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[Salvor.Hardin]

Did no one in the Xbox executive team realize how valuable Bungie was beyond the Halo series and the potential they had in creating a new franchise for the company?

Bungie has been hailed as one of, if not the best fps dev in the industry for over a decade now. Surely MS would trust them enough to work on something new rather than forcing them to become a perpetual Halo womb. It's stuff like this that makes me wish MS treated its internal teams more like Sony treats ND.

Props to MS for letting Bungie go their own way without destroying them, something truly exemplary for an acquiring company as large as MS. But the fact that it came to the point where Bungie didn't feel comfortable at MS any more is what truly confounds me. How do you let relations with your premier dev erode like that?

 

[Vashetti]

Did no one in the Xbox executive team realize how valuable Bungie was beyond the Halo series and the potential they had in creating a new franchise for the company?

Bungie has been hailed as one of, if not the best fps dev in the industry for over a decade now. Surely MS would trust them enough to work on something new rather than forcing them to become a perpetual Halo womb. It's stuff like this that makes me wish MS treated its internal teams more like Sony treats ND.

Props to MS for letting Bungie go their own way without destroying them, something truly exemplary for an acquiring company as large as MS. But the fact that it came to the point where Bungie didn't feel comfortable at MS any more is what truly confounds me. How do you let relations with your premier dev erode like that?

I thought Bungie had to buy themselves out of the MS contract?

 

[Tagyhag]

Money is money, it's safer to use an IP known to sell millions than a new one entirely.

Is there a chance the new IP could be bigger than the original one? Sure. But sometimes it's not worth the risk.

 

[Steverulez]

Shane Kim was running Xbox first party at that stage I believe?

I did find an article with one of the guys who ran first party studios from the other day interesting that after Halo a small team were allowed to go off and make a new IP whilst the of the staff made Halo 2 and they made a significant hash of it which meant it was delayed and they had to get the other people back to finish it off.

Doesn't surprise me that after all that happening they didn't let them move off Halo...

 

[jaypah]

Halo was selling stupid. As long as it was putting up the numbers they wanted Bungie to keep making them. Had Halo 2 or 3 only sold "decently" they may have let them do something different. Who knows?

 

[Hellshy.]

They wanted out and sold off the Halo Ip to make it happen. It was a business deal that MS won b\c like you said if they stayed Bungie probably would have lost its magic along with many key team members.

 

[PoloBlue28]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

 

[Ryu]

I always figured to an executive on paper, it was pretty simple:

Halo - GUARANTEED to make at least $xxx in millions.

New IP - MAY POSSIBLY make at least $xx in millions.

Given that, you always go after the certainty and make guaranteed money. Risk is... risky.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Money is money, it's safer to use an IP known to sell millions than a new one entirely.

Is there a chance the new IP could be bigger than the original one? Sure. But sometimes it's not worth the risk.

Sure but they were going to end up creating 343 to carry Halo forward in either case, right? The only two realistic situations were that either MS let Bungie create a new IP, or Bungie was going to buyout.

 

[Vladmiris]

Didn't they do the same thing to Rare? Creatively, I mean: Shoot down all their new ideas and shoebox them into making Kinect stuff?

 

[The Cartographer]

The real question is why Bungie thought that working on another franchise for the next ten years was a good idea.

They clearly stopped liking devolping Halo games after Halo 2 and I'm sure that the same shit will happen with Destiny.

 

[Mugatu]

This is what happens when companies buy each other - it never works out or very, very rarely.

This is why Facebook buying Oculus will result in nothing good.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Yeah; if MS had let Bungie create something new after Halo 3 I don't think they would have wanted to leave. You would think this would be a warning to MS to give their developers a bit more leeway, but instead we get Lionhead being a Fable factory, Turn 10 working on nothing but Forza (and they even have to draft in another studio because they want annual Forzas), Rare being stuck with Kinect and most recently Black Tusk's new game being canned in favour of more Gears.

Maybe they'll allow 343i to develop something new after Halo 5, but I doubt it. They'll always be able to hire in new talent, but they'll haemorrhage a lot too because the devs will be in demand and they won't want to work on Halo forever.

 

[AgentP]

MS likes to milk, easy money. Fable/Forza/Halo. Fable is essentially dead, but they will have Gears to replace it.

 

[Anion]

MS likes to milk, easy money. Fable/Forza/Halo. Fable is essentially dead, but they will have Gears to replace it.

Who doesn't milk these days to be honest?

 

[cakely]

No props to Microsoft, they used Bungie for two console generations as a Halo making machine.

I'm happy to see Bungie intact and working on their own projects now.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

They wanted out and sold off the Halo Ip to make it happen. It was a business deal that MS won b\c like you said if they stayed Bungie probably would have lost its magic along with many key team members.

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

I always figured to an executive on paper, it was pretty simple:

Halo - GUARANTEED to make at least $xxx in millions.

New IP - MAY POSSIBLY make at least $xx in millions.

Given that, you always go after the certainty and make guaranteed money. Risk is... risky.

