Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 6: Final Destination confirmed for not fun

I know that I'm going to stats something obvious but here it goes. I noticed that we got 7 new items and 10 veteran items so far. So we have about 44 items to go, so I have a feeling that I doubt that all items would return.

Newcomer Items
Back Shield
Bee Hive
Bombachu
Boomerang
Bullet Bill
Chest
Cucco
Drill Arm
Fairy in a Bottle
Fire Bar
Galaga (Ship)
Gust Bellows
Hocotate Spaceship
Hook Beetle
Killer Eye (Turret)
Master Ball
Ore Club
POW Block
Rocket Belt
Special Flag (Rally X)
Spiny Shell (Blue Shell)
Super Leaf
Torpedo Gun (Steel Diver)
X-Bomb

Veteran Items - Confirmed
Assist Trophy
Banana Peels
Barrels
Beam Sword
Blast Box
Bob-omb
Bumper
Bunny Hood
Capsule
Crates
Deku Nut
Dragoon
Fire Flower
Food
Franklin Badge
Freezie
Gooey Bomb
Gold Hammer
Green Shell
Hammer
Heart Container
Home Run Bat
Hothead
Lightning Bolt
Lip's Stick
Maxim Tomato
Metal Box
Motion-Sensor Bomb
Mr. Saturn
Pitfall
Poison Mushroom
Pokeball
Ray Gun
Sandbag
Screw Attack
Smart Bomb
Smash Ball
Smoke Ball
Spring
Soccer Ball
Star Rod
Starman
Super Mushroom
Super Scope
Superspicy Curry
Team Healer
Timer
Unira
Warp Star

Item Disconfirmed to be in Smash 4
Flipper

Items that haven't announced yet
Barrel Cannon
Cracker Launcher
Fan
Invisible Cloak Device
Party Ball
Red Shell
 
New item looks fun!
DisconnectD said:
Thank you. Finally somebody states the obvious.

As fun as hell as project M is, it honestly just smacks as DISRESPECTFUL as hell when people treat the modification of the actual game as better than the real thing. It is nonsensical, since the mod would not even exist without the original game. Ike,metaknight,zerosuit,Wario,diddy,olimar,snake,sonic,rob,pit,wolf, dedede wouldn't even fucking exist, nor would the new stages if it wasn't for Brawl. A game that Masahiro Sakurai, building upon the other 2 games, (one of which is the apple of so many competitive smashers eye; Most of which are the ones who have so much unbridled adoration for Project M) may as well have developed and pain stakingly balanced all of them himself because he is a mad genius.

Disgusting and absurd when you think about it....
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Wait..
DisconnectD said:
Wow. I never once said that the creators of the mod were disrespectful or that people who enjoyed project M we disrespecting Sakurai's legacy. Can the knee jerk reactions guys and reread what I said pls?
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What?

Your posts seem to be the nonsensical ones breh
 
to be fair, in the first post he says fans of Project M are being disrespectful by praising it at the original's expense, whereas in the second post he says the creators of Project M weren't disrespecting the original game by modding it. Not quite a contradiction.
 
Zeer0id said:
to be fair, in the first post he says fans of Project M are being disrespectful by praising it at the original's expense, whereas in the second post he says the creators of Project M weren't disrespecting the original game by modding it. Not quite a contradiction.
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nope, he tried to cover up, as you can see from the 2nd sentence of the second quote
also:

DisconnectD said:
No, I didn't. I said that people elevating a mere mod based on the culmination of development of three separate full fledged games, pain stakingly and meticulously crafted by technically one man we all pretty much revere, smacks as disrespectful, which means that IMO, coming to the conclusion that a fan made mod,solid or not, is better than the sum of its parts, comes across as disrespectful.

That is not at all the same thing as thinking that the makers are disrespectful or that the mod's existence is such. I love project m and think the authors did some fantastic stuff. None of it would exist without the other 3 games though , so they will always be the superior works to me anyway.
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we'll ignore the obvious ballwashing going on here as well
 
Clean was posted already but I'm reposting it BECAUSE I CAN. Behold, Sonic with sword!
zdlc03011395789310jpgbwscu.jpg


Er, wait, no.
daily_20140326_85uj9.jpg


There we go.

