Hyperactivity
Banned
YUM
We should actually get Mrs. Pacman. Look at this beauty
Yeah, there was no way I would risk putting the original arcade caninet design. Cutting it to close for me
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 6: Final Destination confirmed for not fun
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
YUM
We should actually get Mrs. Pacman. Look at this beauty
Then it's done. Just set the parameters of the punishment for losing. And don't be a wimp about it, I'm willing to go a year with whatever terrible avatar is chosen.
Well, it's not like ban bets are allowed anymore, so we work with what we have.
Care to take the wager on this?
Argh, people keep saying this, as if Melee was completely brilliant. The fact is, some of the changes in Melee were huge downgrades from Smash 64, and some of the changes in Brawl were improvements over Melee. Being able to air dodge multiple times makes for a more complex air game, which is what Sakurai wanted. The fact that it also cancelled hitstun broke it though.
I expect Sakurai's goal isn't to 'fix what was wrong with Brawl', but rather to make a game that is better than all the previous versions.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I was very impressed with Sakurai's choices and numbers of new items, assist trophies and pokemon. I'm pretty sure that you are more likely to be right but I'm going to be cautious about my hype tho.
Look like Sakurai and the teams are going to work very hard on this project and make sure that the games would delivers.
Two weeks.
...........if you ACTUALLY followed the conversation instead of blindly looking for avatar bets, you would notice I am talking about the lava spewing out from the stage not being there.
Apologies, wasn't sure how much of what you agreed with him on since you quoted the whole thing.
Alright, we're good. See you in the summer.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Fun games btw. Heard you were playing some games, nice!
I got eyes everywhere hahah
And the beautiful thing about this is that it doesn't negatively affect the non-competitive players, but it's there should they ever reach new tiers of skill level.
Used a Brawl cheat on Dolphin that canceled all air attacks automatically and it felt great actually. I wouldn't mind if it was on by default, but in the recent direct you could see the poor landing lag for Yoshi's dair ;'\
Link?
Dimitri LH
Member
Ridley bet....Ridley bet....No I cant. I gotta stick with the Palutena one first.
The Xtortionist
Member
Agreed. Manually having to L cancel would be fine if there was some level of decision making involved...but there's really never a reason to land slowly like that. Make it automatic or kill it across the board.
Is Mario's dash attack the same as before or different?
What is he doing in the bottom left screen at :52?
What is he doing in the bottom left screen at :52?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Excessive landing lag like Link's dair should never be a thing in Smash Bros. IMO. They should either give us the control to cancel it so it's skill-based (again, also doesn't impact people who don't know about it, yet naturally increases the skill gap* or make it automatic by default.
There shouldn't be a situation where they say "well, let's just remove it and let players adjust to moves with long lag times" because you know what? Those kinds of moves go unused comparatively and if I had a say in it, I'd rather all my moves be useful, which is what canceling landing lag does so you don't get stuck, allowing you to chain combos more efficiently.
*I should also note how I think there should be an Advanced Tutorials section detailing Smash's advanced tech; everything from simple quick recoveries when you're falling to spacing attacks based on hitboxes, priority, etc.
EDIT:
Looks like his forward tilt:
EDIT:
Looks like his forward tilt:
Oh, ok.
This sounds like the argument for competitive Pokemon and how IVs (hidden stat values that most people don't know about) makes it skill-based and doesn't affect people who don't know about it.
It does affect people who don't know about it and there is no reason for anyone not to use it every time so I don't see a reason to NOT make it automatic other than "skill".
I really don't see why some competitive players want to keep these silly things to make it harder for more people to get into competitive stuff. That's not how it is going to work.
theprodigy
Member
I don't agree with keeping L-Canceling as is, but there's an incredibly obvious difference here, in that IVs are always present regardless of your actions but L-Cancels are not.
You're right, but I was looking at it from a different way (and really, what you said is a given considering I just used Pokemon which is a turn-based RPG lol). L-Cancelling and IVs aren't really what determine skill. It is everything outside of that.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
His boxing gloves say otherwise.
The Xtortionist
Member
Right. The determining factors should be strategy, tactics, and mind games. If an action doesn't require the player to consider any of those three before executing it, nix it or make it automatic. There's no player out there that would make a thoughtful decision to not L cancel an attack. It tests the skill to press the button at the right time, sure, but is a thoughtless input a skill worth testing in the first place? I definitely think not.
I'm agreeing with you btw, this is just kind of a broader game design thing I feel strongly about.
Troubled Bat
Member
Oi!
I'll ask this again, does anybody think that Retro characters are out in this game?
