Why Platformers struggle today

A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Because they are hardcore games.
Really. Not "core" in the sense of "core vs casual", a claim that became popular durin the HD era, but hardcore games in terms of classic "old fashioned" play patterns.

Despite their (usually) cartoon style (think about Rayman, DK, Sonic...) they often present and provide a tough time in being played and enjoyed.

Let me explain.
I've recently played:

Rayman Legends
Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
Sonic Lost World

In different ways, all those games were hard to finish.

Rayman Legends wasn't so hard in terms of being able to reach the goal (end of level), but asked you to collect various elements on during the level in order to unlock the next worlds. In the end, I was stuck unable to unlock the last world. It's not that it is impossible, but considering the few spare time I have and other games available, I dint' have the will to complete it. And I really liked the game!

DKTF: I've found this game easier than DKCR, but still...some part were really hard. In particular, I've tried several times to beat the final world 6 boss, but was unable to do it. I'me quite sure that I could finish the game (I've memorize its attack patterns and so on), but being forced to re-play all the segment, and even being forced to go back and collect more coins to buy potions or something like that, somehow annoied me. And I think that the game is GREAT, really.

Sonic Lost World: I don't understand the mixed reactions this game created: to me is a really good Sonic game. But, I have to admit it: I absolutely hate the world 7 (the Laav one), because of that infamous 7-2 track level. Trial&error without any hope to me to be beaten...I was losing my sanity trying to beat it...once again, nothing impossible, but trying and trying and trying...several times, without the chance to go ahead in the game without challanging this tough level toned me down..


If I think about other games I've recently finished, and commonly accepted as gret nowadays, I think that in the platforming play pattern/structure there is one of the main problem this genre is facing in the actual market.

On one side, they usually present a cartoonish style:

rayman-legends-screenshot.jpg

donkeykong-country-tropical-freeze.jpg

Anton_in_Sonic_Lost_World.jpg
Click to expand...

But on the other side, they offer a challenge way harder than other "mature" games (( don't want to name them because I know that people would start some sort of war between The last of us and Sonic, pointing at the first as the way superior game: which is not my point, actually)

If I think about a lot of "cinematic experience" that are so popular today (and that I LIKE, just to be clear) I think that platformers as the three I cited have various aspects more challenging:

- trial&error based: you actually have to die to discover the level and avoid obstacles
- no "difficulty" level: you can't tone down the difficulty of the game at the beginning nor have the chance to tone it down during a particular segment
- no "hints" hud-text: the games don't "talk to you" in any way; you have to understand them on your own
- no "regenerating health bar" or other helps used in other genres (you have to fight for an additional "hearts" or "ring" for example)

I also think that this contraddiction between cartoonish look and actual touch gameplay is one of the reason why this genre struggles today against other kind of games.

What do you think?
Should Platforming genre look for compromise (something like the Mario Super Guide, maybe? or a difficulty setting level?) in order to find a wider audience? Should they change the usually cartoonish approach in order to attract more adult costumers, that maybe can sustain a more challenging play pattern?

Or should they continue being what they are today, even risking extinction?

Btw, I'm under stress for my job, so after those three platformers I'm starting Tomb raider on PS3 ;p
 
Being old-school and very difficult hasn't stopped the Souls games from being very successful. The reality is that people are likely just burnt out on platformers. They were basically the go to genre during the 32 bit era, they fell off a bit in the PS2 gen and then saw some new life last gen. I don't think it's any different than how fighting games have once again dropped off in popularity.
 
Rayman Legends is the only one of those I played, but I loved it. It was challenging in places but not overly so (that last level can fuck all the way off though).

I think it's just the fact that they lost their crown to the shooters. Back in the day, the platformer was the go-to genre. Nowadays it's the shooter, though it looks like this gen will drift towards to open-world game as its big thing.

Still hoping for some good platformers on the Xbone though. Banjo would be baller.
 
I think it's because they're not good on the 'mature' platforms.

I honestly can't think of a single 2D platformer on PS3 I like, the 360 has N+ and Super Meat Boy though.
 
They have devalued because you can honestly buy lots of quality platformers for 2 bucks.

They are the genre of choice for many indies it seems.
 
I have them all, but I have yet to play Sonic or Donkey Kong. Rayman Legends wasn't that hard. I can only think of two stages I had to replay in order to get a gold trophy. Even the invasion levels didn't take more than a few tries to get gold trophies on.
 
