Yes, certainly, and giving players direct access to the physics engine and the ability to add/remove intrinsic parts of the game, without causing cataclysmic system crashes, would have only taken another year or so of development. It's ridiculous they didn't do it for Brawl.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: How Can My Smash Brother Be This Cut
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Yes, certainly, and giving players direct access to the physics engine and the ability to add/remove intrinsic parts of the game, without causing cataclysmic system crashes, would have only taken another year or so of development. It's ridiculous they didn't do it for Brawl.
Shadow Hog
Member
I was thinking about wanton animal cruelty, forcing foxes, birds, wolves, hedgehogs, dinosaurs, mice, frogs, dragons, dogs and fairy balloons into fights supposedly against their will.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
You know what would be better than that? Both. They're not mutually exclusive.
I'm not underestimating it, I'm fully aware that there would have to be extensive testing, but that is done for every single aspect of a game, so this shouldn't be viewed as any different.
If Brawl was developed from the beginning with this in mind, we would not have spent years going through the Melee vs Brawl nonsense. That's why I think this could be very exciting for all types of fans. Sure, it may not be NEEDED as long as they balance the game better than we've previously seen, but that's a big if..
Sometimes I feel like fans of Nintendo don't ask for enough, and people wonder why Nintendo isn't blowing shit up right now. I guarantee you if they started expanding their franchises with things like this, they'd be crushing the competition.
"Oh, you disagree with the mechanic of auto ledge grabs? Well, now you can turn that option off! Wait, you don't like tripping either?? Well, there's an option for that too! Oh, you want to adjust hitstun from 10% to 23% via a slider? SURE, go ahead!" It's like what Bungie said with Forge, "people are going to take the versions of the maps we made and make them better.." This is the mentality that I feel is currently lacking from Nintendo products. They don't allow their fans to customize jack diddly squat when it comes to gameplay.
You guys may not see it as something that's significant, but other franchises have proven otherwise for many years now.
I think actual game-engine-changing-variables (ESPECIALLY on a slider where the combinations and permutations are basically mathematically not feasible) are harder to test than weapon loadouts, running speed, or any other customization options that halo allows.
I would say that toggling items and all the different modes (bunny ear, metal, etc) that smash already offers are comparable to what halo does. Each item/weapon is tested on its own, so throwing multiple permutations or combinations of items in a stage doesn't require as much testing as actual engine-changing variables.
I think that the game engine physics and attributes are something that are carefully calculated by the developers, and are something that they OWN and don't WANT the users to change. You're making an entirely different game if every variable is changeable than one where you say "hey, here are my rules, play by them." If they let the users change everything, it's more the user's game. That's a design choice, but it's not their design choice. It's arguable whether it's better or not. Honestly, I'm ok with playing by THEIR rules. I'm ok with that because I'm playing the game as they intended. It's partially why I dislike sandbox games. I get bored when I have to make my own fun. I like playing by the rules, I like playing the game as the devs intended. That's just me.
Guys, when I went to check the comments for the pic of the day at http://smashbros-miiverse.com/pic-of-the-day, I saw a different image than the one we had. Now that I've checked again the image's gone, but I still had a tab with the other image open inside it, so here it is:
I skimmed over the past pics of the day archive, and this one doesn't seem to be among them. It's probably just an error and something we already have, but I figured I'd share it just in case.
I skimmed over the past pics of the day archive, and this one doesn't seem to be among them. It's probably just an error and something we already have, but I figured I'd share it just in case.
Troubled Bat
Member
That's from the Greninja trailer.
Edit: Bring on Isaac! He needs to be a playable character!
Edit: Bring on Isaac! He needs to be a playable character!
RomanceDawn
Member
Guys, when I went to check the comments for the pic of the day at http://smashbros-miiverse.com/pic-of-the-day, I saw a different image than the one we had. Now that I've checked again the image's gone, but I still had a tab with the other image open inside it, so here it is:
I skimmed over the past pics of the day archive, and this one doesn't seem to be among them. It's probably just an error and something we already have, but I figured I'd share it just in case.
It is just a fan site so they probably just took a screen cap during the direct.
I'm really hoping the official site gets a redesign after E3. Considering the current site is just a glorified roster, people who don't follow the pic of the day aren't going to know anything about the game modes, stages, and items. Even the new Mario Kart site is a lot more comprehensive.
RomanceDawn
Member
When I look at that picture I'm reminded the Gale Boomerang is back. In Brawl i've seen people really screw with me with that thing. I mean they were really really good Link players and what happened was very situational but it certainly helped them out. What I hope for is that the boomerang can be charged for bigger tornadoes. I think that may be a reason why we haven't seen it during gameplay yet, it's going to have a new element added to it.
Mr. Smiley
Member
When's Ness?
That alpaca is way too sexualized!Where's the alpaca item that turns characters into alpacas?
