Night vision is severely reduced for most heroes as well.
Night Stalker and Luna with lunar blessing skilled most notably have superior vision at night(both have 1800 sight range at night, which is longer than most heroes daytime vision).
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- Thread starter SteveWinwood
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Night vision is severely reduced for most heroes as well.
Night Stalker and Luna with lunar blessing skilled most notably have superior vision at night(both have 1800 sight range at night, which is longer than most heroes daytime vision).
Oh. That would just be making her broken though, and remove the point of her role as aoe assassin.
I think having a Kata whose spells would not scale would be completely broken or completely useless late.
Umm isn't that the same as standard day vision?
There are spells that scale with stats so it's not impossible
I am so glad I went to bed last night. I would have been up all night.
And now this thread has caused me to miss lunch.
Mainly vision is different between day and night for most heroes, making night generally a better time for teams to be aggressive. Vision drops to 800 for 90% of the pool at night.
Over the last year or two Icefrog has removed bonus night vision from a lot of heroes, and removed vision granting portions of a ton of spells.
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Vision
You can have spells scale in Dota, most just don't.
The AoE still works, she just shines in single target ganks as well.
Obviously, her damage would be retooled for DOTA2 levels of damage. And you can always add scaling here or there. There are MANY heroes whose abilities don't scale and fall off late, the point is to dominate the early game so late game doesn't matter.
SteveWinwood
Member
A lot of people will say the centaur fad came out of that as well.
It kind of drives me nuts. I like it on one level because just about every hero has had their time in the spot light, but on the other hand there are so many heroes that are so good right now that still aren't getting picked.
I mean at least we've gone through supports pretty completely in the last year. Disraptor, AA, and veno finally got their time to shine.
Still no first pick/ban ogre and omni though
Unless essentially her whole kit scaled, it's not going to be the same. That's kind of unprecedented in Dota, no? At most one or two spells per hero, I think, on say OD and Silencer.
There should be some balance between being the best team fight assassin and the best single target assassin, but if you like stuff to be broken then sure.
She's not a bad single target ganker by any means.But it won't be the same Kata who is an excellent late game carry due to her scalings and reset potential.
Err i guess it is aside from NS. For some reason I was thinking standard vision was 1600.. Brain not working.
Still though, night vision equal to other heroes day vision is useful.
There's also skywrath mage, pudge with agh, legion commander (although its not really scaling as in free damage each time her ult is successful), Doom's lvl? Death, Centaur.
Right, but none of them have more than one or two spells on the same kit that scale, right?
Does Doom's lvl? death scale with actual stats instead of doing bonus damage based on the opponents level now?
Well yeah, there's alot less heroes with full kit scaling but thats intended, abilities fall of after the mid-game and right-clickers have the advantage late-game.
I though you meant scales in general not just stats, doom's lvl? death is based on the lvl of the targeted hero. But 20% of their hp applied as damage is pretty strong though.
SteveWinwood
Member
Yeah ability scaling is on a whole different level and wouldn't fly in dota. It would make some of the hardest supports just ridiculous. Lion would be the best hero in the game.
It would turn into something completely different. It's really hard to compare the two directly.
I didn't see it before!
I forsee a lot of yelling in the future...
It takes so much time to really get a grasp over some of the stuff that a few casual games here and there won't get them very far and will probably just frustrate them and further solidify them in their camp.
That being said, I do play some lol once and a while with friends and I do pretty good with ashe. Also there are some lol'ers on here I've played dota with.
It would turn into something completely different. It's really hard to compare the two directly.
I didn't see it before!
I forsee a lot of yelling in the future...
It takes so much time to really get a grasp over some of the stuff that a few casual games here and there won't get them very far and will probably just frustrate them and further solidify them in their camp.
That being said, I do play some lol once and a while with friends and I do pretty good with ashe. Also there are some lol'ers on here I've played dota with.
Why would we do that?
edit: Steve explained my thoughts better than my snarky comment did.
