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[viveks86]

Hmmm. It seems like you can use the black water THEN get regenerating health. I sincerely hope there isn't regenerating health in the whole game. It's one of those things that bother me in modern games.

That's what I'm thinking at this point. It is probably used strategically when the odds against you are overwhelming, and wears off after a while. Otherwise, the stuff mentioned in the CVG article wouldn't make sense. No need to say "it can be used" if it's standard throughout the game.

 

[Comfort Jones]

I love this strawman fallacy where a shooter not being "cover based" now means you stand out in the open and tank bullets being thrown around here. Like going from chest high cover to another piece of chest high cover to pick off enemies who stupidly stand up to get shot at is all you can do with it.

Seriously what the fuck.

 

[Marvel]

Brilliant.

 

[TTP]

Brilliant.

That would be a great "banned!" gif as well.

 

[StuBurns]

I love this strawman fallacy where a shooter not being "cover based" now means you stand out in the open and tank bullets being thrown around here. Like going from chest high cover to another piece of chest high cover to pick off enemies who stupidly stand up to get shot at is all you can do with it.

Seriously what the fuck.

Can you name a third person shooter released last generation that didn't use cover, and isn't basically a 'tank bullet' style such as Space Marine?

 

[Marvel]

That would be a great "banned!" gif as well.

Good call.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

That would be a great "banned!" gif as well.

with bish's face in lieu of the old man's.

El Torro, you know what you must do.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Can you name a third person shooter released last generation that didn't use cover, and isn't basically a 'tank bullet' style such as Space Marine?

Already straw manning me by implying I'm saying a shooter can't use cover at all.

Also, Dead Space and RE5?


Either way you aren't actually countering what I'm saying in the slightest.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Visuals are incredible, but I find it a strange selection of footage to release as our first in-game look. Maybe they'll save an 'Uncharted 2-esque' setpiece for E3.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Can you name a third person shooter released last generation that didn't use cover, and isn't basically a 'tank bullet' style such as Space Marine?

Hmm, to me there was a split between TPS being cover-based and high energy action games (like Vanguish). What decent TPS were there last gen that didn't conform to either of those. I think there should be a balance. I suspect with this game it will be cover versus huma foes and werewolves will flush you and you will have to run and gun.

To be honest, I remember 'run and gun' was something of a byword for shallow gameplay last gen. I hope they have some environmental destruction in this game so cover isn't stable. I agree on the need for innovation, but cover based gameplay isn't jus a simple mechanic...It is a legitimate approach to fighting with projectile weapons. Dynamic environments could definitely alleviate some of the issues people seem to have (well, 1 in 10 at most are justifying why they had it so much....)

Comfort Jones: Strawman has become a strawman, can we not revert to cliches?

 

[revolverjgw]

Not much to go on, too small a sample to draw any conclusions from. I'm honestly hoping for a reskinned Uncharted, I'm not looking for anything ambitious here but I'd like some light puzzle/adventure/platforming elements, I don't want a Gears-style nonstop shooter. It's the atmosphere and the mustaches that draw me to this, give me some time to breathe and admire that.

 

[StuBurns]

Already straw manning me by implying I'm saying a shooter can't use cover at all.

No, I didn't imply that at all.

Also, Dead Space and RE5?

Well, I don't remember Dead Space that well, but RE5 does in fact have notable cover sections when you're under gun fire, because you're under gun fire. Games that have you shooting monsters that slowly walk towards you and aren't a physical threat at a distance obviously don't need cover.

Either way you aren't actually countering what I'm saying in the slightest.

I think the fact you can't provide a single accurate example of a third person shooter without cover is countering your point.

You claim no cover doesn't mean just running around in gun fire, ala Space Marine/Max Payne, and yet you can't muster an example to suggest that's correct.

 

[viveks86]

Hmmm. It seems like you can use the black water THEN get regenerating health. I sincerely hope there isn't regenerating health in the whole game. It's one of those things that bother me in modern games.

No automatic regen confirmed. You need to use black water, which is basically a health kit (not what you and I previously thought). Just read the game informer magazine. It says that throughout the battle, they had to 'frequently' use black water to keep their health up. Games Radar probably saw it being used while in cover and made their own assumption.