Rayman Legends was actually the game that brought back my love for Platformers, I had such a blast playing this with a friend who isn't really gamer.

So no, they shouldn't be easier, I like a good challenge.
 
Platformer is actually one of the most profitable genres, but Nintendo makes the best sellers. NSBW sold like 25-30 million.
 
As someone who thoroughly enjoyed Lost World, I do agree with you on Lava Mountain (a shame, considering I was HYPED for that world pre-release). The funny thing is, Sonic's Twitter & FB pages give more useful tips to playing Lost World that aren't even mentioned in the actual game.

I get that they don't want intrusive tutorials, but a game with a completely new gameplay style & mechanics should at least have an optional tutorial level in Windy Hill, or at least have the game tell us more tips on the GamePad.

Back to your point, the Question Mark Hints in Lost World are definitely a step in the right direction towards less intuitive help, but as I stated earlier, it needs to tells us more about the mechanics, maybe even some pro tips to help us finish the stage faster.

I'll get back to you guys once I get through Tropical Freeze.
 
Ah, I see the comforting generation 7 kool-aid of "Financial Failure <-----harder--------easier-----> Financial Success" still has sway over the self-deluded even after the generation ended.
 
I've mostly just gotten burnt out on them over the years, and as I've gotten older and less patient/more stressed, I just don't really enjoy challenging games much.

I'm more into narrative driven stuff where I can get lost in exploring the world and advancing the plot without a lot of frustration.

I bought a Wii U last fall mostly out of nostalgia and did have some fun with NSMBU and SM3DW. I beat both, but gave up on the extra worlds. I'm trying to sell the Wii U now as I just don't have the time/interest for it anymore after getting a Vita and PS4 recently. Nintendo's gameplay first games just don't do that much for me anymore. Though I'll keep my 3DS around to get a Nintendo fix here and there.
 
I think the genre is actually doing really well these days, lots of titles to choose from and many of them are of very high quality. Platformers just don't seem to get a lot of media coverage is all.
 
A big problem I have with them, is that as much shit FPS games get for being "one in the same", platformers repeat in spades. I love side scrolling games, but actual "platformers" come in waves for me, I just can't see it as a genre I invest too heavily in, I dunno.
 
StuBurns said:
I think it's because they're not good on the 'mature' platforms.

I honestly can't think of a single 2D platformer on PS3 I like, the 360 has N+ and Super Meat Boy though.
Click to expand...

Rayman Origins is good. Legends too, but not as much.

Other than that, yea there's no good platformers on PS3. Jak 1 HD if we can count that :3
 
ChronotriggerJM said:
A big problem I have with them, is that as much shit FPS games get for being "one in the same", platformers repeat in spades. I love side scrolling games, but actual "platformers" come in waves for me, I just can't see it a genre I invest too heavily in, I dunno.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I'll keep investing though as long as the 'price continues to be right'.
 
I don't think 2D platformers struggle because their difficulty level. What happens is we see less of them than in the 8-16bit era because obviously 2D platformers were born from a technical limitation that no longer exists, it's only natural there are not as many as before.
 
There is no cause for alarm and they can afford to keep being as they are. Also Super Guide being there or not doesn't matter to people who have no interest in them in the first place.
 
TrueGrime said:
I agree with this. I'll keep investing though as long as the 'price continues to be right'.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's kind of where I'm at, I feel bad for Rayman Legends, but when they tried to sell it to me for $60 I just kind of scoffed. I'm just not sure it's a genre that should be that expensive.

I impulse buy them and sadly rarely get around to playing them.
 
Platformers, especially the cartoony ones, are still my favorite games.

I really don't think difficulty is a factor. Their poor performance is linked to something far more superficial: their cartoony appearance.

Now in my thirties, I grew up on them. As a guy who is still happy to maintain a childlike outlook on the world, I love the creativity they convey. Younger gamers, and those who have lost that naivete, often want to appear grown up and downplay the genre as being "kiddie." That narrow-mindedness really limits their appeal and make them a tough sell for both developers and publishers.

I've worked in retail. It's saddening to see kids come in and tell me they want Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto. It's even sadder to recommend something like Ratchet & Clank only to be told by some 10 year old that its for babies. I pity anyone with that mindset.
 
