Support NeoGAF

[beat]

Then no one would be in any kind of a relationship ever. Platonic or otherwise. Every single relationship you have with another person has some kind of give and take.

I'm not Nert, but I think the key point he meant there was needing validation, and I think he meant needing it in an unhealthy way. We all need human connections, but we shouldn't need the validation of others to feel like whole individuals. And esp we shouldn't get into the mindset that most people who use the term "friend zone" unironically do: the idea that something is wrong with us if The One doesn't feel romantically inclined.


(That said I do post a lot of jokes on Twitter and to a lesser extent FB and derive an unhealthy amount of self-esteem from the feedback I get there... I could probably do better at practicing what I preach.)

 

[stn]

@Aegus

NO. Dude, no. Don't tell her how you "feel", just show it. Ask her out on a date, its much easier to do and she'll understand what's up. Its better to perform that action then suddenly blurt out some feelings. When you tell a woman how you feel you put her in a position where she needs to not only understand your emotions but also explain her own. Better to just ask her out casually. You'll get the same answer as you would blurting your feelings, just with much less awkwardness.

@grapefruitman

I'm assuming the girl stopped replying, yeah? Did you text her frequently after she stopped replying? Be honest. Either way, just let it go. Its okay, we all get rejected. Main thing to do is not sulk back into depression but to get back out there and try again. Be more aggressive with online dating, go outside if you can. Just don't revert back to negative emotions. Easier said than done, I know, but its the only way to survive.

 

[Aegus]

@Aegus

NO. Dude, no. Don't tell her how you "feel", just show it. Ask her out on a date, its much easier to do and she'll understand what's up. Its better to perform that action then suddenly blurt out some feelings. When you tell a woman how you feel you put her in a position where she needs to not only understand your emotions but also explain her own. Better to just ask her out casually. You'll get the same answer as you would blurting your feelings, just with much less awkwardness.

The two of us go to the cinema by ourselves quite regularly. Do you think she'd get the message if I just said do you want to grab some food?

 

[Oxn]

In addition to issues with the term that Tsukumo outlined (and the sexist ways in which it is frequently used), using the term "friend-zone" to describe something that happened to you can imply that you're a needy pursuer that is living a life of scarcity. The basic narrative behind the term is that a guy is overly investing his mental energy on a single person, deluding himself into thinking that the relationship is deeper and/or more romantically oriented than it actually is, and then feeling crushed and defeated when she rejects* him. It just reeks of someone being weak and sulky. Why wouldn't you want to choose to be powerful and content instead?

When you are confident, happy and living a carefree life, you don't need validation from anyone else. No one can put you in a "zone" when you don't base all of your social interactions around trying to get something out of somebody else. If someone isn't interested in having sex with you and you still like spending time with them, great! If someone isn't interested in having sex with you and you no longer want to spend time with them, that works too! Live an abundant lifestyle by recognizing that you have endless opportunities to meet new people and learn to enjoy the people that are currently in your life for who they are (instead of freaking out about who they aren't).

And, sure, the term "friend-zone" is something that exists in culture, but using it and believing in it is both silly and potentially harmful to your own self-development.

*Note: With the right mindset, there are no "rejections" and "failures," by the way. Train yourself to see them for what they really are: learning opportunities.

This is very good

 

[Idde]

In addition to issues with the term that Tsukumo outlined (and the sexist ways in which it is frequently used), using the term "friend-zone" to describe something that happened to you can imply that you're a needy pursuer that is living a life of scarcity. The basic narrative behind the term is that a guy is overly investing his mental energy on a single person, deluding himself into thinking that the relationship is deeper and/or more romantically oriented than it actually is, and then feeling crushed and defeated when she rejects* him. It just reeks of someone being weak and sulky. Why wouldn't you want to choose to be powerful and content instead?

When you are confident, happy and living a carefree life, you don't need validation from anyone else. No one can put you in a "zone" when you don't base all of your social interactions around trying to get something out of somebody else. If someone isn't interested in having sex with you and you still like spending time with them, great! If someone isn't interested in having sex with you and you no longer want to spend time with them, that works too! Live an abundant lifestyle by recognizing that you have endless opportunities to meet new people and learn to enjoy the people that are currently in your life for who they are (instead of freaking out about who they aren't).

And, sure, the term "friend-zone" is something that exists in culture, but using it and believing in it is both silly and potentially harmful to your own self-development.

*Note: With the right mindset, there are no "rejections" and "failures," by the way. Train yourself to see them for what they really are: learning opportunities.

Agree 100%.

Then no one would be in any kind of a relationship ever. Platonic or otherwise. Every single relationship you have with another person has some kind of give and take.

Yep, that's absolutely true. But the part he said about knowing what you want out of whom is important. Of course you need friends and family for social support. But you shouldn't rely on others for a positive self image. Internal drive is better, if you know your strengths and weaknesses you're not constantly looking for validation. Self esteem is waaaay more persistent and positive if it's internal.

Nert, do you honestly believe everything you just wrote there? It reads like someone that's been hurt so bad that he's trying to brush-off the entirety of society. I'm being completely serious.

To me it sounds like someone who sees a lot of good in life. And if some stuff doesn't work out the way he wants, he knows he's able to find it elsewhere. A more positive outlook on life then negative.

You also seem to think that people being upset at being in the "friend zone" are obsessed entirely with sex. That's not the case at all. Sex is found easier than the kind of relationship being sought after when someone gets stuck in the "friend zone."

There's a kind of intimacy between two people in a relationship that can't be found elsewhere. That's what's being sought after, not purely friendship or sex. I don't know if there's even a word to describe what I'm talking about. Which is likely why you've missed it and only see one of the ways in which that kind of intimacy manifests itself: sex.

I think the love of a relationship is the feeling/word you're looking for And that has to start somewhere. For me that's a spark, a connection, a synchronicity (that's probably not a word) with certain aspects of a womans personality AND physical attraction that I just don't have with a lot of people.

And Nert is also right in that a lot of people who end up in the friend zone are more or less deluded in that aspect. A LOT of the times it's: "hey, I can talk to her, and she's hot, so I want something more from her." Without having that actual exceptional spark, or connection that has to be at the start of a relationship (for me anyway).

