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[Kimosabae]

There shouldn't even be movelists in 3D fighters imo - or they should be highly restricted.

There should be a "command tutorial" to give a general understanding of how the game plays and that's it.

 

[oneida]

I've heard this as well. but as a new player, how do you pick them?

It's not really different than 2D games. Not like every character uses every special or every button they have availible to them. but because there are alot less options overall it's alot easier for new players to weed out the good ones. Especially during actual play.

P, 2P, 6P, throw

for characters that do not have a 6P elbow you'll have to find their 14 frame mid, such as Lei Fei's 43P+K.

P is +2 on block and allows for the mixup of 6P or throw. if your opponent knows how to fuzzy that mixup, you can delay the throw and beat their fuzzy.

P is +8 on CH so it allows for another elbow/throw mixup but in this case it cannot be fuzzy guarded. You throw if you think your opponent will block or evade, you elbow if you think your opponent will push buttons.

6P is +7 on CH so same as above. either elbow again or throw. Use it after blocking attacks because you'll have enough frame advantage to force the move and if it's blocked it is safe. you can fuzzy guard after a blocked 6P.

2P beats high strings and is +7 on CH so it's the same mixup again. It is -5 on block and all you have to do to fuzzy guard is let go of 2 and hold guard. You'll stand up in time to block mids, but quickly enough that throws will whiff.

Throw is your unblockable. Use it on opponents who block.

Because SFIV happened and changed a lot of common thought on what a fighting game should be like.

Prior to that, there was a lot less tolerance for things like fireballs or link based combos.

During the PSX/N64/Saturn console days, 3D fighters pulled ahead with the advent of 3D graphics. Since no one wanted to play games with sprites, 2D fighters were pushed back as a result. But SF4 put them back on top. The updated graphics gave them mass market appeal. Games like Tekken or Soul Calibur can't live off the fact that they're 3D anymore.

Since the base of 2D fighting was developed a generation prior to 3D fighting games, their gameplay is more...minimalist? Not only smaller movesets but...there would never be something like 8 way run in a SNES/Genesis game. And the character archetypes are way more broad and they rely on extravagance. Super moves, special moves and what not. That just appeals more to people than 3D fighters, who are totally defined on only kicking and punching. Maybe the infighting in 3D fighters is more defined than 2D....But just on an appeal basis, it's hard to compete with games that involve you flying across the screen, shooting plasma beams, etc.

If I were to compare it to something else in gaming...it's like Mario games. A lot of people think 3D mario games are taking a backseat to 2D games of the same franchise. Games like Mario 64 and the first Tekken/VF games were created during a time where exploring new types of gameplay came with the new technology of the time. But that novelty isn't there anymore.

But 3D isn't a novelty, maybe it is for the casual market but it fundamentally changes how a good fighting game would implement space. The ring is part of the match.

Fluff in presentation, not in content.

As in each individual variation on a string being listed as its own move. "PP," "PPP," and "PPPP" being listed as totally separate things. Every single variation of the basic neutral P+G throw (accounting for all possible orientations of player and opponent) being listed separately. Sure, it makes sense because the command does result in a different move in each circumstance, but it's these kinds of thing that makes the lists look more bloated than they really are.

Then you get into things like how some of the longer strings with gaps should only be used after a launch/crumple/whatever and never raw because they're interruptible, but there's no indication for this; those strings are just lumped in the middle of other striking attacks of all types. Stuff like that gives you no indication as to what your "pokes" should be.

Oh I see, I agree that the movelists are artificially bloated because it is not likely you'll care about the 2nd hit of a 4 hit string unless it's cancelable into a stance or something. all that really matters is whether you can delay it or cancel it IMO.

 

[Dahbomb]

Like Rise of the Imperfects?

Sure if it wasn't top down and not garbage..

And yea 3D movelists need more consolidation and better categorization. Moves should be properly labeled (launcher, poke, OTG capable) and properly categorized (poke moves separated from launchers). They should also give information on what they do on counter hit. All follow ups on strings should be listed within one move so if you select it, it shows all the follow ups and their properties.

