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[FSLink]

I honestly believe that Capcom is just stupid and don't realize it's seen as trolling, and believe they're cute jokes or something like "Hey Megaman fans we didn't forget about you! Remember that OG box art MM!" I mean this would have been a neat thing if MM didn't just have a bunch of games cancelled, so the fans were pissed instead of taking it at a wacky homage.

I mean wasn't Seth Killian quoted as saying that Capcom honestly didn't know that MM was popular over here? They're just completely out of touch of their fanbase.

 

[Beckx]

I didn't notice any rage about the joke cancellation outside of a junior. Maybe folks should check the thread?

I dunno "fuck you Capcom" seems pretty angry but maybe it was meant in jest.

 

[WesternHeretic]

What does that entail, giving them a 20-page response?

Nah he going for triple digits.

 

[Dahbomb]

God damn Enzo I can't believe you are lapping up that PR bull shit! Especially from Capcom who tried to make people believe that DmC would FEEL like a 60 FPS game. Or that MVC3 would have speed of light netcode.

Marketing PR will say anything to sell something. "Hey guys box art ugly ass MM is totally NOT a troll... it's a HOMAGE!"


Either Capcom is a master troller of its fanbase or they are one of the dumbest companies out there (not being able to tell if something will incite strong negative feelings in advance). I could've told them in advance that an April's Fool joke on MM would be a bad idea especially in terms of PR with their MM fanbase. They not only went ahead with it but then they were fucking dumb enough to remove it. So not only are they dumb fucks but they don't have the balls to stick to their joke either!

 

[enzo_gt]

I honestly believe that Capcom is just stupid and don't realize it's seen as trolling, and believe they're cute jokes or something like "Hey Megaman fans we didn't forget about you! Remember that OG box art MM!" I mean this would have been a neat thing if MM didn't just have a bunch of games cancelled, so the fans were pissed instead of taking it at a wacky homage.

I mean wasn't Seth Killian quoted as saying that Capcom honestly didn't know that MM was popular over here? They're just completely out of touch of their fanbase.

Fundamental attribution error at work. Regardless of whatever real problems there are with the MM brand (that even Capcom knows about), putting malice in their intent is something that I think makes absolutely no sense.

God damn Enzo I can't believe you are lapping up that PR bull shit! Especially from Capcom who tried to make people believe that DmC would FEEL like a 60 FPS game. Or that MVC3 would have speed of light netcode.

Marketing PR will say anything to sell something. "Hey guys box art ugly ass MM is totally NOT a troll... it's a HOMAGE!"

Also, my argument doesn't have to do with PR, so I don't know what you're on about. Take it up with Inafune.

But if you really do believe they're veiling trolling and malice as a homage too, well then there's nothing really to say, you're probably wearing the same hate-tinted glasses and delusional too.

 

[Reverend]

I really think there's a 100-foot tall culture barrier between Capcom and the west. I'm sure that there's no real malice behind their teasing, just massive amount of intent lost in translation.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Best thing ever would be bad box art megaman with a decapre mask.

 

[Dahbomb]

Just like Inafune/Capcom talked about homage, Itsuno talked about "feel of 60 FPS".

Shit PR lip service is shit PR lip service. No need to lap it up and regurgitate it.

 

[enzo_gt]

I really think there's a 100-foot tall culture barrier between Capcom and the west. I'm sure that there's no real malice behind their teasing, just massive amount of intent lost in translation.

If there's one thing we know about Capcom, one side knows nothing about what the other is doing.

Capcom Japan keeps doing what they do, Capcom Japan execs keep making idiotic decisions, Capcom USA has to clean up for the disastrous public relations. And Capcom USA doesn't seem to have a reliable way of getting through to Capcom Japan about how to better moderate what they do either, because Capcom Japan does what they want.

Just like Inafune/Capcom talked about homage, Itsuno talked about "feel of 60 FPS".

Shit PR lip service is shit PR lip service. No need to lap it up and regurgitate it.

