OK State Basketball player Marcus Smart shoves fan

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Mik317 said:
Ignore all the evidence that says otherwise. Dude is a known piece of shit.

I really dont get why you are defending him so hard here.
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Becuase accusing someone of being a racist is serious. I mean, it won't land him in jail but it implies a lot about that person's character, his families and friends. There are plenty of real, loud, obnoxious, dangerous racists out there, and throwing that term around like it means nothing, to me is stupid.

Have some proof. Don't just take the words of fucking twitter. Is that really to much to ask?

And second, because everyone accepts he called him a racial slur, it allows people to justify....I mean "understand" what Marcus did. However i'm willing top bet if that guy called him a faggot, and Marcus got so incensed because he couldn't stand being compared to a gay person, this thread wouldn't be so understanding. I don't know if the guy actually called him gay, but i don't know if he called him a nigger either.

And honestly, I believe in non-violence and believe shoving and pushing is wrong. Period. You don't touch people aggressively. Ever. We apply that standard to men who push women. Well go a little further and apply it to men who push men.
 
Full Recovery said:
This is pretty simple to me, you don't get physical no matter what was said. No excuses.

Be the better man.
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In some situations this is easier said than done.

Yes, it doesn't make it right. I think we all can agree that he should have walked away... But this be the better man shot ignores that these are humans and sometimes emotion can make that tough to do.

Also why is it Smart the only one who has to be the better man here?
 
If Smart had confronted the verbal abuse with accusations and started screaming at the idiot for using THE word, then he would be getting a lot more sympathy. Then it's just about the racism and not about the physical contact.

If the first reaction is the athlete pushing an old man, well, that's hard to justify.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
He heard something racist and thought the voice came from the chairs direction so he punted it. Didn't one of the guys involved in the Malice at the Palace start wailing on the wrong guy??
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I think I have heard that. But even that situation involved "physical" instigation by the fans through thrown objects. Here it was all words.

Words we still don't even know.
 
Full Recovery said:
This is pretty simple to me, you don't get physical no matter what was said. No excuses.

Be the better man.
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Very easy to say when you're not the one at the end of what was said. Violence is wrong yes, but I'm of the belief, the violence wouldn't happen, if you don't say racist things.

Very easy to say be the better man and walk away, it's not always so cut and dry.
 
ITT: people who don't know sports and/or just watching the video without knowledge of college sports.

Yes what Orr said was wrong. But its not OK for a college athelete to lay hands on a fan. You don't do that.

Also, it seems many people in here have ever been to live sporting events. What people yell there is insane, vulgar and also.....meant to get to the person. Its called heckling. People do it to get a reaction and that so exactly what Smart did.
 
Madness said:
Very easy to say when you're not the one at the end of what was said. Violence is wrong yes, but I'm of the belief, the violence wouldn't happen, if you don't say racist things.

Very easy to say be the better man and walk away, it's not always so cut and dry.
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And what if the guy didn't say something racial?
 
remnant said:
Becuase accusing someone of being a racist is serious. I mean, it won't land him in jail but it implies a lot about that person's character, his families and friends. There are plenty of real, loud, obnoxious, dangerous racists out there, and throwing that term around like it means nothing, to me is stupid.

Have some proof. Don't just take the words of fucking twitter. Is that really to much to ask?

And second, because everyone accepts he called him a racial slur, it allows people to justify....I mean "understand" what Marcus did. However i'm willing top bet if that guy called him a faggot, and Marcus got so incensed because he couldn't stand being compared to a gay person, this thread wouldn't be so understanding. I don't know if the guy actually called him gay, but i don't know if he called him a nigger either.

And honestly, I believe in non-violence and believe shoving and pushing is wrong. Period. You don't touch people aggressively. Ever. We apply that standard to men who push women. Well go a little further and apply it to men who push men.
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And you don't verbally abuse people either. Ever.

But I'm not seeing you applying the same kind of standards as the kid on the guy more than twice his age.
 
Heckling and Racism are two different things though.

If I'm supposed to expect that behavior when I walk into someones gym, expect that I may react to your behavior in a not so nice way.

Everybody wants to play nice and do whatever they want without reprimand.
 
devilhawk said:
So we are now to take the word of the sore loser who embellishes and simulates more than anyone else in the nation, who had just melted down last week by kicking and breaking a chair and storming off in the middle of the game to go cry under the bleachers, and now has millions of dollars worth of reasons to try and salvage this disaster of a year?

