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[ugh_the_boot]

I think there is a problem with advertising in general but I also think a majority of this has to do with gaming culture. Gamers tend to jump in head first then ask questions later. If you are easily affected by changes or corporate BS then I think it would be in your best interests to wait untill a product is released and then maybe check out some reviews or technical breakdowns before handing over your cash for it.

If you are going into something before the final product has been released then you do so at your own risk. For example how many times have you seen a movie trailer only for the final movie to completely omit this scene from the production?

Again I am not trying to defend anyone here, I would much rather the companies be 100% honest about what is coming out but you have to look at it as just advertising and many companies from many different industries are quilty of it. I understand the gaming medium is very different in that developers, publishers and consumers are interacting directly with each other about many of the products and it's features but in the end all of these companies are out there to look after their botton line and getting too invloved with an idea of something can really only lead to disapointment. There can be no harm from waiting until a product has been release before investing in it and in future if this sort of thing bothers you too much you should expect the worst or atleast research it.

 

[GreatestHits]

Well said Garcia. I know how one can fall into an apologist mentality. Those that are doing so need to realize it and quit posting that blind eye bullshit and help us get some screenshots together. There is no argument here, bamco is readying a statement. This game was pushed out before they could figure out how to technically pull this off. Hell it was released before they even figured out how to solidly downgrade it. If that isnt obvious to anyone in the thread then go play the game and enjoy it, but we are busy voicing legitamate unrest about this mess of a build.

We need more comparison shots and less back and forth between the fanboys and the outspoken. The comparison shots are what will solidify the awareness of this debacle

 

[MogCakes]

Just to clarify for some of you, From Software is the developer, Bamco is the publisher.

 

[mickcenary]

The PS3 disc version of the game is a fucking mess and the problems are everywhere to be found.

To what extent? Honest question.

I have the game installed on 360 and any problems have been largely infrequent/imperceptible. Slaughters DS1 in the frame-rate department.

 

[GreatestHits]

My *ever so slight* problem with this thread is that the deceit/bait-and-switch/whatever have you has taken the limelight so much so, that a lot of people are - either willfully or ignorantly - missing the simple fact that DSII is a great looking game and an improvement over its predecessor (in my opinion, of course).

This thread has nothing to do with how great DS2 is though. Theres an OT for that. And its hard to call a game great when it runs like its on an underspecced PC

 

[SkullHydra]

To what extent? Honest question.

I have the game installed on 360 and any problems have been largely infrequent/imperceptible. Slaughters DS1 in the frame-rate department.

I have slight-ish frame rate issues, menu and button lag, some weird hit detection, running and rolling occasionally not working correctly (And getting me killed), etc.

I love it, but this game really needs more polish. =/

 

[mickcenary]

I have slight-wish frame rate issues, menu and button lag, some weird hit detection, running and rolling occasionally not working correctly (And getting me killed), etc.

I love it, but this game really needs more polish. =/

I seldom have an issue where the sprint won't kick in when I think it should, but I've just assumed it was an underlying nuance in the stamina mechanic. Hmm.

 

[Totobeni]

Just to clarify for some of you, From Software is the developer, Bamco is the publisher.

and From is the IP owner and the game publisher in Japan.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

To what extent? Honest question.

I have the game installed on 360 and any problems have been largely infrequent/imperceptible. Slaughters DS1 in the frame-rate department.

I have the Ps3 version and have put in about 30 hours and I have not noticed a single glitch, crash or any sort of bug for that matter. The only thing I could possibly complain about is that some of the darker areas come off looking a little grey or washed out but again these are isolated incidents/areas and does in no way affect gameplay.

 

[Garcia]

To what extent? Honest question.

I have the game installed on 360 and any problems have been largely infrequent/imperceptible. Slaughters DS1 in the frame-rate department.

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

 

[Lucent]

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/commit-sudoku

lol first time I've seen anybody do this.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

For the love of christ, HOW DO YOU EQUIP A TORCH?
I collected 6 of them, & my torch count is 35 minutes in the menu, BUT HOW DO I EQUIP ONE?

I been trying the past 2 hours to confirm if the lighting is completely removed from the torch, but can't find jack on how to test it so far!
I been through every menu & every option at the bonfire.
What am I missing.


ALSO is there a way to start a new game while still keeping your old progress?
I want to take pics at the start of the game.
Didn't Dark Souls 1 have some funky system where you could only have one character/save file at any one time?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

For the love of christ, HOW DO YOU EQUIP A TORCH?
I collected 6 of them, & my torch count is 35 minutes in the menu, BUT HOW DO I EQUIP ONE?

I been trying the past 2 hours to confirm if the lighting is completely removed from the torch, but can't find jack on how to test it so far!
I been through every menu & every option at the bonfire.
What am I missing.


