.

www.eurogamer.net

Full steam ahead

Flies in the face of most Sneakers rumors last year.

Remember that Nvidia charge $20 a month for their cloud service with no games included (you have to bring your own library). Xbox is charging less and including games, or charging a bit more and giving you over 75 games (many AAA) day one. Image quality/latency is planned to get a big boost in the future.

 

[GHG]

Wtf that dude works for xbox now? He was a major fanboy.

It's really not surprising to be honest.

They've always rewarded and embraced people who have displayed those kinds of behaviours.

It also creates a cycle in that young/impressionable individuals see that behaviour being rewarded so will also partake in the hope that one day they will also be rewarded with gifts/access/employment.

 

[mdkirby]

Damn that's a lot. I used to eat a lot of junk including Maccy's, Kababs and Indians takeouts, now the thought of it puts me off since I've been back on training and weight lifting again. Prices have risen a lot for fast food which is a good incentive to stop eating crap.

KFC is probably the worst of the lot when it comes to price hikes but they do might fine hot wings and gravy.

Looking back at the post it's actually more, as you mentioned dollar, £40 is $53

We're not too bad, it's just a guilty pleasure once every 2 or 3 weeks. The usual food is Ocado deliveries, which is M&S, I guess whole foods would be the U.S. equivalent. Then supplemented with random Amazon or uber eats grocery deliveries for bits and bobs we forget…and a restaurant delivery once a week, prob alternating between "crap" like mcD vs a proper thing like a good Thai or Indian restaurant.

Don't get me wrong, I def don't eat healthy and I exclusively only drink 3 things, coke, coffee and 100% watermelon juice. I am blessed with never gaining weight but I'm sure my insides are a train wreck, and I should really use that gym membership I have but never go to. They really have quite a racket going those places.

 

[Sooner]

Ms will back down with this price it's a publicly stunt

30 a month is the cost of my maid for cleaning I could sack her and learn to clean my self but I have too many games to play

If they do, they are officially the most reactive company ever. They are constantly starting fires, then doing a full 180 to put them out after the public outcry, which should have been obvious beforehand.

Each time they do this, the do major trust damage to the brand only to end up where they started. It's been happening since the Xbox One was announced to be an always online DRM machine with a mandatory camera that was always listening.

 

[hinch7]

Looking back at the post it's actually more, as you mentioned dollar, £40 is $53

We're not too bad, it's just a guilty pleasure once every 2 or 3 weeks. The usual food is Ocado deliveries, which is M&S, I guess whole foods would be the U.S. equivalent. Then supplemented with random Amazon or uber eats grocery deliveries for bits and bobs we forget…and a restaurant delivery once a week, prob alternating between "crap" like mcD vs a proper thing like a good Thai or Indian restaurant.

Don't get me wrong, I def don't eat healthy and I exclusively only drink 3 things, coke, coffee and 100% watermelon juice. I am blessed with never gaining weight but I'm sure my insides are a train wreck, and I should really use that gym membership I have but never go to. They really have quite a racket going those places.

True we get ripped off a lot especially on services charges on top lol. At least we're not as bad as many other countries. In Holland for example (or Netherlands) food is oh so expensive. Maccy's is like a tenner there for a meal and you get charged more for sauces etc and everything extra. Same with supermarkets.

But yeah life's enjoyment is also from good eating lol. And thank your good genes and metabolism for you to keep slim, while eating those foods. I used to be like that and enjoyed every moment of it.

Gyming is decent once you get into it. Quite addictive to see progression in improving yourself. Like leveling up, but in real life lol. Well worth it even if you go like once a week. There's Pure Gym which is probably the cheapest commercial one out there but also busy AF all day.

 

[Majukun]

what's confusing is that for the only PC version you get a kinda hybrid version between ultimate and premium, with still day one games and ea pass, but no cloud gaming

 

[mdkirby]

True we get ripped off a lot especially on services charges on top lol. At least we're not as bad as many other countries. In Holland for example (or Netherlands) food is oh so expensive. Maccy's is like a tenner there for a meal and you get charged more for sauces etc and everything extra. Same with supermarkets.

But yeah life's enjoyment is also from good eating lol. And thank your good genes and metabolism for you to keep slim, while eating those foods. I used to be like that and enjoyed every moment of it.

Gyming is decent once you get into it. Quite addictive to see progression in improving yourself. Like leveling up, but in real life lol. Well worth it even if you go like once a week. There's Pure Gym which is probably the cheapest commercial one out there but also busy AF all day.