Like Laser Cannon of Jin shouldn't be listed as two moves, it should be listed as one move with two variations.

There is also no need to list 4 different generic throws for different positioning when every character has it. Just list the special throws for the characters (like Jin's f,f+1+2 head butt throw).

 

[Omega]

Fighting games outside of SF will never be mainstream. It's too complicated of a genre and SF is the only one that removes that entry barrier. Look at the other two arguably most popular games right now, CoD and LoL.

Players have this stupid honor code when it comes to fighting games. We've seen the weak asz gamefreak messages and all that stuff. No one wants to learn wavedashing in Tekken, or the in and outs of VF besides someone already into fighting games.

 

[oneida]

Fighting games outside of SF will never be mainstream. It's too complicated of a genre and SF is the only one that removes that entry barrier. Look at the other two arguably most popular games right now, CoD and LoL.

Players have this stupid honor code when it comes to fighting games. We've seen the weak asz gamefreak messages and all that stuff. No one wants to learn wavedashing in Tekken, or the in and outs of VF besides someone already into fighting games.

This is not universally true, to someone who does not play fighting games having fewer buttons to worry about, no complicated input motions and strings is appealing. VF has a lot of option selects, but so does SF, and they don't become important until you've passed the beginner stage anyway.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

It's too complicated of a genre and SF is old and has been mainstream already

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Fighting games outside of SF will never be mainstream. It's too complicated of a genre and SF is the only one that removes that entry barrier. Look at the other two arguably most popular games right now, CoD and LoL.

Players have this stupid honor code when it comes to fighting games. We've seen the weak asz gamefreak messages and all that stuff. No one wants to learn wavedashing in Tekken, or the in and outs of VF besides someone already into fighting games.

whats you're definition of "complicated"? cuz I think many RPG and sub genres of RPG are as or more complex.

I can see it mechanically those, people are scared to press buttons.

 

[Sayah]

Fluff in presentation, not in content.

As in each individual variation on a string being listed as its own move. "PP," "PPP," and "PPPP" being listed as totally separate things. Every single variation of the basic neutral P+G throw (accounting for all possible orientations of player and opponent) being listed separately. Sure, it makes sense because the command does result in a different move in each circumstance, but it's these kinds of things that makes the lists look more bloated than they really are.

Then you get into things like how some of the longer strings with gaps should only be used after a launch/crumple/whatever and never raw because they're interruptible, but there's no indication for this; those strings are just lumped in the middle of other striking attacks of all types. Stuff like that gives you no indication as to what your "pokes" should be.

I don't know about Virtua Fighter much but with Tekken, you can't have it all listed as one string. You have different startup moves that can lead to different strings. i.e. Nina's d/f+3,2 can transition into d/f+3,2, d+3,2 or d/f+3,2,3, or d/f+3,2 into SS --> which also has an assortment of its own strings. You cannot possibly list all of that as one string.

As far as a comparison to 2D and 3D fighters go, 2D fighters at large have much smaller command lists even if you taken into consideration the different attacks being performed in air. In contrast to command lists that can go close to 200 moves in 3D fighters. Even if you discount all of this supposed "fluff", there is still a lot of content there. That's, of course, not to mention that even Tekken doesn't have every move listed in the command list. This includes the various get up options and air strings (e.g. u/f+3 or u/f+4 or u/f+1) or even back flips for certain characters.

Sure if it wasn't top down and not garbage..

And yea 3D movelists need more consolidation and better categorization. Moves should be properly labeled (launcher, poke, OTG capable) and properly categorized (poke moves separated from launchers). They should also give information on what they do on counter hit. All follow ups on strings should be listed within one move so if you select it, it shows all the follow ups and their properties.

Like Laser Cannon of Jin shouldn't be listed as two moves, it should be listed as one move with two variations.

