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[Peru]

As a European this,, or rather the opposite, was actually what baffled me about American sports at first: If seemingly nearly all teams will contend one season or another in a given decade what's really the great achievement in doing so? If the playing field is all the time artificially leveled - rubber band'd in gaming terms - can we even talk about 'good teams' anymore? At least your mid level football (soccer) league team will feel amazing beating a big favourite or even getting close to the top of the table and if they ever actually do win a title, boy, it's that unbelievable highlight of your career as a fan.

I'm a big baseball fan now though, and I can see why attempts are made at taking money advantage away and stuff like that, but in the end I became a Cubs fan maybe because that tiny ray of light, the faint hope that's almost not there makes the wins feel more signifcant.

 

[terrisus]

Also:

I know Everton for instance will never be bad enough to be relegated but they will also never be good enough to fight for the top spot unless some crazy Russian billionaire buys them and decides to go nuts.

Yeah, since 1985 and 1987 were so long ago...

 

[Randdalf]

Why is it so lopsided? Are there no salary caps or anything like that?

Team wins, gets more glory supporters, gets more money, spends it on more players, wins more, etc. It's only really been a problem in the contemporary game which is much more heavily driven by finance.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Most fans are simply rooting for their home team. It's as simple as that.

Yep. Or they have some other connection to them.

 

[NekoFever]

I don't get it. All of our leagues are at least competitive with SOME degree of salary control.

Most people here would hate the way American sports are run. The way a team can be picked up and moved to another city has happened once in English football, for instance, and there are still bodies that refuse to recognise it, including many of its former fans. I've genuinely heard prominent football people saying it forfeited its right to exist and should be kicked out of the league.

If a team's crap, we don't give them first pick to make them competitive. We drop that shit into a lower league and give someone else a chance.

 

[figadapaura]

Lots of people just support the team their parents do. Then they become invested.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

Then what are they?

Bottom, wouldn't even make the WC if they were in UEFA, CONMEBOL, CAF and maybe even AFC

 

[arts&crafts]

The Blue Jays haven't made the playoffs in 20 years, why do i watch it!?!

 

[Hixx]

What do you think of the great Altidore, star striker of the none mid tier country USA.

The last time we got relegated we had a Jon Stead and Andy Gray strikeforce.

He has scored the same amount of league goals as both of those combined ergo he is amazing.

 

[keit4]

My team is shit right now and it was also shit 25 years ago. But hey, we won La Liga in 1999/2000 and it was a beautiful moment, a prize for all the suffering and hard work of the previous years. A fan of a top tier team is never going to experience something like that because they are used to succeed. A victory for them is the norm, a victory for us is something unique and very special.

 

[Allforce]

Yeah I'm curious too as to how there is little to no parity in Euro football.

I read the OP more as "isn't it frustrating?" rather than an attack on fans of those mid-level teams. I know I'd be pissed off if I had a local team I loved that had absolutely no chance at success due to other teams just buying championships.

They try to in the US in most sports but the salary cap limits the scope of how much a team can spend on players. It's still nice to see the teams who spend the most get dropped by a lesser team and gives a ton of hope to those small market teams. I mean the Seattle Seahawks were a laughing stock 5 years ago and now are the most dominant team in the NFL.

 

[akaoni]

My local area is filled with so many sincere Manchester United supporters, before that it was Liverpool, after Man U you had Arsenal and Chelsea supporters coming out of the closet, then it was Manchester City after that. Nothing suspicious about all this of course. This isn't even England by the way.

 

[Sneds]

Yeah I'm curious too as to how there is little to no parity in Euro football.

I read the OP more as "isn't it frustrating?" rather than an attack on fans of those mid-level teams. I know I'd be pissed off if I had a local team I loved that had absolutely no chance at success due to other teams just buying championships.

They try to in the US in most sports but the salary cap limits the scope of how much a team can spend on players. It's still nice to see the teams who spend the most get dropped by a lesser team and gives a ton of hope to those small market teams. I mean the Seattle Seahawks were a laughing stock 5 years ago and now are the most dominant team in the NFL.

If spending caps were put in place it would need to be done at an international level. If England introduce a cap and the rest of Europe don't then the big English clubs are going to be at a disadvantage in the European competitions.

 

[L1NETT]

The last time we got relegated we had a Jon Stead and Andy Gray strikeforce.
.

Oh god

Now we have this exact strikeforce and are facing relegation. HELP

--

On topic, i'm born with supporting my club, nowt can change that. Football clubs to many are far more than winning trophys, it's an institution where the community unities in their support for the team. As a fan it's about being part of summat more, as a collective going through thick and thin.