And a lot of times people aren't honest with themselves. If there's no connection, just move on. The craving for a relationship (which a LOT of people have) can make one really blind.

Moving on... It's 2:30 in the morning and I wish I could drink with you guys and we could all empty our feelings together. I really just need to cry and let things out. Maybe get some perspective.


I feel like my post is going to be misconstrued just because I switch between a sarcastic character and a genuinely horribly, horribly depressed individual in this thread so much it's hard to tell between the two. And right now I'm not either.

You can send me a PM whenever you want. Though rather not as the sarcastic character

And just my freaking luck: The spark I talked about, well I found it. And for once she isn't taken! Nor is she the sister of my best friend's girlfriend, which causes hang ups. Nor is she bisexual, but just slightly more lesbian. She just has another three months to go studying in Dublin. We talked again for three hours yesterday, and we really hit it off. And after a total of ten hours of talking I looked her up on facebook (hope that's outside of creeper territory). She only has one picture up on the site, but she's actually really cute.

Now I'm not gonna sit around waiting for her. And it doesn't really matter since my life is completely booked as it is, so I don't really have time for a relationship anyway. But I wouldn't mind sacrificing some of that stuff for someone REALLY nice. And I don't meet single people who I connect with that often.

 

[stn]

The two of us go to the cinema by ourselves quite regularly. Do you think she'd get the message if I just said do you want to grab some food?

If you guys hangout together a lot then she probably won't distinguish between cinema and food. Ask her out for dinner. If you sense she thinks its just another hangout then make it clear that your intention is for it to be a date.

 

[grap3fruitman]

@grapefruitman

I'm assuming the girl stopped replying, yeah? Did you text her frequently after she stopped replying? Be honest. Either way, just let it go. Its okay, we all get rejected. Main thing to do is not sulk back into depression but to get back out there and try again. Be more aggressive with online dating, go outside if you can. Just don't revert back to negative emotions. Easier said than done, I know, but its the only way to survive.

We went out Thursday, made plans for Tuesday during the date. We sent a few messages back and forth on Friday. She was prepping for a girls night out with her friends and I was sick from running around without a hat on and was hitting the hay early as a result.

Saturday morning, I sent a message asking how her girls night went. No response. Thought maybe I had sent it a little early for a Saturday and maybe she opened it while half-asleep and forgot about it? Still optimistic, Saturday night I sent a "Heya... How's everything?" No response.

That's been it. I want to send something either today or tomorrow asking about our plans for Tuesday. Why would she have made future plans if she wasn't interested? I'm bummed.

 

[Nilaul]

The two of us go to the cinema by ourselves quite regularly. Do you think she'd get the message if I just said do you want to grab some food?

Nope

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

We went out Thursday, made plans for Tuesday during the date. We sent a few messages back and forth on Friday. She was prepping for a girls night out with her friends and I was sick from running around without a hat on and was hitting the hay early as a result.

Saturday morning, I sent a message asking how her girls night went. No response. Thought maybe I had sent it a little early for a Saturday and maybe she opened it while half-asleep and forgot about it? Still optimistic, Saturday night I sent a "Heya... How's everything?" No response.

That's been it. I want to send something either today or tomorrow asking about our plans for Tuesday. Why would she have made future plans if she wasn't interested? I'm bummed.

It happens all the time. While you were together, she was probably keeping her options open, didn't wan't to hurt your feelings, or she hadn't made up her mind about you yet. After she had time to think, she was able to sort out if she was interested or not. Spending time with her girlfriends may have also influenced that decision.

That said, it is also possible that she just hasn't had a chance to get back to you. Text her one more time asking if she still wants to get together tomorrow, then leave it at that. You'll have your answer either way.

As others have said, this happens to everyone Just chalk it up to experience and move on looking for someone else. Clearly this girl saw something in you that at least caught her attention enough to go out with you. That's a good sign that others will to. Use this experience and learn from it. You'll be better prepared for your next first date.

 

[Minamu]

Grap3: Because it would be awkward to turn you down right in the middle of the first date. Same thing with that old "why would she give me her number if she isn't interested" thread. It's easier sometimes to give a number, real or fake, to make someone go away, than to feel awkward and turn someone down (especially if that person is creepy and the girl doesn't know if the guy can handle it or not). Nobody likes awkward and uncomfortable situations, and this can be a typical way for women to deal with that. In your case, the girl might just as well have lost her phone while drunk though or something else entirely, it's impossible to know for sure, really. It's usually safe to assume though that no answer means no. Creepy over pursuing men have created this female behavior so please don't take it as another reason to hate women or anything. Whatever annoying dating related behavior we see so often, it's usually created because some previous guy made the woman uncomfortable.

 

[stn]

The last girl I had a date with mentioned she wanted to meet a second time. Didn't hear from her ever again. Why did she say it? Got caught in the moment, didn't want me to feel bad, didn't want the possibility of confrontation, lost interest later, etc...

Why she did it isn't important, the result is still the same no matter her reason. Anyway, I wouldn't even bother messaging this girl anymore. She knows you've messaged her, you've done enough. Just sit back, relax, and try to learn from the experience. In fact, you should try to reflect on your behavior during the date as objectively as you can.

You know yourself that you come from a place of depression. You should ask yourself if some of that may have come out subconsciously or by mistake during the date. Know what I mean? Sometimes its the little things that go unnoticed that the girl notices.

Remember that you've only just begun dating. Rarely do people make it work the very first time. Lots of failure and trial-and-error. Very important: keep your head up and move on to the next one.

 

[Link1110]

So, I had some problems and my mother in law helped me out. My gf was over and some bitch called and said bad things about my mother in law (not educated etc.) I just said "yeah yeah yeah" to get rid of her. My gf got mad that I didn't ream bitch out.

I called back and my gf said I'm just doing it because she's mad. I realized that that wasn't true and called back and reamed her out anyway. I feel so dumb for not standing up in the first phone call.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I am currently watching that Brent Smith video, and most of it sounds like "magic".

Can anyone here attest that "just be an awesome person" works?

I cannot imagine just sitting around somewhere, girls will start to hit me, just because I am so shiny...

