Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 6: Final Destination confirmed for not fun

georly said:
Ok, so the more I think about it, the more I like my idea. I think 'First to X number of kills' is way more fair for online than Time or Stock. It forces you to have to fight, and not get a lucky kill or two and run away.

First to X number of kills explains why we don't see stock or don't see a timer in the online footage as well.

It could also be easily tweaked for modes. First to 3 kills in 1v1 glory, first to 5 kills in 4-player glory, first to 7 kills in For Fun (due to items/final smashes). It prevents really cheap strategies and forces you to HAVE to attack your opponent and not run away. I like it a lot.

Still doesn't fix the 'final destination only' making some characters better than others.
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What's the difference from timed? Even if you do whale on a guy, someone could just as easily run up and steal your kill. Whoever gets the kill still gets credit for it. Stock (with a timer perhaps) is still the way it should be done.
 
Sceptile does actually seem like the natural choice. He's one of only two bipedal grass-type starters, and it'd be odd but not impossible for Gen 6 to get two starter reps.
 
Axass said:
He's referring to Brawl having 39 characters.
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Correct. And the guy who posted it is referring to the fact that sakurai considers the Pokemon trainer's 3 pokemon, sheik, and zss as SEPARATE characters, even though to character select doesn't. That's literally the only point he's trying to make.
 
Troubled Bat said:
Cut Cut Cut: Snake, Jiggly, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Mewtwo, Roy. Gone!

*runs away*
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WOW, your avatar suited you! Your mouth/mind is just ugly as your avatar!

YoP7SLL.jpg


I'm kidding. Don't hate me! I want to make a reference with your loser avatar and your stance on cut :P
 
I can't wait for summer. I need my Smash Bros fix ;(. Maybe I should boot up Melee and play against AI. Or clear all those event matches. I hope those return, loved those
 
TomShoe said:
What's the difference from timed? Even if you do whale on a guy, someone could just as easily run up and steal your kill. Whoever gets the kill still gets credit for it. Stock (with a timer perhaps) is still the way it should be done.
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Unlike timed, you can't get 1 kill and run away the rest of the fight. If you HAVE to get 3 kills to win, then you can't run away. If nobody gets 3 kills within whatever the timelimit is, then it's a draw and nobody wins. It prevents turtling and running away. It makes you actually have to fight your opponent, and be better than them. It still makes 'last hits' important for 4 player, sure, but 1v1 it prevents fast characters from being cheap.
 
TomShoe said:
What's the difference from timed? Even if you do whale on a guy, someone could just as easily run up and steal your kill. Whoever gets the kill still gets credit for it. Stock (with a timer perhaps) is still the way it should be done.
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After some thought, I have to agree. "First to X kills" would just inevitably cause problems with Self Destructs - if they have Melee-style SDs than a player could just leap off the stage to prevent a hated opponent from getting a point or to heal themselves if they're at high percentage. Brawl SDs wouldn't fare much better, either, as it would be simple to just wait until a favored opponent hits you and then jump off the stage, giving them the point. It would naturally lend itself to the SD abuse Sakurai talked about wanting to prevent, which seems like a silly oversight if ever there was one.

Stock is still the best and most fair mode for all purposes, and I hope Sakurai realizes that before release.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
After some thought, I have to agree. "First to X kills" would just inevitably cause problems with SDs - if they have Melee-style SDs than a player could just leap off the stage to prevent a hated opponent from getting a point or to heal themselves if they're at high percentage. Brawl SDs wouldn't fare much better, either, as it would be simple to just wait until a favored opponent hits you and then jump off the stage, giving them the point. It would naturally lend itself to the SD abuse Sakurai talked about wanting to prevent, which seems like a silly oversight if ever there was one.

Stock is still the best and most fair mode for all purposes, and I hope Sakurai realizes that before release.
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Just get rid of sudden death. If nobody gets the required amount of kills, it's a 'No Contest' and nobody gets a win or a lose.
 
georly said:
Unlike timed, you can't get 1 kill and run away the rest of the fight. If you HAVE to get 3 kills to win, then you can't run away. If nobody gets 3 kills within whatever the timelimit is, then it's a draw and nobody wins. It prevents turtling and running away. It makes you actually have to fight your opponent, and be better than them. It still makes 'last hits' important for 4 player, sure, but 1v1 it prevents fast characters from being cheap.
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Then you just sit back and kill steal like it's Call of Duty
YAY

besides then you could game the system via SDs
 
Just for info's sake, I was using Brawl and Project M on Dolphin and having it right next to the WebM and timing the jumps properly for about 10-20 times before reaching the conclusions.
Axass said:
Colours everywhere!

YWilACC.png


Next time I'll try to make a custom roster by myself.
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That looks really nice. I think I'm warming up to the idea of a non-uniform character select screen.
 
georly said:
Ok, so the more I think about it, the more I like my idea. I think 'First to X number of kills' is way more fair for online than Time or Stock. It forces you to have to fight, and not get a lucky kill or two and run away.

First to X number of kills explains why we don't see stock or don't see a timer in the online footage as well.

It could also be easily tweaked for modes. First to 3 kills in 1v1 glory, first to 5 kills in 4-player glory, first to 7 kills in For Fun (due to items/final smashes). It prevents really cheap strategies and forces you to HAVE to attack your opponent and not run away. I like it a lot.

Still doesn't fix the 'final destination only' making some characters better than others.
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it's a nice idea but what happens if I suicide? Sure, maybe I get a -1 but I still don't give you a +1, and then it becomes a bit strategic.
 