Well, that's one of the reason you wouldn't really see Katarina in Dota. She's a manaless, high scaling mage carry with resets and spammy spells. The only way you would get more League-like design would be if you added some skillshots.
Spells typically don't scale in Dota and that's fine, but it does make it so that there are some hero/champ designs that you won't see in Dota. There's no problem with that, you wouldn't see a lot of Dota heroes in League either.
re
oomI see, that has changed since my Dota days. When I played LVL?Death just did 250 extra damage when it hit on the right level.
Well, that's one of the reason you wouldn't really see Katarina in Dota. She's a manaless, high scaling mage carry with resets and spammy spells. The only way you would get more League-specific design would be if you added some skillshots.
re
I see, that has changed since my Dota days. When I played LVL?Death just did 250 extra damage when it hit on the right level.
Not necessarily, her abilities could just apply damage from her right-clicks like ember spirit's sleight of fist.
and yeah, its been changed a while back, makes him pretty scary late-game. There's no tank in a doom game.
Unless essentially her whole kit scaled, it's not going to be the same. That's kind of unprecedented in Dota, no? At most one or two spells per hero, I think, on say OD and Silencer.
There should be some balance between being the best team fight assassin and the best single target assassin, but if you like stuff to be broken then sure.
But it won't be the same Kata who is an excellent late game carry due to her scalings and reset potential.
Pretty much every ability in Dota would be broken in LoL, that's kind of the whole point. Dota is balanced by making everything OP.
Crystal Maiden(or lion as mentioned above, or shadow shaman) would be unstoppable in LoL, scaling on abilities or no. No one has that kind of CC in LoL.
Also right click damage scales much better in Dota than in LoL. You don't see champions one shot whole teams with a single right click. That's the balance in Dota though. Heroes that rely on their abilities are super powerful early, but it is outweighed by the fact that the heroes who rely on their abilities to increase their auto attack damage scale better late.
Given that most abilities in LoL overall have a lower impact than abilities in Dota and are way more spammable, all ability scaling really does is turn abilities into glorified auto attacks..
If you want to play a hero that can't exist in LoL, play Sven. Naturally tanky character, has what would probably be the best stun in the game in LoL, can destroy whole teams in a single auto attack late game. In Dota he is mid-low tier, in LoL, unstoppable beast.
The scaling vs. non scaling heroes and the varying timeframes of when a particular hero is powerful makes the dota meta game so much more varied than LoL's, which is why I find it more interesting to watch. In LoL everyone seems to be aiming for the same timing basically and it's just about who gets the better matchups or outplays the other in lane. Which can be interesting but there is a whole other level of stuff going on in Dota.
Katarina does have AD scaling on 3 of her spells in addition to her AP scaling, so sure, why not? She would have to have close to instant turn speed to function or she would be way too slow to utilize her low cooldowns and resets.
Personally, I couldn't see such a design in Dota, but I agree it would make the game more to more liking. If you insist you could see the kit in Dota then sure, I can't deny.
hur hur
I know this, it is beside the point. The discussion was about Kata fitting in Dota. Strength-wise I think she could function fine if left almost as-is with proper scaling just because of BKB, but I don't think we would see (a hero like) her in the game. If she would have to be an amazing single target assassin in addition to being the best aoe teamfight assassin then sure, make that change, but I still think she would be out of place compared to the typical Dota heroes.
I agree that there are dota heroes that's be open in Lol but sven would not be one of them. He'd be pretty shitty actually.
I don't think you've experienced a fed Sven.
- 2 second aoe stun
- 65% dmg cleave
- 200% dmg boost Ulti
http://gfycat.com/DopeyOrdinaryDeviltasmanian
Would a hero like bristleback feel at home in lol? His spells are extremely spammy
Right after her rework Sejuani had a knock up, a three second 70% AOE slow, and a two second AOE stun.
Actually yeah, I think he would. Good example. He got his ulti getting stacks and becoming stronger with those stacks with additional casts of his quills.
edit: About the Sven stuff, I think he would just get kited and cc'd, or exhausted. Remember that there is no BKB.