 

[Revoh]

Hey GAF, so I have this female friend that I know for a few months, we went out as friends with another couple several times throughout this time. We decided to spent Valentines day together on my place, we drink beer and had pizza, good stuff. Later on we decided to go to my bedroom to watch a movie, you can imagine what we did after... It was amazing btw - note: I haven't been with a woman for a while now.

Next day we went out again and then on the way home we made out, which lead to sex again, but she said that she has a dude that asked her to be his girlfriend... She said the dude asked her to give him an answer in a week. When I asked why she accepted to be with me she didn't say anything...

Anyways, yesterday and today she seemed pretty distant.. Barely answered my texts, it feels like she found out she made a mistake or something.

What should I do know? Should I act cool? Am I being too needy if I keep texting her first all the time?

 

[Nert]

I'm not Nert, but I think the key point he meant there was needing validation, and I think he meant needing it in an unhealthy way. We all need human connections, but we shouldn't need the validation of others to feel like whole individuals. And esp we shouldn't get into the mindset that most people who use the term "friend zone" unironically do: the idea that something is wrong with us if The One doesn't feel romantically inclined.

You pretty much nailed it!

As you mentioned, building connections with people (and not being afraid to seek out new connections with new people) is one of the most fulfilling things that you can do in life, provided that you approach it with the right mindset. If someone approaches either a potential platonic relationship or a potential romantic relationship from the mindset of "My life sucks because I don't currently have X, and this person is the one person in my life that can possibly give me X, and boy will I be pissed off if they don't give me X," that relationship is almost guaranteed to suffer from imbalanced power dynamics, fatigue and annoyance from the person being pursued, and so on.

It's entirely possible to approach relationships (of any type) in a different way: "I already have a great life, a wide variety of interesting hobbies, my health and the boundless opportunities that life has to offer. I'm already content and fulfilled simply by being alive and being who I am. When I'm around other people, they recognize this about me, and I enrich their lives by being a giving and inspiring presence whenever I'm around them."

If what I'm saying sounds confusing or odd to anyone, ask yourself something: what type of person would *you* rather be around? Do you want to hang out with the needy person that is trying to get something out of you, or do you want to get to the know fun, inspiring person that has a great time wherever he or she goes?

Then no one would be in any kind of a relationship ever. Platonic or otherwise. Every single relationship you have with another person has some kind of give and take.

Nert, do you honestly believe everything you just wrote there? It reads like someone that's been hurt so bad that he's trying to brush-off the entirety of society. I'm being completely serious.

You also seem to think that people being upset at being in the "friend zone" are obsessed entirely with sex. That's not the case at all. Sex is found easier than the kind of relationship being sought after when someone gets stuck in the "friend zone."

There's a kind of intimacy between two people in a relationship that can't be found elsewhere. That's what's being sought after, not purely friendship or sex. I don't know if there's even a word to describe what I'm talking about. Which is likely why you've missed it and only see one of the ways in which that kind of intimacy manifests itself: sex.

Before responding to the rest of your post, I'll clarify something: I was using "sex" as a quick way to refer to "physical intimacy." I think it's worth mentioning that many of the other things that people will attribute to romantic relationships, including shared passions, a deep, mutual sense of understanding and so on can also exist with friends and family members. There's nothing wrong with people seeking these things out with a romantic partner, of course; it clearly works out well for plenty of people. I just wanted to make that little distinction, as I think it can be valuable to recognize that there are many ways to get what you want out life without having it all center around a hypothetical "The One."

When you state "every single relationship you have with another person has some kind of give and take" in a declarative sense, I would like to point out that it doesn't have to be the case at all. Outside of obvious things like "I work for my employer, so I expect my employer to pay me," I don't really have any relationships where I need to "take" anything from anyone.

I have an active social life with a lot of friends, yet I don't need them to do anything for me on any given day. If every single one of them happens to be busy on a Friday night and no one is available to hang out with me, no problem! I can have fun going out for the night on my own, too. Hell, I could have a great time just relaxing and watching something on Netflix. As I mentioned in my last post here, it's healthy to enjoy people for who they are instead of being frustrated with them for not being someone else.

And yeah, I absolutely believe what I'm writing. I'm fairly confident that I'm the leading authority on myself, and things are going well

If you think that I'm being disingenuous, you can always send me a PM and I can explain my situation in greater detail, but there are more relevant things to talk about in this thread.

I am currently watching that Brent Smith video, and most of it sounds like "magic".

Can anyone here attest that "just be an awesome person" works?

I cannot imagine just sitting around somewhere, girls will start to hit me, just because I am so shiny...

Just being an awesome person certainly works! People can pick on your vibe, and having a positive, giving and confident vibe does wonders. Brent would also tell you that, when you begin a thought with "I cannot imagine," you're already operating under a limiting belief. If you don't believe that something is possible, you will subconsciously gather evidence for that belief and then that will be your reality. Someone who can't even imagine the opposite sex being interested in them is less likely to be interesting to the opposite sex.

The main idea behind his videos isn't to just sit around on a bar stool and wait for everyone to mob you, however; you need to have the right mindset and become more comfortable interacting with people in any context before that kind of thing happens to you frequently. I recommend watching this video for more information on how to build up that mindset.

 

[stn]

I am currently watching that Brent Smith video, and most of it sounds like "magic".

Can anyone here attest that "just be an awesome person" works?

I cannot imagine just sitting around somewhere, girls will start to hit me, just because I am so shiny...

I'm a full supporter of the general idea behind Brent's videos. It definitely works. The idea is to approach situations merely as a person who wants to have fun and make fun for others. Rather than approaching women with ulterior motives, you attract them through your demeanor and charisma.

He basically states that you want to separate yourself from the rest of males since males generally pursue (this is true). The idea is to be fun, flirty, and just laid back. Does it work? In my experience, yes. I can't remember the last time I pursued a girl in real-life, I've always been pursued. The only time I really pursue is through online dating, but even then I rarely message other girls (I use OKC everyday and according to it I sent a message one month ago).

Will it work for you? Sure. Next time you're at a party or social event, be as fun and interesting as you can be. People are just reluctant to try it because it doesn't sound rational to them. In my opinion, its the better way to do things.