There is also no need to list 4 different generic throws for different positioning when every character has it. Just list the special throws for the characters (like Jin's f,f+1+2 head butt throw).

No, that shouldn't be the case because throws from left, right, and from back will have different animations. If a new person is playing the game, then they need to know what is available to them, especially since back throws do more damage.

 

[Sayah]

Fighting games outside of SF will never be mainstream. It's too complicated of a genre and SF is the only one that removes that entry barrier. Look at the other two arguably most popular games right now, CoD and LoL.

Players have this stupid honor code when it comes to fighting games. We've seen the weak asz gamefreak messages and all that stuff. No one wants to learn wavedashing in Tekken, or the in and outs of VF besides someone already into fighting games.

Except this is not true. Before SFIV, pretty much every new 3D fighter entry was sustaining the fighting game business and VF, DoA, Tekken, and Soul Calibur were the only franchises getting regular sequel updates, which sold rather well. Tekken is also the highest selling franchise in the fighting genre. Tekken 3 alone sold like 8 million copies.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Fighting games outside of SF will never be mainstream. It's too complicated of a genre and SF is the only one that removes that entry barrier.

Mortal Kombat still does pretty well with a mainstream audience.

 

[Dahbomb]

Those are universal throws, not a character movelist. That's like listing forward and back throws in a SF game or in Marvel 3 listing forward throw, back throw, air foward throw and air back throw. For some characters that actually makes a difference because a forward air throw with Wesker throws them all the way back but back air throw puts them at his feet.

Since every character has those 4 options it's pointless to list them. That's one of those things you learn at the start as a universal thing (1+3 and 2+4 throws, low parry, how to roll and do get up/running moves). Separate universal stuff from character specific stuff.

In that regard there should be a universal movelist too that lists all the get up options, running options, low parry, basic throws etc. Something players should be familiar with before getting into character specific moves.

 

[Retro_]

For a while though, it was 3D fighters who absorbed the casual market, mainly with Tekken, DOA, Smash and Soulcalibour .

I'm not really interested in the casual market at all with fighting games.

My post was from the perspective of someone that actually wants to seek out and learn games. Why are 2D games so much more popular than 3D at tournaments?

P, 2P, 6P, throw

for characters that do not have a 6P elbow you'll have to find their 14 frame mid, such as Lei Fei's 43P+K.

P is +2 on block and allows for the mixup of 6P or throw. if your opponent knows how to fuzzy that mixup, you can delay the throw and beat their fuzzy.

P is +8 on CH so it allows for another elbow/throw mixup but in this case it cannot be fuzzy guarded. You throw if you think your opponent will block or evade, you elbow if you think your opponent will push buttons.

6P is +7 on CH so same as above. either elbow again or throw. Use it after blocking attacks because you'll have enough frame advantage to force the move and if it's blocked it is safe. you can fuzzy guard after a blocked 6P.

2P beats high strings and is +7 on CH so it's the same mixup again. It is -5 on block and all you have to do to fuzzy guard is let go of 2 and hold guard. You'll stand up in time to block mids, but quickly enough that throws will whiff.

Throw is your unblockable. Use it on opponents who block.

.

So basically what I take from this is that I mistook my personal familiarity with 2D fundamentals as intuitiveness.(being able to press buttons and discern their utility quickly) From this it seems like 3D games have a very basic fundamental flow and universal tool logic/utility as well. I just didn't know about it.

So that throws my idea out the window.

 

[Sayah]

Those are universal throws, not a character movelist. That's like listing forward and back throws in a SF game or in Marvel 3 listing forward throw, back throw, air foward throw and air back throw. For some characters that actually makes a difference because a forward air throw with Wesker throws them all the way back but back air throw puts them at his feet.

Since every character has those 4 options it's pointless to list them. That's one of those things you learn at the start as a universal thing (1+3 and 2+4 throws, low parry, how to roll and do get up/running moves). Separate universal stuff from character specific stuff.

