All you really need to do is look to some certain modern non western Civilisation's to get a clear idea of why a feminist attitude can be seen as highly rational.
What exactly is feminism?
- Thread starter Kokonoe
- Start date
- Status
Only problem I have with "feminism" is that lots of people don't want the same thing and there is a certain section of "feminist" who will judge a woman for that.
Woman should be able to do what they want.
If they want to go and get a career and become a successful high-flier, great, go for it and they should have all the same opportunities as men who want to do the same.
If they want to be a have kids and become a housewife, while their partner goes out to work to earn money for the family, they should be allowed to do this, without people looking down on them and judging them.
Woman should be able to do what they want.
If they want to go and get a career and become a successful high-flier, great, go for it and they should have all the same opportunities as men who want to do the same.
If they want to be a have kids and become a housewife, while their partner goes out to work to earn money for the family, they should be allowed to do this, without people looking down on them and judging them.
CHEEZMO™;109447924 said:
sounds awesome tbh
Soviet Lesbian Witches do sound kind of interesting.
Also no one quote this and reply with a relevant strike witches gif or something or I'm request you be permed.
Can you introduce me ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Neoriceisgood
Member
I fully agree 100%, I don't think I implied otherwise in what you quoted? Or were you just adding it?
This is an issue I seen too. I recall the countless think pieces on Beyoncé and how she's not a feminist because she embraces her sexuality and is married.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
All societies shifted to patriarchy thousands of years ago, due to the hereditary nature of monarchies (gotta lock down the female to guarantee paternity), and perhaps more importantly, due to the role that armies played in controlling and maintaining the state (men are stronger than women and in a world build upon armies, the strongest sex is privileged).
Feminism is a de-patriarchy movement.
Feminism is a de-patriarchy movement.
Feminism it is a label with wildly different meanings attached to it depending on who you ask to.
Ideologically talking, the core idea is that "women and men should be treated equally". It might look simple and straightfoward enough, but then the analysis of the causes of gender inequality and possible solutions to adress them are varied and in some cases, downright at odds with each other, hence the degree of polemic that arises whenever someone uses that term.
As I view it, the term "feminism" has been overused until it has lost its meaning, kinda like the "hipster" or "geek" labels, me thinks.
Ideologically talking, the core idea is that "women and men should be treated equally". It might look simple and straightfoward enough, but then the analysis of the causes of gender inequality and possible solutions to adress them are varied and in some cases, downright at odds with each other, hence the degree of polemic that arises whenever someone uses that term.
As I view it, the term "feminism" has been overused until it has lost its meaning, kinda like the "hipster" or "geek" labels, me thinks.
In my eyes the worst thing a feminist can do is completely reject femininity, for me feminism isn't about reaching an equilibrium in lifestyles but rather respecting the full spectrum of lifestyles. I respect powerful and sexual women, thats something that should never be shunned.
Pretty much.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Pretty much this exactly. All for equality, just don't be a douche.
Good film too.
Enosh
Member
it's a movement for the advancement of women rights that includes people who have varied opinions of just how far those rights should go
it's not about equality because there are feminist who want more rights and those who would have been fine with just some rights (although i don't think feminist like that exist anymore)
it's not about equality because there are feminist who want more rights and those who would have been fine with just some rights (although i don't think feminist like that exist anymore)
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
In my country feminist groups have historically been pro abortion groups, since the 30s. They have been silent about any other law reform that is beneficial to women, this includes women's voting rights and postnatal solutions.
Ironically though, they attribute the winning of those rights retroactively.
So yeah, from my perspective, feminism sucks.
Ironically though, they attribute the winning of those rights retroactively.
So yeah, from my perspective, feminism sucks.
And who decides what Femininity is?
Neoriceisgood
Member
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Brianimaniac
Banned
Feminism is a noble cause. Hard to argue otherwise. The issue is that a lot of outspoken activists are really abrasive people. That's not limited to feminists, and it's certainly not a condemnation of the positions those people support. The end result, which is more emotional than logical, is that these passionate activists can do more harm than good to their cause.
