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Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.
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archnemesis
Member
The US representative is surprisingly direct. I should listen to these more often.
Edit: Oh, my school French is rustier than I thought. This is going to be difficult.
Edit: Oh, my school French is rustier than I thought. This is going to be difficult.
Put it on English in the bottom right for the translation.
You can set the language to English if you need to.
Also, has the German position always been that the armed separatists are supported by Russia or is that new?
I thought the German ambassadors were more soft in their language toward Russia.
archnemesis
Member
Nah, this is good practice for me. I've studied Spanish too. It's easier when you're familiar with the topic.
Edit: I gave up at Chinese.
Edit: I gave up at Chinese.
jakonovski
Member
The Ukranian forces modified a medical truck with a Flak. If they use this thing inside a city it will not only be a violation of the Hague Convention respecting the war on land, it will kill everything in its way. The pro-Russian forces are not using any form of air force.
They went full-retard.
source
To quell some of the knee jerk reaction:
1) Are you sure that's a medical truck? There is something resembling a cross but it's just a random open bed cargo carrier.
2) A 23mm AA gun isn't exactly the most terrifying weapon in existence. There are equivalent guns in use against ground targets that are just as bad or worse, including those on IFVs that have been used by both sides.
3) They haven't actually done a flak truck rampage yet. Which makes sense, because the whole thing would be a burning wreck in like ten minutes. Because it's completely unarmored and the crew is completely exposed.
No one cares I knowSviatoslav
Member
Why do so many of these people keep bringing up the Geneva meeting? How could that ever work when nobody representing the protesters was present during the talks.
As you put it earlier, have you any idea what kind of bullshit you just wrote?
That's a ZU-23-2, a 23mm autocannon - it won't 'kill everything in its way'. (It's pretty outdated.) That BTR is a more menacing threat. That isn't a medical truck, either - what gives anyone that fucking idea? LOL. - Where are the protective symbols? ...
One building is on fire: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sergackovatvPro-Ukrainian defenders prepare Molotov's for battle with Pro Russian insurrectionists:
People are dying in Odessa. What I've read, but can in no way confirm: Pro-Russians are inside the building which is burning. A burned corpse was hanging out of the building.
People are now cheering after a Ukrainian flag was raised over the building.
Edit: Better video: http://kontrmaidan.ru/streams/30 << As people flee the building they are being beaten by the crowd.
Edit 2: Corpses and heavily wounded being pulled out of the building, surrounded by angry mob. Some people are saying that the pro-Russians were shooting from the top of the building. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmpZQh4IUAECom6.jpg -- Earlier today, dead protesters draped with Ukrainian flags.
https://twitter.com/howardamos -- This man says he has 7 dead pro-Russians pulled from the burning building.
SlipperySlope
Banned
What is China saying?
Essentially that all parties involved should commit to swift de-escalation, that the current violence most stop immediately and that the Geneva agreement should be honoured by all involved.
Phantast2k
Member
Odessa is supposed to be super diverse and an overwhelming majority of the people speak Russian so a supposed oppression of Russians /Russian speakers there sounds like a joke. Those protesters likely just don't want any of those imported green men (this time from Crimea and Transnistria) and the inevitable chaos that follows them.
Having said all that: get your children home, you idiots.
The Russian diplomat who is currently speaking sounds like an empty vessel of truth. I liked it how he corrected himself just now. First going: "the Ukrainian elections on May, 25th, I'm sorry the planned Ukrainian elections"..
Having said all that: get your children home, you idiots.
The Russian diplomat who is currently speaking sounds like an empty vessel of truth. I liked it how he corrected himself just now. First going: "the Ukrainian elections on May, 25th, I'm sorry the planned Ukrainian elections"..
MisterFalcon
Member
That's not a Red Cross symnol but an unit symbol, probably an airborne unit. It's also on other vehicles.
The Ukranian forces modified a medical truck with a Flak. If they use this thing inside a city it will not only be a violation of the Hague Convention respecting the war on land, it will kill everything in its way. The pro-Russian forces are not using any form of air force.
They went full-retard.
source
Looks like the standard way to transport an AA cannon in a standard military transport truck. You can see its cover that's been pulled back. How did you think the thing was going to turn without smashing through the sides of the truck?
Full-retard, indeed.
Not wanting to drag the thread off topic but the Georgian army shelling of South Ossetian insurrectionist positions was fully justified given the months of provocation directed towards the Georgian state. And now the very same is happening in Ukraine, creating a situation where Russia has "no other choice" but to "liberate" those restive regions (after creating that very situation).
The usual flacid, timid bullshit about respecting all sides, blah, blah, blah..... Sometimes I wonder why China even bothers turning up at the UNSC if the topic isn't about the Asia-Pacific region.