In that regard there should be a universal movelist too that lists all the get up options, running options, low parry, basic throws etc. Something players should be familiar with before getting into character specific moves.

They are character specific because they have different animations despite having the same commands. Get up options are also largely the same commands for each character but they are not listed in the command list for a good reason. Get up kicks and attacks largely have the same exact animations for each character, whereas throws do not.

 

[oneida]

So basically what I take from this is that I mistook my personal familiarity with 2D fundamentals as intuitiveness.(being able to press buttons and discern their utility quickly) From this it seems like 3D games have a very basic fundamental flow and universal tool logic/utility as well. I just didn't know about it.

I began VF from a 2D background, and I wish I could tell you what I brought with me that helped me learn the game. If you've ever wanted to fully understand frame advantage, VF is the place to do it, for sure - otherwise, the rules are mostly different. Combos work differently, there's no frame counting there, throws too. You can't throw people out of start up animations in VF, if they're attacking, they're attacking, and you'll get hit out of your throw.

People keep talking about pokes in this conversation, which is weird to me, because it's not like SF where you want to keep your opponent from going in because that's when they can open you up. Maybe that makes sense in a linear game, but in VF that won't keep people out and if it connects it won't do much damage.

 

[Dahbomb]

So we should list all throws in Marvel 3 as well? They have different animations as well as different properties/application.

Hell might as well list the block command and dash command for every character in Marvel 3 because the animations are different.

 

[oneida]

So we should list all throws in Marvel 3 as well? They have different animations as well as different properties/application.

I agree with you, I think it is obtuse to do so. If a movelist exists for beginners to see what moves a character have, moves that share the same input across different situations being separated is more off-putting than it is helpful. For example in VF, sabakis are always separated like, this one is for mid elbows, and this one is for mid knees. But it's the same input, so who cares?

 

[Sayah]

So we should list all throws in Marvel 3 as well? They have different animations as well as different properties/application.

Hell might as well list the block command for every character in Marvel 3 because the animations are different.

I'm not talking about Marvel. I'm talking about Tekken. One game is working on a 2D plane and the other one is working in 3-dimensional space. You want the new player playing the game to know that if they manage to get to the side or the back of an opponent, they will be awarded with higher damaged throws and that throws are a viable option from behind (i.e. this link). The devs in Tekken have good reason to list the various throw animations.

 

[Zissou]

Few fighters are truly 3D, no? The '2D' games have two axes (x and y) and '3D' fighters have two as well (x and z).

 

[Kimosabae]

Few fighters are truly 3D, no? The '2D' games have two axes (x and y) and '3D' fighters have two as well (x and z).

jump is y

 

[oneida]

Few fighters are truly 3D, no? The '2D' games have two axes (x and y) and '3D' fighters have two as well (x and z).

how do you quantify 2D fighters' use of the Y axis? SCII is known for its while landing mixup and VF has them too.

you can also jump out of some mix ups, and empty jump throw is some legit KoF shit

 

[Zissou]

I don't think you could argue any 3D fighter (excluding Virtual On or something like that) has much significant verticality compared to something like marvel.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm not talking about Marvel. I'm talking about Tekken. One game is working on a 2D plane and the other one is working in 3-dimensional space. You want the new player playing the game to know that if they manage to get to the side or the back of an opponent, they will be awarded with higher damaged throws and that throws are a viable option from behind (i.e. this link). The devs in Tekken have good reason to list the various throw animations.

And so you list the throws in a universal move list.

Again you have not provided a reason why this shouldn't be in a Marvel game. What difference does it make if it's 2D or 3D? Your defense originally was that the animation was different and different properties which I said applied in Marvel 3 as well. You cited "developer reason" but according to Tekken developer reason we shouldn't have frame data either!

 

[Kimosabae]

I don't think you could argue any 3D fighter (excluding Virtual On or something like that) has much significant verticality compared to something like marvel.