 

[Minamu]

StifflersMum: In the traditional sense, I owe my entire social life to him and his views. I'm not lying when I've said that his videos have transformed my life completely several times over.

Nert: Nice to see another fellow Smithian in here This thread has been super depressing for a few weeks now imho

 

[Jhoan]

One last update on 3DS girl: I hit her up last night; had a back and forth going until she went cold after I replied to her several hours ago. I deleted her number several minutes ago seeing as It wasn't going anywhere so I was prepared to move on.

No loss on my part seeing as I can focus my energy on other girls. I've still got my eye on the British girl who' s now in an additional art class that I'm in as well as a few others. One door closes, another one opens.

 

[PflargBlarg]

Hey GAF, so I have this female friend that I know for a few months, we went out as friends with another couple several times throughout this time. We decided to spent Valentines day together on my place, we drink beer and had pizza, good stuff. Later on we decided to go to my bedroom to watch a movie, you can imagine what we did after... It was amazing btw - note: I haven't been with a woman for a while now.

Next day we went out again and then on the way home we made out, which lead to sex again, but she said that she has a dude that asked her to be his girlfriend... She said the dude asked her to give him an answer in a week. When I asked why she accepted to be with me she didn't say anything...

Anyways, yesterday and today she seemed pretty distant.. Barely answered my texts, it feels like she found out she made a mistake or something.

What should I do know? Should I act cool? Am I being too needy if I keep texting her first all the time?

Gotta say, that's extremely strange. My first instinct when reading this is that she was just lonely on a Valentine's Day and wanted to have sex with somebody friendly and safe. But this other guy situation? Man, I didn't even know that people still straight up asked somebody to be their girlfriend. And then putting a time limit on it.

Any how, give her space and be cool until she gets back to you. She clearly needs to figure some things out.

 

[stn]

@Revoh

Do nothing. No texting, no nothing. Why? If she's banging you but suddenly mentioning another guy, she's basically wanting your attention. She's playing games with you. She's also making it known that you're not her #1 priority since there's another guy lingering. IMO, people who make statements such as these--whether they be guys or girls--are just attention-whoring. I don't think you want to pursue anything with someone who's doing this to you, just my advice.

She has an autonomous mind and can make a decision for herself, there's no need to throw you into the mix. Here's what you do: nothing. The next time she sends you a message, tell her to stop messaging you until she figures herself out. It might be stern but she will at least get the message that you're not a person to be toyed with. If you show her that you're needy and willing to give her attention, she'll just keep bringing other guys into the fold.

 

[Revoh]

Any how, give her space and be cool until she gets back to you. She clearly needs to figure some things out.

Will do.

@Revoh

Do nothing. No texting, no nothing. Why? If she's banging you but suddenly mentioning another guy, she's basically wanting your attention. She's playing games with you. She's also making it known that you're not her #1 priority since there's another guy lingering. IMO, people who make statements such as these--whether they be guys or girls--are just attention-whoring. I don't think you want to pursue anything with someone who's doing this to you, just my advice.

She has an autonomous mind and can make a decision for herself, there's no need to throw you into the mix. Here's what you do: nothing. The next time she sends you a message, tell her to stop messaging you until she figures herself out. It might be stern but she will at least get the message that you're not a person to be toyed with. If you show her that you're needy and willing to give her attention, she'll just keep bringing other guys into the fold.

Thanks for your advice, you're right, It will be hard but I'll do it. Also, I probably shouldn't pursue this, if she's fucking me while having a boyfriend (or boyfriend-to-be) then how can I be sure she won't fuck me over if we become a couple later on? :/

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Well, I've been in a relationship with my GF for almost 5 years. Sure, we've been happy for the most part/most of that time but I don't feel the same/I'm not as in love with her as I used to be. I've considered ending our relationship but she's talked me out of it and has convinced me that we should still be together (I also couldn't tell her that I'm not as happy as I used to be).

Anyway, over the past few months, I've become pretty close with this female co-worker of mine. We started with the usual chatting, then started having lunch together, and eventually becoming pretty close.

Two weeks ago, I ended up telling her that I really liked her. Obviously more than I should since I had a girlfriend, and she had a boyfriend as well. We agreed that nothing good will come of it and decided to not talk about it again.

Last week however, she suddenly talks about what I told her and told me that she feels the same way. We talked about what we should do about how we felt for each other, and came to the conclusion that we should just stop talking about it since both of us were in a relationship; and both of us weren't willing to end our current relationship to be with each other.

A few nights ago, she sends me a text out of nowhere that says "This is the last time I'll say this but I really like you, and I know it's wrong". I Replied that I feel the same way. She ends the conversation by saying that she thinks that by minimizing our interaction with each other, our feelings for each other would eventually disappear.

The following morning, it's like she became a different person. She started tweeting pictures of her and her boyfriend, and posting stuff about how happy she is with him. I don't know what's gotten into her. I don't know if she felt guilty.

I didn't expect it but I felt a little jealous, especially after what she told me the night before. I also questioned my current relationship more and wondered if I should still be in it.

So yeah, it's been a weird past few weeks for me dating/relationship-wise.

 

[PBY]

Well, I've been in a relationship with my GF for almost 5 years. Sure, we've been happy for the most part/most of that time but I don't feel the same/I'm not as in love with her as I used to be. I've considered ending our relationship but she's talked me out of it and has convinced me that we should still be together (I also couldn't tell her that I'm not as happy as I used to be).

Anyway, over the past few months, I've become pretty close with this female co-worker of mine. We started with the usual chatting, then started having lunch together, and eventually becoming pretty close.

Two weeks ago, I ended up telling her that I really liked her. Obviously more than I should since I had a girlfriend, and she had a boyfriend as well. We agreed that nothing good will come of it and decided to not talk about it again.

Last week however, she suddenly talks about what I told her and told me that she feels the same way. We talked about what we should do about how we felt for each other, and came to the conclusion that we should just stop talking about it since both of us were in a relationship; and both of us weren't willing to end our current relationship to be with each other.

A few nights ago, she sends me a text out of nowhere that says "This is the last time I'll say this but I really like you, and I know it's wrong". I Replied that I feel the same way. She ends the conversation by saying that she thinks that by minimizing our interaction with each other, our feelings for each other would eventually disappear.