You could have her whole kit scale off damage/stats, there is nothing preventing it from doing that in Dota. There just isn't any right now.
I mean, you would never see a character quite like that in Dota, but there is nothing technical to stop her from being implemented.
Aside from the technicalities, do you think that you would actually see a design like hers in Dota?
edit: I catched you before your edit. Yeah I agree there is no technical reason. I was speaking about design.
Not to mention his early game would be worse than sion, which is quite a feat.
What super tanky champ in LoL has a 2 second targeted stun with a giant AoE, a cleave, and can crit for 2k with like 3 items and 100% cleave?
I don't see how you can stop god's strength + cleave with the limited amount of reliable CC in lol.
And he would have one of the best stuns in the game and enough damage to 2 shot anyone if he crits.
He needs a BKB in Dota because of the amount of CC. With the reduced amount of CC in LoL, I don't know how you would kite him at all. Plus he has War Cry to help close the distance after he stuns.
chapter 6 just got translated if anyone's interested: http://imgur.com/a/cJ5oE
Exhaust him and he's done. Also I don't know where you're getting this limited reliable cc from. Lol has quite a lot.
And like I said, he'd be hard pressed to get that fed in league.
Yup, you know it. Yasuo is a melee AD carry that actually works though, so at least it's getting better.
I don't think so, unless they give the hero like +0 int per level so she couldn't easily use active items. A caster carry with 4 actives that scale with stats and don't cost mana. Defiantly nothing like that right now.
Not too sure about her passive being ported over. I guess you could make it part of her ult that her 3 main spells reset cool downs upon getting a kill.
I think the hero could work with enough number tweaking.
So the only way to stop him from killing your whole team is a summoner spell on a 210 second cooldown? What do you do for the other 90% of the game?
Well first of all you don't let him get to that point. We have champions like that (again sion) that if they somehow make it to lategame fed it's a nightmare, they still can be handled. Even if you don't have your summoners up, there's still plenty of CC, thornmail, Frozen Heart, and you kite if you have to.
Sven would work in LoL, he'd be a good jungler.. (cleave for camp clearing, stun for ganks) but not a wrecking force of doom like you propose.
LoL maybe have less time on each CC, but its often very spammable. Also there are tons of slows in LoL, which kill a BKB-less Sven (also no blink to get on top of people right away). Also maybe I'm mistaken, but a majority of champions I think have some sort of mobility spell in addition to flash, no?
Most of the popular currently strong champs have mobility, yes.
Yeah, it could definitely be balanced to work in the game, it's just not something we'll really see unless Icefrog gets adventurous once he abandons Dota 1.
Mobility creep is definitely a thing in LoL. More and more champs have abilities that give them dashes, teleport, gapclosers or whatever. Lot of the old champions have a hard time keeping up with it.
Imperfected
Member
I think we can all agree that Smite characters would wreck LoL and DotA heroes because they can move in three dimensions. Like what the actual fuck, hax.
That;s the thing with sven though, he doesn't need to be fed. all he needs is a crit item and god's strength and he has the potential to one shot your entire team.
Actually with LoL's itemization he would be even more powerful because of the number of crit items in the game and how they stack. With the runes and masteries in LoL you could have almost a daedalus worth of crit chance before even starting the game. Sven with crit runes + stacked with crit items with a 75% crit chance and like 280% crit damage?
Sweet baby jesus is that scary. You basically wouldn't be able to let him hit you once, no matter how tanky you are.
lyrick
Member
So is anyone else in the Heroes of the Storm Tech Alpha?
If so we could sure use an OT or at least a place to swap Battletags (more XP if we game with friends).
After the Profile reset it would be nice to hear how we all fared the first time through and maybe what are plans are from here on out.
Battletag: Lyrick#1895
If so we could sure use an OT or at least a place to swap Battletags (more XP if we game with friends).
After the Profile reset it would be nice to hear how we all fared the first time through and maybe what are plans are from here on out.
Battletag: Lyrick#1895