I'm still very, very slowly working through KI:U (just met Pyrrhon). The pinky thing kinda helps, but the analog pad is just too close to the edge to be comfortable for my left hand to access both it and the trigger for shooting things at the same time - gives me major cramps between my thumb and index finger, whether it's the standard 3DS or the XL. So yes, I still stand by my "this game causes me physical pain to play" assertion, which is a shame, because the writing is so good. :\

friskykillface said:
Facebook buys GAF for 2 million
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You jest, but EviLore's been made some remarkably lucrative offers in the past - offers that he's turned down on principle.
 
theprodigy said:
nope, he tried to cover up, as you can see from the 2nd sentence of the second quote
also:

we'll ignore the obvious ballwashing going on here as well
Click to expand...

It was worse than I thought.. OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

But seriously, this reminds me of the same type of people who do not want ANY sort of DLC because they think it would be deliberately cut from the full game in order to be sold separately later on. Crazy..
 
IntelliHeath said:
I think Quas need to stop making stained glass arts for unconfirmed characters because the art is very powerful hype machine. :P (And I don't want people to get disappointed if those characters didn't get in.)

Vsnpvpz.jpg
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Yeah, I really think he should hold off on this until new characters get announced. AbyssWolf followed that rule with the "Get Ready to Brawl" sprite fanart and I believe the same should be applied here. Won't mean anything if characters like Palutena and Mewtwo don't make it.
 
IntelliHeath said:
I know that I'm going to stats something obvious but here it goes. I noticed that we got 7 new items and 10 veteran items so far. So we have about 44 items to go, so I have a feeling that I doubt that all items would return.
Click to expand...

Since there's no more tripping, the Banana Peel won't return, will it? Unless you count that as Diddy's Down Special.

Also, I don't think Dragoon should return, it felt cheap using it even if it is technically more difficult to use than the Home Run Bat.
 
RiggyRob said:
Since there's no more tripping, the Banana Peel won't return, will it? Unless you count that as Diddy's Down Special.

Also, I don't think Dragoon should return, it felt cheap using it even if it is technically more difficult to use than the Home Run Bat.
Click to expand...

The Banana Peel has been shown in some 3DS screenshots.
 
RiggyRob said:
Since there's no more tripping, the Banana Peel won't return, will it? Unless you count that as Diddy's Down Special.

Also, I don't think Dragoon should return, it felt cheap using it even if it is technically more difficult to use than the Home Run Bat.
Click to expand...

The Dragoon item was awesome, why wouldn't you want something completely unique to return? Not only was it relatively rare, but you could disable it too.
 
Sakurai is certainly heaping on the Kid Icarus love in this installment, huh? Two brand new items...

I'm beginning to wonder if this installment will see more items based on franchises in general, rather than things like the Cracker Launcher or Banana Peel. Obviously we've had Smash Bros. staples (Home-Run Bat, Ray Gun, etc.) but I wonder if those sorts of things will be more the exception rather than the rule. I hope so, honestly - having items from the various franchises is more fun than having things like Soccer Balls.
 
MrSaturn99 said:
Yeah, I really think he should hold off on this until new characters get announced. AbyssWolf followed that rule with the "Get Ready to Brawl" sprite fanart and I believe the same should be applied here. Won't mean anything if characters like Palutena and Mewtwo don't make it.
Click to expand...

His spending too much time on the forums I guess.

Ice Climber one doesn't seem as good as the others.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
Sakurai is certainly heaping on the Kid Icarus love in this installment, huh? Two brand new items...

I'm beginning to wonder if this installment will see more items based on franchises in general, rather than things like the Cracker Launcher or Banana Peel. Obviously we've had Smash Bros. staples (Home-Run Bat, Ray Gun, etc.) but I wonder if those sorts of things will be more the exception rather than the rule. I hope so, honestly - having items from the various franchises is more fun than having things like Soccer Balls.
Click to expand...

100% agree.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
Sakurai is certainly heaping on the Kid Icarus love in this installment, huh? Two brand new items...

I'm beginning to wonder if this installment will see more items based on franchises in general, rather than things like the Cracker Launcher or Banana Peel. Obviously we've had Smash Bros. staples (Home-Run Bat, Ray Gun, etc.) but I wonder if those sorts of things will be more the exception rather than the rule. I hope so, honestly - having items from the various franchises is more fun than having things like Soccer Balls.
Click to expand...

The Soccer Ball was based off of Mario Strikers. :P

R0ckman said:
Ice Climber one doesn't seem as good as the others.
Click to expand...