Melee: Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers
Brawl: Pit and R.O.B.
Just having thoughts on it, and I think it'd be pretty saddening to just end it at Brawl.
I'll ask this again, does anybody think that Retro characters are out in this game?
Melee: Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers
Brawl: Pit and R.O.B.
Just having thoughts on it, and I think it'd be pretty saddening to just end it at Brawl.
Takamaru and Virtual Boy
TheLegendOfCap
Member
Even though Villager made it very unlikely, I think that Takamaru and Balloon Fighter would be perfect candidates for the retroes of this game.
So after picking up Brain Age Concentration Training for $5 at Toys R Us clearance I reeeeeally want Devilish Kawashima for an assist trophy in Smash. He'd fit in perfectly, maybe assault everyone with math problems or something.
Master Hand and Crazy Hand and Giant Floating Head!
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, the pool for old characters are getting smaller every iteration, but I'm still hoping for Takamaru. Also I think Sakurai would considered Little Mac as one of those old character.
Anyone think there will be a low level of newcomers this game? I mean we only know 6 and with the 3DS one coming in summer it doesn't leave a lot of room for new reveals.
It feels like we get one newcomer a month and while some will be kept secret for release I don't see that many overall.
I'll be surprised if we get over 10-12 newcomers. And if Mewtwo returns I'll count him as a newcomer.
It feels like we get one newcomer a month and while some will be kept secret for release I don't see that many overall.
I'll be surprised if we get over 10-12 newcomers. And if Mewtwo returns I'll count him as a newcomer.
Little Mac is kinda sorta one.
I liked the Retro characters but assuming the ones we have already had are back I wouldn't really mind not having any new ones. The biggest one that has a possibility is Takamaru which I could really take or leave (while I liked all of the others).
Takamaru and Mii
SenorArdilla
Member
Shame he got that Punch Out game on the Wii. Now he's only sorta retro.
DisconnectD
Member
So here's a question; just how in the hell is Sakurai going to manage to make a spirit train version of Final destination?
Not all stages will have Final Destination versions.
Interestingly, most 3DS stages don't look like they could have FD versions.
You explained what I meant in a better way. Thanks.
Hyperactivity
Banned
SenorArdilla
Member
Flying trains. Floating toy blocks. Generic 3D Land platform.
Am I the only one thinking the Smash Run map is hiding something about a story mode? Some of the scenery, like this cracked gate-thing here:
Looks like it could be a scene from a story mode.
It also has red and blue lines, like the 3DS and Wii U colors of their respective logos.
Looks like it could be a scene from a story mode.
It also has red and blue lines, like the 3DS and Wii U colors of their respective logos.
WiiRevolution1
Member
What do you guys think of my new avatar? I think its lovely. See? Losing avatar bets can be good.
Also, 30 pages in a day, had to skip 20 of them. Threads so fast.
Also, 30 pages in a day, had to skip 20 of them. Threads so fast.
DisconnectD
Member
I keep seeing people say that Little Mac will be held back from top tier because of his aerial and recovery weakness but we've yet to see if his Neutral B works the same way in the air as it does on the ground and he also has the Jolt haymaker which can be used in the air for horizontal recovery. If his Straight punch works the same way in the air, it will be like Ike's QuickDraw but non gimpable because lolsuperarmor. Can't.fucking.wait
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
He said that almost all of stages will receive the final destination layout.
Hey, you know what else is red and blue? Wii U's final destination.Am I the only one thinking the Smash Run map is hiding something about a story mode? Some of the scenery, like this cracked gate-thing here:
Looks like it could be a scene from a story mode.
It also has red and blue lines, like the 3DS and Wii U colors of their respective logos.
::crushes Soul Calibur hopes::
Troubled Bat
Member
Why are you in a cult?
I'd still wonder what a Balloon Fighter would do. Haha.
Nuuu, Little Mac can't be in that spot. D: And Takamaru would be glorious!
B-But his game on the Wii makes him not retro. :c
Takamaru would be the biggest one to bring especially, since he'd be would one of the most oldest to bring back? Having one game as well. That'll be the day though.
Mii? What? Qurupeke, are you okay?
DisconnectD
Member
Am I the only one thinking the Smash Run map is hiding something about a story mode? Some of the scenery, like this cracked gate-thing here:
Looks like it could be a scene from a story mode.
It also has red and blue lines, like the 3DS and Wii U colors of their respective logos.
There may be a story mode. I mean, it's unlikely they would go with the trouble of finding all kinds of different enemies only for a "small" mode like Smash Run. I'd expect to see all/most of the Smash Run enemies return in a Wii U story mode, or even a story mode shared between the 2 versions.
