Anasui Kishibe
Banned
ULTIMATE because it's definitive
my favourite? not really, too easy and quick.
my favourite? not really, too easy and quick.
Why do people consider death the ultimate form of punishment?
- Thread starter isamu
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Agent Ironside
Member
I thought lethal injection was suppose to be brutal?
Patrick Bateman
Member
RumFore said:
aswedc said:
There will never be 100% certainty of guilt.
Klaxon said:
There are plenty of of cases where 100% guilt is known. Hollywood has dramatized Cases so much.
Its very common to know most the facts behind cases and it would be just as easy as to do a Judge Dredd Style system(not that I support that) with many of these killers but since we are a "Nation of the law" we give them trial so they can claim innocence and mock the system even when the burden of proof of guilt is as tall as the Himalayas.
VALIS said:
Exactly
okno said:
CrushDance said:
TheDuce22 said:
HotByCold said:
GIVE. ME. A. BREAK.
You guys are obviously not looking at the bigger picture here. Sure it would be horrible to no longer exist. But the notion that because once you're dead you're dead and you can no longer commit the crime again justifies you being out to death is ridiculous. Any opinions on what happens once your dead is just speculation! If someone rapes and kills my mother do you think I would be satisfied with him only getting the death penalty, where he probably won't feel any pain or discomfort, and would probably look forward it anyway?
Attention folks.....lot's of these criminals either TAKE THEIR OWN LIFE or WANT to die! Death is letting them off the hook way too easily! Being tortured to the extent that the pain is so severe the poor bastard falls into shock, is something that needs to be mandatory for cold blooded criminals.
Why some of you are failing to see it this way is beyond me.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Isamu, I agree with you and the dude you quoted. Since we're in the minority, though, it makes me curious: are we depressed?
For me, death wouldn't be a big deal. I'm not suicidal or anything, but if I were to die tomorrow, my only regret would be the pain it would cost my loved ones. Otherwise, I'd be perfectly cool with it. It's really freaking tiring to wake up and have to do the same things I've done thousands of times: brush teeth, fold clothes, vacuum, go to work (which is admittedly enjoyable for me), prepare food, wash dishes, etc. I wouldn't mind being offed, again, if I didn't have people I love and vice-versa. They really do make it worthwhile.
But people who commit crimes of heinous natures often don't have loved ones. I can't imagine that they would care about being killed too much.
The reason you and I think that is because we see it through our eyes. To people adjusted to society, however, staying alive is a given, and someone taking that given away is the ultimate punishment.
For me, death wouldn't be a big deal. I'm not suicidal or anything, but if I were to die tomorrow, my only regret would be the pain it would cost my loved ones. Otherwise, I'd be perfectly cool with it. It's really freaking tiring to wake up and have to do the same things I've done thousands of times: brush teeth, fold clothes, vacuum, go to work (which is admittedly enjoyable for me), prepare food, wash dishes, etc. I wouldn't mind being offed, again, if I didn't have people I love and vice-versa. They really do make it worthwhile.
But people who commit crimes of heinous natures often don't have loved ones. I can't imagine that they would care about being killed too much.
The reason you and I think that is because we see it through our eyes. To people adjusted to society, however, staying alive is a given, and someone taking that given away is the ultimate punishment.
IronicallyTwisted
Banned
I think punishment for the sake of revenge is the wrong way to look at things. I think punishments should be in place to prevent people from doing things in the first place, to help reform those who have done wrong and set right what they did wrong if possible, and to remove those who are beyond reformation from society.
UltimaPooh
Member
isamu said:
Not all crimes deserve the punishment of death. The ones taht do though are murders of children (especially in horrific ways) rapping and horrible murders of anyone, and mass murders/serial killers.
Now that, that's out of the way... The dealth penality is good becuase it eliminates the problem. They aren't a working part of society or helping the advancement of the human race when they decide to commit those acts. They become a problem for everyone and as such they shoulod be eliminated. They didn't have any remorse killing those kids, or rapping/murding those people. Just because they feel horrible after that act shouldn't change the fact that they are now useless to scoiet, and have caused great harm to helping humanity.