What's your point? No one's presented any arguments. Your question was answered. It's seems you want to imply that most 3D fighter's "3D-ness" isn't 3D enough to satisfy some personal standard of your own.

Just come out with it.

 

[oneida]

I don't think you could argue any 3D fighter (excluding Virtual On or something like that) has much significant verticality compared to something like marvel.

and if the y axis is less significant in SF2 CE than in marvel is it still a 2D fighter?

I know what you're saying, but I think that it is stupid

 

[thehadou]

The easy answer on the 2D first 3D debate is simply that Street Fighter (and its offspring) is Coca-Cola. At best Tekken (and its offspring) can be Pepsi. The litany of reasons for this are documented but a lot boils down to being the first recognized "something" in the public space.

 

[Shouta]

So we should list all throws in Marvel 3 as well? They have different animations as well as different properties/application.

Hell might as well list the block command and dash command for every character in Marvel 3 because the animations are different.

Except you know that throws in 3D games have different breaks depending on which one is happening and all that jazz. Pretty good reason in a game like VF or even Tekken to list throws separately.

 

[Sayah]

And so you list the throws in a universal move list.

Again you have not provided a reason why this shouldn't be in a Marvel game. What difference does it make if it's 2D or 3D? Your defense originally was that the animation was different and different properties which I said applied in Marvel 3 as well. You cited "developer reason" but according to Tekken developer reason we shouldn't have frame data either!

It can be in a Marvel game if it wants to be but I'm not talking about Marvel.
I already listed the reason. It's very simple to follow.

1. Get up kicks, u/f options are not listed in the command list because they have the same animations for each character.
2. Throws are listed because they have different animations and different damage based on which side an opponent gets grabbed from.
3. Devs have good reason to list the different throw options to provide new players the idea of what is available to them from the side or from behind.

The fact that Marvel doesn't list them doesn't mean that it's the "right way" or the "better way" to do it. That is aside from the fact that you can't get to the side of an opponent in Marvel.

And now you're bringing frames into the discussion, which is also largely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

 

[Dahbomb]

Except you know that throws in 3D games have different breaks depending on which one is happening and all that jazz. Pretty good reason in a game like VF or even Tekken to list throws separately.

It's a universal concept that you break 2+4 throws with 2 and 1+3 with 1. Just because TAC attacks have different breaks, different properties and different animations doesn't mean every characters TAC input should be listed.

The only exceptions are character specific throws that normally require 1+2 break that are unique to the character. These obviously should be listed as they are unique to the character. I don't need to go to a movelist to figure out what Law's 1+3 throw is or what his back throw is but I probably need to go into a movelist to see what Raven's special throw input is (as it's probably different from Heihachi's head butt).

 

[Zissou]

What's your point? No one's presented any arguments. Your question was answered. It's seems you want to imply that most 3D fighter's "3D-ness" isn't 3D enough to satisfy some personal standard of your own.

Just come out with it.

My (somewhat rhetorical) question was answered with 'there is occasional verticality in 3D fighters' which is kind of a tacit acknowledgement that my point was correct, is it not?

 

[Sayah]

It's a universal concept that you break 2+4 throws with 2 and 1+3 with 1. Just because TAC attacks have different breaks, different properties and different animations doesn't mean every characters TAC input should be listed.

The only exceptions are character specific throws that normally require 1+2 break that are unique to the character. These obviously should be listed as they are unique to the character. I don't need to go to a movelist to figure out what Law's 1+3 throw is or what his back throw is but I probably need to go into a movelist to see what Raven's special throw input is (as it's probably different from Heihachi's head butt).

Except that in Tekken, you can't break back throws. Again, being an advantage for getting behind your opponent and having that knowledge as a new player is vital.

 

[Shouta]

It's a universal concept that you break 2+4 throws with 2 and 1+3 with 1. Just because TAC attacks have different breaks, different properties and different animations doesn't mean every characters TAC input should be listed.

