Then they need to explain why they used the good lighting engine in very recent marketing and why it's STILL being used to market the game when it's clearly not present in all versions of the game.
#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
Then they need to explain why they used the good lighting engine in very recent marketing and why it's STILL being used to market the game when it's clearly not present in all versions of the game.
CountAntonius
Member
Here is another video from February 6th. Seems that wave of previews from January on were using the retail build?
Eurogamer preview
Eurogamer preview
I guess the lesson here is to not hold From Software to a higher standard than Ubisoft. They clearly don't deserve it after this fuckery.
Instead of worrying about whether or not the PC will look like the demo build you should be worrying if it will even be a competent console port in the first place. I'm aware of the claims they've publicly made regarding the PC version, but seeing as they're this willing to blatantly lie to their main audience about not only what the game will look like, but also to go so far as to render a gameplay mechanic they had been showing off for months as nothing more a vestigial remembrance of what should have been. Keeping that in mind I wouldn't take their word for what they're promising for the PC version, which was so important to them it couldn't even launch concurrently with the console version. I don't know why anyone would.
Instead of worrying about whether or not the PC will look like the demo build you should be worrying if it will even be a competent console port in the first place. I'm aware of the claims they've publicly made regarding the PC version, but seeing as they're this willing to blatantly lie to their main audience about not only what the game will look like, but also to go so far as to render a gameplay mechanic they had been showing off for months as nothing more a vestigial remembrance of what should have been. Keeping that in mind I wouldn't take their word for what they're promising for the PC version, which was so important to them it couldn't even launch concurrently with the console version. I don't know why anyone would.
The game runs like dogpoo on the PS3 and I couldn't imagine them pushing that engine any further.
Guy's I love Souls as the next person but fans in this thread are wrong to just dismiss this as just bitching.
Some downgrading and optimisation is to be expected but the changes shown in that other thread are too great (not just lighting) and last minute to let them off the hook for that reason. Especially when FROM / Bamco have said nothing about the matter themselves.
All ppl want is answers, I especially want to know what they have in store for the PC version and the ongoing patches of all 3 versions or will they be used as a carrot to double / triple dip on a definitive version.
I plan on buying DS2 360 on Monday whatever the weather, but how FROM / Bamco handle this will affect later purchases.
Some downgrading and optimisation is to be expected but the changes shown in that other thread are too great (not just lighting) and last minute to let them off the hook for that reason. Especially when FROM / Bamco have said nothing about the matter themselves.
All ppl want is answers, I especially want to know what they have in store for the PC version and the ongoing patches of all 3 versions or will they be used as a carrot to double / triple dip on a definitive version.
I plan on buying DS2 360 on Monday whatever the weather, but how FROM / Bamco handle this will affect later purchases.
Hydranockz
Member
Clearly you should all be tweeting Dark Sun Gwyndolin.
Lambda Pie
Banned
yes but the issue is this:
game doesn't have it on release day then don't buy the game missing the features you wanted. pretty simple.
i really fail to see what's this gonna accomplish especially when, like Lazyslob said above, they can just say they ran into some roadblocks near the end of the development and had to cut some effects.
CountAntonius
Member
So can someone with the game tell me if this is the retail build they are playing? I went on Youtube looking for the latest previews and around late January early February all the previews were using this footage. It looks pretty similar to what I have been seeing on streams but I'm not sure not having played the game myself.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
#YOULIED... really?
This will get no good results at all.
This will get no good results at all.
BRocknRolla
Member
Guys, I know you're on a video game enthusiast website and all, and obviously so am I, but let me remind you all, these are VIDEO GAMES, so OBVIOUSLY none of it matters. Now excuse me while I go spend more time posting on a members-only video game forum.
In all seriousness though, I like the spirit. Honesty in advertising is something I find very important. It matters very little that the final product is still great, that's really neither here nor there. This is about whether you received the advertised product as advertised, not whether you were happy with it. That said, clever though the hashtags might be, I think they might be a bit too aggressive sounding to start an actual dialogue.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I thought it was pretty clever at least, even if it appears to have the connotation of a more extreme amount of frustration.