Halo was selling stupid. As long as it was putting up the numbers they wanted Bungie to keep making them. Had Halo 2 or 3 only sold "decently" they may have let them do something different. Who knows?

It wasn't a zero sum game. Didn't MS own the Halo franchise? They could have had a new Bungie ip with 343 continuing on with Halo.

My question is that when it became clear they would have to develop a whole new Halo team called 343, why didn't they just let Bungie do whatever they wanted to do at MS?

 

[todd360]

The real question is why Bungie thought that working on another franchise for the next ten years was a good idea.

They clearly stopped liking devolping Halo games after Halo 2 and I'm sure that the same shit will happen with Destiny.

Perhaps they feel strongly about their new IP. It certainly sounds like a world filled with great potential.

 

[RurouniZel]

Bungie: We's like to make a new IP please?

MS: No.

Bungie: ;_;

 

[Mooreberg]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

You may be underestimating Activision's marketing muscle. My guess is they expect Destiny to be bigger than Halo for the next ten years.

 

[R3TRO]

Trying to make Bungie into a Halo factory.


Hopefully Bungie can keep a certain quality level with Destiny and it's sequels/expansions because they certainly made each Halo game worse after Halo 2.

 

[Alric]

The real question is why Bungie thought that working on another franchise for the next ten years was a good idea.

They clearly stopped liking devolping Halo games after Halo 2 and I'm sure that the same shit will happen with Destiny.

You're right, they should make another Myth game instead. We could use another Real-Time Strategy/Tactical game.

 

[Dragonborn]

It's pretty crazy, MS should have just offered Bungie a blank check and creative freedom, but I'd never expect them to do such a thing. They operate by making each studio a farm for a certain franchise and nothing else. It's one of the big reasons I completely dislike their first party roster.

Destiny as an X1 exclusive would have been a huge deal, yet now it's pushing PS4 more than anything. Weird how things change so much.

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

I'm am almost certain that Destiny will be better than anything 343i ever puts out. Bungie made the right call by leaving MS.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now 343i will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

FTFY

 

[todd360]

You may be underestimating Activision's marketing muscle. My guess is they expect Destiny to be bigger than Halo for the next ten years.

This. Its time to prove to the world that new IPs can do well. Destiny will be amazing.

 

[NoPiece]

Halo was selling stupid. As long as it was putting up the numbers they wanted Bungie to keep making them. Had Halo 2 or 3 only sold "decently" they may have let them do something different. Who knows?

They should have done what Naughty Dog did, add a second team. Keep one team on the guaranteed money, and built a second team to work on new IP. Activision should have done the same with Infinity Ward, and they'd be owning CoD and Titanfall right now.

 

[JaseC]

I thought Bungie had to buy themselves out of the MS contract?

Yes, but the point is that Bungie had no bargaining power. The company was a subsidiary, not a "second party". Microsoft was under no obligation to let Bungie go free.

 

[Vashetti]

Maybe they'll allow 343i to develop something new after Halo 5, but I doubt it. They'll always be able to hire in new talent, but they'll haemorrhage a lot too because the devs will be in demand and they won't want to work on Halo forever.

Nope. Halo 4 was announced as the start of a new trilogy, so Halo 6 is an inevitability.

 

[th4tguy]

It wasn't a zero sum game. Didn't MS own the Halo franchise? They could have had a new Bungie ip with 343 continuing on with Halo.

My question is that when it became clear they would have to develop a whole new Halo team called 343, why didn't they just let Bungie do whatever they wanted to do at MS?

It wasn't just about creative freedom. Bungie wanted some of that multi-console release pie. A lot of first party devs go through that thought process. If their franchise game sells 12 million on one console, imagine the numbers ($$$) it would get if it came out on all the systems. You have to remember that this is appealing even to non exec/ high up employees as most of these companies offer profit share bonuses.

 

[Bowler]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

Oh so you have played destiny I presume?

 

[Chill Penguin]

I always figured to an executive on paper, it was pretty simple:

Halo - GUARANTEED to make at least $xxx in millions.

New IP - MAY POSSIBLY make at least $xx in millions.

Given that, you always go after the certainty and make guaranteed money. Risk is... risky.

I think that's kind of the OP's point. They only saw value in the IP, not the developer. If they were able to realize Bungie's talent they could've had 343 work on Halo and let Bungie do what they wanted to. Had they played their cards right they could've had Halo, Destiny, and Titanfall all exclusive to Xbox One. Imagine that.

 

[SomeOneInaHat]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

The fuck are you on about?

 

[Raide]

I guess at some point is was more about the Halo name and less about the studio that made it. Both MS and Bungie did really well out of it, especially since Bungie got to move on and they now have a name behinds them when they talk about new IP.

 

[JaseC]

Nope. Halo 4 was announced as the start of a new trilogy, so Halo 6 is an inevitability.

More to the point, 343i was formed specifically to continue the Halo brand.

 

[Cornbread78]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

like woah... I'm not sure if your serious here.. From what we've seen of Destiny, it could far surpass anything 343 could possibly cook up. Aside from that, one is a full fps MMO and the other is a 6-8 hour SP game with MP modes, not the same thing... It must be happy hour already...