The only exceptions are character specific throws that normally require 1+2 break that are unique to the character. These obviously should be listed as they are unique to the character. I don't need to go to a movelist to figure out what Law's 1+3 throw is or what his back throw is but I probably need to go into a movelist to see what Raven's special throw input is (as it's probably different from Heihachi's head butt).

The fact that there are unique breaks and there are animations that differ for them make it worthwhile. Someone can break consistently by looking at the animation in Tekken as long as they recognize it. The system may be universal but seeing the animation and responding is good enough reason to list it differently.

That doesn't even go into VF where the break is dependent on not just the command but the direction.

 

[Dahbomb]

Except that in Tekken, you can't break back throws. Again, being an advantage for getting behind your opponent and having that knowledge as a new player is vital.

And again I say this should be listed in a universal move list along with stuff like the unblockable shoulder tackle, the ki charge, u/f+4, low parry etc. The input for a back throw does not change in between characters regardless of animation so it's a redundant inclusion.

 

[Kimosabae]

My (somewhat rhetorical) question was answered with 'there is occasional verticality in 3D fighters' which is kind of a tacit acknowledgement that my point was correct, is it not?

Make your point explicit and I'll let you know.

 

[oneida]

My (somewhat rhetorical) question was answered with 'there is occasional verticality in 3D fighters' which is kind of a tacit acknowledgement that my point was correct, is it not?

lol
jumping is a built in mix up that goes over all lows and escapes all throws, it also has a built in mid/low mixup for while landing and while rising attacks. that's more utility than the y axis got out of the 90's, so if your point is that 3D fighters are secretly 2D fighters in disguise, no, your point was not correct

 

[Dahbomb]

lol
jumping is a built in mix up that goes over all lows and escapes all throws, it also has a built in mid/low mixup for while landing and while rising attacks. that's more utility than the y axis got out of the 90's, so if your point is that 3D fighters are secretly 2D fighters in disguise, no, your point was not correct

He wants jumping in 3D games to be part of the whole space control game play not as just another tool in the arsenal. So he is saying that 3D fighters should have stronger jumps so that there is need to use anti airs and have projectiles in the game that you can jump over.

Not in the current crop of 3D games but from a new 3D fighter that has stuff like projectiles, anti airs and jumps. Of course it would have side tracking moves too so you have to mix up between fireballs and those side tacking moves (one can be back dashed, the other can be side stepped).

Basically a proper 2D and 3D hybrid game where both space control and time control matters a lot.

 

[Silky]

I would still play a new 3D Mario though. Super Mario Galaxy games were excellent and I would much rather play that over another SMB rehash.

super Mario 3D Land/World is for you

 

[Sayah]

And again I say this should be listed in a universal move list along with stuff like the unblockable shoulder tackle, the ki charge, u/f+4, low parry etc. The input for a back throw does not change in between characters regardless of animation so it's a redundant inclusion.

Technically, the input can change. You can do 1+2 or 3+4 or f,f+1+2 or whatever else and it will lead to the same animation from behind. First, I would not argue for the inclusion of a separate universal command list. Having one command list is enough to work through. All of this universal stuff can be explained in more detail through a proper tutorial.

He wants jumping in 3D games to be part of the whole space control game play not as just another tool in the arsenal. So he is saying that 3D fighters should have stronger jumps so that there is need to use anti airs and have projectiles in the game that you can jump over.

Not in the current crop of 3D games but from a new 3D fighter that has stuff like projectiles, anti airs and jumps. Of course it would have side tracking moves too so you have to mix up between fireballs and those side tacking moves (one can be back dashed, the other can be side stepped).

Basically a proper 2D and 3D hybrid game where both space control and time control matters a lot.

Go play the Dragon Ball Z games.

 

[Kimosabae]

Bomb, why you gotta' go bailing people out?


That wasn't his point at all. The guy referenced Virtual On, for starters.

 

[theprodigy]

super Mario 3D Land/World is for you

When did you get that tag?