I know it is obvious I do not like Marcus Smart. Forgive me though if I want some corroboration of what was said by someone other than Jeff Orr or Marcus Smart. I don't think that is too much to ask.
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It's never going to happen reliably given the location. No TTU fans are going to sell Orr down the river, not when they have a hotheaded visiting player with a history of theatrics they can bury instead.

Violence obviously is not at all the answer for this type of situation. Smart has to be more disciplined when not in the confines of his home arena, and in order to be that kind of person, he has to seek assistance from his teammates or coaches. Shitheads like Orr are never going to go away or learn from their own mistakes, and if they pick up on a player's volatility, they'll keep on until the player cracks. Trash Talking 101. If he is a gifted player, I hope he finds success, but he has to tune the garbage out.
 
rocketskates said:
ITT: people who don't know sports and/or just watching the video without knowledge of college sports.

Yes what Orr said was wrong. But its not OK for a college athelete to lay hands on a fan. You don't do that.

Also, it seems many people in here have ever been to live sporting events. What people yell there is insane, vulgar and also.....meant to get to the person. Its called heckling. People do it to get a reaction and that so exactly what Smart did.
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Again.. very few people are trying to excuse Smart for what he did. The crux of the argument is that both Orr and Smart should share the blame. We already know that Smart will be punished but there should be a more aggressive policy regarding fans heckling. Low brow, bottom tier insults of racial or other intensely offensive nature should be completely off limits and result in fans being ejected.

The argument that "this happens all the time and players should just deal" is bull and it needs to be changed by venues actively banning the practice. This extends to all sports.
 
Seeds said:
And you don't verbally abuse people either. Ever.

But I'm not seeing you applying the same kind of standards on a kid as a guy more than twice his age.
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Don't call people words. Don't heckle them at basketball games. Act your age.

Everyone in this thread already agree's the fan was acting like a jerk. Do I need to preface everything i post with "but the fan is wrong too?"

jordan0386 said:
What if he did. Its 2014, public displays of racism are not in the playbook anymore.
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Yeah...but what if he didn't?
 
ConradCervantes said:
It's never going to happen reliably given the location. No TTU fans are going to sell Orr down the river, not when they have a hotheaded visiting player with a history of theatrics they can bury instead.

Violence obviously is not at all the answer for this type of situation. Smart has to be more disciplined when not in the confines of his home arena, and in order to be that kind of person, he has to seek assistance from his teammates or coaches. Shitheads like Orr are never going to go away or learn from their own mistakes, and if they pick up on a player's volatility, they'll keep on until the player cracks. Trash Talking 101. If he is a gifted player, I hope he finds success, but he has to tune the garbage out.
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That's well said.
 
remnant said:
Don't call people words. Don't heckle them at basketball games. Act your age.

Everyone in this thread already agree's the fan was acting like a jerk. Do I need to preface everything i post with "but the fan is wrong too?"



Yeah...but what if he didn't?
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But I think he did. So I'm rolling with that and waiting for the press conference.
 
remnant said:
Don't call people words. Don't heckle them at basketball games. Act your age.

Everyone in this thread already agree's the fan was acting like a jerk. Do I need to preface everything i post with "but the fan is wrong too?"
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That would help seeing as the large majority of your posts are about how Smart should have acted.
 
remnant said:
And what if the guy didn't say something racial?
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If all he did was call smart a bitch, then this entire situation is different.

However, just like you are giving him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't say anything racist... I am giving Smart the benefit of the doubt that he did. This is based off of the various facts that the dude is a douchebag. The video, players recognizing him, and other events makes it easy to do so. Of Smart is lying then I become harsher on him.

Racism slurs doesn't make it Ok to push someone... But it is more understandable. It's not right but understandable.

If it comes out that dude only said something on the level of stay free, it's less understandable.
 
Thinking more about this, I'm really glad some physicality happened. Fans have gotten way too comfortable with thinking they can get away with anything because they, "paid their money." No, you paid your money to support your team, not to heckle and demean the other team and its players.

I'd fully support going with sanctions comparable to what happens over in Europe when football club fans get charged with acts comparable to this. Its about time it happened and this situation should be the springboard.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
He could use a lesson in trolling skills from Marshall Henderson

marshall_hendersonauburn.gif%3Fw%3D640%26h%3D360
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How is he trolling? Is he wafting his B.O. at the crowd?
 
Madness said:
Very easy to say be the better man and walk away, it's not always so cut and dry.
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But he doesn't have to walk away. If he wants to call him out for racism, then call him out. But that's the point, yell at him, don't push him. What is he trying to initiate with a push? That he wants to fight this old man?

He doesn't have to take that shit and walk away, but as soon as he initiates physical contact then it's a completely different confrontation.
 