Not much to go on, too small a sample to draw any conclusions from. I'm honestly hoping for a reskinned Uncharted, I'm not looking for anything ambitious here but I'd like some light puzzle/adventure/platforming elements, I don't want a Gears-style nonstop shooter. It's the atmosphere and the mustaches that draw me to this, give me some time to breathe and admire that.

DemonNite said there will be puzzles involving abilities that allow you to bend metal and create paths.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Can you name a third person shooter released last generation that didn't use cover, and isn't basically a 'tank bullet' style such as Space Marine?

EDF2017, EDF 2025, Bullet Witch, The Outfit, Transformers: War for Cybertron, Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Lost Planet, Lost Planet 2, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Ghostbusters, Crackdown, Crackdown 2, Just Cause, Just Cause 2... Some of those are not straight shooters, but they fit the bill for the most part.

 

[Ashes]

Walked around Whitechapel road yesterday and thought of this game.

 

[StuBurns]

EDF2017, EDF 2025, Bullet Witch, The Outfit, Transformers: War for Cybertron, Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Lost Planet, Lost Planet 2, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Ghostbusters, Crackdown, Crackdown 2, Just Cause, Just Cause 2... Some of those are not straight shooters, but they fit the bill for the most part.

Some of them certainly do (I would say outside of the Dead Spaces), but they fail to produce a realistic or somber atmosphere, they are all that running around moronically creating mayhem, and that certainly has it's place, but it's also completely contradictory to what RAD are attempting.

I'm not saying something like Just Cause is crap, but the idea of going in and out of The Last of Us style cinematic with Just Cause absurdity would be impossibly incongruous.

 

[StealthGoblin]

EDF2017, EDF 2025, Bullet Witch, The Outfit, Transformers: War for Cybertron, Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Lost Planet, Lost Planet 2, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Ghostbusters, Crackdown, Crackdown 2, Just Cause, Just Cause 2... Some of those are not straight shooters, but they fit the bill for the most part.

I wouldn't even have named most/all of those games in a list of shooters if I was put on the spot and given two minutes. I suspect RAD have gone with a cover mechanic mainly because:

a) cover based TPS games sell better and have more public lasting memory.
b) it fits this universe. The knights are human and can die. Any normal mortal wound for a human would kill them. They just have advanced healing and life. If I werewolf was on the loose, I'd sure as hell take cover.
c) the steampunk element allows for interesting weapons. Their physics engine is partially designed around destructibility.

I think it makes sense for the cover mechanic. My big concern is that it'll be a corridor-arena-corridor shooter.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Some of them certainly do (I would say outside of the Dead Spaces), but they fail to produce a realistic or somber atmosphere, they are all that running around moronically creating mayhem, and that certainly has it's place, but it's also completely contradictory to what RAD are attempting.

I have no idea what you guys have been arguing over nor do I care about what kind of a shooter The Order is or isn't, I just noticed your post and replied, but the notion that a modern shooter needs to have a cover system in order to "produce a realistic or somber atmosphere" is... Not something I can agree with, to put it in polite terms. You already mentioned Dead Space, and I'll raise you Alan Wake, one of the most deliberate and atmospheric "shooters" in recent memory. A cover system is obviously not a necessity.

 

[Mullah88]

Socom confrontation...

Spoiler

without the glitches, was an awesome and addictive skill based third person shooter

anyways for a game going for a cinematic look/feel, cover based system is required...and I hate them with a passion! It has no place in a military tps but for games like uncharted, gears, max payne, it should be mandatory

 

[StuBurns]

I have no idea what you guys have been arguing over nor do I care about what kind of a shooter The Order is or isn't, I just noticed your post and replied, but the notion that a modern shooter needs to have a cover system in order to "produce a realistic or somber atmosphere" is... Not something I can agree with, to put it in polite terms. You already mentioned Dead Space, and I'll raise you Alan Wake, one of the most deliberate and atmospheric "shooters" in recent memory. A cover system is obviously not a necessity.