Bit sappy, but being a fan of anyone is so much more than how many trophies you win or how many billions you spend on Jose Foreign.

 

[Coen]

Why would anyone support the Knicks?

 

[vitacola]

Love, my dear, unconditional love. And probably a lot of local patriotism.

Spoiler

4th league club fan here.

 

[Judderman]

Why would anyone support the Knicks?

I ask myself that everyday.

"Why would I support the Knicks? OH SHIT NICE BLOCK CHANDLER."

 

[Allforce]

If spending caps were put in place it would need to be done at an international level. If England introduce a cap and the rest of Europe don't then the big English clubs are going to be at a disadvantage in the European competitions.

I guess the sports-fan culture is just different, in the US I think most fans ultimate hope is their team to win their respective league's championship. No matter the sport. It's a league and you go out to play every year with the goal of winning the title, full stop.

What's the priority for English football fans for their team? To win the English-only leagues? Or to do well at international competitions? I can see how a salary cap would bone them in the latter, but is that what the majority of fans want?

 

[SamVimes]

Then what are they?

Ugh, yeah they are very much so. Lucky to be in the region they are, and score easy points for the rank list.

I would say a team that is consistently sitting at really low chances of making it out of the group stage doesn't really qualify as mid tier.

 

[Irminsul]

I know I'd be pissed off if I had a local team I loved that had absolutely no chance at success due to other teams just buying championships.

But that's precisely the point: it's not absolutely no chance, it's a minor chance. The same goes for the other direction, the threat of being relegated.

It just can take several years or even decades to achieve either of these things. Or not. Look at Alemannia Aachen in Germany: a few years ago, they played European football, now they're struggling on level four (yes, four) of the league system.

Or Mainz, they once were the "un-promotables" because they often spectacularly failed to get promoted to the Bundesliga. Now they've been a rather stable member of said league for a few years.

 

[Courage]

It can be as basic as being from the city the team originates from to rooting for the underdog. It's a very vague question that is very subjective.

 

[KillerMan91]

The same can be said for any major sports league. Why do people watch the mid level teams? Some people like the local team. Some may like particular players. And some people, some people are just plain crazy.

Stanley cup winners in NHL since lockout:

2006: Caroline Hurricanes
2007: Anaheim Ducks
2008: Detroit Red Wings
2009: Pittsburgh Penguins
2010: Chicago Blackhaws
2011: Boston Bruins
2012: Los Angeles Kings
2013: Chicago Blackhaws

Reason why I really love to follow NHL even despite being European and not seeing games live.

 

[terrisus]

Yeah I'm curious too as to how there is little to no parity in Euro football.

I read the OP more as "isn't it frustrating?" rather than an attack on fans of those mid-level teams. I know I'd be pissed off if I had a local team I loved that had absolutely no chance at success due to other teams just buying championships.

They try to in the US in most sports but the salary cap limits the scope of how much a team can spend on players. It's still nice to see the teams who spend the most get dropped by a lesser team and gives a ton of hope to those small market teams. I mean the Seattle Seahawks were a laughing stock 5 years ago and now are the most dominant team in the NFL.

Consider this: In the US, unless you're one of the select 30-ish teams in the top division of a particular sport, you're likely never going to be one. It's been quite a while since, for instance, the Western League renamed themselves the American League and declared themselves a competing Major League. The Federal League tried it in the mid-1910s, but since then not too much. Basically since the 1920s there hasn't been much of any upward movement for teams. And while there would be the occasional expansion team or relocated team, they were generally separate teams, not an already-existing team being promoted.

Meanwhile, in, say, the EPL, you can have a town team who starts in, say, the 7th division, who slowly works their way up to the top of the Premier League. That can't happen in the US. If you're a fan of the Toledo Mud Hens, they're always going to be the Toledo Mud Hens, and not much more than a feeder for their parent club.

So, while the existing system allows, say, the Pirates to have 20 straight losing seasons and still be in the same league with the potential to make the playoffs each year, it gives no hope at all for even the most ambitious minor league team to be more than that.

 

[Sneds]

I guess the sports-fan culture is just different, in the US I think most fans ultimate hope is their team to win their respective league's championship. No matter the sport. It's a league and you go out to play every year with the goal of winning the title, full stop.

What's the priority for English football fans for their team? To win the English-only leagues? Or to do well at international competitions? I can see how a salary cap would bone them in the latter, but is that what the majority of fans want?