I'm a vegetarian, and I see a lot of annoying assholes promoting animal rights. If they annoy me, and that issue is important to me, I can only imagine how they make other people feel. It's the same with feminism.
I'm a vegetarian, and I see a lot of annoying assholes promoting animal rights. If they annoy me, and that issue is important to me, I can only imagine how they make other people feel. It's the same with feminism.
Equality doesn't only mean some legal rights.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I find the irony here being that the ideas these ladies are speaking about are feminist ideas, and they're allowed to hold them because of the work generations before them put in. But I'm sure if they found out they were getting paid less, or passed over for promotion or treated second glass due to their gender they would react accordingly without even thinking about it. Such is feminism. It's not all attackattack, porn=rape, woe is me bullshit.
Enosh
Member
I mean historically, I remember reading that some of the women in the suffrage movement were okay with only getting the right to vote while others pushed for me, I might have read it wrong for which I apologize
This one was clever enough to get a smirk out of me.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I absolutely bristle at the actions of some animal rights people I know, and yet.... I hate to admit it, but they're probably moving the needle. You can say "more harm than good" but does it really cause a backlash that makes us dominate/abuse animals more? Nope. It actually makes us realize the issue is sensitive and we are more likely to reconsider our actions going forward, even if we can't stand those people.
I'm reminded of how Greenpeace and the Sea Shepherds were both of the same origin, but the latter are more militant, almost eco-terrorists. Greenpeace publicly denounces the Shepherds... but privately a lot of people on both sides think the other is right to do what they do in the name of progress. The carrot and the stick.
I just can't bring myself to read what's on that card...don't know why...
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Nope, I should apologise. I thought you meant that women should settle for just a few rights instead of wanting equality. My bad.
How are those mutually exclusive?
Nobody likes to give up privileges, least of all newfound privileges.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
Yup.
My partner, a decade or so ago, didn't consider herself a feminist because of the silly out in left field things she'd heard ("facts are masculine! Reject facts!") and associated with the word. Over time as she entered the work force she has identified more and more with feminism as she dealt with more and more sexism.
dapperbandit
Banned
Perfect.
I'm not following. I'll ask again how is equality and empowerment mutually exclusive?
Spanx McFranks
Banned
I have a question on feminism, many people say they are working to get rid of a patriarchal society. So is the goal to replace it with a matriarchal society, some sort of duel society, or something completely different?
At its best its a movement for social equality, at its worst its essentially an interest group solely interested in gaining its members what they want above all else.
I've not seen or come across anything relating to feminism to suggest that anyone is advocating the creation of a matriarchal society. The goal for the majority seems to be nothing more than creating a genuinely gender equal society.
What we have at the moment is a patriarchal society and I think the issue for some men is that they see attacks and criticisms on the patriarchy as attacks on the male gender itself, and that is not the case the majority of the time.
Spanx McFranks
Banned
I didn't think people would want to replace one with the other. Seems like an equal society would be the goal, but I wasn't quite sure.
John Kowalski
Banned
Rarely is it ever the case where matriarchy is seriously argued to be the end goal of the feminist movement, though the degree to which feminism extends beyond the disintegration of the patriarchy is hard to pinpoint. I'd say that feminism, first and foremost, wishes to disempower the patriarchy so as to disenfranchise the sexual discrimination that comes with it. But then again, who knows if feminism will ever actually reach its end point... i'm of the opinion that feminism will always be a necessary countercurrent, similarly to racial equality movements.
What i care most about is how much of an activist do you need to be to be called a feminist.
ShadyLurker
Member
I think the goal would depend on the individual. Feminists in some places of the world are fighting just to be recognized as a person instead of property.
In places like the US, women are at the point where legally they have the same rights as men, so their end goal is less clear. Most say equality between men and women is the end goal. Even that is hard to define, unless it's specific to a certain area such as wage equality.