The fact that you're still comparing the two is hilarious. The latter is clearly a PR quote meant to buffer missing the mark on something integral to the genre/franchise. The former is clear cut what it is. But continue assuming they'd pour thousands of dollars into shitting on a fanbase just because they can. I bet you'll justify it with "it's Capcom, nothing they do makes sense!" or something too. There is no foundation for the argument that Capcom would include Box Art Megaman just to shit on fans, regardless of how it went over with fans (which seems to be commonly confounded with intent it seems).

 

[FSLink]

Fundamental attribution error at work. Regardless of whatever real problems there are with the MM brand (that even Capcom knows about), putting malice in their intent is something that I think makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, I don't think there's actual malice, just them handling the franchise and their fanbase completely wrong.

Capcom Japan keeps doing what they do, Capcom Japan execs keep making idiotic decisions, Capcom USA has to clean up for the disastrous public relations. And Capcom USA doesn't seem to have a reliable way of getting through to Capcom Japan about how to better moderate what they do either, because Capcom Japan does what they want.

Yup. I mean it still blows my mind they thought MM wasn't very popular in the west, it was basically the face of Capcom over here up until recently.

 

[Karsticles]

Do you not know why that character was in the game? It's literally a homage to the box art of the original Megaman game. The character was conceived by Inafune himself, who right now is pushing Mighty No. 9, who wanted a unique representation of Megaman in the game as opposed to just another X/Classic or whatever. It was very explicit in that regard, and it's pretty obvious who it's targeting, the self-proclaimed hardcore Megaman fans.

Um, SFxT is not a homage to box art Megaman. This is box art Megaman:

The art is poor, but the dude is clearly meant to be slim and somewhat good-looking.

This is SFxT Megaman:

This man is fat and ugly. Please tell me you can tell the difference.

The presumption that a corporation would explicitly kick one of it's strongest brands and it's fanbase while it's down and effectively attack consumers, amidst acknowledging they are not done with it and are in the process of regrouping, is idiotic. You straight up have to be a hater to believe that there is malice in intent instead of the more logical idea that they're sprinkling references everywhere as a commitment to delusional fans that a brand is not dead because there have been high profile cancellations. Or in some cases, prototypes that leaked out when they shouldn't have, which fans chalk up as cancellations as well. Anger is the result of not being able to comprehend why the things the way they are and willingly choosing to ignore everything they do for the brand in favour of what fell through; as well as willingly tossing repeated efforts to keep the brand alive out the window. Let's not think about Capcom prototyping multiple games from the brand and let's think about none of them ending up in the stores instead (even though some did get released, but let's be ignorant of that too).

I know we're in a "what have you done for me lately" type of industry, but the reactions are often nonsensical and come from a place of selective ignorance.

I don't think Capcom is hateful. I think they think it is funny. Different cultures have different ideas of reverence and what is okay. Classic example: in the west, there would be a lot of outrage if a mainstream film displayed God as an idiot and a coward. Yet in ancient Greece, the popular play, The Frogs, displays Dionysus in a similar manner. In the play, Dionysus routinely cowers behind people when danger comes and is made fun of in various ways. Yet this play was actually performed at the annual festivals that were held in worship of Dionysus.

I think Japan has a different sense of these things than we in the west do. Westerners tend to take any kind of parody as an insult.

Now, I do not think Capcom is attempting to enrage or insult the fans, but it is definitely trolling, and it is definitely meant to make fun of the character.

I dunno "fuck you Capcom" seems pretty angry but maybe it was meant in jest.

Wasn't that the junior I mentioned? I did see that one. The vast majority of the responses are in good humor, though.

 

[Slamtastic]

Um, SFxT is not a homage to box art Megaman. This is box art Megaman:

 

[Reverend]

Um, SFxT is not a homage to box art Megaman. This is box art Megaman:

The art is poor, but the dude is clearly meant to be slim and somewhat good-looking.

U Wot m8?

 

[FSLink]

Karst, uh...it's clearly based off MM1 boxart Mega Man. Just slightly exaggerated.