The following morning, it's like she became a different person. She started tweeting pictures of her and her boyfriend, and posting stuff about how happy she is with him. I don't know what's gotten into her. I don't know if she felt guilty.

I didn't expect it but I felt a little jealous, especially after what she told me the night before. I also questioned my current relationship more and wondered if I should still be in it.

So yeah, it's been a weird past few weeks for me dating/relationship-wise.

You need to take a step back and clear your head. Think long and hard about your relationship, where it's going, etc. it could be a case of the grass is alway greener, or their May be more serious issues. But you're not gonna figure it out messing w that other girl, who clearly is bad news.

 

[Septimius]

1) Implies a friendship with a girl is basically meaningless, of no value at all.

No, It implies that one person wants more than the other. Friend-zone isn't just a thing that happens to guys.

People will tackle this in a logical way, saying that to them friendship with a girl isn't meaningless, the fact is words are about communication and in communication one cannot control the outcome of the interaction, because what a guy considers friendship and what I consider friendship and what some other girl considers friendship are three different things, shaped by our experiences and by the way we process them. So unless someone's using "friendzone" strictly on the internet, the very fact of using this awful term will blow away chances with possible girlfriends and will also change the way girls in a guy's life perceive him.

I just have to stress that the term 'friendzone' is meaningless if both the people involved are 'in the friendzone', as that's called 'being friends'. This is the strict implication that one person wants more than the other, and as such, it is painful to just be friends, and it is also mean of anyone to keep someone they should be able to pick up wished they could have more, and keep them around for comfort. If a person is frustrated with only being your friend, that's their shortcoming, since it infers that they're not doing anything about it. But that doesn't mean that you should allow that frustration to happen.

So this has nothing to do with the way it is to be friends with a girl, and more how it is to be friends with someone you wished you had more with.

2) Implies a guy was never after anything remotely tied to her personality.

Not at all. They might be so awesome that you want to be more than friends. How having feelings beyond friendship is considered platonic is completely lost on me, as it is the quiet opposite of something platonic.

People will rationalize this in every way they see fit to look like they weren't interested about the looks of a girl, but again: if the girl one likes so much is so cool, and so friendly, and so smart, which are appealing qualities no matter what, why didn't he keep her around after she rejected him? Her coolness, friendliness or her smarts shouldn't magically grow or wither because she does or doesn't want to have sex with him.

Why is this so much about sex? The guy might wish to share his life with her.

Thinking that somehow a girl who wants a guy as friend (either because she really wants to or because it's the least harmful way of get him out of her air) does so because she doesn't care about him at all, or doesn't find him interesting at all, is a mind-set that will keep a guy shooting himself in the foot. Between what people say and what they really want, there's a very big, wide gap.

I think it's sad that some guys get dictated and keep banging their heads against the wall by not distancing themselves from girl that aren't interested, but equally much so, it is not OK for a girl to reject a guy, then keep him around as a friend. In most cases, the one person will just pretend that the other person's feelings aren't there, while the other will be happy that they get to spend time with them, but sad they can't be with them. Dragging them through that is selfish.

Once at that point, a guy thinks all the hard-work is done and it's time to fart and burp all the time like it's something to take pride into, to talk about the way you fuck her to all your friends so the next time they see her they greet her with a smirk which leaves her puzzled, to have her listen to each and every single one of your theories about the world, people, women (because you know EVERYTHING), and to blatantly ogle other girls in front of her because, hey, the Man is a hunter.

..Are you OK? This sounds like it's coming from experience.

As I've said before: a girlfriend can change her opinion of you overtime and leave you, in the same fashion a friend can change her opinion of you overtime and decide to be your girlfriend.

Yes, but if you reject a guy, then keep him around until you find it right to be with him, you're selfish, and he's been hurt a long the way.

4) It's a self-defeating argument.
A guy automatically associates being friends with a girl as being some sort second-rate citizen: "I can't give you sex, but hey I'll smile at you and say hi if you really can't be away from me AT ALL".

If you find a guy so amazing you wish to be his girlfriend, wouldn't it kill you that he doesn't feel the same? How is this about the girl, in this situation? It's not cool to not be able to get the person you want.

What if a girl really would like you as a friend? why would someone outright think that's a definitive sentence of one's own value?

Again, it's painful. Why does a girl in this situation think it's OK to keep a guy that obviously has feelings for her around as a friend? That's selfish. Hopefully the guy will distance himself to move on.

(it's funny to see how many people who post stuff about some horrible war tragedy ALSO play games like Call of Duty in absolute denial of what is the instinct they are feeding into).

Uh, what?

Using terms like "female", "friend-zone", "a 10", "chick", "slut", has the only counterproductive result of make someone look like a macho who elaborated a form of slang to (be)rate girls and especially the girls who refuse him, as the only stratagem to keep his dignity intact.

Actually, coining someone as "a 10" is only counter-productive for the guy, since it's essentially saying "she's so out of my league". You're also seemingly denying that we do perceive each other for, also, how we look. There's nothing wrong with that. That some guys go into a defense-mode when they're turned down and say things like "she's probably a slut, anyway", is sad, but it's just sad for that person, that's unable to take criticism. But live and let live, since we are able to take criticism, and as such, aren't doomed to make the same mistakes over and over.

[/QUOTE]People who underestimate the value of politically correct and see it as a cage instead of a social lubricant (like a fine wine or a cold beer), will keep trapping their emotions inside themselves unable to deal with their rage, their horniness and their ambition, while idolizing the (fictional) men who let it all out and crush everything and everyone in their way, Eisenberg-style.[/QUOTE]

Do you mean social conventions? I can't see a correlation between underestimating conventions and bottling emotions up inside. If you're a guy that's been rejected by a girl, you're stupid to keep hanging around her, because you should move on and move past the feelings you have for her. But if the girl rejects a guy, and then takes no responsibility to not hurt the guy - well, personally, I perceive that as morally wrong.

 

[Septimius]

Well, I've been in a relationship with my GF for almost 5 years. Sure, we've been happy for the most part/most of that time but I don't feel the same/I'm not as in love with her as I used to be. I've considered ending our relationship but she's talked me out of it and has convinced me that we should still be together (I also couldn't tell her that I'm not as happy as I used to be).