I agree. Not a fan of the background choice for Ike either.
 
MrSaturn99 said:
Yeah, I really think he should hold off on this until new characters get announced. AbyssWolf followed that rule with the "Get Ready to Brawl" sprite fanart and I believe the same should be applied here. Won't mean anything if characters like Palutena and Mewtwo don't make it.
Click to expand...

nah, gotta create HYPE man
 
Okay so next week we're getting the GBA games of Golden Sun and Metroid Fusion. I know it's a slim chance, but what a great way to introduce people to Isaac or
Ridley
and have one of them show up in the April Direct in the middle of April.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
The Dragoon item was awesome, why wouldn't you want something completely unique to return? Not only was it relatively rare, but you could disable it too.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, the idea of collecting 3 parts of an item for a powerful attack is great (see Powerstone), but it seemed like the parts of the Dragoon would just pop out of your character after being hit at random. If I had to choose between items that should stay and items that should go, I'd pick the Dragoon as one to go - that's just my opinion though, and it might be better all around if all items stayed anyway.
 
MrSaturn99 said:
The Soccer Ball was based off of Mario Strikers. :P
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Within the game it's never attributed to Mario Strikers, and it's not really... identifiable as coming from Strikers. If they had chosen to use the distinctive metallic soccer ball from Strikers Charged I think it would have been a lot cooler as an item - distinctively coming from a franchise and actually having some reason to randomly set on fire when you hit it.

It's kinda similar to what they did with the Cracker Launcher, albeit with a more generic starting point. The Launcher is very clearly based on a similar item from Kirby Air Ride, but they redesigned it and officially considered it an item original to Smash Bros. for... some reason. It's less fun that way. It's like if they had an item called the Turtle Shell that looked similar to the Mario Bros. Green Shell and acted the same, but it wasn't quite like it and was billed as a SSB-original item.

Actually, come to think of it, that entire way of thinking falls pretty heavily in line with Brawl's SSE and its apparent need to have a bunch of "original" stuff to the exclusion of Smash Bros.' greatest strength as a crossover title. Which was bad and lame and awful, and something I sincerely hope they don't do for whatever Adventure-type modes SSB4 has.

RiggyRob said:
Don't get me wrong, the idea of collecting 3 parts of an item for a powerful attack is great (see Powerstone), but it seemed like the parts of the Dragoon would just pop out of your character after being hit at random. If I had to choose between items that should stay and items that should go, I'd pick the Dragoon as one to go - that's just my opinion though, and it might be better all around if all items stayed anyway.
Click to expand...
I think in general Brawl was really inconsistent about that sort of thing - it always felt like CPUs could inexplicably hold onto the Dragoon Pieces better than human players, which wasn't fun at all. If the Dragoon comes back (and I personally hope it does) I think it should just consistently be dropped if the holder is hit at all - perhaps with attacks that don't flinch being the one exception - so that there's more consistency.

Come to think of it, issues with consistency were my biggest beef with Brawl's items in general. It's not fun if relatively-weak items you can pick up have a random chance of misfiring on you - the Timer and Lightning Bolt were utterly awful in this regard. And then there were things like the Deku Nut which randomly could deal insane knockback if you hit opponents in the air... a lot of Brawl's items weren't very good or balanced and I hope that they play with whichever ones are chosen to return. A certain amount of randomness in items is good - but a certain amount of skill and risk/reward balancing needs to be there, too, or the entire system falls flat.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
It was worse than I thought.. OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

But seriously, this reminds me of the same type of people who do not want ANY sort of DLC because they think it would be deliberately cut from the full game in order to be sold separately later on. Crazy..
Click to expand...

Conspiracy Theorist are the worst. Seriously like not everyone who even worked on project M hated brawl.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
Actually, come to think of it, that entire way of thinking falls pretty heavily in line with Brawl's SSE and its apparent need to have a bunch of "original" stuff to the exclusion of Smash Bros. greatest strength as a crossover title. Which was bad and lame and awful, and something I sincerely hope they don't do for whatever Adventure-type modes SSB4 has.
Click to expand...
There has been lots of original content without coming from Nintendo games since the first Smash. I have no idea what you're saying.
 
MrSaturn99 said:
Yeah, I really think he should hold off on this until new characters get announced. AbyssWolf followed that rule with the "Get Ready to Brawl" sprite fanart and I believe the same should be applied here. Won't mean anything if characters like Palutena and Mewtwo don't make it.
Click to expand...

