She better at least get a model refresh :<
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: How Can My Smash Brother Be This Cut
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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She better at least get a model refresh :<
Neoriceisgood
Member
Biggest let down?
Right now nothing yet.
Right now nothing yet.
Brawl airdodge, no question. I loved having the extra movement options.
theprodigy
Member
of course this turned into "your favorite character that isn't playable" immediately >_>
I knew i should have put that caveat in there :/
I'm sure they're just trying to avoid accidental wave-dashing or some other exploit. It was nice, though. Oh well.
Nights Owl
Member
Most Disappointing?
I'd like FD AND Battlefield Stages. Every stage being FD doesn't always make it more of a fair fight. Add some damn platforms. That can truly change the outcome of the match. Some characters just work better with plats.
I'd like FD AND Battlefield Stages. Every stage being FD doesn't always make it more of a fair fight. Add some damn platforms. That can truly change the outcome of the match. Some characters just work better with plats.
It sure would be nice!
And yes, actually, For Glory mode being FD-exclusive is pretty disappointing. I guess the gesture itself is nice, but some stage variety in the mode would be better.
Good call, totally forgot about that. I don't think it's too farfetched to add 3 platforms to those same stages as a 3rd alternative. I'm pretty sure that battlefield's stage (not platforms) and FD's stage are different dimensions, though, so maybe it would be extra work to get the dimensions just right.
BassForever
Member
Gonna agree with skull kid's at being a stage flip and not a moon summon or something.
Skull kid should not be playable though that doesn't bother me
Also for glory mode isn't worthless because its fd only, its worthless because it seems we can't pick if we do 1 v 1 or 4 way brawls. If I'm going for glory I want 1 v 1 only
Skull kid should not be playable though that doesn't bother me
Also for glory mode isn't worthless because its fd only, its worthless because it seems we can't pick if we do 1 v 1 or 4 way brawls. If I'm going for glory I want 1 v 1 only
I wish they would add a 'wavedash' button (get rid of the redundant jump button for it) and make L-cancelling automatic. That way the game could still be fluid, and new players wouldn't panic about buttons. Somehow I'm sure Nintendo feels like anything fun will make someone cry though, so I'm not holding out hope.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Valid concerns. For Wii remote, I'd honestly say just don't support that format this time around. It's not the default controller for this system, and I've never found it to be a good fit for Smash Bros. I know some do like it though... it could be made to work, but then you'd have to grab with shield+A. That's still way less obtuse to me than using up to jump every time though.
It could just as well only work on the ground. I think having it work in the air as a quick forward dash would be pretty cool though (and I think this was suggested along with some other stuff in the last few pages).
Let's think about this from a design perspective though. What advantage does a wavedash give the player? It's good for positioning and movement, right? It also enables the fighter to use any attack/ability upon landing. It puts them into a 'standing' state, even while sliding, so they can perform a move that can't be performed while dashing. Is that about the general idea?
Why have wavedashing/wavedash button if you just enable all the stuff wavedashing enables? Allow shielding/sidestepping/specials while dashing. Allow faster direction change, or something to replace it (back roll from a dash, for example). Give all of the utility that a wavedash provides without actually needing to wavedash.
The same can be said for L cancelling. L cancelling is the most pointless gimmick mechanic ever. Press L to speed up recovery? Why not just speed up recovery without the need for pressing L? All you're doing is punishing people for not pressing L at the right time.
There are ways to keep utility, or remove the need for said utility, without needing to keep in wavedashing or L cancelling or anything of the sort. I'm all for that. No need to give me carpal tunnel syndrome so that I can stay competitive.
Benzychenz
Member
Biggest disappointment is Link's face.
I don't think L-Canceling should be automatic or even in the game. I think the best compromise would be to balance certain air moves so that they have no recovery upon landing while others would retain their recovery. The player would then have to choose what moves to do and when.
In fighting games I prefer players having to make quick decisions. L-Canceling seems to be always the best decision and is only prevented by a technical skill boundary, which I'm against technical skill boundaries for the sake of having them.
