How much of a shop are we talking here?
#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
How much of a shop are we talking here?
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Well there you have it. I think some of you guys owe From an apology.
I think on average it is better than Demons/Dark Souls, it frequently goes well above 30 FPS when not much is going on.
Lucent
Member
Yeah, I think that it went form just "We're upset about being lied to." to where suddenly they're noticing things about the game that were in the previous games. I'm not saying the game is without it's flaws (the character creation and menu lag is new to me and very frustrating) but the frame rate seems no different to me than the previous games on PS3.
I would love for this game to look like the April 2013 trailer/demo or whatever, but I'm enjoying the game for what it is right now. I don't think they can fix everything in the PS3/360 version, but I hope they give a thorough explanation and we see a better version for PC (and hopefully PS4/X1).
Maybe my plasma is why I was ok with the ps3 version. I never really had high expectations, just wanted something to hold me over until PC
half price steam/amazon sale. I'm not in a hurry.
EDIT: Switched to vilmer_'s BMP above.
There are three possibilities, here:
1. That 'PC' shot is from an old build which doesn't exist anymore.
2. Someone at Namco/From had fun with Photoshop and it looks completely different in game.
3. That actually is the PC version to be released. The lighting looks SIGNIFICANTLY different from the console version (semi-confirming the lighting is in the PC version?), and also there is MUCH more foliage on the walls, as well as AO and better textures.
Take your pick. Can't wait for From's/Namco's response next week.
One of these things is not like the other.
Actual image for the convenience. Man I really hope this turns out to be true, and he is just not mistaken. If PC version is what we were sold on in 2013, partial faith restored in FROM. That PS3 nonsense is still unacceptable though.
So he is lying right now.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
It's taken straight from the Steam store page, though.
butman
Member
EDIT: Switched to vilmer_'s BMP above.
There are three possibilities, here:
1. That 'PC' shot is from an old build which doesn't exist anymore.
2. Someone at Namco/From had fun with Photoshop and it looks completely different in game.
3. That actually is the PC version to be released. The lighting looks SIGNIFICANTLY different from the console version (semi-confirming the lighting is in the PC version?), and also there is MUCH more foliage on the walls, as well as AO and better textures.
Take your pick. Can't wait for From's/Namco's response next week.
I thinks there's more important images comparaison that shows more differences than this one.
If Bandai CM say that PC will look like the beta ones, i'm sold!
BobTheFork
Member
FUUUUUU these Gargoyles.
I can't summon help either. I can get down to the last two but I never survive.
I can't summon help either. I can get down to the last two but I never survive.
At this point I just want to play the damn game already.
It's not a fix.
it rarely hit 30fps and even less times go some frames above that yet dips below more often.
Lucent
Member
So I jumped in the Metal Gear Ground Zeroes thread and someone posted screenshots of his playthrough from the PS3 version. Nothing spoilery really.
After seeing that, I feel like what they were aiming for with Dark Souls 2 could've been possible. Granted, that's one area in Ground Zeroes, but I'm sure they could've found a way to do that. The team for Metal Gear is probably bigger and probably even has a higher budget so that could factor into it, but it kinda sucks to show something so pretty with the previous lighting system and then be like "ah nevermind we can't figure out how to make that run in a game like this without running into problems."
I know I might seem all over the place, but basically I just like the game but at the same time I feel the same as those upset.
After seeing that, I feel like what they were aiming for with Dark Souls 2 could've been possible. Granted, that's one area in Ground Zeroes, but I'm sure they could've found a way to do that. The team for Metal Gear is probably bigger and probably even has a higher budget so that could factor into it, but it kinda sucks to show something so pretty with the previous lighting system and then be like "ah nevermind we can't figure out how to make that run in a game like this without running into problems."
I know I might seem all over the place, but basically I just like the game but at the same time I feel the same as those upset.
It would be a depressing reality, but I would still play and enjoy the game.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
FOX engine is extremely well done.
swazzyswess
Member
yep. fact.
and after lighting up no man's wharf, this thread went from ridiculous to stunningly dumb.
XANDER CAGE
Member
So I've now cleared the game, pretty much.
There is a huge quality gap between areas of this game. Later areas (post N64 Forest) look fantastic, complete with moody lighting and dynamic shadows and great texture work. Other than the disappointingly gutted mansion, all of the late-game areas look noticeably better and more cohesive than a lot of the early, ugly areas.
I have no idea what to think, honestly. It's so inconsistent. Changes clearly had to be made at the last minute, or a lot of areas were rushed/slapped together.
There is a huge quality gap between areas of this game. Later areas (post N64 Forest) look fantastic, complete with moody lighting and dynamic shadows and great texture work. Other than the disappointingly gutted mansion, all of the late-game areas look noticeably better and more cohesive than a lot of the early, ugly areas.
I have no idea what to think, honestly. It's so inconsistent. Changes clearly had to be made at the last minute, or a lot of areas were rushed/slapped together.
Lasthope106
Member
I'm still going to buy the game because it will run better than the console versions and it's a new Souls game. Plus in time modders will make it better.