EDIT: Unrelated, but I love this gif:
Link's animation and the reflections on the shield are great.
PreyingShark
Member
I do not know any actual competitive Pokemon players who make that argument. Hell, I don't know anybody who claims that. The only pro-IV argument from non-trolls that you actually see is that it adds "diversity". I haven't seen even a troll claim that IVs make it skill-based.
A better analogy would be the Maka Wuhu glitch in Mario Kart 7. ;P
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Am I the only one thinking the Smash Run map is hiding something about a story mode? Some of the scenery, like this cracked gate-thing here:
Looks like it could be a scene from a story mode.
It also has red and blue lines, like the 3DS and Wii U colors of their respective logos.
Gamexplain did point out in their Smash Run analysis that it did have a lot of similarities to Sub-Space Emissary--who's to say it's not a pseudo-sequel?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
DisconnectD
Member
Protip: You can't
Perhaps Sakurai/Bamco have seen fit to halve it since that would be the more logical move, rather than re-add a technical execution barrier?
Weltall Zero
Member
Indeed, I'm surprised people even still argue about this, particularly in a game like Smash that did away with more common dexterity checks like special move inputs. Does replacing B with the Haoh Soko Ken motion as the input for standing special raise the skill ceiling or depth of the game? It's the same argument as wave dashing. I feel it's just people who mastered these unnnecesary hurdles not wanting the time they spent going to waste, and I can even commiserate, but there's no rational justification for letting that in. As you say, anything that is a no-choice adds zero depth.
This is really great, thanks for this.
Troubled Bat
Member
I knoooooow. D:
Protip: You can't
Perhaps Sakurai/Bamco have seen fit to halve it since that would be the more logical move, rather than re-add a technical execution barrier?
The game isn't released yet. Things can change!
Poltergust
Member
Yoshiiiiiiiiiiii
There's actually quite a number of changes to Yoshi than they make us think.
Sakurai made it clear that Yoshi stands up right now. I think it is a great change.
There is also an animation change for the first two attacks (the jabs). And again, the cutting through the air stuff makes it look really nice.
Rainbows!
Yoshi's eggs now has a trail of rainbows. Pretty obvious, and I think it is a cool change.
Changes to Yoshi's Back Air (GIF is slowed down to 0.5x speed during the attack)
So the change is that instead of 4 tail swipes, Yoshi now does 3. In exchange for that, the 3rd seems to be much stronger and has more knockback. I think that is a good change.
Changes to Yoshi's Down Air
This one is the hardest to notice and made me make GIFs from Brawl lol. First let's look at Brawl Yoshi's Down Air. This is a GIF of it in 1/4th speed in-game.
The numbers represent how I counted the animation. Every time Yoshi's feet are aligned during the flutter animation, it counts as 1 cycle. I put the start of the flutter kick as a cycle as well just to note that it does damage.
There are 7 cycles, however, only the first 5 seem to do damage while the last two are just there for animation purposes I guess. Which is shown in the next GIF (at 1/4th speed in-game).
You'll see the last two cycles (the second one is really small, but since it is a part of the animation, I included it as a cycle) don't do any damage.
Now let's see what how Smash 4 does it (and I'll post the Brawl one side by side, but it really isn't comparable). GIF is at 0.25x speed and obviously not in-game.
So there are only 5 cycles. The ending animation is just the legs and arms going back to normal. Not sure exactly when Yoshi can do something else. Although the GIFs aren't really in a comparable state, it can be said that the Flutter Kick is better now that the junk animation is gone.
And that is not it for Yoshi's Down Air changes. There is one more change.
In Brawl, if the opponent is on the ground and Yoshi uses its flutter kick, it did not cause the opponent to have horizontal knockback like it does at the end there. Mario gets knocked back to the right by a bit at the end.
My guess is that they changed it so that the splits that Yoshi does when landing while doing the flutter kick will cause damage and has horizontal knockback. In Brawl it did not do this and was merely a landing animation.
Further proof is the fact that I tried to mimic what happened in Smash 4 by making the first 2 cycles miss and let the next 3 cycles hit the other character, but the max number of hits that I could do was only 7 where as the Smash 4 one has 8 hits (you can tell by the red flash that appears).
NOW, the Down Air is done. That was more of an explanation than I thought I would need to explain my thought process lol.
As someone who started liking playing as Yoshi in Project M, I think all of these changes are for the better.
To add to this, his dash attack has also changed. You can see him do it twice during the Smash Run part of the Direct.