I agreed. I wish that AbyssWolf would do SSB4 sprites but I understand that he have a job now so he's too busy to do the sprites.

C.Olimar788 said:
Sakurai is certainly heaping on the Kid Icarus love in this installment, huh? Two brand new items...

I'm beginning to wonder if this installment will see more items based on franchises in general, rather than things like the Cracker Launcher or Banana Peel. Obviously we've had Smash Bros. staples (Home-Run Bat, Ray Gun, etc.) but I wonder if those sorts of things will be more the exception rather than the rule. I hope so, honestly - having items from the various franchises is more fun than having things like Soccer Balls.
Click to expand...

Legend of Zelda are getting more loves than Kid Icarus at the moment, so I think it's good that we are getting more items that are based on franchises. Actually, Soccer came from NES' game, "Soccer."

PadWarrior said:
Okay so next week we're getting the GBA games of Golden Sun and Metroid Fusion. I know it's a slim chance, but what a great way to introduce people to Isaac or
Ridley
and have one of them show up in the April Direct in the middle of April.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Advance Wars as well. I have a feeling that that date might be good for Assist Trophy Reveal.

tonyh24613 said:
Does Wario's bike or Rush count as item?
Click to expand...

Yes, it does but I'm going with the items that are controlled by the item rules; not moveset items like Grenade, Bike, etc.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
Within the game it's never attributed to Mario Strikers, and it's not really... identifiable as coming from Strikers. If they had chosen to use the distinctive metallic soccer ball from Strikers Charged I think it would have been a lot cooler as an item - distinctively coming from a franchise and actually having some reason to randomly set on fire when you hit it.

It's kinda similar to what they did with the Cracker Launcher, albeit with a more generic starting point. The Launcher is very clearly based on a similar item from Kirby Air Ride, but they redesigned it and officially considered it an item original to Smash Bros. for... some reason. It's less fun that way. It's like if they had an item called the Turtle Shell that looked similar to the Mario Bros. Green Shell and acted the same, but it wasn't quite like it and was billed as a SSB-original item.

Actually, come to think of it, that entire way of thinking falls pretty heavily in line with Brawl's SSE and its apparent need to have a bunch of "original" stuff to the exclusion of Smash Bros. greatest strength as a crossover title. Which was bad and lame and awful, and something I sincerely hope they don't do for whatever Adventure-type modes SSB4 has.
Click to expand...

On this topic I have thought before that I could picture a character based off the Smash Bros franchise, even if I think it isn't likely, the idea of a character (Like a polygon/wire frame/alloy fighter) whose moveset is composed using items from the game sounds kind of fun. But I doubt something like this will happen for the same reason you stated.
 
DaBoss said:
There has been lots of original content without coming from Nintendo games since the first Smash. I have no idea what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Smash Bros., as a crossover series, derives much of its appeal from being a crossover series - from taking characters and concepts from various Nintendo franchises and mashing them together in an awesome way. Every Smash Bros. game has granted this some kind of setting to ground it, which is also very important - things like Battlefield, Ray Guns, Master Hand all add context to the crossover and highlight the strengths of such a format. It's like how Kingdom Hearts has original protagonists instead of just using Mickey - it allows for the Disney crossover element to work even better and shine even brighter as a result.

Brawl, however, went a bit... too far in that direction, I would argue. The SSE is the worst offender - where Melee's Adventure Mode took elements from its crossovers and put them together in a fun, interesting way, the SSE made up a bunch of stuff and kinda mashed a couple of crossover elements, as well as the characters, into it. It was to its detriment as a whole - it would be like if a Kingdom Hearts game came out where Disney characters were part of the plot and maybe you had Disney character summons and such, but every world you went to was original instead of being based on Disney movies. It plays against the inherent strength of a crossover.

Granted the SSE had moments where the crossover shined - several of the cutscenes did a great job, such as the one before you fight Rayquaza - but overall it fell quite flat.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
Smash Bros., as a crossover series, derives much of its appeal from being a crossover series - from taking characters and concepts from various Nintendo franchises and mashing them together in an awesome way. Every Smash Bros. game has granted this some kind of setting to ground it, which is also very important - things like Battlefield, Ray Guns, Master Hand all add context to the crossover and highlight the strengths of such a format. It's like how Kingdom Hearts has original protagonists instead of just using Mickey - it allows for the Disney crossover element to work even better and shine even brighter as a result.