Parch said:
But he doesn't have to walk away. If he wants to call him out for racism, then call him out. But that's the point, yell at him, don't push him. What is he trying to initiate with a push? That he wants to fight this old man?

He doesn't have to take that shit and walk away, but as soon as he initiates physical contact then it's a completely different confrontation.
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What is he trying to initiate with a push?

The push wasn't a rational reaction to a situation in which he was able to think about a larger goal. It was a reaction caused by someone verbally abusing him in a situation in which he was mentally drained.
 
Smart didn't lose his cool when that guy heckled him, he lost it when that turnover happened a couple of seconds earlier.
 
So much discussion over whether he should shove or not. How about getting some priorities straight. Why the fuck do fans get to be so fucking vile huh?
 
Devolution said:
So much discussion over whether he should shove or not. How about getting some priorities straight. Why the fuck do fans get to be so fucking vile huh?
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They shouldn't get to.

He's the one with a future and the talent though. Who gives a shit what some dumb hick in the stands does. That's why it's focused on him.
 
Devolution said:
So much discussion over whether he should shove or not. How about getting some priorities straight. Why the fuck do fans get to be so fucking vile huh?
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Guarantee that if there was a thread/story where some guy beat up a WBC guy that was heckling some event, nearly everyone in the thread would be rejoicing in the violence.
 
How are people putting heckling and racial slurs in the same box? The two are not one and the same. That guy should be banned for life at that arena. How emberassing if they continue to let him and others say whatever they want because they payed for a seat.

Smart should receive a 1 game suspension.
 
Devolution said:
So much discussion over whether he should shove or not. How about getting some priorities straight. Why the fuck do fans get to be so fucking vile huh?
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Because they paid to be there. That means they can say anything to the soulless players. That afrocentric, black athena worshipper should have stayed in his place.


Right?
 
SteveWinwood said:
They shouldn't get to.
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But they are. That's what the personal, regional, news and national discussion should be. We consistently focus on what the target of a certain kind of abuse should have done better. It's gross. It's time to cut the shit. That fan and fans like him should be discouraged and kicked the fuck out upon their first violation. That should be the ideal. I get that it's a bit more complicated because of money and politics but at the end of the day, this kind of incident happens because fans can hurl all kinds of insults with impunity and that's what has to stop, not a single player getting feels and losing self-control over a persistent problem.

He's the one with a future and the talent though. Who gives a shit what some dumb hick in the stands does. That's why it's focused on him.
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The fuck kind of shit. Who cares that they're fostering a hostile climate? I care. Plenty of us care. That's what makes incidents like this happen dude.
 
Devolution said:
But they are. That's what the personal, regional, news and national discussion should be. We consistently focus on what the target of a certain kind of abuse should have done better. It's gross. It's time to cut the shit. That fan and fans like him should be discouraged and kicked the fuck out upon their first violation. That should be the ideal. I get that it's a bit more complicated because of money and politics but at the end of the day, this kind of incident happens because fans can hurl all kinds of insults with impunity and that's what has to stop, not a single player getting feels and losing self-control over a persistent problem.



The fuck kind of shit. Who cares that they're fostering a hostile climate? I care. Plenty of us care. That's what makes incidents like this happen dude.
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At the end of the day he shouldn't pushed anyone. We all agree on that. We all know WHY he did it. It doesn't matter what the fan said, it insulted the player and he retaliated in a way that he shouldn't have. As far as I'm concerned that's the end of the this conversation regarding the player. He did something, while understandable, was wrong, and yes worse than simply calling names.

You want to talk about the fans? Awesome. I'm totally fine with kicking half the idiots in the stands out. I've said it plenty of times. It's a problem that can be fixed. Will it be? Who knows.

At the end of the day Marcus Smart should have kept his cool. He's the one who needs to be the bigger man. Yes it sucks that's on the shoulders of a teenager and it's a lot of responsibility but in the end he has more potential and a better future than some old hateful man who goes to college basketball games.
 
remnant said:
And honestly, I believe in non-violence and believe shoving and pushing is wrong. Period. You don't touch people aggressively. Ever. We apply that standard to men who push women. Well go a little further and apply it to men who push men.
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This is the kind of thinking that says ignoring bullies is the best way to deal with them. When in fact standing up to them sometimes physically is the only way to stop them.
 
SteveWinwood said:
At the end of the day he shouldn't pushed anyone. We all agree on that. We all know WHY he did it. It doesn't matter what the fan said, it insulted the player and he retaliated in a way that he shouldn't have. As far as I'm concerned that's the end of the this conversation regarding the player. He did something, while understandable, was wrong, and yes worse than simply calling names.