People's hopes depend on the team they support. Supporters are, somewhat, realistic in their expectations. If you support a big club then you may want to win the Englisj league and the European tournament. If you support a less successful club your hope may be to avoid relegation into a lower league.

 

[beato_angelico]

One of the things I never understood about how European soccer works is people seem to be okay with how non-competitive it is.

The German Bundesliga for instance has been around since 1963 - 51 years. In that time, one team - Bayern Munich, has won 23 championship titles. The English Premier League is dominated by four teams over the last 20 years - although that seems to be changing with Manchester City being bought by a billionaire. In Spain's La Liga, it's pretty much a two team league with Barcelona and Real Madrid vying for top spot every year.

I get why the top flight teams have fans. I also get why the lower run teams have fans, there is drama in wondering whether your team will stay in the big show next year or not.

What I don't understand is why do teams that are on the B-tier continue to have fans. I know Everton for instance will never be bad enough to be relegated but they will also never be good enough to fight for the top spot unless some crazy Russian billionaire buys them and decides to go nuts.

why college, high school and minor league teams have fans when you have the professional leagues?

 

[Broder Salsa]

I would say a team that is consistently sitting at really low chances of making it out of the group stage doesn't really qualify as mid tier.

Just making it to the group stage is at least something though, which the countless small countries that has never even won a football match can only dream of.

 

[jonnyp]

One of the things I never understood about how European soccer works is people seem to be okay with how non-competitive it is.

The German Bundesliga for instance has been around since 1963 - 51 years. In that time, one team - Bayern Munich, has won 23 championship titles. The English Premier League is dominated by four teams over the last 20 years - although that seems to be changing with Manchester City being bought by a billionaire. In Spain's La Liga, it's pretty much a two team league with Barcelona and Real Madrid vying for top spot every year.

I get why the top flight teams have fans. I also get why the lower run teams have fans, there is drama in wondering whether your team will stay in the big show next year or not.

What I don't understand is why do teams that are on the B-tier continue to have fans. I know Everton for instance will never be bad enough to be relegated but they will also never be good enough to fight for the top spot unless some crazy Russian billionaire buys them and decides to go nuts.

Are you really serious OP? I don't understand gloryhunters. What's the fun knowing your team is going to win almost every match?

People support your so-called B-tier teams for lots of different reasons. Some because it's their local club, some because they studied/worked in a town/city and started supporting the local club. Some because the first match they ever saw live or on TV featured the team they started supporting. A lot of people "inherit" their parents' favourite club. Some really like one player on a specific team and become a fan of that club.

And I respect people a lot more who choose to be fans of your so called B-tier teams.

 

[akaoni]

Top Scottish League winners (by # wins)
Club Wins
Rangers 54
Celtic 45
Heart of Midlothian 4
The rest below

How people find this shit exciting I don't know.

 

[Coen]

I'd rather support a club like Atletico and enjoy the high of a win like tonight's than support Barcelona and be disappointed when the team doesn't win everything there's to win for a change. It's the decades of being in the shadows that make the moment in the limelight.

 

[Hixx]

Oh god

Now we have this exact strikeforce and are facing relegation. HELP

Two leagues lower than we were in at the time.

Mick McCarthy. Premier League GENIUS.

 

[Towels]

I support a Championship club (that's the league below the Premier League) and over the years have enjoyed a roller coaster ride of relegation and promotion. My biggest fear, is that one day, my club will be competitive enough to be a mid level Premier League capable of finishing 7th in the league every season.

 

[SamVimes]

Just making it to the group stage is at least something though, which the countless small countries that has never even won a football match can only dream of.

Fair enough, though it's not really fair to compare it to the countless countries that can barely find 20 people ready to play.

 

[Sneds]

I support a Championship club (that's the league below the Premier League) and over the years have enjoyed a roller coaster ride of relegation and promotion. My biggest fear, is that one day, my club will be competitive enough to be a mid level Premier League capable of finishing 7th in the league every season.

That happened to my club but it passed and now we're back in the Championship so don't worry!

 

[L1NETT]

All you folks who support championship clubs, why don't we see yous very often in the footy thread?

We could do with more club's voices represented! Pop in and say hello

 

[Allforce]

Consider this: In the US, unless you're one of the select 30-ish teams in the top division of a particular sport, you're likely never going to be one. It's been quite a while since, for instance, the Western League renamed themselves the American League and declared themselves a competing Major League. The Federal League tried it in the mid-1910s, but since then not too much. Basically since the 1920s there hasn't been much of any upward movement for teams. And while there would be the occasional expansion team or relocated team, they were generally separate teams, not an already-existing team being promoted.

