Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Hmm, do you guys think the custom moves option might be an argument against clones appearing? I guess we don't know to what extent it will work, but what if you can essentially recreate one using that new option?
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 6: Final Destination confirmed for not fun
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Squirtle used Surf I thought.
theprodigy
Member
BassForever
Member
We already have Toon Link which most people here would say is the cloniest of the clones in Brawl
oreomunsta
Banned
Pick up your game there, Bass
Unless Sakurai has decided to be a little discontinuous with Pokemon, you might be right! I didn't even know Greninja couldn't be taught Aqua Jet by a TM either until I looked it up... If it's not Hydro Pump, then the only other choices that would keep with the canon would be Surf or Waterfall
theprodigy
Member
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: The Clone Wars
Toon Link basically shows that any clone can come back, Sakurai just has elected not to reveal them.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Ya know, for the most part I don't care about clones anymore. EXCEPT GANONDORF. There is no reason he should be a Captain Falcon clone.
oreomunsta
Banned
At the least the conversation is more relevant than other WeekendSmash's have been =)
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: Sakurai used Cut!
I'd like to chip in my thought on characters being cut:
I don't think anyone will be cut.
And I think Mewtwo will return.
All of the characters that were in Brawl were rather unique. And certainly, the trend with SSB4 is to make all preexisting characters even more unique. I think Sakurai would rather find a way to surprise us and delight us by keeping characters than cutting them. He put a lot of hard work into those characters and they're now timeless in a sense because of their appearance in Smash -- regardless of how "relevant" they may be in other games (or on Nintendo systems) in the here and now, they're established "Smash Bros." characters the moment they appear in Smash. And in general, I think Sakurai wants to make this Smash bigger and better, which includes pumping up the roster while diversifying the individual characters and providing for better balance.
And here are some thoughts on certain characters:
- Ivysaur and Squirtle: They still represent important Pokémon concepts -- the basic stage and second-stage Pokémon -- and complete the Kanto trio, which mind you was a big part of Pokémon X/Y, since you got to choose one in addition to your Kalos starter. Additionally, Ivysaur is unique as a four-legged fighter, and Squirtle, while a Water-type like Greninja, has a move-set all his own.
- R.O.B. and Mr. G&W: Both incredibly unique characters. Both incredibly clever ways to represent Nintendo's history, which means they'll always be relevant to Smash Bros. Also, staff at Bandai-Namco included Mr. G&W in their whiteboard drawing during SSB4's pre-production.
- Ike: Unlike Roy, Ike headlined two console Fire Emblems and was very unique with his hard-hitting style and volcanic flame motif. I can see them retaining Ike -and- adding Chrom. I suppose it's also possible Chrom could inherit an altered take on Ike's style, but I think Sakurai is clever enough to include all three, with unique aesthetics and mechanics.
- Snake: I can't imagine a situation where Kojima would say, "No, you can't use Snake," nor can I see Konami turning down the free advertising. It doesn't matter if MGSV or GZ doesn't come to WiiU, just as it didn't matter that MGS4 didn't come to Wii (although MGS4 references still appeared in Brawl). Actually, since the 3DS got Snake Eater, MGS is more relevant to Nintendo now than it was during Brawl. But that's not the point. Snake is a huge gaming "celebrity" and a truly one-of-a-kind character in tone and playstyle. He plays unique, which seems to be the most important reason for character's inclusion in Sakurai's eyes. Also, there was that recent incident where Raiden's VA either misspoke or let slip that he voiced Raiden for Smash... which if not a mistake, probably indicates an Assist Trophy, and thus Snake's return.
- Mewtwo: Cut only due to time restraints in Brawl, I think Mewtwo will return because Sakurai was coy when asked about it at E3, and honestly, the Pokémon Company wants to push Mewtwo now because he starred in a recent movie and the new anime and also received not one but TWO Mega Evolutions in X/Y, even appearing in those game's title screen attract reels. I think he'll come back, with his Y Mega Evolution, as well.
I don't think anyone will be cut.
And I think Mewtwo will return.
All of the characters that were in Brawl were rather unique. And certainly, the trend with SSB4 is to make all preexisting characters even more unique. I think Sakurai would rather find a way to surprise us and delight us by keeping characters than cutting them. He put a lot of hard work into those characters and they're now timeless in a sense because of their appearance in Smash -- regardless of how "relevant" they may be in other games (or on Nintendo systems) in the here and now, they're established "Smash Bros." characters the moment they appear in Smash. And in general, I think Sakurai wants to make this Smash bigger and better, which includes pumping up the roster while diversifying the individual characters and providing for better balance.
And here are some thoughts on certain characters:
- Ivysaur and Squirtle: They still represent important Pokémon concepts -- the basic stage and second-stage Pokémon -- and complete the Kanto trio, which mind you was a big part of Pokémon X/Y, since you got to choose one in addition to your Kalos starter. Additionally, Ivysaur is unique as a four-legged fighter, and Squirtle, while a Water-type like Greninja, has a move-set all his own.