Lucent
Member
By N64 Forest do you mean Shaded Woods or whatever? Because yeah that place is kinda disappointing so far. So far that's the only place I haven't really liked the look of. Though I don't understand how places like The Gutter were built if we were being realistic...it's just super long sticks that seem to be endless that support other sticks. Glad I can look forward to the later areas, though.
It really seems like it. Getting those visuals out of the PS3 is crazy, even after seeing what Naughty Dog pulled off.
Which is the opposite of what happened i Dark Souls where the latter areas were rushed.
well it's possible... see GTA5, Sleeping Dogs (yes the console version) The Witcher 2 (not sandbox but open levels) and maybe Just Cause 2.
I'd say it's possible to make it on PS3/360 but From is not a tech savvy studio. Ninja Blade ,Another Century and Armored Core are horrible games tech-wise and with even more awful framerate, they used Sony engine PhyreEngine for Demons and Dark Souls 1. and with DS2 and their new engine From just completely failed to deliver their promises tech-wise.
How so? Not that I doubt you or anything.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Hence the 2500 post thread...
I can't believe I just laughed so hard from something like this.
Necromanti
Member
Did someone post a small boss spoiler in this thread? Random.
Nowhere is safe.
Ignore me, I didn't check those screenshots close enough.
Made a flyby statement while skimming through the thread instead of properly assessing all the available information.
The only thing that really kills this game for me on PS3 is the 25-30 second loading times for everything you do. The horrible lag in streamed assets since Sony still doesn't allow us to fully install games 5 years after Microsoft allowed it on their console.
Even if the PC version looked exactly the same, the 2-5 second load times would make it such a better experience that it's all I really need.
Multiplayer on PS3 physical copy is nearly unplayable because of how often I'm staring at a loading screen.
I'm sure I'd be bummed at first. But no way in hell that is going to stop me of enjoying the game. I'd just look a bit more forward to the bright future of mods, which is one of the great benefits of the platform.
Hell, if I had access to it right now I sure as hell wouldn't be in a thread arguing about image quality. I'd be playing some Dark Souls 2.
Just tweak you TV color setting and it'll be completely different boss...
well it's thread to show the differences in the game and early versions you should've expect spoilers before clicking I guess :/
This is amazing.
Necromanti
Member
I meant the random gargoyles post. I just thought it was funny.
going from this:
to this:
Is a huge difference. The latter does resemble something out of N64 visuals.
So in the retail release the number of monsters went from 3 to 1? wow...
I can't remember how many are actually down there in the final release but it is 2 or 3.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
I'm in this camp. Not sure what this is supposed to achieve? Is it going to help you sleep at night? Are you going to make them promise to patch better graphics in later? Would you like for them to give you discount on a game? Yea i'm just not sure....the game is out, either you enjoy it or you pass it up. If you are dissapointed about the game maybe you should speak with your wallet. If they had revealed this information before the release would/could you have avoided the purchase? Can you not do the same thing now knowing the games has been changed?
I know I do when it comes to EA and Ubisoft games, I don't go on their forums requesting the devs tell me reasons for their decisions, why they keep making generic fps, or why always online never works etc...I just avoid the games untill something I do see appeals to me (hopefully The Division).
So yea not trying to defend Namco or From Software for downgrading before release but this just seems like an exercise in futility and it kinda annoys me that fans expect/demand so much from someone else's creative vision sometimes.
Lucent
Member
If we don't end up having this
on PC then I'm going to commit sudoku.
You're going to solve a puzzle?
Wolfe
Member
My issue is that while I can understand them altering the game so that the torches aren't as necessary I don't understand why the game had to be brightened up to the point of being able to see all of the enemies down an unlit hallway. The character emits a small area of light (as they have in both of the previous games) but now I can see clear into areas that I can tell were intended to be much darker originally. I'm fine with them removing the "doom 3" light/dark aspect by why to these lengths? Just having the surrounding area lit up from your character should have been more than enough. You can bust out the torch to see a little further if you like but if not you won't be severely punished by the lack of immediate light.
As it stands now (from my time with the game) the torch mechanic feels completely worthless. Granted I know that from what others have said there are some areas where it comes in handy and may even be greatly helpful (like with tomb of giants) but it's obvious the game was designed to utilize the dark far more than it currently does over a much larger range of levels.
Zomba13
Member
Well if they do respond then that would mean they heard/listened/were notified of something that people didn't like or had a problem with so hopefully will be aware of such things in the future. It'll also provide clarity (hopefully) on whether the PC version was also downgraded along with the console versions and hopefully contain a reason why it was (performance issues/never intended to look like trailers/was too hard for the babbys so needed to make everything gray).
I thought that stuff like this didn't really matter, but people can be very loud when they want to.
Get to the Gutter. Then tell me that the torch mechanic is worthless with a straight face.
CuckFupertino
Banned
1. Yes, I am suggesting you should have expected the game to look materially different from its marketing footage. If you follow the video game industry at all you ought to know that when a multi-plat game launches with a PC counter-part, publishers are going to show you the game running on something like the this - an unbelievably overpowered computer than less than 1% of their audience has access to. Unless FROM/Namco/whatever press was covering the event explicitly stated that the game was running on a PS3 or Xbox 360, you should have assumed it was not.