Sure there might not be anything after death or they could have the possibilty of going to heaven (which would ben highly unlikely if you follow Christianity.) The important thing though, is that they are no longer our problem. Which is a good thing.
An eye for an eye hey? This whole issue really is a double edged sword. While I say that they should be killed for their actiosn against society and humanity I also think that we need to take a higher road than those that we condemn. Torturing them would jsut cause further problems for society anyway, just elminated the problem and everyone can go back to what they were doing. The family members would have som satisfcation in the fact that what has ever brought harm to their lives and the lives of their family members has no ended.
I agree there are far worse things than death, but should we really do them? We're supposed to be better than the criminals.
UltimaPooh said:
I wish I could be as sympathetic as you. Let me ask you...would you feel the same way towards someone that say, brutally killed or raped a loved one of yours? What if someone did something simply unspeakable to your child(if you have childern)? Would you actually be satisfied knowing the perpetrator will get nothing more than a lethal/painless injection and then be put out of his misery? I highly doubt it.
And before anyone asks, no, I have not been a victim, nor have any relatives or loved ones that have been victims of such henious crimes. I have friends who have been shot/mugged, but that's about it.
No direct torture and no death penalty. Just keep them in prison for the rest of their lives. But not the nice and tidy shit they get today that's more resourceful, clean, and pleasant than your average american's house of living on welfare.
I'm talking motherfucking communist gulags. No tv or recreation time and the only sun they get is when pushing around 100lbs of whatever the hell in 100+ degree weather. No bed; just rocky, dirt ground with a thin mattress and some sheets. No toilet system, just a pail and bucket. No conversation with any other inmates or the guards. Food once a day.
This would be for the extra vile bastards. The guys whose list of crimes would make children spontaneously vomit when you showed them pictures of what they did.
I'm talking motherfucking communist gulags. No tv or recreation time and the only sun they get is when pushing around 100lbs of whatever the hell in 100+ degree weather. No bed; just rocky, dirt ground with a thin mattress and some sheets. No toilet system, just a pail and bucket. No conversation with any other inmates or the guards. Food once a day.
This would be for the extra vile bastards. The guys whose list of crimes would make children spontaneously vomit when you showed them pictures of what they did.
Why does it matter what he'd be satisfied with? A guy cut me off the other day and nearly made me swerve off the road and I'm not satisfied with the fact that I didn't get to kick him in the face. Doesn't mean it would have been right or productive for me to do so.isamu said:
Looking at it from a third party, non-emotionally attached perspective, using punishment to get revenge is not productive to anybody. The punitive system should not exist to help victims get revenge, it should exist to keep people in line, set straight those who can be set straight, and remove those who can't be set straight.
I agree with GAF most of the time, but their eye-for-an-eye bullshit perplexes me.
I think my favorite instance of this was a thread about some prisoner being raped/abused by guards, and the GAF Justice Squad came in and decided the guards should be thrown in jail to get ass-raped and abused. I assume the perpetrators of that ass-raping would have to be punished as well, creating some kind of neverending cycle of vengeful sodomy.
I'm glad GAF has no control over our penal system. D:
I think my favorite instance of this was a thread about some prisoner being raped/abused by guards, and the GAF Justice Squad came in and decided the guards should be thrown in jail to get ass-raped and abused. I assume the perpetrators of that ass-raping would have to be punished as well, creating some kind of neverending cycle of vengeful sodomy.
I'm glad GAF has no control over our penal system. D:
UltimaPooh
Member
isamu said:
I don't know how I would react under such circumstances...
Having them killed and not be a problem to anyone else (IE taxes paying for them to be tortured, taxes to keep them alive just barely, taxes to house them, etc.) Killing them and then giving them a shitty grave would probably be enough satisfaction to me.
It really all depends on the charges on them if they went Dahmer on people or were pedo's they would have a hit on them. The prison would more than likely take them out of general population for their own safety. Other people that aren't pedo's or Dahmer like would have no problem living in peace unless they pissed of the wrong people.VALIS said:
Or not.notsol337 said:
If I've already raped 10,000 little boys and know I'll get the death penalty, what's to stop me from killing them so I'm not discovered? What are they gonna do, kill me twice? Capital punishment can create criminals with nothing to lose, and they're the most dangerous kind.