I think both of those examples, and of course, RE4, are a flawed comparison because the antagonism isn't well armed men trying to shoot you, it's monsters walking towards you, or throwing things at you, or you're given an ability to stun, and essentially pause people's movements.

If the point is to convey any sense of a realistic combat situation with human men with guns, I don't think any of them do it at all. You could also argue that the game could simply not have you fight humans, and certainly you do fight other things, but that would obviously be a very different game in terms of story, and atmosphere.

 

[Mullah88]

We haven't seen the dynamics of the gun battle when fighting the monsters (whatever they're called), i don't think you’ll be using cover as much when you have something rushing the shit out of you as opposed to enemy AI taking cover and popping shots off

 

[StuBurns]

We haven't seen the dynamics of the gun battle when fighting the monsters (whatever they're called), i don't think you’ll be using cover as much when you have something rushing the shit out of you as opposed to enemy AI taking cover and popping shots off

Indeed, cover would presumably not be effective if the gameplay becomes similar to the reveal trailer, open areas, monsters that can climb up walls and such.

It's one of the reasons Vanquish was such an amazing game, having enemies that negate the cover system, forcing constant movements, very cool.

 

[Toxi]

Can you name a third person shooter released last generation that didn't use cover, and isn't basically a 'tank bullet' style such as Space Marine?

"Doesn't use cover" is not what we're talking about. Every shooter has cover of some fashion, even ones where the player has ridiculous health and mobility. We're talking about slow straddling chest-high wall "checkpoints" with pop-a-mole enemies.

If we have to keep things "atmospheric", okay. What's the point of hyping a unique setting if it's just going to bring the same sort of gameplay we're used to? It's just slapping a new coat of paint on something tired.

Of course, I'm speaking from a small clip and there are undoubtedly things I'm missing, but I need to see stuff like cover destruction implemented in-game before I can talk about it.

 

[StuBurns]

If we have to keep things "atmospheric", okay. What's the point of hyping a setting if it's just going to bring the same sort of gameplay we're used to?

I just don't see why this is a valid criticism with this game, and not every other single game that gets announced though. They're not all cover based third person shooters, of course, but every major release has very clear roots within preexisting game design.

Why this game?

This year I'm planning to buy Thief, of course iterative, InFamous SS, again iterative, Murdered Soul Suspect, again iterative, The Evil Within, Destiny, Watch Dogs, Dragon Age, Dying Light, etc, etc, etc.

I literally can't think of any upcoming game that isn't directly derived by something else.

 

[Acquiescence]

Using games like Dead Space, Alan Wake and Resident Evil 5 as examples of third-person shooters that deviate from a traditional cover system are puzzling, considering you're pitted against a range of supernatural beasties in those titles, and not gun-toting human beings. You can bet that when it comes to confrontations with enemies of the lycanthrope variety, you'll be a lot less dependant on cover.

Much like The Last of Us really. A lot of good the use of cover would do you once you've attracted the attention of the infected.

 

[Fnord]

The gameplay footage so far, while short, strikes me as lacking in inspired game design and being way too evocative of any run-of-the-mill cover shooter of the past generation. The QTE looks scripted to hell and back.

Why is it that Zelda and Mario are immune from these criticisms? Honest question.

 

[SniperHunter]

Extremely poor first showing.

Great graphics but minimal gameplay. I want to see big gun fights, more enemies, good ai and their physics system. They should have waited for e3 and shown a proper demo

 

[hendersonhank]

What is the alternative? Stand around and get shot at? Yeah that sounds even more entertaining.

The alternative could be taking cover around corners and behind cars and stuff. Stuff that actually exists. Most of us don't live in a world where chest high walls litter the fields and streets.

 

[SniperHunter]

The alternative could be taking cover around corners and behind cars and stuff. Stuff that actually exists. Most of us don't live in a world where chest high walls litter the fields and streets.

This isnt a cover shooter though, just take a look at the e3 trailer. The stage shown here is probably a training stage. When the monsters show up you wont be engaging in gunfights with them

 

[StuBurns]

The alternative could be taking cover around corners and behind cars and stuff. Stuff that actually exists. Most of us don't live in a world where chest high walls litter the fields and streets.