ALSO is there a way to start a new game while still keeping your old progress?
I want to take pics at the start of the game.
Didn't Dark Souls 1 have some funky system where you could only have one character/save file at any one time?

You have to actually be near a bonfire/lit sconce or use a flaming butterfly.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

For the love of christ, HOW DO YOU EQUIP A TORCH?
I collected 6 of them, & my torch count is 35 minutes in the menu, BUT HOW DO I EQUIP ONE?

I been trying the past 2 hours to confirm if the lighting is completely removed from the torch, but can't find jack on how to test it so far!
I been through every menu & every option at the bonfire.
What am I missing.


ALSO is there a way to start a new game while still keeping your old progress?
I want to take pics at the start of the game.
Didn't Dark Souls 1 have some funky system where you could only have one character/save file at any one time?

Go to a bonfire or lit sconce and press triangle (or Y on 360). Should switch to light torch option.

 

[Alucrid]

If we don't end up having this

on PC then I'm going to commit sudoku.

lol, just ran through this area today. looks nothing like that.

 

[SpokkX]

It's not a fix.



it rarely hit 30fps and even less times go some frames above that yet dips below more often.

Yeah framerate is worse on average than ds1 ps3. It is rarely even 30. This is not an opinion, it is fact.

Anyone saying different can probably not really "see" framerates. I bet some of you also think 30/60 does not matter

 

[Jack cw]

When could we expect to see some PC footage?

 

[mickcenary]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

My Lord (of Cinder)...

That's rough, dude. Sorry to hear.

I can honestly tell you that 95% of what's on that list has not occurred in my game. Load times are very swift on my end; well, insofar that I've paid them no attention whatsoever. The installation does wonders, it seems.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

When could we expect to see some PC footage?

April 25th, most likely.

 

[mickcenary]

EDIT: Apologies! Stupid cellular connection.

 

[CountAntonius]

My *ever so slight* problem with this thread is that the deceit/bait-and-switch/whatever have you has taken the limelight so much so, that a lot of people are - either willfully or ignorantly - missing the simple fact that DSII is a great looking game and an improvement over its predecessor (in my opinion, of course).

In no way will I excuse From/Bamco's actions here, but as someone who now cares little of the politics herein and is currently enjoying the crap out of the game, I can tell you that the images being bandied about in here are hardly indicative. The game is a gorgeous amalgamation of tech and artistry.

I dislike how opinions like this are thrown under the bus as "apologists" because he sees the game differently from others. It's almost like if you aren't holding a pitchfork you are some blinded corporate slave. I think there is too much labeling foing on in here.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

My *ever so slight* problem with this thread is that the deceit/bait-and-switch/whatever have you has taken the limelight so much so, that a lot of people are - either willfully or ignorantly - missing the simple fact that DSII is a great looking game and an improvement over its predecessor (in my opinion, of course).

In no way will I excuse From/Bamco's actions here, but as someone who now cares little of the politics herein and is currently enjoying the crap out of the game, I can tell you that the images being bandied about in here are hardly indicative. The game is a gorgeous amalgamation of tech and artistry.

It stands to reason that the topic the thread was created to discuss should "take the limelight," no?

I don't think many people are saying the game is bad, just that the switch is disappointing and that the visuals are inconsistent at best, perhaps because of the change.

 

[Zomba13]

My *ever so slight* problem with this thread is that the deceit/bait-and-switch/whatever have you has taken the limelight so much so, that a lot of people are - either willfully or ignorantly - missing the simple fact that DSII is a great looking game and an improvement over its predecessor (in my opinion, of course).

In no way will I excuse From/Bamco's actions here, but as someone who now cares little of the politics herein and is currently enjoying the crap out of the game, I can tell you that the images being bandied about in here are hardly indicative. The game is a gorgeous amalgamation of tech and artistry.

I think the thing is that people are getting sick of misleading previews, screenshots, trailers and the like and Dark Souls 2 is a hyped up game that has just come out and is the things we're latching onto as a way to get the point across and get answers.

It's become so common place to release bullshots and misleading video of games that some people are defending it and it's just at the point where we're sick of it. Sick of it from FROM/Bamco, sick of it from Ubisoft, sick of it from Sony, sick of it from Capcom etc.

DS2 is probably very good (waiting for the PC version) and probably looks fine on consoles but doesn't look like what was shown in any previous trailer/video. No one here cares how good or bad the actual game is, just how different it is from what we were shown and why.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Took some shakey cam videos & pics, will post in a few minutes.