A wave dash button sounds pretty awful. I think it would be particularly odd that a game series that spends so much time and effort replicating how characters move and animate from their respective series would allow people to flit around the screen constantly as every character.
Again, ideally they would compromise and change the mechanics slightly so that the benefits of wavedashing would be accessible somewhat in their normal move set.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Should we also make characters automatically tech to the stage when flying away then? Should all shields be power shields? If we get rid of some advanced techniques, why not
get rid of all of then?
Exactly. There are ways to balance the game that negate the need for L cancelling or wave dashing. Maybe some characters are faster at turning around or positioning. Maybe some characters have better recovery on some air moves. Maybe some characters can use certain B moves while dashing more effectively (or at all) than other. Maybe come characters dashing attacks leave them less open than others.
Just balance the game so that wavedashing doesn't matter.
If it makes sense to get rid of the mechanic (because you'd ALWAYS want to use it no matter what), then get rid of it or make it automatic. If it makes sense to give a mechanic to one character to balance them, but then not another, then give that mechanic to those characters that need it. Just balance the game around certain mechanics so that things like wave dashing or l cancelling aren't needed.
Edit: I'm sure many people agree that they don't want to constantly have to be mashing buttons and hurting their hands all so they can have a competitive advantage. Most people don't want that. That's all i'm trying to say. The loss of wavedashing isn't a bad thing as long as the game is balanced around not needing it.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Changing my vote to this.
I like the direction you're going there, but I'm not quite sure I see how it would work. The purposes you identified are pretty much correct. Allowing all the out of dash is hard to imagine. How would you do a dash attack vs a jab/smash out of dash? Backrolling is often too slow. Shielding in dash is already possible, so you can already roll/dodge from dash. You could rectify the movement issue by letting players turn around quickly at any point in the dash. Overall I think it would still work better to have a button that let's players enter a sliding/standing state while retaining control and mobility.
Pretty much agreed. That's why I think it would be better overall to make it automatic. (Which, I guess in that case, it wouldn't be a thing, which is fine). I've seen arguments for keeping it manual: usually particular cases where the timing can vary enough to mess up the unskilled. I don't think that's worth the loss of accessibility (I know, usually a dirty word) though.
I'm not sure, but I think we're on the same page with this? Automatic L-cancelling would just mean that aerials recover faster, and the player would never have to hit L/R to cancel lag. I think I just came off unclear there; calling reduced lag automatic L-cancelling made sense from my frame of reference.
I'd just have to respectfully disagree here. Flitting around the screen like so is fun, and I'd want enjoyable game-wide mechanics over every character being true to their own series. If they can find away to give those benefits without something similar in function, then I'm for that.
Just to be clear though, I am aware there is no dash button and never will be.
Personally, I'm not a fan of how shielding works in Smash as it seems unnecessarily complicated for a game that streamlines most other mechanics. I'd prefer if pressing the shield button produced a shield that is always the same size, always covers your character, and grows weaker the longer it is out/more damage it takes. The varying shield sizes in Melee annoyed me.
The only other thing I could think of to add to that mechanic is moving the stick to focus the shield completely in one direction, creating a stronger shield but leaving you open in whatever direction your shield isn't focused on (focus the shield left and you can be hit from the right, above, and below). Of course, that would screw up sidestepping and rolling from shielding seemingly so I really don't recommend this idea.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I imagine that would be a fucking nightmare to do for this game.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yep, it's pretty same thing for DK and Diddy not having DKCRTF furs.
Yeah, it was like that in brawl, too. Better claymation toon link than how he looked in brawl.
Ugh his hair.
So, toon link in 2 smash bros, you think he's a permanent inclusion from now on? Even if they never use toon link in another zelda game ever again?
Yep. This is mine.
That's pretty good, all things considered. Although, it's hard to get disappointed when not everything is announced. True disappointment starts once everything is revealed.