Anyway, over the past few months, I've become pretty close with this female co-worker of mine. We started with the usual chatting, then started having lunch together, and eventually becoming pretty close.

Two weeks ago, I ended up telling her that I really liked her. Obviously more than I should since I had a girlfriend, and she had a boyfriend as well. We agreed that nothing good will come of it and decided to not talk about it again.

Last week however, she suddenly talks about what I told her and told me that she feels the same way. We talked about what we should do about how we felt for each other, and came to the conclusion that we should just stop talking about it since both of us were in a relationship; and both of us weren't willing to end our current relationship to be with each other.

A few nights ago, she sends me a text out of nowhere that says "This is the last time I'll say this but I really like you, and I know it's wrong". I Replied that I feel the same way. She ends the conversation by saying that she thinks that by minimizing our interaction with each other, our feelings for each other would eventually disappear.

The following morning, it's like she became a different person. She started tweeting pictures of her and her boyfriend, and posting stuff about how happy she is with him. I don't know what's gotten into her. I don't know if she felt guilty.

I didn't expect it but I felt a little jealous, especially after what she told me the night before. I also questioned my current relationship more and wondered if I should still be in it.

So yeah, it's been a weird past few weeks for me dating/relationship-wise.

Please don't do things like this while you're in a relationship. The only reason why this isn't devastating to your girlfriend, is because she doesn't know. If you are like that with others, you should end your relationship. If you don't want to, you shouldn't do this with others. You're betraying the most intrinsic and deepest trust another person can have for you. It leaves scars that will take years to heal. Believe me.

Take some time to clear your head, but stop being a fucking idiot. If you think you should end the relationship; end it. If your girlfriend can talk you out of it, don't end it. But don't dither in between like you're doing. Good on the other girl for distancing herself from you. Stay away from her. She's seemingly trying to correct the relationship with her boyfriend. Hopefully she's honest with him about what she's done - likely not. But at any rate, she's stopped doing it.

I have no idea how you can't spend more time communicating with your girlfriend of five years. If the spark's somehow gone, why not work on trying to recreate it? Or do you think your relationship is just going to be perfect forever, without ever having to work on it?

 

[grap3fruitman]

I'm not Nert, but I think the key point he meant there was needing validation, and I think he meant needing it in an unhealthy way. We all need human connections, but we shouldn't need the validation of others to feel like whole individuals.

But that's the thing: a connection with another human being is absolutely a form of validation. It's not just limited to humans either. I'm reminded of Harlow's "Monkey Love" experiments, where isolated monkeys would rather spend most of their time with a surrogate mother made of cloth than eat. There's validation simply in the company of others.

Yep, that's absolutely true. But the part he said about knowing what you want out of whom is important. Of course you need friends and family for social support. But you shouldn't rely on others for a positive self image. Internal drive is better, if you know your strengths and weaknesses you're not constantly looking for validation. Self esteem is waaaay more persistent and positive if it's internal.

How do you think someone with loads of positive self-esteem would deal with being completely isolated?

It happens all the time. While you were together, she was probably keeping her options open, didn't wan't to hurt your feelings, or she hadn't made up her mind about you yet. After she had time to think, she was able to sort out if she was interested or not. Spending time with her girlfriends may have also influenced that decision.

She seemed more affectionate than I did that evening. When I kissed her goodnight and was backing away to leave, she pulled me in for another. So I'm thoroughly confused.

That said, it is also possible that she just hasn't had a chance to get back to you.

All day Saturday, Sunday and now Monday? She's also been active on Tinder in that time frame... =\

As others have said, this happens to everyone Just chalk it up to experience and move on looking for someone else. Clearly this girl saw something in you that at least caught her attention enough to go out with you. That's a good sign that others will to. Use this experience and learn from it. You'll be better prepared for your next first date.

What's supposed to be my takeaway from this? I honestly can't figure it out. Give me a hint at least.

When you state "every single relationship you have with another person has some kind of give and take" in a declarative sense, I would like to point out that it doesn't have to be the case at all. Outside of obvious things like "I work for my employer, so I expect my employer to pay me," I don't really have any relationships where I need to "take" anything from anyone.

I have an active social life with a lot of friends, yet I don't need them to do anything for me on any given day.

So you have an active social life with a lot of friends but you don't enjoy the company that any of these people, right? Of course you do. That's the "give and take" I'm referring to. Being someone's friend is a form of validation that you give to each other.

If you think that I'm being disingenuous, you can always send me a PM and I can explain my situation in greater detail, but there are more relevant things to talk about in this thread.

I don't think you're being disingenuous. You did however miss the point of everything I said.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

What's supposed to be my takeaway from this? I honestly can't figure it out. Give me a hint at least.

For someone who hasn't dated much, any chance to get out with someone should be seen as an opportunity to learn from the experience and make the next date at least a little easier. In this case, you should take the overall experience and be more comfortable going out with someone else next time. You can also learn that just because someone says they want to make plans to meet again, that you shouldn't count on it until things are actually firmed up.

There are any number of things you can take away from this, ranging from how the conversation went, how good the setting of the date was for the mood you were setting, to how you dressed. It's okay to evaluate these things, think about what you would do different and use that the next time. Dating can be a learning experience while you're getting use to the experience. You say you've never really had a date before, so hopefully you took something away from this date that you can use moving forward.

 

[Leeness]

Woo! I'm going on a trip in September! I'm so excited! Will make it a goal to talk to a bunch of people.

Perhaps I will meet a handsome French or Italian man?

Spoiler

Who I will inform immediately that we can only be friends lmao

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Woo! I'm going on a trip in September! I'm so excited! Will make it a goal to talk to a bunch of people.

Perhaps I will meet a handsome French or Italian man?

Spoiler

Who I will inform immediately that we can only be friends lmao

That should be the only phrase you learn in French and Italian

 

[stn]

What's supposed to be my takeaway from this? I honestly can't figure it out. Give me a hint at least.

The main point that Jedi was making was that this kind of stuff happens to everyone and that you should take the experience from the date and use it to find a new date. I totally agree with both things he said. Other things to note that I'm telling you myself:

1. The reason why she stopped talking to you does not matter. Don't waste energy thinking about the reason when the result is already done. What if she stopped talking to you just because she met another guy? At the end of the day...who gives a shit.