English houses often have drive ways with chest high walls, gardens are often separated by chest high walls, and in London in 1886 there were no cars.

 

[RoboPlato]

The alternative could be taking cover around corners and behind cars and stuff. Stuff that actually exists. Most of us don't live in a world where chest high walls litter the fields and streets.

I don't get this criticism of cover shooters. If you look around the real world you can see plenty of items that are about the right size to be used as cover. The "chest high walls" are usually not what you're taking cover behind. It usually is cars and crates and things like that and where there are walls, it usually makes sense architecturally.

 

[Bunta]

with bish's face in lieu of the old man's.

El Torro, you know what you must do.

I'm no El Torro, but I gave it a shot.

 

[Loudninja]

Haha nice.

Why not use that cover if its that big of a deal?It just such a odd criticism.

 

[DieH@rd]

I'm no El Torro, but I gave it a shot.

Excellent.

 

[Nightengale]

The short scenes gave me a little Star Wars vibe.

The quib between Gally and Laffy "patience, monkey. Patience, always patience", along with the tone of their voices reminded me of Quigon and Obiwan from the first-movie.

 

[Marmac]

Hopefully the game is not fully optimized yet because it looks and runs like shit.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

I'm no El Torro, but I gave it a shot.

perfection

 

[Loudninja]

Hopefully the game is not fully optimized yet because it looks and runs like shit.

Yes the demo was unoptimized and no the game looks fantastic.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Hopefully the game is not fully optimized yet because it looks and runs like shit.

How does it look like shit? It looks incredible. Arguably the best looking game ever.

 

[Lord Error]

Looked like it ran well from those few clips they've shown. Is there any actual video that shows framerate drops or something?

 

[maquiladora]

Hopefully the game is not fully optimized yet because it looks and runs like shit.

Looks like shit?

Oh boy....

 

[Krusenstern]

I'm no El Torro, but I gave it a shot.

That's pretty good.
Needs a big red BANNED popping up in that moment somewhere.

 

[Comfort Jones]

I don't get this criticism of cover shooters. If you look around the real world you can see plenty of items that are about the right size to be used as cover. The "chest high walls" are usually not what you're taking cover behind. It usually is cars and crates and things like that and where there are walls, it usually makes sense architecturally.

My criticism stems from how heavily you rely on basically just hiding behind this invincible piece of chest high cover while brain dead enemies just kinda pop out to get shot at. One thing I appreciated in The Last of Us actually was how shoot outs made you want to move a decent amount because enemies generally did not want to show themselves to trade shots.

I don't think anyone is saying a shooter needs to NEVER use cover but when there's clearly a focus on just lazily going from chest high wall to chest high wall with no emphasis on mobility or intelligent options, it gets really played out fast.

And if it has regen health any interest I could have is gone forever.

 

[EL CUCO]

I'm no El Torro, but I gave it a shot.

GLORIOUS!

 

[RoboPlato]

My criticism stems from how heavily you rely on basically just hiding behind this invincible piece of chest high cover while brain dead enemies just kinda pop out to get shot at. One thing I appreciated in The Last of Us actually was how shoot outs made you want to move a decent amount because enemies generally did not want to show themselves to trade shots.

I don't think anyone is saying a shooter needs to NEVER use cover but when there's clearly a focus on just lazily going from chest high wall to chest high wall with no emphasis on mobility or intelligent options, it gets really played out fast.

And if it has regen health any interest I could have is gone forever.

That's where I think destruction will play a big roll in this game. If cover gets destroyed regularly, the player will have to keep moving and neither the player or enemies will be able to turtle up.

 

[Evolved1]

That would be a great "banned!" gif as well.

Needs a Bish face.... would be awesome.


edit: lol nvm!

 

[AuthenticM]

That's pretty good.
Needs a big red BANNED popping up in that moment somewhere.

When the guy hits the wall, yeah.

 

[Violater]

The Sessler interview made my interest in the game pique if ever so slightly.

 

[Evolved1]

When the guy hits the wall, yeah.

actually, just after his body crumples over... haha

 

[flatearthpandas]

I have a PS4 with no games except Resogun... and this isn't selling me.
Still interested in the setting so we'll see.