 

[Dahbomb]

This is box art MM by the way:

Still he isn't fat like the SFxT version. As far as "homages" go it's still a pretty bad one.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

people take Ls Karst

 

[Seyavesh]

I really think there's a 100-foot tall culture barrier between Capcom and the west. I'm sure that there's no real malice behind their teasing, just massive amount of intent lost in translation.

from what i can tell a lot of people don't seem to realize that the sales for a lot of their pet games are like pretty terrible compared to what they believe the sales are

while it's true that capcom has produced a lot of bad games with bad sales, they've also produced a ton of good games with bad sales. like the only actual consistent sellers they have aren't even based on directors or dev teams, but rather brand recognition.

even then the consistent sales goals for that are basically only met by resident evil and nothing else- sf4 was a big, risky project that almost didn't happen and super sf4 was a huge surprise for 'em. ae and ultra are probably more like 'floater' expansions, stuff that is low cost and helps keep them afloat while they continue to try and feel out the market.

despite people saying that the megaman and DMC series are surefire sellers, the actual sales of the most recent entries of them didn't meet expectations and didn't even recoup development costs iirc. not speaking on mm9/10, but rather powered/x remake/x8- stuff that required larger teams to develop.

however at the same time i've read that capcom is a pretty toxic environment at the moment due to the heads of the company being really stubborn and out of touch with both the current gaming environment and their employees. i kinda have to give them props for taking a ton of risks all the time in regards to how they want to develop their stuff, but they do it so poorly that it's like really sad- it really feels like they continually put all of their eggs into the wrong basket because of random successes they see- like hiring western developers to try and attract a western audience while lowering dev costs because of dead rising 2's success (another huge fluke!) or their insane obsession with chasing after mobile profits

ultimately i pretty much love all their in-house developed games, so it sucks nuts that they're such a shit company

even moreso because it seems like capcom's usa branch has this long history of attempting to fix their mistakes and relay what's actually happening with little success

 

[vocab]

That boxart megaman looks exactly like the one in SFXT just like SFIV ryu looks like SF2 ryu.

 

[vulva]

Was all worried that my dual modded/tournament stick was fucked, I couldn't do up+fw or up+bck (shoulda just added 2 buttons in) but then I remembered I had an old SE that I modded with sanwa parts laying around from like 4 years ago. Swapped the sticks and now I'm back to being able to play properly outside the home again

 

[theprodigy]

I bet you'll justify it with "it's Capcom, nothing they do makes sense!" or something too.

I dunno it makes sense to me.
see also: "It's Nintendo, nothing they do ever makes sense these days."

 

[enzo_gt]

Um, SFxT is not a homage to box art Megaman. This is box art Megaman:

The art is poor, but the dude is clearly meant to be slim and somewhat good-looking.

This is SFxT Megaman:

This man is fat and ugly. Please tell me you can tell the difference.

To be more concrete, this is Megaman:

And he's even more disproportionate and ugly in the original box art than he is in SFxTK. The art being poor is the reason he is even notable.

I don't think Capcom is hateful. I think they think it is funny. Different cultures have different ideas of reverence and what is okay. Classic example: in the west, there would be a lot of outrage if a mainstream film displayed God as an idiot and a coward. Yet in ancient Greece, the popular play, The Frogs, displays Dionysus in a similar manner. In the play, Dionysus routinely cowers behind people when danger comes and is made fun of in various ways. Yet this play was actually performed at the annual festivals that were held in worship of Dionysus.

I think Japan has a different sense of these things than we in the west do. Westerners tend to take any kind of parody as an insult.

Now, I do not think Capcom is attempting to enrage or insult the fans, but it is definitely trolling, and it is definitely meant to make fun of the character.

I don't think there's such thing as unintentional trolling, that's called miscommunication. But I am glad that you do not believe that they are intentionally trying to fuck up public relations.

 

[QisTopTier]

This is box art MM by the way:

Still he isn't fat like the box art. As far as "homages" go it's still a pretty bad one.

The fact his little middle helmet part is fucked up and wiggles around is amazing though.

Besides I figured MM fans would be fine with that april fools joke from capcom seeing how they wanted him in a joke game to begin with.