I just wanted an excuse to share my latest alpaca creation: Zero Suit Alpaca Samus
DisconnectD
Member
We have seen it, albeit; very briefly in the Direct but what I'm wondering is what could be done to buff the gale boomerang this time? Any pro players have an opinion on that?
Mario's FLUDD now has a more powerful jet of water, so it may be a good edgeguard tool now, so for the boomerang, could they just make it have greater knockback, or maybe it could pop players up inside the tornado for combos?
At least it doesn't have heels.
Needs jet heels.
He's still picking up speed for PK Teleport. It takes time (and not crashing into stuff), you know.
That reminds me... he'd better get a better PK Thunder recovery range after it got gimped to hell and back starting in Melee. If Lucas is in and tethers' range is buffed, then that'd be like rubbing salt in Ness' wounds.
An avatar quote would be kind of weird lol
User 73706
Banned
Was anyone else blown away by this even before the Greninja reveal? The Smash aesthetic doing CGI cutscenes with a high budget just looks soooooo gooooood. Samus especially now that all her green conduits are illuminated, good lord. Charizard's simpler design looked like straight-up motion comic art. Like, 2D stuff brought to life.
Wanna give that alpaca the Mr. Raspberry Jam treatment from GTAV
Scooter155
Member
Third possibility:
I honestly love how you can look at that photo of Charizard with little floppy ears and a raccoon tail and you can say "now if he had two tails, that would be ridiculous"
ShockingAlberto
Member
I remember the days I used to buy namco games just for the intros and endings.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Yep, definitely more difficult to test. Thing is though that Bungie had 3+ years of development on each Halo game (aside from ODST) and this was a request that's been begged for since before Halo 2 came out in 2004. By now you'd think at least some improvement would have been made to Custom Game options, but we've actually seen options be taken away lol
Oh this is definitely the case lol and what I think the "issue" is. Nintendo doesn't want fans editing their stuff, so I'm sure they don't want fans editing things like this for Smash. The reason we're having this discussion is because I'm talking to fans about this who seem to either not want it or think it's too tough for Nintendo to implement, which is what I'm arguing against.
Sure, but how about a game that doesn't take away that core experience but also allows for more customization? Smash Wii U is going to let people customize different moves, so what say you about that? Why not just take it one step further in that case?
And sandbox games don't really have this type of customization I'm talking about, so that doesn't really apply in the example you gave. As far as games that you have to make your own fun (ie: Minecraft), I agree with you actually.
Compromise: How about something like giving the player a few modes then? For example, Smash 64 mode has more hitstun, faster movement speed, etc. while Smash Wii U mode (these names can obviously change lol) has different traits. In this scenario, you'd have static options to choose from instead of a slider which would make testing a hell of a lot easier, but also providing the fans with more options to play.
I'm still not a fan of how the generic Smash-verse (outside of any franchise location) is this murky, desolate, hyper-gritty place. That aside, yeah, it is amazing how good it looks -- the characters fit together much better in this style than one might think possible. And Samus, like you said, looks especially good.
Was anyone else blown away by this even before the Greninja reveal? The Smash aesthetic doing CGI cutscenes with a high budget just looks soooooo gooooood. Samus especially now that all her green conduits are illuminated, good lord.
Scooter155
Member
Hey you guys - has anyone talked about the MK8 news and how it might relate to Smash Bros?
The two features I'm referring to primarily are : the ability to watch/edit replays and upload clips straight to youtube, and the ability to host public and private tournaments, setting a specific date and time and entry requirements.
Think any of that will spill over into Smash?
The two features I'm referring to primarily are : the ability to watch/edit replays and upload clips straight to youtube, and the ability to host public and private tournaments, setting a specific date and time and entry requirements.
Think any of that will spill over into Smash?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Hey you guys - has anyone talked about the MK8 news and how it might relate to Smash Bros?
The two features I'm referring to primarily are : the ability to watch/edit replays and upload clips straight to youtube, and the ability to host public and private tournaments, setting a specific date and time and entry requirements.
Think any of that will spill over into Smash?
Shittttttt, they better! There's some great stuff there that Smash could capitalize on.
I haven't played GTAV so I googled this...Welp.
DisconnectD
Member
Based on the absurd range of all the new and veteran characters recovery options, I almost guarantee Ness will have an equally absurd recovery range.
Pit's goes from damn near the blast zone to the ledge, not to mention Villager & Olimar's new recovery. These buffed recoveries make me think that the ledge mechanics redesign is a huge game changer as it seems that recovering in smash 4 is even easier than in brawl , on the surface at least.
I'm totally ok with 'preset physics modes', because they still 'OWN' those modes and they're easily testable (3-4 things to test versus 30-30,000 things to test).
I'd totally love a smash 64 mode where the physics were smash 64 style, especially if everyone gets a low-poly model!
Hey you guys - has anyone talked about the MK8 news and how it might relate to Smash Bros?