 

[jacksepticeye]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

Disc user here too and I agree with all of this. Shit's ridiculous at times. I've gotten killed many times because of delayed reactions to button presses

 

[TrueMenace]

If you guys follow A German Spy on YouTube who is doing a walkthrough of Dark Souls 2, you will understand what happened. First off, A German Spy (AGS) co-wrote the guide along with EpicNameBro (ENB) and said that at one point during a version of the de-bug build he played the game had better visuals, BUT the framerate was in the single digits most of the time. The next version they got (was the retail version) had downgraded visuals but a steady 30 fps.

Edit:

Here is the video with a jump to where he talks about how the framerate was improved.

http://youtu.be/_tbLxKKCNQM?t=1h52s

Just wanna add to what I already said...

FromSoftware said that the PC is their lead platform remember? So what was stated above, I'm assuming that they realized they couldn't target the PC graphics for the last-gen consoles and had to downgrade them VERY LATE INTO DEVELOPMENT. ENB did say that the definitive version of DaS2 will be on PC and that AGS interpreted something from FromSoft devs that PC users will be able to utilize all their power for DaS2.

Honestly, just listen to that clip.

tl:dr: THERE IS HOPE!

 

[BigDug13]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

It's completely baffling to me that 5 years after MS allowed full game installs to the HDD, Sony STILL does not give us that option on PS3. I mean what's the deal? I should have the option to install the games, just like the PS3 is already capable of doing as evidenced by being forced to fully install 2 of the 3 games on the AC Ezio Trilogy disc.

It's obviously a priority enough to make it mandatory on PS4, so why do we still have to suffer with all of the above issues because they refuse to let us install?

It's probably one of my biggest issues with the PS3 and one area where Microsoft's console stomps all over the PS3.

 

[SkullHydra]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
  [*]Flickering shadows and light sources.
  [*]Out of sync sound effects.
  [*]Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
  [*]Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
  [*]Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
  [*]Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
  [*]Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

Yeah, I've had all of the bolded problems. I also had a boss attack and kill me through a fog gateway yesterday. >_>

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Ok this is the Reveal capture

This is my crappy capture, after using the correct color range for the game.

(I couldn't get the camera to get the correct color accuracy & shadow detail to what was shown exactly).

This is the only pic I took that was an actual representation of what I see on my TV.

Same shadow detail & lighting conditions (torches are lit).
Compare to the reveal screens

Reveal/Beta gif:

My crappy gif of the same place (again, couldn't get the camera to capture the right colors, the walls look yellow on the TV).

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Here are the pics stacked against earlier pics

Reveal pic

My pic

Incorrect color range pic

The lighting from the beta

IS EXACTLY the same as what I seen in my game!

THIS is the results from the wrong color range

From the very first reveal footage

The walls have a wet reflective sheen to them, this is not in the final game.
The radiant light around your character is much smaller than it is in the final game.
The outline of the doorway is definitely different, downgraded or simply asset artstyle change (notice it is just a hole in the wall & is later changed to a openable door)?

 

[CountAntonius]

Reveal footage was never used past the reveal. Not sure why we are still comparing to that. That was never going to make it to current gen consoles. The new build with lighting effects should be the focus, that's the one they have been advertising.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Ok this is the Reveal capture

This is my crappy capture, after using the correct color range for the game.

(I couldn't get the camera to get the correct color accuracy & shadow detail to what was shown exactly).

From what i could tell (other than the uglier reused texture palette), the original pic looks like the pillars are illuminated from what would normally be illuminated if I was carrying a torch with me (which I wasn't).
The scale of the lighting might have been pulled back, but it can be recreated.

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
  [*]Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)

• 
  
  FYI I timed the loading between bonfires & on the Xbox 360, it was 8 seconds.

 

[Metalingus5150]

There has been a downgrade, it's been posted time and time and again. It isn't incorrect color range.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

There has been a downgrade, it's been posted time and time and again. It isn't incorrect color range.

Downgraded from the reveal version, yes! Mostly, different assets were used in the final game that artistically look worse.

From the beta, NO! The RBG range is defaulted incorrectly.

 

[Durante]

This is my crappy capture, after using the correct color range for the game.

It really bothers me that you are calling the incorrect color range the correct color range.

Again, the fact that direct framegrabs of the console version do absolutely have 0-15 and 235-255 values demonstrates irrefutably that the game doesn't have any problems with color range, and that what you are doing actually loses detail.

Edit:
To clarify, it's totally fine if you prefer the way the game looks with parts of its dynamic range chopped off. It's not fine to spread misinformation.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Downgraded from the reveal version, yes! Mostly, different assets were used in the final game that artistically look worse.

From the beta, NO! The RBG range is defaulted incorrectly.

Downgraded from the version they showed in january of this year..

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

It really bothers me that you are calling the incorrect color range the correct color range.

Again, the fact that direct framegrabs of the console version do absolutely have 0-15 and 235-255 values demonstrates irrefutably that the game doesn't have any problems with color range, and that what you are doing actually loses detail.