Why? Because that is how it's always been. Publishers always show their games off running on the best possible hardware, in the best possible scenarios. Do I wish FROM or Namco would sit down and give us a Digital Foundry-esque comparison of the game on each platform? Hell yes I do! I'm a consumer, just like you. Is that ever going to happen? Hell no! I'm not apologizing for FROM or Namco, or the video game industry in general. I'm just saying you should have seen this coming, because it's happened so many times in the past.
2. I'm not putting the "onus" on anyone. I'm saying there isn't even an onus. I'm saying it's a non-issue that you're inflating on an internet message board. I'm not claiming you should be savvy enough to learn from patterns and history, and come to a conclusion on your own that DS2 was never going to look as good as it did during previews. What I'm saying is that if you were naive enough not to do any of that, you shouldn't come on to a message board and throw a temper tantrum.
3. Let's not assume anything. I do believe what I'm saying. Does your belief in conspiracy go so far as to think I'm some part of an undercover hearts-and-minds campaign by FROM/Namco?
4. I have two responses to your last paragraph. First, if you're going to get upset with anyone over this, it should be the so-called journos covering previews of these games. They are the ones with access to these publishers and developers, and they should be asking questions like, "Hmm, is this game running on a super-computer, or a crusty old Xbox 360?" Second, in an age where big publishers like EA force press to review games (Titanfall, Sim City) in sterile, controlled environments, and in an age where Twitch has grown to epic proportions, why would you purchase a video game based solely on the preview footage you saw online, or had described to you? Next time, do the smart thing and wait and see for yourself. Or, go ask for a refund if you think you got short changed.
Trying to figure out what you guys are talking about with being able to see enemies in the dark without needing light. Walking through No-Man's Wharf and I couldn't see jack. Maybe you guys have the brightness on your TVs/in-game bright brightness too high? Or maybe mine is low, but it sure helped to have a torch to see. It wasn't Tomb of Giants dark, but still didn't allow me to see very well.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
That is a good point. I agree that I would've preferred the game much darker, because the first 4-5 hours of gameplay I was constantly fiddling with my tv's video settings so that the picture did not looked washed out or too dark. It took me ages (4-5 hours lol) to find the right settings for the picture and I still think it looks a bit grey in some areas.
Neither of these things would've affected my purchase but atleast now I know why the textures/colours look a little odd at times. I do find the cloth and lighting in this game amazing though when it is on display. Love walking towards the bonfire in a small room i.e. Blue Cathedral and watching my shadow grow to fill the room lol.
XANDER CAGE
Member
So one short area where they're necessary? Totally seems like something they'd dedicate the first tutorial in the game to. Wrap it up, mystery solved!
Tomb of the Giants in DaS needed a torch too, and that was without FROM talking up any lighting features. The Gutter doesn't explain these changes at all.
swazzyswess
Member
Unfortunately the #YOULIED crowd has already decided that TV settings should have nothing to do with it and this game is only worth $10 in a Steam sale.
Did you light up NMW yet? One of the two ways to light it up, I mean. It looks so cool by the end...
Garcia
Member
I haven't seen so much damage control in any other thread before. I really can't believe people give FROM a pass and ignore all the problems that are abundant in this game.
By giving a compromised product (bug ridden, glitched, inconsistent) high scores and overwhelming praise you are actually sending the wrong message to the developer. You're telling them: -Hey, it's ok, you can ship as much crap as you want and we won't complain because we seriously don't want the series to keep improving.-
You are, in fact, doing more damage to the saga when you decide to ignore all of the problems that many people keep finding during their playthroughs. I'm shocked to read some people actually think that the developers are going to get depressed by such a huge amount of backslash. . . My god, guys. You either have to emotionally detach yourselves from your games or get a more critic eye.
We expected a much better product than what we got. The PS3 disc version of the game is a fucking mess and the problems are everywhere to be found. The game as a whole wasn't supposed to be shipped in its current state; it lacks cohesion, visual consistency, optimization and several other things that were either trimmed down or completely overlooked during development.
Thanks to all the people who have been complaining we are now probably going to get an official announcement from BAMCO/FROM. We are close to this because of the whiners and not because of the apologists.
I will only speak for myself here: I wanted this game to have excellent quality instead of being just an average looking game with excellent gameplay.
mickcenary
Member
My *ever so slight* problem with this thread is that the deceit/bait-and-switch/whatever have you has taken the limelight so much so, that a lot of people are - either willfully or ignorantly - missing the simple fact that DSII is a great looking game and an improvement over its predecessor (in my opinion, of course).
In no way will I excuse From/Bamco's actions here, but as someone who now cares little of the politics herein and is currently enjoying the crap out of the game, I can tell you that the images being bandied about in here are hardly indicative. The game is a gorgeous amalgamation of tech and artistry.
In no way will I excuse From/Bamco's actions here, but as someone who now cares little of the politics herein and is currently enjoying the crap out of the game, I can tell you that the images being bandied about in here are hardly indicative. The game is a gorgeous amalgamation of tech and artistry.