 

[Dahbomb]

DMC series is one of Capcom's most consistent sellers. Not only that it was on the RISE sales wise with DMC4. They then chopped the momentum of the series with the reboot.

As far as mainline DMC games go, all of them reached or exceeded sales expectations. DmC is only one that didn't reach the sales target.

Comparing the DMC series to MM is idiotic IMO. The average sales of a DMC game is way higher than a MM game even including DmC.

Capcom could release a DMC5 right now on PS4/XB1/PC it will sell 2 million copies (the series average). I can't say that for a new MM game.

 

[Seyavesh]

bad boxart megaman kicks ass as a fanservice thing and if he was legitimately a good character in a game that less people hated i think more folks would've liked him

edit: was dmc4 really on the rise sales wise? i remember reading that it was a pretty big flop when it came out, but that could be totally wrong. like i know dmc2 initially sold way more than 3 because of the sequel effect for both but then 3 went on to sell way way way more over time.

 

[Karsticles]

No idea what ViewtifulJC posted, but no way am I watching a 6 minute video to find out.

He isn't fat in that picture, still.

Also, in SFxT he has a really dopey sounding voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TR8TtmD60A&t=1m

Edit: Watch the Megaman ending in that video. He's a complete doofus.

Also Enzo, you failed to answer my core question: if SFxT Megaman is meant as fan service, who is it fan service for? Who is supposed to be happy and excited to play as that fat slob?

Spoiler

inb4 Rufus

I don't think there's such thing as unintentional trolling, that's called miscommunication. But I am glad that you do not believe that they are intentionally trying to fuck up public relations.

Not all trolling is to incite anger. I do not think this is all done unintentionally. I do think that westerners feel differently about it than Capcom does, likely. Hell, Capcom thinks the west doesn't even like Megaman according to S-Kill. Who knows what other loony crap they think.

 

[Reverend]

The big problem with MegaMan is customer expectation. You can't deviate too far from the old games because the core fanbase will revolt, but you also can't just make a clone of an old game because it's market appeal is limited to nostalgia. It's a poisonous IP.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

He's a fat slob because an american artist drew that in like 4 hours.

It's amazing fan service to the people who know about that box art and it's origin. Which clearly isn't you.

 

[Dahbomb]

bad boxart megaman kicks ass as a fanservice thing and if he was legitimately a good character in a game that less people hated i think more folks would've liked him

edit: was dmc4 really on the rise sales wise? i remember reading that it was a pretty big flop when it came out, but that could be totally wrong. like i know dmc2 initially sold way more than 3 because of the sequel effect for both but then 3 went on to sell way way way more over time.

I don't know what you read.

DMC4's projected sales were 1.8-2.2 million, it ended up selling 2.9 million. It was never referred to as a flop so I don't know where you read that (probably on GAF where people use revisionist history a lot).

DMC3 didn't sell way way more than DMC2, it ended just over 2 million. Just a bit more than DMC2 when you count both DMC3 and SE.

DMC4 is the highest selling DMC game in the series. DmC at lowest, it was projected to sell at 2 million, then the projection was lowered to 1.2 million.

 

[Karsticles]

He's a fat slob because an american artist drew that in like 4 hours.

It's amazing fan service to the people who know about that box art and it's origin. Which clearly isn't you.

See? Panda agrees with you Enzo, so you know you're wrong.

 

[enzo_gt]

Also Enzo, you failed to answer my core question: if SFxT Megaman is meant as fan service, who is it fan service for? Who is supposed to be happy and excited to play as that fat slob?

Spoiler

inb4 Rufus

I did in the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted. It's not some random depiction of Megaman, it has a source that only a certain subset of people who know about Megaman would know about, the hardcore of the hardcore (hell, I could even recognize where they got it from and why it was a cool, and above all unique way to throw a bone to fans and I'm definitely not a fan of Megaman games outside of BN). Put with more flavour:

He's a fat slob because an american artist drew that in like 4 hours.

It's amazing fan service to the people who know about that box art and it's origin. Which clearly isn't you.