We gotta keep fighting the good fight here in either case.
If you're expecting a detailed explanation along the lines of GG's post about Shadowfall's multiplayer temporal resolution I think you're all in for some disappointment.
IF they respond it will be a canned PR statement about development sometimes requiring changes right up until release to ensure an optimal player experience blah blah blah...
IF they respond it will be a canned PR statement about development sometimes requiring changes right up until release to ensure an optimal player experience blah blah blah...
jacksepticeye
Member
Sounds like you're just blindly dismissing stuff because you like the game
Pre-release footage acts as an advertisement for the final product. Stuff does change indeed but it's usually not as severe as this, it's stuff re-arranged or stuff added in different places. There is a gross level of degradation in some comparisons of DSII that are just flat out hard to deny. Not only that but they hyped their new engine and lighting system as a very key gameplay mechanic. They were very proud of their torch and dynamic shadow mechanics in darker areas and then they completely removed it or changed it to a point of redundancy
Neither looked spectacular I'll agree to, but they never showed great looking footage and then completely change it last minute (in relation to how long the game was in development). They never mentioned that it was degrade or even hinted at it and on the scale that it happened, they really should have said something. The final product looks nothing like the pre-release stuff whether you watched it or not
The flickering shadows would annoy you? cool. Doesn't change any of what I, or other people, have said
Sort of blows my mind people get upset by this and feel they need to defend Namco/FROM.
Regardless of what you think of the game, it is pretty lame to misrepresent your product before launching. I can understand things change, but they could at least be upfront about it and maybe show true gameplay demos.
However I don't really get upset by this because I rarely buy games at launch anymore.
john_trent11
Member
#foolusonceshameonthem
#foolustwiceshameonus
Given the current mess with consoles, how can you possibly trust that "they are promising better visuals" with the PC version?
Lambda Pie
Banned
yes, it's the same (or 99% similar) as the final game.
This videowas released a few days earlier, on Playstation's channel no less, is of the build with all the features.
jacksepticeye
Member
What's worse is the double standard with Dark Souls as opposed to Watch Dogs.
DSII seems to be allowed to slide a lot more with people because it's Dark Souls
How hard would it have been to release some sort of developer diary before release saying they had to scrap the lighting effects, and gameplay centered around them?
If that is the retail build, then I'm even more pissed off at the "journalists" that never mentioned anything about the downgrade.
If that is the retail build, then I'm even more pissed off at the "journalists" that never mentioned anything about the downgrade.
StriKeVillain
Banned
You're alternative is what then? Gamers sit on their hands and gobble whatever companies shove down the trough?
I admit, a bit hyperbolic. But I want you to tell me what's wrong with customers speaking up when they feel they didn't receive the actual value from the content they purchased.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Disc version?
CountAntonius
Member
This make no sense because I found at least 5 previews on YouTube that used the footage I posted before months ago that was clearly worse looking than this one. Why would show one then switch it up for another preview? Are there more previews recently using the old engine? I'm think if they were looking to deceive people than the media blitz in January would not have used that other less impressive footage. Someone fucked up..
Yeah you're probably right. But then again I never buy a game based on previews or even demos because most of the time it's not the final product.
If there's a screenshot from the old build on the box, then that's pretty damn misleading, no two ways about it.
Even without that, the fact that literally every bit of footage before the game came out had more features than the released game (and the lighting IS a feature, a heavily advertised one at that) is incredibly skeevy.
I was going to wait for the PC version, so I hope we get some answers as to whether there will be any answers or changes.
The pessimist in me says that PS4 and Xbox One ports will be announced in the near future, and we'll see lighting that we saw in the trailers :|
From doesn't deserve this kind of hate. The game still looks better than the previous Souls games. If the lighting downgrade bothers you so much just don't buy the game. So what if they showed off the lighting beforehand. You have to wait until a game releases before making a decision on whether to buy it or not based on something like that. Shit happens in development and some things get cut. I don't understand what this "movement" is trying to achieve? Do you just want to hear from Namco/From that they had to cut it to improve performance?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yep, especially when there *IS* footage of the PS360 release build in the Jan promo's linked in this thread.