Men and women will never be completely equal, as they are inherently different in many ways. The feminism people describe as radical is usually those who's goal is to impose equality where it is generally not wanted. And obviously the ones who outright spew hate speech at men. Perhaps their goal is a matriarchal society, but I feel those individuals are rare but vocal, like the radicals of any group or movement.
I dunno. Most of the feminist thought I find on the Internet is pretty obvious, non-controversial observations. It's the reactions to those observations that feel radical. See: anytime representation of women is brought up in anything. Ever.
I think genuine feminism is great. It helps bring equality to the world. While men and women aren't exactly equal, they're different in some ways, I think it's good to keep the right balance and have an equal starting point such as womens rights, pay, and things like that.
I think there's a large chunk of fake feminists like suey park or many "internet feminists" who just bring hate and sexism into it. The kind of people who act like a victim, refuse to debate, or say things like "white males can't have an opinion on this because X reason". It's sad and pathetic. I feel like some feminists are like those white people who say anti-racism is anti-white. They try to cover up their insidious bullshit as innocent.
In fact as an example one time on GAF I made a light hearted vagina joke about a story involving 80 year old hookers. I was called a misogynist and I was slut shaming. Then a few women on here proceeded to call me that I can never joke about women ever and I'm a basement dwelling virgin. I guess virgin shaming is ok? Feminism is rampant with hypocrisy, sexism, and hate towards men but the actual, real feminists are great and I'm all for them. It should be about an equal starting point and where you go from there is up to you.
Edit: Actually this doesn't answer the question at all of what feminism is, does it? Oh well.
I think there's a large chunk of fake feminists like suey park or many "internet feminists" who just bring hate and sexism into it. The kind of people who act like a victim, refuse to debate, or say things like "white males can't have an opinion on this because X reason". It's sad and pathetic. I feel like some feminists are like those white people who say anti-racism is anti-white. They try to cover up their insidious bullshit as innocent.
In fact as an example one time on GAF I made a light hearted vagina joke about a story involving 80 year old hookers. I was called a misogynist and I was slut shaming. Then a few women on here proceeded to call me that I can never joke about women ever and I'm a basement dwelling virgin. I guess virgin shaming is ok? Feminism is rampant with hypocrisy, sexism, and hate towards men but the actual, real feminists are great and I'm all for them. It should be about an equal starting point and where you go from there is up to you.
Edit: Actually this doesn't answer the question at all of what feminism is, does it? Oh well.
They don't have to be but to me current wave feminism doesn't seem like it wants stop at equality. Maybe I'm just seeing too many tumblr screencaps.
I think gender equality is a real problem and a big one but only in developing countries.
entremet
Member
I don't any younger female that identifies as a feminist. Seems like most are just indifferent about it honestly. The only self identified feminists I've met, were college professors and online peeps.
I have no issues with it personally, but I know there's been a lot of backlash against it of late online, mostly from the MRA/Redpillers.
I have no issues with it personally, but I know there's been a lot of backlash against it of late online, mostly from the MRA/Redpillers.
Dabookerman
Member
I've been following a lot of feminism and the general shitty treatment of women within the games industry/geek community.
I understand feminism like this - it's purely about being treated equally no matter what your gender. The femi part comes from the fact that the scales are incredibly tipped in favour of the patriarchy. Men are affected by it because of the bro culture, and the requirement to act as masculine and alpha as possible. (Hence why "faggot" is still a common insult)
I understand feminism like this - it's purely about being treated equally no matter what your gender. The femi part comes from the fact that the scales are incredibly tipped in favour of the patriarchy. Men are affected by it because of the bro culture, and the requirement to act as masculine and alpha as possible. (Hence why "faggot" is still a common insult)
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
You probably are. But its also important to remember that a call for reduction in the power disparity of one group is not necessarily a power grab by the other group. I know a lot of men who feel "assaulted" by feminism because they don't want to admit to the systemic advantages they have.
- Status