Then don't.
The odessa1 ustream linked earlier showed the bolded part. The cameraman zoomed in and there what I assume to be pro-russian militants geared up firing shots from the roof with pistols.
Here is the part of the live stream that was really shocking to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfqoWVwmP2Q -- GRAPHIC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfqoWVwmP2Q -- GRAPHIC
Here is footage from inside the burnt out trade union building where pro Russian insurgents where holed up. Video shows scores of burnt bodies so viewer discretion is advised. Putin will be delighted with such footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9_z6Cdf3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9_z6Cdf3g
phxxBullet
Banned
Step 1: Drink all the beerPro-Ukrainian defenders prepare Molotov's for battle with Pro Russian insurrectionists:
Step 2: Fill in gasoline into empty bottles
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!
Yeah, they where. But after they "arrested" some OSZE-observer (who afaik didn't have any documents on them to prove who they are and why they are there), including 4 Germans, they are a bit pissed.
Molotov Cocktails can be a highly effective weapon if used in the right way and in sufficient numbers. Maidan protesters took out a APC with a barrage of Molotovs during the anti Yan protests.
Anyway, a picture, or rather infographic, speaks a thousand words. Ukraine is nearly surrounded by Russian forces, apart from NATO to the West. Not shown is the tens of thousands of Russian troops stationed in Belarus, Russia's puppet entity.
Source: http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/russias-buildup-on-the-ukraine-border/996/
In that video, at the 9:00 mark pro-Maidans joke about the man and women dead together -- 'Romeo and Juliet'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv9J3OYlaoA#t=469 -- VERY GRAPHIC -- Thugs beat a man after he had jumped out of the burning building. His leg is horrifically fractured.
Had to get some sleep.
Sad that so much life was lost today. It is likely a tipping point in the whole thing and its been a long time coming. Pro-Ukrainians are starting to stand up for themselves. Lets not forget this all started when several hundred Anti-Maidan rushed in and started to beat up and kill pro-Ukrainians to try and prevent the scheduled Rally from happening.
Dark Day for Ukraine as a people but hopefully it can lead to a resolution of all this
Sad that so much life was lost today. It is likely a tipping point in the whole thing and its been a long time coming. Pro-Ukrainians are starting to stand up for themselves. Lets not forget this all started when several hundred Anti-Maidan rushed in and started to beat up and kill pro-Ukrainians to try and prevent the scheduled Rally from happening.
Dark Day for Ukraine as a people but hopefully it can lead to a resolution of all this
This is true. Bloody hands on both sides.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Whoever started the fire they need to be brought to account. No matter the "side"
I hope that politicians on both side see this. Both sides did some shocking stuff today. Maybe this event is so shocking that it may galvanise a renewed attempt at diplomacy. Somehow I doubt it though.
If russia does invade under the pretext of peace keepers then todays events will be small fry.
Yep. They need to be arrested. Some of the football fans in the Ukraine can be utterly mental.
jakonovski
Member
With the utter madness in Odessa (not gonna watch any of those videos tyvm), I feel that frenzied mobs might have a large part to play here. The Ukrainian army may take out organized separatists, but there's nothing they can do about a cycle of revenge among civilians. Or maybe the people involved will wake up and realize what they've done, but I seriously doubt that.
Sviatoslav
Member
If Russia doesn't invade after these events in Odessa then quite a few people in this thread are going to end up looking pretty silly.
Sviatoslav
Member
If things continue the way they are now then I fear what will happen may 9th. Could be a lot of clashes.
Great infographic, thanks !
Video from Vice News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYkwVX3ivnc
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj0N2iS5g_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYkwVX3ivnc
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj0N2iS5g_k
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Leave it to you and empty vessel to use tragedy to confirm your own biases, you two are simply extremes of both sides. Killing 20-30 (up to 38 now) people (burning them no less) has no justification, neither in this context nor in anyone else. Otherwise the same argument could be made for all those killed in the maiden protests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AMjLBIliw -- Here's a video of how the whole fire event unfolded. Nothing graphic.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-odessa-building-fire -- An article by Howard Amos, the excellent journalist who saw the events unfold.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Jesus, what a bloody mess.
What happened in Odessa is a huge tragedy, regardless of what side the victims were. The very fact this was allowed to happen is deplorable. There are numerous images coming in of the police doing nothing even as people pointed guns right in front of their eyes etc. You can only beat and trample people so long before they stand up for themselves.
Hopefully both sides will see what has happened and step back and actually open a dialogue so we do not see another day such as this.
Sadly it is now being reported the death toll for the day has reached 42 and 170 injured.