I wish developers in general did more of those types of in-franchise references for franchises I care more about.

 

[vulva]

No idea what ViewtifulJC posted, but no way am I watching a 6 minute video to find out.

He isn't fat in that picture, still.

Also, in SFxT he has a really dopey sounding voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TR8TtmD60A&t=1m

Edit: Watch the Megaman ending in that video. He's a complete doofus.

Also Enzo, you failed to answer my core question: if SFxT Megaman is meant as fan service, who is it fan service for? Who is supposed to be happy and excited to play as that fat slob?

Spoiler

inb4 Rufus

Not all trolling is to incite anger. I do not think this is all done unintentionally. I do think that westerners feel differently about it than Capcom does, likely. Hell, Capcom thinks the west doesn't even like Megaman according to S-Kill. Who knows what other loony crap they think.

Capcom were going for nostalgia with MM around that time. Around the same time, bad box art mega man was announced for the now cancelled mega man universe. I think they thought people had senses of humour and could laugh about it while they laughed at their own past mistakes.

 

[CPS2]

The big problem with MegaMan is customer expectation. You can't deviate too far from the old games because the core fanbase will revolt, but you also can't just make a clone of an old game because it's market appeal is limited to nostalgia. It's a poisonous IP.

Pretty much. I'm surprised we're still talking about platform game mascots from the 90's to begin with. There's plenty of MM games out there and I think real fans should be trying to speedrun them or something rather than always looking for new ways to be offended.

 

[enzo_gt]

The big problem with MegaMan is customer expectation. You can't deviate too far from the old games because the core fanbase will revolt, but you also can't just make a clone of an old game because it's market appeal is limited to nostalgia. It's a poisonous IP.

I think this is alleviated by there being sub-brands for Megaman. You want classic? Go play 9 and 10.

The problem is, now they have a bevy of expectation to meet for different franchises. They need a new one. That is not an iOS game/runner or whateverthefuck Xover was.

Another issue with expectations is that fans have theorized many different, seemingly legitimate directions to take the series. Imagine a 3D sword action adventure with Zero. But realistically, I can't think of any AAA use of the property that will make Megaman big time again, and I think Capcom/investors know that. Legends 3 was their best bet, but it's cancelled, and was intended for a shrinking mobile space. There is no good venue for traditional conceptions of a Megaman game. The GRIN prototype sort of supports this idea.

 

[Dahbomb]

Pretty much. I'm surprised we're still talking about platform game mascots from the 90's to begin with. There's plenty of MM games out there and I think real fans should be trying to speedrun them or something rather than always looking for new ways to be offended.

Hey man that hasn't stopped Nintendo from making Mario games!

 

[Tik-Tok]

I think this is alleviated by there being sub-brands for Megaman. You want classic? Go play 9 and 10.

The problem is, now they have a bevy of expectation to meet for different franchises. They need a new one. That is not an iOS game/runner or whateverthefuck Xover was.

Another issue with expectations is that fans have theorized many different, seemingly legitimate directions to take the series. Imagine a 3D sword action adventure with Zero. But realistically, I can't think of any AAA use of the property that will make Megaman big time again, and I think Capcom/investors know that. Legends 3 was their best bet, but it's cancelled, and was intended for a shrinking mobile space. There is no good venue for traditional conceptions of a Megaman game. The GRIN prototype sort of supports this idea.

They need Megaman Legends 3.

I'm not even a huge fan of that series, and I realize that's the best way to make Megaman fans happy at this point.

Then a new X game that doesn't suck. If you want something completely new play that No. 9 game or whatever.

 

[donkey show]

Streaming some Gaf matches right now: http://www.twitch.tv/gevurah22

 

[enzo_gt]

They need Megaman Legends 3.

I'm not even a huge fan of that series, and I realize that's the best way to make Megaman fans happy at this point.

Then a new X game that doesn't suck. If you want something completely new play that No. 9 game or whatever.

For a long time I thought they'd reveal a resurrected MML3 at the latest Captivate during whatever anniversary year it was as a big surprise and then... they didn't. Because they cancelled Captivate and stopped doing them altogether.