Synth_floyd
Banned
The death penalty should be abolished. There are many mistakes in it, the government doesn't have the right to take a person's life, it's not a deterrant.
oxrock
Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
I think i'd be satisfied if the worst offenders were all put on an island where there was nothing around but miles and miles of water. Let them work hard together to survive as a community or just die, it'd be in thier hands. Then just chum the surrounding ocean so there's plenty of hungry sharks about to deter anyone trying to swim off.
Night_Trekker
Member
AmishNazi said:
I almost made that joke. Almost.
SecretSphere
Member
Not exactly the same, but sounds a bit like this in Norway:oxrock said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...rridge-in-worlds-first-green-jail-401308.html
I agree with this. Some people on GAF seem to use prisoners as subjects for their projections of sick, sociopathic fantasies under the disguise of being righteous and caring for the victims. If you really care and want to help those victims then donate to funds for abused people or give support in someway. Angry messages and sociopathic fantasies about torturing people isn't helping anyone.
I found it!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Escape
It was a pretty good movie from what I remember.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Escape
It was a pretty good movie from what I remember.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
you all know what's the ultimate form of death penalty
so damn entertaining
so damn entertaining
isamu said:
Yeah, it's not like we have an Eighth Amendment, or anything...
Seriously, though, I am 100% against the death penalty, because I don't think it's a justifiable reaction to anything short of an immediate threat to human life and liberty.
When you kill some one you snuff out any potential for reform, or even for the positive contributions that a flawed individual can still contribute to our society.
Additionally, on an economic level, it's far too costly. Both financially, since the appeals process (which is ABSOLUTELY necessary, unless you don't mind killing innocent folks,) costs so much, and also morally, as it cheapens the percieved value of human life. When you declare that there are circumstances where killing is acceptable, and even a thing to be celebrated, you serve to encourage more non-government sanctioned killing; whether you want to or not.
And torture is just the same, in that regard.
The purpose of the judicial system should not be to "punish" criminals in order to achieve some sense of cosmic justice. It should be as a deterrent and as a tool of reform. Killing or even tourturing a murderer will not bring their victims back to life, but knowing that there is a penalty WILL deter some would be murderers (and capital punishment has been shown to be NO MORE effective a deterent than other penalties, so there is no argument for it there.) Additionally, if it is possible to truely reform a murderer, wouldn't it be far preferable, for the health of society as a whole, to fix that broken individual, and then allow them to contribute to society, and hopefully in the end give back even some small piece fo whatthey took away? That's much better, for the whole, than executing them would be, which gives absolutely nothng to society other than a sense of superiority.
The only time I could see killing a criminal to be warranted is if they are somehow a permenant and uncontainable threat to the health and well-being of others. SInce super-villains don't exist in real life, I'm not sure how exactly it would be absolutely impossible to contain a given individual.
As far as life after death, that shouldn't be the government's concern. It is entirelyunknown, and likely unknowable, so we should be concened withthe things we actually can be aware of.
I always preferred Stu's version of dealing with people who have committed crimes against humanity:
Step 1: Find murderer/rapist/molester/serial killer
Step 2: Arrest murderer/rapist/molester/serial killer
Step 3: Toss said guilty bastard in to furnace and burn them
Step 4: Throw pizza party.
DubloSeven
Member
Nothing happens after we die.isamu said:
We rot in the ground.
NEXT.
DubloSeven said:
Way to be entirely unscientific.
Scientifically, we have no answer for what happens after we die.
Which means, until we have an answer, ours laws should not concern themselves with it.
Same outcomes, but without the unwarranted moral-superiority that your belief is "righter" than anyone else's
DubloSeven
Member
There's nothing to say there is anything after we die - Why should we take it into account when punishing someone?Evander said:
i think the thing is there is no way to "make it right" or to receive reparations after the fact. no matter how bad some torture or whatever is, you know many of the people are thinking "at least i can cash in on this BIG TIME when it is over" (lawsuits, compensation, etc.). there's something to that.
DubloSeven
Member
Right, I agree with you. I really didn't make that clear. My badEvander said:
Count Dookkake
Member
Snoo-snoo.
HawkHarrelson
Banned
the op seems like it was written by a 10 year old
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