I think platforming games are made for those people who have enough experience to handle the higher difficulty levels in the first place, even if the lighthearted art styles suggests otherwise. Also, I'm not so sure they are struggling. The Wii U is struggling and happens to be home to a lot of the most notable platformers, so in that way I suppose they aren't doing well by association, but at the same time, they seem to be a popular genre choice among indie devs. It's hard to say for sure though. Whatever the case, keep em' coming I say! It was the genre that made me fall in love with gaming in the first place, and I've really been enjoying this sort of rebirth we've been experiencing over the last five or so years.
 
It is the new world brought by the indies. Games either have to be super easy and tell some emotional story usually with someone who dies OR games have to be super crushingly hard. There can be no in between these days.
 
ChronotriggerJM said:
Yeah that's kind of where I'm at, I feel bad for Rayman Legends, but when they tried to sell it to me for $60 I just kind of scoffed. I'm just not sure it's a genre that should be that expensive.

I impulse buy them and sadly rarely get around to playing them.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that RL was a $60 game. I thought it was $40! Even so, there are plenty of interesting indie platformers out there that play well, are fun, and are beautiful to look at for mere dollars compared to the big name ones. I think in terms of a game like RL, Sonic, etc.. we're paying that much for the brand.
 
I think sonic has an entire other issue with thematics that I can't really delve into untill more non nintendo sonic games and data happen. There are some thoughts coming out of the sonic community and unlike these usual these thoughts are well thought out and come from calm voices of reason.

So imma just leave it at , I think its the wii u and an internal sonic problem in sonic's case.
 
We're living through a golden age of high-quality platformers, but they'll never be consistent million sellers because they are a now a niche product.

Seriously, since the past gen started we've had:

New Super Mario Bros. series
Super Mario Galaxy series
Super Mario 3D Land/World
Rayman Origins/Legends
DKCR/Tropical Freeze
Outland
Mark of the Ninja
Runner series
Sonic Colors/Lost World
A Boy and his Blob
Wario Land Shake It!
Kirby's Epic Yarn/RtDL
Shadow Complex
Strider reboot
Super Meat Boy
Motherfucking SPELUNKY
La Mulana
Braid
Yoshi's New Island/DS
Bloodrayne Betrayal
Aliens Infestation
Lost In Shadow
World Gone Sour
'Splosion Man/Ms. 'Splosion Man
etc etc etc

...and that's not even counting all of the HD remakes/Virtual Console rereleases/collections of classic platformers. I'm sure I left out a ton, too.

I think people are just getting tired the genre all over again. It kind of went away during gen 6 but came back with a fucking vengeance since.
 
I think it's got more to do with the titles mentioned in the OP being Wii U exclusives (we all know what's up with that), and Rayman having the worst possible timing release-wise.

Even so, the Mario titles (Super Luigi U included) have been doing pretty damn well for the console's current state.
 
Wozman23 said:
Platformers, especially the cartoony ones, are still my favorite games.

I really don't think difficulty is a factor. Their poor performance is linked to something far more superficial: their cartoony appearance.

Now in my thirties, I grew up on them. As a guy who is still happy to maintain a childlike outlook on the world, I love the creativity they convey. Younger gamers, and those who have lost that naivete, often want to appear grown up and downplay the genre as being "kiddie." That narrow-mindedness really limits their appeal and make them a tough sell for both developers and publishers.

I've worked in retail. It's saddening to see kids come in and tell me they want Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto. It's even sadder to recommend something like Ratchet & Clank only to be told by some 10 year old that its for babies. I pity anyone with that mindset.
Click to expand...

I will admit I think this has more to do with it than challenge level, and I know I am guilty of this (it is harder to get me to try a cartoony game then one with more serious graphics. But also, I like a game that simulates more realistic in general and you can't get that with a platformer, especially a 2D). I mean I can play some games that don't have realistic style graphics (I loved Okami partly cause of the art style), but it has to have an art style that appeals to me. And that is a lot harder to attain cause that's all very personal and what appeals to one person may not to another (and for me, cartoony kid like does not appeal at all. Admittedly it is one of the problems I have with Nintendo games).

And honestly, I think it's a little unfair to claim that people are being bad cause they have preference for different art styles than you (I'm sure you have styles you don't care for). No, I don't like happy cheerful art style (unless it's something like Full Metal Alchemist where the cheery art style serves to actually help enhance the dark story by really adding contrast). I like more depressing/gritty feel. I am a sucker for post apocalyptic games. And I do prefer my game feel more like I am playing a story vs. the story being the excuse behind the game (and it's hard to do that with a platformer because the way it's formatted it's not going to be realistic in any sort of way).

And honestly I only have limited time/money so I'm going to gravitate towards the games that already seem appealing to me.