The two features I'm referring to primarily are : the ability to watch/edit replays and upload clips straight to youtube, and the ability to host public and private tournaments, setting a specific date and time and entry requirements.
Think any of that will spill over into Smash?
Yes, that's what spawned our argument
I want youtube replay uploads so bad!
User 73706
Banned
I think it has to do with the fact that the Smash 'verse is nothing but fights ad infinitum. All the desolate areas are no-man's-lands from both a story perspective and an "untapped creative potential" from a franchise perspective. I figured Mario's areas were in peace talks with Bowser stages and so on and so forth as applied to all the areas.
And yeah, CGI Smash Samus makes me want a Nintendo FPS arena shooter in that style.
DisconnectD
Member
The smash-verse outside of the fantasy worlds of the franchises is supposed to represent how empty , soul crushingly desolate the real world is outside of our Nintendo games
Haha, well said.
ErrorMacro
Member
Hey you guys - has anyone talked about the MK8 news and how it might relate to Smash Bros?
The two features I'm referring to primarily are : the ability to watch/edit replays and upload clips straight to youtube, and the ability to host public and private tournaments, setting a specific date and time and entry requirements.
Think any of that will spill over into Smash?
I'm not holding my breath for tournaments. If there was this option, I think it would have been announced already. It's a shame though, because it's a damn great option.
Replays, I can see happening. I really, really hope they go as far as letting us upload them to youtube as well, but I'd be happy even if it was Miiverse only. Hell, I'd be happy just to have longer replays, showing player names and more freedom to select specific parts to watch.
Just let us save replays (I assume they work like RTS games where they only save button-input, variables, etc) for as much disk space as we can afford (longer if we have external disk, or SD card), and upload those matches, no matter how long. I assume an 8 minute match cant be more than a few megs, as long as it's not saving video or something. Convert to a video and upload to youtube, as long as processing/ram permit. Going to be amazing for replays of all of those 'omg' moments. Not holding my breath for any editing tools, but i'll take what I can get.
Welcome to smashgaf. You can never leave.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I'm totally ok with 'preset physics modes', because they still 'OWN' those modes and they're easily testable (3-4 things to test versus 30-30,000 things to test).
I'd totally love a smash 64 mode where the physics were smash 64 style, especially if everyone gets a low-poly model!
Holy shit, low-poly Smash 64 models would be SOOOO LEGIT! They could promote it similar to how Killer Instinct has those classic outfits and how they're making classic outfits for characters that weren't in the original games (Sadira).
Would be so badass.
Welcome!
The point we're trying to make is that what you're asking for is incredibly time intensive, cost in money aside. We're talking about a fighting game, where hit boxes are measured to the pixel, priority rules have to be reviewed multiple times, and a single extra frame can turn a move from being overpowered to being essentially useless. And you're asking for what is essentially a debug mode, except fully tested for every possible crash upon interaction, and then each of those crashes addressed.
To give you an idea, Project M was released in 2011, almost 3 years after Brawl was released, and took another year and about 6 revisions before it was feature complete. And that was just tweaking an existing system. Now, Nintendo has much more manpower, but they'd be testing an exponentially greater number of options. An extra year of dev time is a very generous estimate. An extra two or three years is more likely.
Isn't that basically what Special Brawl/Melee was? You could even combine certain special modes, to tweak it more. If what you're asking for is more Special Smash modes, then yes, I'm 100% there with you. But if you're actually asking for the ability to add/remove certain parts of the game (like completely stripping pratfalls out of Brawl, or adding L-Cancel back in, or altering ledge grab mechanics), or a slider for game physics features, then that's an unrealistic expectation if you want the game this year.
NeonZ
Member
I think they might outright replace his PK Thunder with something else this time, considering how they changed the Up B tether recoveries into standard Up B recoveries, but didn't eliminate them completely. It seems like the main goal there was to make them more accessible. Maybe PK Teleport?
This image background reminds me of the Brawl reveal trailer. I wonder if its a stage they use for playtesting.
Great, more sacrifices for the Ridley ritual.
I just noticed this earlier when re-watching the Direct, dunno if anyone took note of it during the initial run but I thought it was funny nonetheless.
Anyone notice that Diddy's icon on the HUD uses the Brawl render? Kind of an odd error. Further in the footage they also use Lucario's Brawl render as well.
Anyone notice that Diddy's icon on the HUD uses the Brawl render? Kind of an odd error. Further in the footage they also use Lucario's Brawl render as well.
Run away, NOW!
Nintendo's taking the Capcom approach. Watch Ice Climbers use the Brawl model in-game.
theprodigy
Member
Placeholder? Unless that stuff was edited in.
Check your sanity at the door and welcome to the madness that is SmashGAF
NeonZ
Member
This game started development by porting Brawl. They likely just hadn't added the new render yet.
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