Yah it's pure gym I sub to, me and my wife started going to the first time about 6 months before the pandemic, actually started going regularly one or twice a week…then lockdown, and not been back since…still pay for it, everytime we think "we should cancel that….we then think, I mean really we should just start going", then promptly never cancel it…and that's been happening for years now.

As for Denmark, they have a really high quality of life and score super high on "happiness" metrics and societal cohesion, as I understand it people are paid very fairly, the result of higher wages for fast food workers etc is higher cost of food tho…any mac Donald's in Europe to be fair is waaaay better quality food than the US fast food joints…most American food is just straight up poison

 

[Astray]

After everything that's happened these past couple of days, it somehow still comes back to Warz® and "Game Pass™, the best deal in gaming®."

Man, some of you really aren't planning on retiring from shilling anytime soon I guess.

Microsoft is doing its layoffs in the wrong spots tbh.

They should fire more shills and less devs.

 

[hinch7]

Yah it's pure gym I sub to, me and my wife started going to the first time about 6 months before the pandemic, actually started going regularly one or twice a week…then lockdown, and not been back since…still pay for it, everytime we think "we should cancel that….we then think, I mean really we should just start going", then promptly never cancel it…and that's been happening for years now.

As for Denmark, they have a really high quality of life and score super high on "happiness" metrics and societal cohesion, as I understand it people are paid very fairly, the result of higher wages for fast food workers etc is higher cost of food tho…any mac Donald's in Europe to be fair is waaaay better quality food than the US fast food joints…most American food is just straight up poison

Aha fair enough. You guys have the right spirit, at least. Also easy to forget you have certain subscriptions when there are so many these days.

Nice. Really need to go there one day. The Danes seem like very chill/happy people. Yeah a little concerning for McD vs NA foods.. but not surprised I've tried some US foods (imported mind) and they tasted like they are full of chemicals. Packaged snacks in particular; like Twinkies. I'm surprised people consider that as food lol. The freshest foods probably come from East Asia, like in China/Hong Kong the food there is on complete another level from the Chinese restaurants we have here - absolute heaven if you enjoy those foods. The latter having the longest life expectancy per person/population.

 

[mitchman]

The pushback will force them to change this and partially revert back by having an ultimate without the ubisoft etc. stuff. Pretty sure the revert will happen this week, but that might be too late.

 

[Loope]

I wouldn't pay this amount of money, but i reckon for someone that plays a lot, 70€ a game, in a year if you play 5 games it's 350€ divided by 12 it's really close to 30€.

For me, personally it's a high price to justify it even for myself.

 

[Sooner]

I don't see a thread yet, but haven't they already started their panicking reacting they always do?

It sounds like they currently are telling current members they can keep the current price if they are subscribed and don't cancel.

 

[mckmas8808]

The pushback will force them to change this and partially revert back by having an ultimate without the ubisoft etc. stuff. Pretty sure the revert will happen this week, but that might be too late.

Isn't this stuff kinda baked in already? How can they back out now?

 

[mitchman]

Isn't this stuff kinda baked in already? How can they back out now?

They can make a new Ultimate tier that excludes all the ubisoft etc. stuff and place the price closer to the old price.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I just downloaded Hogwarts Legacy last night, using PC Gamepass.
PC Gamepass is still not too bad a price.

Why does PC get a decent deal but console gamers get bent over?

It's always like this ...is it the console casual audience are a bunch of whales and these companies know it?

I think it's a matter of MS and Sony knowing PC people would revolt where console people will accept the worst deals

 

[Tobimacoss]

They can make a new Ultimate tier that excludes all the ubisoft etc. stuff and place the price closer to the old price.

What's more likely to happen is AD supported Ultimate and Premium tiers for $5 discount.

Why does PC get a decent deal but console gamers get bent over?

It's always like this ...is it the console casual audience are a bunch of whales and these companies know it?

I think it's a matter of MS and Sony knowing PC people would revolt where console people will accept the worst deals

PC Gamepass is reportedly going away next year. In the Coming Soon to Gamepass info graphics, they stopped mentioning PC Gamepass. Once Premium gets parity on the PC catalog (minus Day 1 games), then they will likely stop new sign-ups to PC Gamepass and currently subscribed users get to keep going as long as they have recurring billing ON. It's what they did for the Gamepass Console tier before Standard was introduced.