But, I'll also admit I loved Rayman Origins when I got it for free with PS+ on my Vita. And I never would have picked up that game cause the art style did turn me off. So there is also the point that you can find a game enjoyable even if the art style doesn't appeal to you. That being said, I'm not really looking for many platformer experiences so it's not likely I'll keep picking them up. One or two is fine with me (I prefer different style games, RPGs are what I tend to gravitate to... and seeing my preferences, is it hard to see why ;)?).
 
TrueGrime said:
I wasn't aware that RL was a $60 game. I thought it was $40! Even so, there are plenty of interesting indie platformers out there that play well, are fun, and are beautiful to look at for mere dollars compared to the big name ones. I think in terms of a game like RL, Sonic, etc.. we're paying that much for the brand.
Click to expand...

I might be mis-remembering, but I could have sworn it was $60 at launch. Eh regardless, the indie scene is breaking up the reliance on high budget platformers because they're a very accessible genre for small teams, so they're blowing up on the indie scene and saturating the market.
 
Aostia said:
Despite their (usually) cartoon style (think about Rayman, DK, Sonic...) they often present and provide a tough time in being played and enjoyed.

*snip*

In different ways, all those games were hard to finish.
Click to expand...

Wait, so your argument is "platformers are struggling because they're too hard to finish compared to "old hardcore" games?

Wait, what?

Every day I hear people lamenting how newer games are too easy and nothing like the old NES/SMS, SNES/Genesis days when games were hard and finishing them "felt like an accomplishment". So which is it? They're flopping because the games are too hard (and please, compared to games of old, those three titles you listed are cake) or because they're too easy?
 
I think it's mostly that the genre has not evolved. They might be more polished, but they're still similar experiences to their predecessors.
 
ChronotriggerJM said:
Yeah that's kind of where I'm at, I feel bad for Rayman Legends, but when they tried to sell it to me for $60 I just kind of scoffed. I'm just not sure it's a genre that should be that expensive.

I impulse buy them and sadly rarely get around to playing them.
Click to expand...

This is stupid.
 
I was recently telling my friends, that psx is possibly the best console ever because it covered all the genres and started new ones.

Today, unfortunately, games like EINHÄNDER, MUSASHINDEN, BUSHIDO BLADE, KLONOA would only sell as a DLC game. At their time, they were respectable and possibly AA titles, today they are no more.

Probably they are too binded to old mechanics that almost never changed, probably their genre wasn't able to grow in scope and epic.

To me, DKCTF is a 9,5/10 game but it's a rare event. I was really disappointed by Mario and Rayman games on WiiU. Bored, more than disappointed.
 
It is strange that most platformers are considered casual games when some of them are dramatically more difficult than much better selling narrative driven games supposedly directed at the hardcore market.
 
The flood of competent but boring indie platformer of the week with 1 art gimmick and 1 gameplay gimmick that has been going on for years basically means a game has to be as good as rayman legends for me to give even the tiniest of fucks. Shit is more common that fps nowadays due to indie scene.
 
TrueGrime said:
What's one of the ways that a platformer can evolve while still being pegged as a platformer.
Click to expand...
More mobility options is a great way to move. Mario added wall jumps, and I honestly can't go back to older Mario games because wall jumping is so much fun.

Mischief Makers was a platformer from the N64 that added a small jetpack onto its main character, and you could propel yourself very little to influence jump arcs.

Rocket Knight Adventures added the chargeable jetpack to send you around.

2D Metroid games add a lot of mobility options.

Basically, one way to move the genre forward is to integrate new ways of controlling your character. The virtue of the platformer is that it is (if well-made) fun to simply move.

Then there are other platformers, like Megaman, which tried to evolve through self-made content, but failed. LBP also tried this, but the physics were wonky.

NSMBWii added multi-player, which was a great innovation. That's why it sold so well. Then NSMBU added nothing, and underperformed.

Gunstar Heroes had multiplayer and combinative weapons for creative play.

I can't tell you what the next big innovation will be (unless you want to hire me ;-)), but there's clearly a lot that can be done out there based on past examples. Mario is, in terms of platforming mechanics, rather bare. As is Donkey Kong. I love platformers, but even I feel a little apathetic when I hear about a new one releasing.

Also: open world 3D Mario. I promise it will sell megatons if done right. Traverse the mushroom kingdom! The next Mario game needs to be the true successor to SM64. Then it will change the platforming world.
 
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