Brawl, however, went a bit... too far in that direction, I would argue. The SSE is the worst offender - where Melee's Adventure Mode took elements from its crossovers and put them together in a fun, interesting way, the SSE made up a bunch of stuff and kinda mashed a couple of crossover elements, as well as the characters, into it. It was to its detriment as a whole - it would be like if a Kingdom Hearts game came out where Disney characters were part of the plot and maybe you had Disney character summons and such, but every world you went to was original instead of being based on Disney movies. It plays against the inherent strength of a crossover.

Granted the SSE had moments where the crossover shined - several of the cutscenes did a great job, such as the one before you fight Rayquaza - but overall it fell quite flat.
Click to expand...

Quite honestly, the only reason to play through SSE was to unlock characters and watch cutscenes. Though you'd unlock stuff way faster through just playing VS mode with your friends.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
Smash Bros., as a crossover series, derives much of its appeal from being a crossover series - from taking characters and concepts from various Nintendo franchises and mashing them together in an awesome way. Every Smash Bros. game has granted this some kind of setting to ground it, which is also very important - things like Battlefield, Ray Guns, Master Hand all add context to the crossover and highlight the strengths of such a format. It's like how Kingdom Hearts has original protagonists instead of just using Mickey - it allows for the Disney crossover element to work even better and shine even brighter as a result.

Brawl, however, went a bit... too far in that direction, I would argue. The SSE is the worst offender - where Melee's Adventure Mode took elements from its crossovers and put them together in a fun, interesting way, the SSE made up a bunch of stuff and kinda mashed a couple of crossover elements, as well as the characters, into it. It was to its detriment as a whole - it would be like if a Kingdom Hearts game came out where Disney characters were part of the plot and maybe you had Disney character summons and such, but every world you went to was original instead of being based on Disney movies. It plays against the inherent strength of a crossover.

Granted the SSE had moments where the crossover shined - several of the cutscenes did a great job, such as the one before you fight Rayquaza - but overall it fell quite flat.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying now. I agree that the SSE was done completely wrong since the majority of it was just original content.

I didn't understand your thoughts about the whole items being original in Brawl is related to SSE. There has been original items and items that take inspiration from ones in other series since the beginning.
 
Neoriceisgood said:
I'm glad people are telling fanartists what they're allowed to draw/not draw.
Click to expand...

The internet should really establish a consortium to make a digital manual dictating how hype and antihype should be handled once and for all. Call it Rules of Excitement.

@prodigy: Tier list seems interesting. I think Pit's going to jump up to Fox/Falco levels and I also think that Mario is being slept on. He's like the epitome of "fuck it, I'm doing what I want" while also possessing no bad match ups and amazing tools.

He could and probably should be right up there next to Wolf.

Edit: Whoa whoa whoa, Lucas is being slept on to hell and back. Dude is like the 4th space animal in disguise.
 
I'm not sure if this was mentioned but that whole deleted tweet by GameXplain a few pages back might have been caused by a glitch. Loads of people were complaining about it last night.
 
Neoriceisgood said:
I'm glad people are telling fanartists what they're allowed to draw/not draw.
Click to expand...

Azure J said:
The internet should really establish a consortium to make a digital manual dictating how hype and antihype should be handled once and for all. Call it Rules of Excitement.
Click to expand...

Seem that people are too sensitive. I'm speaking my opinion that they shouldn't. Also I would like to point it out that he said that he wouldn't release the stained glass until the character get reveal then why would he have to show them in first place since it would kill the hype of his works since we already know what it would look like. Since when is it sharing my opinions equality as telling them what to do?
 
IntelliHeath said:
Seem that people are too sensitive. I'm speaking my opinion that they shouldn't. Since when is it sharing my opinions equality as telling them what to do?
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Mind you, I'm not responding directly to your statement since I know you better. It does get distracting sometimes in other communities seeing how people talk down someone's enthusiasm though.
 
Azure J said:
Mind you, I'm not responding directly to your statement since I know you better. It does get distracting sometimes in other communities seeing how people talk down someone's enthusiasm though.
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Alright, I hope there is no harms there. I'm sorry about it.

Kriken said:
I thought Link seemed really good in Project M, didn't realize he was given THAT good of an upgrade
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Yeah, he's amazing in the game.
 
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