Meanwhile, in, say, the EPL, you can have a town team who starts in, say, the 7th division, who slowly works their way up to the top of the Premier League. That can't happen in the US. If you're a fan of the Toledo Mud Hens, they're always going to be the Toledo Mud Hens, and not much more than a feeder for their parent club.

So, while the existing system allows, say, the Pirates to have 20 straight losing seasons and still be in the same league with the potential to make the playoffs each year, it gives no hope at all for even the most ambitious minor league team to be more than that.

How odd an example, I am from Toledo and grew up a season-ticket holder to the Hens!

 

[Effnine]

Has there ever been talk of an all Europe league ... kind of like how the NFL is structured? Is Champion's League the closest we can get?

 

[Sneds]

Has there ever been talk of an all Europe league ... kind of like how the NFL is structured? Is Champion's League the closest we can get?

Every so often there's talk of a European Super League. I don't think it's ever been close to happening.

 

[terrisus]

How odd an example, I am from Toledo and grew up a season-ticket holder to the Hens!

Well isn't that a coincidence?
Oh, by the way, I love what you've done with your living room. I think you should put the couch against the other wall though.

Spoiler

>.>

 

[Allforce]

Well isn't that a coincidence?
Oh, by the way, I love what you've done with your living room. I think you should put the couch against the other wall though.

Spoiler

>.>

what the fuck

 

[terrisus]

what the fuck

I'm kidding, don't worry

Spoiler

Or am I?...

Spoiler

I'm kidding

 

[Ushojax]

It's not about winning titles. You have a team and you follow them, for most people it's their local team or one their family supports.

My team hasn't won a league title for half a century but I still feel good when they win a game. It's about being entertained and winning games, not being obsessed with titles.

 

[Allforce]

I'm legit shook right now

 

[bodyboarder]

Most of my local teams haven't played well in a few years, still happy to support them. Mainly due to them being local so I can easily go a see a game, that and to lazy to pick new teams.

 

[Tugatrix]

Has there ever been talk of an all Europe league ... kind of like how the NFL is structured? Is Champion's League the closest we can get?

There have been, but still it is not an appealing idea for the teams, that would imply that many teams wouldn't win anything in a regular basis when they are used to win national championships

 

[inky]

I've never seen a man age so much in such a short stretch of time.

He was 100 years old by the time the third goal went in.

Spoiler

Fuck him.

 

[Sneds]

Who do you support??

Bolton. But I don't follow football as closely as I used to which is why I'm not a regular in the community thread.

 

[CrunchyB]

Why is it so lopsided? Are there no salary caps or anything like that?

Nope, money rules, it is very uneven by design. Huge of gaps between teams in the same country, never mind across Europe. Budget is the best predictor of success too.

But that makes it all the more fun when a very rich team flops (lol @ ManU), which happens very frequently. With solid management and a bit of luck, smaller teams can still win stuff. Rooting for the underdog can be great fun, as long as they win some games, every now and then.

That said, I'd prefer it if the current CL/EL reward system gets retooled. Right now the rich are always getting richer. Some more redistribution of wealth is vital to the survival of domestic leagues IMO.

In the Dutch Eredivisie Ajax is (by far) the richest club, they made about 100 million last year. 20 million originated from the Champion's League. Meanwhile lowly RKC has a 5 million budget and not a chance to reach the CL. So the gap keeps getting wider.

 

[Diprosalic]

It's like the world cup to me. if we go to the QF everybody freaks out and has a great time, other nations are happy by just making it there, for others only winning the whole thing is what counts.

Also there's other kinds of cups to win. Apart from each nations championship there usually 1-2 different cups, the champions league and the uefa europa league which you can qualify for even if you don't win the championship.

 

[Kurita]

I'm a European guy who supports the Arizona Cardinals just because their logo is f'n cool.
And it feels good when they win since they're shitty. Seeing the underdogs winning is satisfying as hell.

 

[alexthekid]

It not just about winning titles, i am swedish and follow Newcastle United, seen a couple of games live in nufc(i dont pretend to be as real as a local. Nufc is really the kind of club you are talking about. And not competing for the title doesnt bug me at all. We all have out own expectations and goals.

The thing that is really frustrating though, is knowing that you are a feeder team, that most of the players would jump on the first chance for a top club