You want to talk about the fans? Awesome. I'm totally fine with kicking half the idiots in the stands out. I've said it plenty of times. It's a problem that can be fixed. Will it be? Who knows.

At the end of the day Marcus Smart should have kept his cool. He's the one who needs to be the bigger man. Yes it sucks that's on the shoulders of a teenager and it's a lot of responsibility but in the end he has more potential and a better future than some old hateful man who goes to college basketball games.
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I don't think he should have to keep his cool. I think it's pretty easy to chastise the guy when you're not in his shoes. The fact that we expect anyone to be an angel in that atmosphere is us being high horse schmucks. I can't help but be honest about this.

We expect the players to endure a consistent barrage of insults including the most vile bigotry, and then sit there, detached from the problem, able to say "he should have taken being told 'to go back to africa' better than that." Nah. That's just complete arrogance and misplacement of the blame. I know I'd crack under that pressure. I don't expect anyone to undergo that treatment and be a complete pacifist. That's just cruel on our behalf.

You should act better in the face of bigotry.

Great priorities as usual.
 
Smart should receive a light punishment...but a fucking fan yelling racist shit at unpaid college athletes? If true, I think he should be banned from games for life.
 
Devolution said:
I don't think he should have to keep his cool. I think it's pretty easy to chastise the guy when you're not in his shoes. The fact that we expect anyone to be an angel in that atmosphere is us being high horse schmucks. I can't help but be honest about this.

We expect the players to endure a consistent barrage of insults including the most vile bigotry, and then sit there, detached from the problem, able to say "he should have taken being told 'to go back to africa' better than that." Nah. That's just complete arrogance and misplacement of the blame. I know I'd crack under that pressure. I don't expect anyone to undergo that treatment and be a complete pacifist. That's just cruel on our behalf.

You should act better in the face of bigotry.

Great priorities as usual.
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Devolution said:
So much discussion over whether he should shove or not. How about getting some priorities straight. Why the fuck do fans get to be so fucking vile huh?
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I realize you may be new to the thread but there is no proof that he said anything racist at all.

The "go back to Africa" quote was entirely fabricated from a KC news station as detailed here http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610 We don't know what was said. It could have been anything. Smart could have misheard. We just don't know.
 
Devolution said:
I don't think he should have to keep his cool. I think it's pretty easy to chastise the guy when you're not in his shoes. The fact that we expect anyone to be an angel in that atmosphere is us being high horse schmucks. I can't help but be honest about this.
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Well okay.

I'm sure plenty of other players have been called terrible things. How many fights are breaking out all the time? I don't watch tons of college basketball games, but the fact that this thread exists tells me it's not that common.

We expect the players to endure a consistent barrage of insults including the most vile bigotry, and then sit there, detached from the problem, able to say "he should have taken being told 'to go back to africa' better than that." Nah. That's just complete arrogance and misplacement of the blame. I know I'd crack under that pressure. I don't expect anyone to undergo that treatment and be a complete pacifist. That's just cruel on our behalf.

You should act better in the face of bigotry.

Great priorities as usual.
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Nobody wants this to be the way it is (except some crazy stupid fans probably). We should work to change it. You don't change it by stooping to their level, and shoving a fan everytime it happens.

Keep in mind, we still don't know what he said, and I believe it doesn't matter at all. He could have said anything from 'your mother is extremely large' to the example with the crack pipe on the last page. It doesn't warrant that level of response ever.

soundscream said:
Violence should always be a last resort, but this extreme pacifism movement is unrealistic.
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Which is why we're saying it's wrong that someone didn't use it as a last resort, but instead right away?
 
devilhawk said:
I realize you may be new to the thread but there is no proof that he said anything racist at all.

The "go back to Africa" quote was entirely fabricated from a KC news station as detailed here http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610 We don't know what was said. It could have been anything. Smart could have misheard. We just don't know.
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Okay instead it's "you stupid bastard." Still real cool that we expect players to be saints instead of making the environment less hostile. Way to miss the point.
 
devilhawk said:
I think there is a huge difference between those two. That, is the point.
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No you're just nitpicking the actual point here. The athletes are barraged with insults. Even if this dude wasn't racist it's not like racism has disappeared from the spectrum of shit they have to put up with.
 
Devolution said:
No you're just nitpicking the actual point here. The athletes are barraged with insults. Even if this dude wasn't racist it's not like racism has disappeared from the spectrum of shit they have to put up with.
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I never said athletes should deal with racism. No one here is arguing that racism has disappeared anyways.
 
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