Edit:
To clarify, it's totally fine if you prefer the way the game looks with parts of its dynamic range chopped off. It's not fine to spread misinformation.

What? no. Do you even have the game?

The game at default is not able to display a full black (red at 0, green at 0 & blue at 0).
The color will be a light grey no matter where you are in the game, including the menus & title screen.

The black bars during the initial cinematic is absolute proof of this.
Unless FromSoftware intended 2.39:1 black bars to be charcoal grey & not black.

 

[Ellite25]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

i can't tell if we're playing the same game.

I haven't had much slow down (it's in the 20s at times, but totally playable). The load times can be long, but it honestly isn't something that bothers me.

Overall I don't have many problems. I'm loving the game so far.

 

[Durante]

What? no. Do you even have the game?

No. I have just opened a single direct feed capture someone posted, and found color values up to 250 and down to 7 in that. That is already 100% proof the game isn't outputting limited range (which goes from 15-235).

 

[mickcenary]

It stands to reason that the topic the thread was created to discuss should "take the limelight," no?

I don't think many people are saying the game is bad, just that the switch is disappointing and that the visuals are inconsistent at best, perhaps because of the change.

Yeah, no disagreement on that. It's more that I've lurked in here for a while and the amount of 'preorder canceled' or similar knee-jerk - and frankly, pretty silly - comments is what irks me, because in its own bubble, devoid of all of this, DSII is just fine. Unfortunately, From/Bamco were anything but transparent. The doomsayers and apologists are just as bad as each other. My take: be disappointed, even angry; and yes, demand some answers if you want them, but don't let it affect your desire to play. I mean, this shouldn't be that important for any game, let alone a Souls game.

The greater issue of developer deceit is definitely very important, though, so if this scares a few devs to pull their head in a bit, then I'm fine with it.

 

[Foaloal]

What? no. Do you even have the game?

The game at default is not able to display a full black (red at 0, green at 0 & blue at 0).
The color will be a light grey no matter where you are in the game, including the menus & title screen.

The black bars during the initial cinematic is absolute proof of this.
Unless FromSoftware intended 2.39:1 black bars to be charcoal grey & not black.

Do you know for a 100% fact that your television/monitor is set up to properly display a full range? It seems likely to me that your TV might be the thing that is responsible for those black bars being grey, and not the game.

 

[Anteater]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread and I was looking at screenshots awhile ago on google and found these old shots:

I thought I'd post a few here for better comparison, since I thought it's kind of hard to tell what's in the old build from just the video caps the last few pages.

Think they are from april of last year:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/11/dark-souls-ii-will-focus-on-freedom-and-accessibility-looks-gorgeous/

 

[CountAntonius]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread and I was looking at screenshots awhile ago on google and found these old shots:



I thought I'd post a few here for better comparison, since I thought it's kind of hard to tell what's in the old build from just the video caps the last few pages.

This could have been if it was next gen PC only.

 

[Metalingus5150]

This could have been if it was next gen PC only.

That hardly looks next gen.

 

[CountAntonius]

That hardly looks next gen.

It's From Software not Sony Santa Monica we're talking about.

 

[Tilian]

After playing 30 hours this week I think I'm done and am just going to wait for PC.

I can deal with the nerfed sluggish move sets but the menu lag and crap hit detection is getting to me and I want to enjoy the latter half without this bullshit.

My Uchi when double handed misses enemies so frequent it's not funny.

Count me an another displeased longtime From supporter.

 

[Foaloal]

That hardly looks next gen.

I don't think that's relevant to the point he was making. It would have been possible for the game to look like that if it had been on next gen consoles and PC only. Because they had to make some sacrifices to get it running on the now last gen consoles PC gamers may have missed out on what could have been a nicer looking game.

At least we're at the point now where for the most part crossgen games can perform the same gameplay wise, so nothing had to be sacrificed there (not counting the torch mechanics which could be argued to be part of the atmosphere/graphics more than the gameplay).

 

[Raide]

I am watching ENB's playthrough and there are some nice zones and there are some rough looking ones. Also, there are some areas that the torch would be useful if they dropped the ambient light that players cast. Never really understood why they have that in. Is it lighting the character model and then projecting outside?

 

[Persona7]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
  [*]Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
  [*]Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

I am playing the same version as you and only experienced the bolded.

 

[Eusis]

O____O

Yeah this game was not ready to ship.

This is probably the most PS1 like (or at least late 90s game in general) this gets, those kind of repeated textures that are usually avoided now or at least not as blatantly obvious. It's actually kind of charming in a way, but you probably have to go in with the approach this is more like a niche, low budget JRPG (which it may still be even with the Namco marketing push.)