Phantast2k
Member
Tragic, I hope this was the peak of this conflict, but it's hard to believe..
Some stuff from fb (from ppl. with relatives in Odessa):
- Pro-Russian camps got out of hand over the past few days: attacking Pro-Ukrainian / Maidan activists (inkl. some from right sector) but also impeding business in the city center
- Since a few days a number of "Romanian-looking" people (some with openly Transdniestrian insignia and flags) arrived at the camp near that union building and also more people started wearing masks
- Today they attacked a Pro-Ukrainian demo which was guarded by ppl. armed with shields and bats (presumably some sort of Odessian right sector only with Armenians and Jews..), they were loosing and got dispersed some, but then it got strengthened with football fans / hooligans (Odessa football club was playing Kharkiv today) who skipped the game so they fought back and easily gained upper hand which is when the police started to actively protect the Pro-Russians
- When pinned down, Pro-Russians used firearms and molotovs, while Pro-Ukrainians responded with molotovs and stones. Even more people, incl. regular citizens, came out and kept pushing Pro-Russians back to their camps to that building
- Pro-Russians fled to the building, while their camps were set on fire. From inside the building, Pro-Russians kept shooting out of the windows, throwing molotovs, and heavy, dangerous objects
- People who pinned them down answered with molotovs and thus the building caught fire.
A yt channel offering captures of the tv broadcast of the local Odessa tv station: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnQiId53wZBpXcwhfbOqUA (only of the events of the evening when the fire was underway, done)
Here is a yt channel that shows the events during the day:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeyv6EKYMOznwt0TzCeX3oA
Following stuff is interesting:
A wild Transdniestrian appears:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUu6UQWJOU&t=1m23s
A car that got broken into by Pro-Ukrainians because it had "Donezk republic" symbols: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUu6UQWJOU&t=2m55s (ammunition box at 3:33)
That one fb friend's relative's video of that same car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_CpQ4nnoME
Pro-Russian with a gun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xvlWNdOZd0&t=1m07s
Pro-Russians inside / on top of that building:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6EpRhFl8SU&t=1m20s
/edit
People claiming even more Pro-Russians came hiding between Kharkhiv fans (though they may overlap too) - so there's even more of a football hooligan flavor to it (reminds me of Egypt not too long ago).
Some stuff from fb (from ppl. with relatives in Odessa):
- Pro-Russian camps got out of hand over the past few days: attacking Pro-Ukrainian / Maidan activists (inkl. some from right sector) but also impeding business in the city center
- Since a few days a number of "Romanian-looking" people (some with openly Transdniestrian insignia and flags) arrived at the camp near that union building and also more people started wearing masks
- Today they attacked a Pro-Ukrainian demo which was guarded by ppl. armed with shields and bats (presumably some sort of Odessian right sector only with Armenians and Jews..), they were loosing and got dispersed some, but then it got strengthened with football fans / hooligans (Odessa football club was playing Kharkiv today) who skipped the game so they fought back and easily gained upper hand which is when the police started to actively protect the Pro-Russians
- When pinned down, Pro-Russians used firearms and molotovs, while Pro-Ukrainians responded with molotovs and stones. Even more people, incl. regular citizens, came out and kept pushing Pro-Russians back to their camps to that building
- Pro-Russians fled to the building, while their camps were set on fire. From inside the building, Pro-Russians kept shooting out of the windows, throwing molotovs, and heavy, dangerous objects
- People who pinned them down answered with molotovs and thus the building caught fire.
A yt channel offering captures of the tv broadcast of the local Odessa tv station: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnQiId53wZBpXcwhfbOqUA (only of the events of the evening when the fire was underway, done)
Here is a yt channel that shows the events during the day:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeyv6EKYMOznwt0TzCeX3oA
Following stuff is interesting:
A wild Transdniestrian appears:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUu6UQWJOU&t=1m23s
A car that got broken into by Pro-Ukrainians because it had "Donezk republic" symbols: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUu6UQWJOU&t=2m55s (ammunition box at 3:33)
That one fb friend's relative's video of that same car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_CpQ4nnoME
Pro-Russian with a gun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xvlWNdOZd0&t=1m07s
Pro-Russians inside / on top of that building:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6EpRhFl8SU&t=1m20s
/edit
People claiming even more Pro-Russians came hiding between Kharkhiv fans (though they may overlap too) - so there's even more of a football hooligan flavor to it (reminds me of Egypt not too long ago).
Partial Gamification
Banned
I wonder if any of the pro-Russian supporters captured in Odessa are from Odessa. If so, getting that information out might be good for understanding eachother on a human level.
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