Hot Coldman
Banned
He's the most iconic Young Link design at this point, starring in 6 games at this point. I'd say he'll stick around in Smash from now on.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
What if we get a *NEW* young link design in the future? Will they replace toon link, or just ADD the new version of young link as a 3rd link option?
Some techniques give a greater sense of player agency, and have more interesting rewards. In particular, I'd argue that both of those are defensive, often requiring you to react to or predict a move your opponent uses. With cancelling lag though, you should generally be in control of when you do moves and when you hit the ground. I could see the case for keeping manual L-cancelling, I just don't really think it's worth it.
"Advanced techs" is also quite the blanket term. Just because some options aren't immediately obvious, doesn't mean they all have equivalent value from gameplay or design perspectives.
Technically we did, with ALBW.
I'm just wondering if toon link is iconic enough to always be there or if he will eventually be replaced by a more recent version of link.
Disappointments?
Not using Alph.
Torn between character transformation splits. Feels too much like a mugen roster. I mean at this point why not go full on Skyward Sword and make the models based on that game and use Impa? Already split Sheik apart. Feels like they kept TP models to justify bringing back Ganondorf. If he ends up being a clone again, who gives a shit if he returns?
Not using Alph.
Torn between character transformation splits. Feels too much like a mugen roster. I mean at this point why not go full on Skyward Sword and make the models based on that game and use Impa? Already split Sheik apart. Feels like they kept TP models to justify bringing back Ganondorf. If he ends up being a clone again, who gives a shit if he returns?
I think impa would be a great addition for the next smash bros to replace sheik. I guess that depends on what the Wii U zelda does, and if it has impa at all. Ninja impa is best impa.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Alot of fighters have matches that only last a few seconds cause HP gets depleted so fast.
Hot Coldman
Banned
We already did get one:
(Well, OK, ALBW Link is kinda a mish-mash of ALttP/Oracles/OoT designs, but whatever, point is Toon Link is still around. I imagine he'll get another game at some point too: remember that ALBW was originally going to star Toon Link.)
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I don't think I even need to say it
I remember there was an edit of this with Sakurai in place of Red but I can't for the life of me find it.
You already know
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
They aint going to get this unless they watch hellsing
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Guys, seriously, have you looked at his face instead of awkward screenshots of it? it looks completely fine.
Look at any video where link is in, like the developer direct, his face looks like it should.
C.Olimar788
Member
My biggest disappointment is the general treatment of the Metroid playable characters thusfar. We're still stuck with only two versions of Samus as far as we can tell, with Dark Samus being an AT and Ridley a boss, and... well, regular Samus isn't too bad (though her design leaves a lot to be desired) but ZSS is just awful. Not only has her design changed for the worse but her animations have apparently been tailored for MAXIMUM FANSERVICE. Samus deserves better. Metroid as a franchise deserves better.
And the worst thing is I can't even blame Sakamoto and the atrocity that is Other M as neither of those things would have had anything to do with this godawful pose. Plus the Legend of Zelda series got away with using designs that weren't from the most recent game, why couldn't the Metroid series...?
On the plus side, the Metroid Assist Trophies all look absolutely glorious, so at least the series is getting some good representation.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Biggest disappointment for me is not using Skyward Sword Zelda. All the Zelda characters being based on TP or WW feels like they haven't moved past Brawl in that respect.
It's hard for me to decide between Skull Kid, Dark Samus and Dillon being Assist Trophies.
All three are among my favorite Nintendo characters.
SenorArdilla
Member
You saying that there's going to be an anime tie-in to SSB4?
SoldnerKei
Member
at least she has a chance to appear in DoA if they make a port for Wii U someday
the most disappointing reveal so far... I think it would be the Villager, I know a lot of people are excited to play with it, but to me is another character I will never use, just like R.O.B in brawl
at least she has a chance to appear in DoA if they make a port for Wii U someday
the most disappointing reveal so far... I think it would be the Villager, I know a lot of people are excited to play with it, but to me is another character I will never use, just like R.O.B in brawl
How can an inclusion mean disappointment? You don't have to use him, he doesn't make the game worse for you.
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