2. You proved to yourself that you are capable of meeting women. Do not forget this point. Hell, remind yourself of it everyday.

3. Even though she stopped talking to you you should still view the date as a positive. Why? Because obviously you're good looking enough to land a date. Some people do not have that ability. I have seen your pics, by the way. You have everything you need to succeed, just improve your outlook on life and general charisma.

4. Life is not a situation where you wait on something and then change who you are (ex. being happy only after you've met a girl). You need to constantly train yourself to gain new skills even when you think you have nothing. An example of this is being positive about meeting women even if you're single.

5. Dating is not easy. You need to move on from mistakes and practice for the next success. Stop dwelling on past mistakes, move forward.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions. If I could only give you ONE piece of advice, I'd say this: make sure that this date doesn't make you feel more negative.
Instead of wondering why this girl stopped talking to you, use that energy to message another 40 girls on Tinder or whatever dating site you're using. You want to use your mind in a positive and productive way. At all times. Think of solutions to problems, not the problems themselves.

 

[Leeness]

That should be the only phrase you learn in French and Italian

Looooool will do.

Spoiler

I don't think I'll have to use it anyway, French and Italian women are too gorgeous for anyone to be looking my way, and that's fine by me! Haha.

 

[kai3345]

So im a film major and in one of my classes we have a "lab" class, much like a science class would where we learn about the various inner workings of a camera.

Anyways, in the first week we got split into lab groups. Me and this other girl got to talking, and we quickly realized we had every single class together.

We became fast friends. We obviously see each other multiple times a day and even on weekends we ususally text or facebook each other at least once a day.

A few weeks ago two of my roommates were turning 21 so they planned to throw a big party on a friday night. I invited her to come, and she said yes. Turns out last minute that my roommates moved the party to Saturday. She'd already told me she was busy Saturday, so I asked her if she still wanted to hang out Friday despite the cancelled party - she declined. Things carried on as normal for the next couple of weeks, and then last week I asked if she wanted to go see the Lego movie - she said no.

I'd normally have probably bailed at this point but I think she might also like me back ( unless I'm looking to far into things) she's always wanting me to come study for our science class with her, despite her knowing wayyyy more than me, she's always telling me to let her know if I need an actress for any of our film projects, and then whenever we need to go out to buy supplies for our film classes (hard drives, CF cards, etc.) she always invites me along.

I'm not sure if I want to keep asking her out because on one hand, if she isn't into me, she might think its creepy and make things weird between us, which I don't want since we see each other on quite literally a daily basis. But on the other hand, she has shown some signs of attraction towards me, and if she does like me, I don't want to miss my window before she gives up and finds someone else.

wat do gaf

 

[PBY]

She's not into you

 

[GK86]

I'd normally have probably bailed at this point but I think she might also like me back ( unless I'm looking to far into things) she's always wanting me to come study for our science class with her, despite her knowing wayyyy more than me, she's always telling me to let her know if I need an actress for any of our film projects, and then whenever we need to go out to buy supplies for our film classes (hard drives, CF cards, etc.) she always invites me along.

I think you are reading way too much into this stuff.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

So im a film major and in one of my classes we have a "lab" class, much like a science class would where we learn about the various inner workings of a camera.

Anyways, in the first week we got split into lab groups. Me and this other girl got to talking, and we quickly realized we had every single class together.

We became fast friends. We obviously see each other multiple times a day and even on weekends we ususally text or facebook each other at least once a day.

A few weeks ago two of my roommates were turning 21 so they planned to throw a big party on a friday night. I invited her to come, and she said yes. Turns out last minute that my roommates moved the party to Saturday. She'd already told me she was busy Saturday, so I asked her if she still wanted to hang out Friday despite the cancelled party - she declined. Things carried on as normal for the next couple of weeks, and then last week I asked if she wanted to go see the Lego movie - she said no.

I'd normally have probably bailed at this point but I think she might also like me back ( unless I'm looking to far into things) she's always wanting me to come study for our science class with her, despite her knowing wayyyy more than me, she's always telling me to let her know if I need an actress for any of our film projects, and then whenever we need to go out to buy supplies for our film classes (hard drives, CF cards, etc.) she always invites me along.

I'm not sure if I want to keep asking her out because on one hand, if she isn't into me, she might think its creepy and make things weird between us, which I don't want since we see each other on quite literally a daily basis. But on the other hand, she has shown some signs of attraction towards me, and if she does like me, I don't want to miss my window before she gives up and finds someone else.

wat do gaf

Your reading too much into this. Get out of your own head.

Edit: didn't read the whole thing. She ain't into you bro

 

[Prophet Steve]

Looooool will do.

Spoiler

I don't think I'll have to use it anyway, French and Italian women are too gorgeous for anyone to be looking my way, and that's fine by me! Haha.

Oh shush, think of how alluringly exotic you will appear to them.

 

[Septimius]

So im a film major and in one of my classes we have a "lab" class, much like a science class would where we learn about the various inner workings of a camera.

Anyways, in the first week we got split into lab groups. Me and this other girl got to talking, and we quickly realized we had every single class together.

We became fast friends. We obviously see each other multiple times a day and even on weekends we ususally text or facebook each other at least once a day.

A few weeks ago two of my roommates were turning 21 so they planned to throw a big party on a friday night. I invited her to come, and she said yes. Turns out last minute that my roommates moved the party to Saturday. She'd already told me she was busy Saturday, so I asked her if she still wanted to hang out Friday despite the cancelled party - she declined. Things carried on as normal for the next couple of weeks, and then last week I asked if she wanted to go see the Lego movie - she said no.

I'd normally have probably bailed at this point but I think she might also like me back ( unless I'm looking to far into things) she's always wanting me to come study for our science class with her, despite her knowing wayyyy more than me, she's always telling me to let her know if I need an actress for any of our film projects, and then whenever we need to go out to buy supplies for our film classes (hard drives, CF cards, etc.) she always invites me along.