Jagsrock said:
I really hope by summer they mean late june or early july. Not the end of august or early September...
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I think it will be later rather than sooner. They will still most likely be showing off a bunch of Smash stuff at E3 and I don't expect a release shortly after that. I hope I'm wrong though:P
 
How do you think the circle pad will feel for Smash on 3DS? I'm still getting both versions but I don't really have any games that require a lot of work out of the circle pad for my 3DS.
 
georly said:
Ok, so the more I think about it, the more I like my idea. I think 'First to X number of kills' is way more fair for online than Time or Stock. It forces you to have to fight, and not get a lucky kill or two and run away.

First to X number of kills explains why we don't see stock or don't see a timer in the online footage as well.

It could also be easily tweaked for modes. First to 3 kills in 1v1 glory, first to 5 kills in 4-player glory, first to 7 kills in For Fun (due to items/final smashes). It prevents really cheap strategies and forces you to HAVE to attack your opponent and not run away. I like it a lot.

Still doesn't fix the 'final destination only' making some characters better than others.
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I think this mode would just be "I'm at 80%? Better kill myself."
 
Ichor said:
I think this mode would just be "I'm at 80%? Better kill myself."
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Then whoever hit you last or did the most damage to you gets the kill.

In 1v1, you opponent gets the kill any time you die for any reason.

And, 'did the most damage to you' prevents last hitting, though i think that can become a viable strategy in 4 player anyway
 
georly said:
Then the last person who touched you gets the kill.


Or, the game could be changed so that whoever did the most percent to you gets the kill.

In 1v1, a self destruct just gives your opponent a kill.
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This would work for 1v1, but not otherwise. It's Brawl's style of SD, and it would be easy to break. Wait until a chosen opponent hits you, then kill yourself. Easy way to make said chosen opponent win.

Percentage-based SDs wouldn't work tremendously well, either, as it would favor characters that can do a lot of damage but maybe don't have great kill moves, like PM Sonic.

It's an interesting idea for a mode, but I don't think it would work well. In any case, it wouldn't work as well as Stock - all they need to do is add some sort of minigame (betting coins, perhaps) that players can play if they get KO'd early.
 
Baron von Loathsome said:
I'm going through the Direct, looking for new arrangements of themes from Nintendo games. Here's what I've got:

Tortimer Island Minigame (Animal Crossing: New Leaf)
Ballad of the Goddess (Skyward Sword)
Rocketbarrel Theme (Donkey Kong Country Returns)
Area 6 (Star Fox) (This one sounds different from the Brawl version to me, though again, not 100% sure)
Fairy Fountain Theme (Zelda series)
Gerudo Valley (Ocarina of Time)
Green Greens (Kirby series)
World Map (Pikmin 2)
Flower Garden (Yoshi's Island)
Comet Observatory (Super Mario Galaxy)
Main Theme (Punch-Out series)
Kapp'n's Song (Animal Crossing: New Leaf)
Spark Man's Theme (Mega Man 3)
??? (Wii Fit series) (Showing off WFT)
Opening/Character Select (Super Smash Bros.)
Trainer Battle (Pokemon X & Y)
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I think that's the Training Menu for WFT
 
Cse said:
Honestly, the game speed doesn't seem that different from Brawl. I hope this changes.

The 3DS version actually appears to be significantly faster.
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What if 3DS is for the Melee crowd while U is for the Brawl crowd?
Didn't he say that while they'd share the same roster, they might as well be considered two separate entries in the series.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
This would work for 1v1, but not otherwise. It's Brawl's style of SD, and it would be easy to break. Wait until a chosen opponent hits you, then kill yourself. Easy way to make said chosen opponent win.

Percentage-based SDs wouldn't work tremendously well, either, as it would favor characters that can do a lot of damage but maybe don't have great kill moves, like PM Sonic.

It's an interesting idea for a mode, but I don't think it would work well. In any case, it wouldn't work as well as Stock - all they need to do is add some sort of minigame (betting coins, perhaps) that players can play if they get KO'd early.
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There is no way to make the 'chosen player' hit you in FFA online vs random people. You can try, I suppose, but that's probably not really a viable strategy.

Good point about the damage, though, but then, maybe that's a form of balance, and makes characters who are weaker at knockouts actually have a chance in competitive play.

I honestly think that even though it's 'different', doesn't mean it's wrong. It could be just what the game needs to bring balance to online. Makes fast characters who do a little damage but have good KO moves be on par with slow characters and characters who do decent damage but don't have good KO moves. They can each win in their own way and play to their own strengths.
 
Cse said:
Honestly, the game speed doesn't seem that different from Brawl. I hope this changes.

The 3DS version actually appears to be significantly faster.
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No to the first thing. It looks to be in between Melee and Brawl.

And a DEFINITE NO to the second thing. You may want to look at the 3DS footage again.
 
Easy_D said:
What if 3DS is for the Melee crowd while U is for the Brawl crowd?
Didn't he say that while they'd share the same roster, they might as well be considered two separate entries in the series.
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Seems like it should be the other way around, considering the install bases.
 
theprodigy said:
wait what
let's pretty much the opposite of what everyone else has seen so far
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Yeah seeing the 3ds gameplay yesterday made me realize how similar to brawl it looked in terms of speed and floatiness. The Wii U version wasn't as bad, but still noticeable. Good thing Sakurai said everything we see is a work in progress so the possibility of making changes is there.
 
DeviousAngel said:
If there's one thing we can be sure of is that Ridley won't be playable lol.
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Wanna bet?

If Ridley actually was a stage-hazard boss, Sakurai would have shown it, but he just teased it with a shadow. I wasn't confident that Ridley was making it in before this direct, but now I'm positive he will be.
 
Guys, you can't use direct footage for comparison, since it runs in 30fps.

Also what ever happened to the Zelda Phantom bet
 
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