Kinda quashes the whole "deceit" angle.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
The people defending FROM right now are the same ones who were defending them when they released a disgrace of a PC port. Yes they make great games but that doesn't justify defending the inexcusable.
Yup. Been thinking I should probably install it sooner or later.
Which means they should have stated beforehand, maybe then the reaction this is getting wouldn't happen.
Exactly.
I bet that Bandai Namco is just hoping that people double dip on the nextgen versions. Sega and Konami aren't pulling this shit and were pretty upfront about each version's details.
The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if they gimped the PC to look less impressive than a nextgen version.
The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if they gimped the PC to look less impressive than a nextgen version.
I just want to know why they didn't tell anyone about it.
FairXchange
Member
It really depends on your definition of inexcusable. I think a company like EA rushing a fundamentally broken game like BF4 to market is inexcusable. I think making graphical compromises due to hardware, budget and time constraints is par for the course in game development. The final product is all that matters, and From delivered on that experience without any stretch of the imagination really.
You're mad that From didn't disclose changes, but you can't recognize the retail build by looking at it?
Don't boil down arguments to this level. Let's have an intelligent discussion, shall we?
I never said anything about it being wrong. I think customers disappointed with the game should definitely petition Namco/From. I'm just saying that whatever they respond with most likely won't satisfy any curiousity regarding the details of why the game had to be altered.
jacksepticeye
Member
and that's entirely up to you to do. but other people DID watch previews and the game did drastically change visually so it shouldn't be dismissed so easily
It's how (suposingly) frank and open FROM were about Dark Souls PC that makes it all a bitter pill to swallow for me
It's like seeing FROM go from friendly indie dev to EA in the matter of one game.
#lighting
#notlightning
Sorry. Anyway, I think it's good to let devs know that we are paying attention. I'm not a fan of all this trickery with graphics and such being downgraded from reveal to release, especially when no answer is given. It would be different if we heard something legitimate, but companies are just throwing PR crap at us instead.
#notlightning
Sorry. Anyway, I think it's good to let devs know that we are paying attention. I'm not a fan of all this trickery with graphics and such being downgraded from reveal to release, especially when no answer is given. It would be different if we heard something legitimate, but companies are just throwing PR crap at us instead.
ToyMachine228
Member
The lighting will be better in the Xbone and PS4 versions that From also said that they havent even considered. Which we now know to be completely untrue as if that wasn't obvious to begin with.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Could help, i'm on digital version and audio works fine, plus laoding screens takes 8 seconds max.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Things to remember since they're points that are probably buried in the massive other thread:
1. Complaining about the lighting doesn't mean someone hates the game.
2. Yes, games change a lot throughout development. However, the previews being show up until January 29th (if I remember right) were shown on PS3 with the same lighting as the TGS build.
3. Graphics aren't the "point" of the game, but considering that A) numerous previews and interviews played up the importance of torches and darkness to the game and B) the remaining sconces that serve no real purpose, it's pretty clear that gutting the lighting system so hastily had a negative effect on the game. Some previous impressions I wrote up:
Sconces and the entire torch mechanic (which is, ironically, the first thing explained by the tutorial) are basically pointless now that shadow shrouds nothing. The real issue here isn't that graphics "downgraded" from reveal to release, but that a change was made that seems hasty and lazy.
1. Complaining about the lighting doesn't mean someone hates the game.
2. Yes, games change a lot throughout development. However, the previews being show up until January 29th (if I remember right) were shown on PS3 with the same lighting as the TGS build.
3. Graphics aren't the "point" of the game, but considering that A) numerous previews and interviews played up the importance of torches and darkness to the game and B) the remaining sconces that serve no real purpose, it's pretty clear that gutting the lighting system so hastily had a negative effect on the game. Some previous impressions I wrote up:
Sconces and the entire torch mechanic (which is, ironically, the first thing explained by the tutorial) are basically pointless now that shadow shrouds nothing. The real issue here isn't that graphics "downgraded" from reveal to release, but that a change was made that seems hasty and lazy.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Half the "reaction" is people disagreeing with the complainers! Not everyone is on the same side on this issue.