Spoiler

also Wii U for 3D World alone isn't really worth it

 

[Retro_]

Also the KoF Maximum Impact games are pretty shitty

I really don't think the evolution of 3D games is in copying mechanics and elements from 2D games.

Especially since despite all that evolution in 2D games, people still would rather just play SF more than anything over here

 

[Dahbomb]

The DBZ games are ass though.

And yea if there is no universal movelist then those mechanics should be covered in a tutorial. I would imagine throwing, back throws and breaking throws would be part of that tutorial.

 

[vocab]

The best dbz game was bid for power.

 

[oneida]

He wants jumping in 3D games to be part of the whole space control game play not as just another tool in the arsenal. So he is saying that 3D fighters should have stronger jumps so that there is need to use anti airs and have projectiles in the game that you can jump over.

Not in the current crop of 3D games but from a new 3D fighter that has stuff like projectiles, anti airs and jumps. Of course it would have side tracking moves too so you have to mix up between fireballs and those side tacking moves (one can be back dashed, the other can be side stepped).

Basically a proper 2D and 3D hybrid game where both space control and time control matters a lot.

Zissou's VF6 pitch?

The problem with jumping attacks being incorporated as per SF is that 1) cross ups would inherently not work because of the guard button 2) it would require there to be more horizontal range between the two opponents which is not really what VF is about. Right now it has defensive and offensive utility and you can anti-air.

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh I DO NOT want this to be in any existing fighting game (2D or 3D game). This is way too radical for that, should be used for a new IP if someone has the balls for it.

 

[alstein]

Also the KoF Maximum Impact games are pretty shitty

I really don't think the evolution of 3D games is in copying mechanics and elements from 2D games.

Especially since despite all that evolution in 2D games, people still would rather just play SF more than anything over here

MI2 regulation A was not a shitty game, though it did suffer from some Falcoon shitty design.

I think Falcoon might just be the luckiest designer ever- he's a complete buttonmasher yet he made a decent game.

 

[petran79]

I'm not really interested in the casual market at all with fighting games.

My post was from the perspective of someone that actually wants to seek out and learn games. Why are 2D games so much more popular than 3D at tournaments?

oh sorry, I thought you meant the situation during the 90s.

tournament settings are really different as you can set up any fighter relatively easy nowadays.

but one reason probably is that the most hardcore and best of players are experts at 2D fighters, some even from the SF2 arcade era.

3D fighters took some time till they became polished enough for competitive play. there is a player base there too, but it is younger. 3D fighters moved to consoles much earlier too. Eg Soulcalibour and DOA are associated more with consoles. because 3D graphics allowed better conversion from arcades to consoles.

While games like MvC2. SF:3S, Vampire Savior, KOF98, CvSNK2 etc were played mostly in arcades up to the mid-2000s. Not all of them had good console conversions, since arcades used different hardware each (Naomi,Atomiswave, CPS1-3, Neo Geo etc)

Even today there isnt a perfect arcade port of SF:3S.
As a result, arcade 2D fighters had something more appealing than 3D fighters that could be played perfectly on consoles.

 

[pixelish]

anyone here watching hypespotting now? valmaster's chun li is so good!

http://www.twitch.tv/versusscotland

 

[sixteen-bit]

random KI humor - this exchange between the old men killed me, lmao
http://youtu.be/9XE4yTfjRqU?t=9m1s

 

[oneida]

it's that time of year again

 

[QisTopTier]

My buddy Omex put together a vid about how IB/barrier works in BBCP for those who need it: Link

He's a bit silly but whats there is good.

Edit: Have the old TRM video because I keep killing people super hard who don't understand it.

Edit again: have the old knockdown system vid too. I'm only leaving this here since after NA release I keep killing people for rolling/TRM for free, so I guess somebody around here might not know how it all works.

The amount of new players that roll into mak's orb on wake up over and over and over and over *over 8+ times a match* has blown me away STAHP GUYS.

Edit: That blocking mechanic video is great.

Edit 2: LOL THE ENDING I approve