Having expectations for Japanese pubs is a thing of the past. They're focus is too hard to read and often involves changing or compromising audiences (BoF, RE, MM).

 

[Flying High]

For a long time I thought they'd reveal a resurrected MML3 at the latest Captivate during whatever anniversary year it was as a big surprise and then... they didn't. Because they cancelled Captivate and stopped doing them altogether.

Having expectations for Japanese pubs is a thing of the past. They're focus is too hard to read and often involves changing or compromising audiences (BoF, RE, MM).

I wish they made a real sequel to BoF, or have either Ryu or Nina in Capcom All Stars!

 

[Parallax Scroll]

megaman 9 and 10 owned and it's too bad they didn't keep going

 

[vocab]

I think battlenetwork games kinda dumped on the reputation for a while. I would of bought mml3. They could of release 1 and 2 remake, and I would of bought that too.

 

[GooeyHeat]

megaman 9 and 10 owned and it's too bad they didn't keep going

If by "keep going" you mean make a SNES-styled Mega Man X9, complete with the classic screaming electric guitar soundfont, then yes, I agree.

Perhaps they could make it tongue-in-cheek like Mega Man 9 and 10 and have Zero die in a cutscene after the intro stage, then again after you beat four mavericks, then again after you beat all 8, and then again after each Sigma stage.

 

[Rhapsody]

Playing TvC right now for fun. Forgot this game even had negative edging. Also going from Marvel Zero to TvC Zero's a bit odd. I don't know if it's my converter but alternating buttons for charging is weird in this game. It's not that it's strict, but you have to hold the previous button for a tiny bit longer (than Marvel 3) while holding the new button before releasing it.

Edit: All this Mega Man talk makes me sad there isn't really a new game for quite awhile. I miss the days when we got 2 games a year.

 

[pixelish]

so i just got back from the heart of gaming which is (i think) london's only proper arcade. i was glad that they have time crisis 2 and daytona which i have not played for a really long time and they even have typing of the dead with keyboards on an arcade cabinet! maybe it was a tuesday night but the place was really quiet (around 20 people were there). there were small groups of players playing ttt2 and kof at the consoles area but my uni friends and i were the only ones there playing sf4.

anyone here been to hog? i wonder how the crowd is during the weekend. i really want this place to be sustainable but from my experience so far, it looks like it'll die soon.

 

[Seyavesh]

I don't know what you read.

DMC4's projected sales were 1.8-2.2 million, it ended up selling 2.9 million. It was never referred to as a flop so I don't know where you read that (probably on GAF where people use revisionist history a lot).

DMC3 didn't sell way way more than DMC2, it ended just over 2 million. Just a bit more than DMC2 when you count both DMC3 and SE.

DMC4 is the highest selling DMC game in the series. DmC at lowest, it was projected to sell at 2 million, then the projection was lowered to 1.2 million.

yeah, it's just stuff said on neogaf or SA. i don't really source stuff since i'll just take the numbers at face value but i think the point still somewhat stands overall despite that though. (that capcom ain't know what the fuck, but at least they're trying. though in a really saddening way)

man that's super depressing about dmc4's sales being so great then. dead rising 2 was truly a blessing and a curse upon capcom.

however dmc3 combined only slightly selling more than dmc2 is like, a true travesty. that sequel effect is way too real. re7's gonna have such terrible sales 'cuz of re6.. man!

 

[Dahbomb]

however dmc3 combined only slightly selling more than dmc2 is like, a true travesty.

It's actually a miracle it ended up selling more in the long run. I can totally understand not touching the series after DMC2.

 

[jbug617]

Troll?

@evo2k: Announcing Evo Retro! - We will be playing games from the past only! CvS2, 3S, MvC2, and ST. Details Soon! #EvoRetro

 

[Karsticles]

Troll?

No UMvC3?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Is the Break not happening tonight? Not seeing anything on hitbox

 

[Lambda Pie]

hitbox.tv/8wayrun

Break is live now.

 

[Karsticles]

.