 

[Digital-Hero]

This is what happens when companies buy each other - it never works out or very, very rarely.

This is why Facebook buying Oculus will result in nothing good.

You don't know that man. Come on.

 

[Dark Octave]

I don't get it either. Should have just gave Halo to 989 or 187 or whatever their called and let Bungie do their own thing. Or like someone above said, expand into two teams, one for Halo and the other for new IPs. But in the end, a company is nothing without it's main people and it's products and MS already had the product and probably a good amount of it's people as well.

In the end though, I'm glad because I'm interested in Destiny and I don't own an XB1.

 

[Texhex]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

Ahahahahahaha.... this is hilarious!

 

[Flame Lord]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

I'm surprised there are people that still feel this way after Halo 4.

 

[Forsaken82]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

ADS ultimately makes it NOT halo.

 

[PoloBlue28]

Halo 4, which was critically acclaimed and sold about 9 million copies, was 343i's first attempt at creating a game.

Bungie will be dividing their attention amongst several platforms and absolutely have to have a ginormous launch to please Activision.

When I said it won't come close, I wasn't referring to quality. I was referring to success.

edit;

If they do somehow end up finding more success with Destiny, then obviously good on them. I'm not hating on Bungie or Destiny, nor do I have any reason to.

 

[FyreWulff]

Yeah; if MS had let Bungie create something new after Halo 3 I don't think they would have wanted to leave. You would think this would be a warning to MS to give their developers a bit more leeway, but instead we get Lionhead being a Fable factory, Turn 10 working on nothing but Forza (and they even have to draft in another studio because they want annual Forzas), Rare being stuck with Kinect and most recently Black Tusk's new game being canned in favour of more Gears.

Maybe they'll allow 343i to develop something new after Halo 5, but I doubt it. They'll always be able to hire in new talent, but they'll haemorrhage a lot too because the devs will be in demand and they won't want to work on Halo forever.

343 will never make non-Halo games. It's essentially Microsoft's Halo Business Unit.

 

[infinityBCRT]

The real question is why Bungie thought that working on another franchise for the next ten years was a good idea.

They clearly stopped liking devolping Halo games after Halo 2 and I'm sure that the same shit will happen with Destiny.

The thing that makes me crazy is that Destiny could've easily been set in the Halo universe. I thought they were going to do a big departure from what they were doing before when they wanted to leave MS. And while the online/borderlands/mmo stuff is, it all still could've worked as a Halo game.

 

[Yoda]

Shortsightedness on Microsoft's part. They don't value the creative talent anywhere close to as much as they should. Destiny is going to overshadow Halo big-time and I imagine Microsoft could have brokered a deal in which Bungie stayed on as a First party but simply didn't work on Halo.

 

[FyreWulff]

Halo 4, which was critically acclaimed and sold about 9 million copies, was 343i's first attempt at creating a game.

First day sales were certainly helped by the way Bungie had built up the brand. It's also the fastest bleeding-out Halo in history, losing most of it's population and falling out of the Top 10 on Live less than a year from launch, while Halo 3 stayed there for 3 years. Reach also remained in the Top 10 until Halo 4 came out.

 

[PoloBlue28]

First day sales were certainly helped by the way Bungie had built up the brand. It's also the fastest bleeding-out Halo in history, losing most of it's population and falling out of the Top 10 on Live less than a year from launch, while Halo 3 stayed there for 3 years.

You just missed the point spectacularly, but carry on.

 

[Handy Fake]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

I'm glad a few people have pulled this up, I was sitting here throthing at the mouth trying to compose a civilised reply but I ended up wearing out my O, F, C, U and K keys and had to replace the keyboard.

 

[Tawpgun]

Microsoft chose Halo over Bungie and they chose right. Now Bungie will be making a game that looks like Halo, feels like Halo but doesn't come close for the next 10 years.

This. If the choice was keep the Halo IP going or keep bungie, I would have kept Halo. Purely from a business perspective.

Destiny looks really cool but just based on the feat alone, I think its unlikely you'll see Destiny reach the popular and iconic levels of what Halo has achieved.

Still love Bungie though. Wish they stayed on board.

 

[sangreal]

Shortsightedness on Microsoft's part. They don't value the creative talent anywhere close to as much as they should. Destiny is going to overshadow Halo big-time and I imagine Microsoft could have brokered a deal in which Bungie stayed on as a First party but simply didn't work on Halo.

They wouldn't have to broker any deal; Bungie was part of MS. They had no more bargaining power than Rare would have in an attempt to stop making Kinect game.

Bungie's next big creative idea was Destiny and MS probably didn't think it was worth the huge investment that game is turning out to be. The rest of the studio (non-creative talent) can and has been replaced

I think people are overestimating Destiny anyway. I mean, I think it will be succesful but more Borderlands than Call of Duty levels of success.

 

[Nafai1123]

MS fucked up. No IP is more valuable than a premiere studio that can give you multiple IP's.