- R.O.B. and Mr. G&W: Both incredibly unique characters. Both incredibly clever ways to represent Nintendo's history, which means they'll always be relevant to Smash Bros. Also, staff at Bandai-Namco included Mr. G&W in their whiteboard drawing during SSB4's pre-production.
- Ike: Unlike Roy, Ike headlined two console Fire Emblems and was very unique with his hard-hitting style and volcanic flame motif. I can see them retaining Ike -and- adding Chrom. I suppose it's also possible Chrom could inherit an altered take on Ike's style, but I think Sakurai is clever enough to include all three, with unique aesthetics and mechanics.
- Snake: I can't imagine a situation where Kojima would say, "No, you can't use Snake," nor can I see Konami turning down the free advertising. It doesn't matter if MGSV or GZ doesn't come to WiiU, just as it didn't matter that MGS4 didn't come to Wii (although MGS4 references still appeared in Brawl). Actually, since the 3DS got Snake Eater, MGS is more relevant to Nintendo now than it was during Brawl. But that's not the point. Snake is a huge gaming "celebrity" and a truly one-of-a-kind character in tone and playstyle. He plays unique, which seems to be the most important reason for character's inclusion in Sakurai's eyes. Also, there was that recent incident where Raiden's VA either misspoke or let slip that he voiced Raiden for Smash... which if not a mistake, probably indicates an Assist Trophy, and thus Snake's return.
- Mewtwo: Cut only due to time restraints in Brawl, I think Mewtwo will return because Sakurai was coy when asked about it at E3, and honestly, the Pokémon Company wants to push Mewtwo now because he starred in a recent movie and the new anime and also received not one but TWO Mega Evolutions in X/Y, even appearing in those game's title screen attract reels. I think he'll come back, with his Y Mega Evolution, as well.
theprodigy
Member
Can't wait for the "damn it why is WOLF back, that stupid clone" posts.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Starphoenix
Member
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: No Ridley's Allowed.
theprodigy
Member
....I don't get it
BassForever
Member
Yep, once Toon Link was back I went "whelp" because (ignoring snake) if I had to go all in to bet 1 brawl character would be cut I'd have bet it all on toon link and Sakurai would have laughed and walked away with all my chips.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Bold Raiden predict?
I definitely wouldn't want Sakurai to restrict his creativity in that way, but I do think that when he comes to Pokémon he generally tries to correctly reference the moves they can learn in the source material. Accuracy is part of the fan service. Obviously, he's more lenient taking liberties with characters from less detailed material (like Captain Falcon, who rarely appeared outside of his vehicle in the F-Zero games).
You should have known that wouldn't happen after Young Link wasn't cut after Melee/was modified into Toon Link.
If I was to bet on any single character getting cut (besides Snake), it would be Wolf.
Starfish Hero
Member
That's actually disgusting.
Seems more like Waterfall to me, being a contact move *shrug*
theprodigy
Member
well.....
Pikachu's still using Skull Bash but hasn't been able to learn it since Gen 1
Why not both?
Metal Gear Rising definitely seems like Sakurai's type of game, so I'd wager he has a lot of love for cyborg Raiden. Honestly, if it's an option of the table (playable cyborg Raiden), I'd accept him in an instant. But he should be in addition to Snake, not replacing him (even though I like MGR much better than any MGS game).
Yeah, but he's surfing on a wave XD
But he did know Skull Bash at one point, back when he was originally designed. If Pikachu were introduced as a newcomer now, I think his moves would all reference moves he can actually learn. Hence why with Greninja, I suspect his moves will all be accurate to the source material, at least in name if nothing else.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Charizard's new Forward Air:
Forgot to link to the Charizard post in that list of posts.
Aw, I'm going to kind of miss his blast of fire in between his wings. It was a neat animation.
theprodigy
Member
Maybe they gave the "flap and blast fire" move to another fire-breathing winged dragon...
Valoo!
Huh, I wonder if they really did change up Yoshi's final smash like that.
Triple Finish introduced before Triple Battles
Pikachu and Pichu's Neutral Special named Thunder Jolt
Pichu being able to learn Skull Bash or Agility at all
Greninja's water katana, with no known source
etc
BassForever
Member
Yeah dunno why I thought that in hind sight lol toon link for me is far more enjoyable then any version of link in smash before.
theprodigy
Member
Why would Sakurai change up Yoshi's moveset like that?
Duly noted. In that case, might as well make Greninja's Up B Aqua Jet, because that certainly seems most appropriate.
Well, Link was cut for being a Toon Link clone.
BassForever
Member
To be fair that was just one of them and I feel after hearing his own argument out loud and the other guy basically saying "no you're an idiot" he changed his tune lol
theprodigy
Member
Wii U version looks like a happy medium between Melee and Brawl. At the very least it's significantly sped up.
Depending on who you ask, 3DS version either looks just like the Wii U version speedwise or more like Brawl. There doesn't seem to be much consensus there but someone might've broken it down by now.
MrSaturn99
Member
He was suggested on Miiverse the other day.
theprodigy
Member
edit: what you snuck in the edit
Well, nobody reasonable anyway.