I'm not sure if I want to keep asking her out because on one hand, if she isn't into me, she might think its creepy and make things weird between us, which I don't want since we see each other on quite literally a daily basis. But on the other hand, she has shown some signs of attraction towards me, and if she does like me, I don't want to miss my window before she gives up and finds someone else.

wat do gaf

So she's declined twice but you're afraid she might give up and find someone else?

It all comes down to how she declined. But the fact that she was coming to the party, but then declined when you asked if she wanted to hang out regardless, shows that you weren't the main reason she was coming. So, yeah, I want to say, she's just not that into you.

 

[Leeness]

Oh shush, think of how alluringly exotic you will appear to them.

Loooooool I wouldn't put "exotic" and "Canadian" together in a sentence.

Nor do "Leeness" and "alluring" go together either hahaha.

 

[kai3345]

So she's declined twice but you're afraid she might give up and find someone else?

It all comes down to how she declined. But the fact that she was coming to the party, but then declined when you asked if she wanted to hang out regardless, shows that you weren't the main reason she was coming. So, yeah, I want to say, she's just not that into you.

The reason she couldn't hang Saturday was that her parents were coming into town and when I asked if she wanted to go to this other party thing (which was more of a nightclub sort of) friday she said she should probably just stay home and clean up her place before her parents got there. Idk what other reasons she would have for wanting to come to the first party and then not the next one, she doesn't know my roommates and certainly not their friends, and she'd have been getting drunk at both.

Then for Lego movie she said she already had plans to go see it with her friends that same night.

To me at least, both sound like reasonable and believable excuses. She would have been down for a chill house party thing but maybe not a packed club when she has to get up early to meet her parents. And then she very well could have been going to the movies with her friends.

And she's usually the one initiating all of the text/facebook convos we have on weekends. Idk, I think I'll follow the rule of threes and give it one last shot before giving up.

 

[PBY]

The reason she couldn't hang Saturday was that her parents were coming into town and when I asked if she wanted to go to this other party thing (which was more of a nightclub sort of) friday she said she should probably just stay home and clean up her place before her parents got there. Idk what other reasons she would have for wanting to come to the first party and then not the next one, she doesn't know my roommates and certainly not their friends, and she'd have been getting drunk at both.

Then for Lego movie she said she already had plans to go see it with her friends that same night.

To me at least, both sound like reasonable and believable excuses. She would have been down for a chill house party thing but maybe not a packed club when she has to get up early to meet her parents. And then she very well could have been going to the movies with her friends.

And she's usually the one initiating all of the text/facebook convos we have on weekends. Idk, I think I'll follow the rule of threes and give it one last shot before giving up.

Bruh. Read the bolded excuse. Think about it. Does she sound into you? No need to get hung up on her, I'd just move on.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Idk, I think I'll follow the rule of threes and give it one last shot before giving up.

Smh, do what you feel then.

 

[kai3345]

Bruh. Read the bolded excuse. Think about it. Does she sound into you? No need to get hung up on her, I'd just move on.

She mentioned the parents long before anything about the party came up. Had that been the first I'd heard of her parents coming into town I'd have def smelled bullshit.

 

[PBY]

She mentioned the parents long before anything about the party came up. Had that been the first I'd heard of her parents coming into town I'd have def smelled bullshit.

Cleaning up the night before though? Listen, you're the one with the context, but I doubt anyone here thinks that based on those facts its a good idea to keep asking her. If a girl is down ya'll will find a way to hangout usually. You gotta do what you think, but no amount of rationalization is going to get me to change my stance.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Yeah... No response again. =/

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Yeah... No response again. =/

It happens man. On to the next one.

 

[PFD]

I'm going to link something now. It's going to be from Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/

It sparked quite a philosophical discussion in our IRC channel. I think there are good things in there though.

I clicked on page 3 of this thread by accident, and I'm so glad I did because I stumbled upon this amazing article. Thanks for posting this, Wormdundee (if you're still around)

 

[Jhoan]

*Excuses*

Then for Lego movie she said she already had plans to go see it with her friends that same night.

To me at least, both sound like reasonable and believable excuses. She would have been down for a chill house party thing but maybe not a packed club when she has to get up early to meet her parents. And then she very well could have been going to the movies with her friends.

And she's usually the one initiating all of the text/facebook convos we have on weekends. Idk, I think I'll follow the rule of threes and give it one last shot before giving up.

Sorry man but she only sees you as a classroom buddy. No more, no less. You already tried hanging out with her outside of school but she didn't bite each time by declining. Been there before. You shouldn't be wasting your time trying if she doesn't make time for you. I know it's hard for you to accept that but it's blatantly obvious to the rest of us.


At least you can focus on other girls that might have not have caught your interest before. It's her loss any way,

Yeah... No response again. =/

It happens to all of us man. Keep your head held high and keep going. Don't give up. Dating is a learning experience. I'm sure there was something positive you got out of going out with her.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Loooooool I wouldn't put "exotic" and "Canadian" together in a sentence.

Nor do "Leeness" and "alluring" go together either hahaha.

First part is true, second part is false.

It's too bad you're still hung up on relationships Leeness. As long as you're happy, that's what matters, I just know you could find someone who would show you the appreciation, love and respect you deserve.

 

[grap3fruitman]

It happens man. On to the next one.

If I couldn't succeed with a girl that was completely into me and shared all the same dorky interests then what chance do I have with someone else? Especially considering most people aren't complete nerds.

It happens to all of us man. Keep your head held high and keep going. Don't give up. Dating is a learning experience. I'm sure there was something positive you got out of going out with her.

I'm more confused than ever.

 

[Leeness]

First part is true, second part is false.

It's too bad you're still hung up on relationships Leeness. As long as you're happy, that's what matters, I just know you could find someone who would show you the appreciation, love and respect you deserve.

I'm not hung up. I'm completely sure with what I want haha. And that is no relationships. Just family and friends. I'm gonna go make some Italian and French friends! Or something. Gonna go hang out in Paris and Rome.

I want to hibernate until September aaaaaahhhh I'm so excited.

Grape, there are about a billion dorky girls with the same interests as you. Not just that one. You will absolutely find another lady just like that one, but even better.

But now you know you can get a lady out on a date and even if she buggered off, that just means she wasn't worth it. But there will definitely be a lady into you and worth your time.