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Heroes of the Storm Technical Alpha Thread: [Artifacts Removed]
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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TurtleSnatcher
Member
The game is pretty balanced but I would say Kerrigan and Raynor are the two best.
These are who I think are the best per class.
Ranged Assassin
Raynor
Melee Assasin
Kerrigan
Tank
Diablo & ETC
Support
Tassadar / Uther / Malfurion
Specialist
Sgt Hammer / Gazlowe / Witch Doctor
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Holy crap! I just loaded up the Battle.net launcher and there it was! I didn't get an email, but I am downloading it right now.
Congrats! Welcome to the fun and addiction
I'd agree with this, except I'd say ETC is definitely above Diablo unless you build your comp for Diablo, and Abathur is definitely the best Specialist even with the caveat of needing certain comps just from his XP soaking ability. Hammer is my favorite hero but feels mid-tier along with Gazlowe, if only because they can be hard countered. Witch Doctor I would have considered mid-tier too until some things were pointed out to me today, so now I'd rate him bottom tier (the game wide move speed buff didn't account for his skills).
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Diablo is more agressive as a tank and can really CC an individual target better than ETC. His body blocking is the biggest caveat with throw.
With the Souls = HP talent, Diablo can have the highest HP in the game. Especially if you incorporate the increase to his max soul count. He's pretty formidable.
As for Gazlowe/Hammer. I think Hammer is better than some assassins in the game. She has huge range and is amazing at lane pushing. Gazlowe with Merc Lord is crazy. He can solo knights at level 1 within the first 1.5 mins and has really good skills even beyond that as Turrets can hold people off objectives and his laser is incredibly strong. His Ultimate also is one of the best Ultimates for Wombo Combo teams.
Abathur - I totally disagree with. He is good for lane pushing and i think that is where he shines. People constantly believe his symbiote is his best abilities but I disagree. In fact, I think most of the big named streamers agree that he is fairly meh and everyone is dreading this week as randoms are always picking Abathur.
If he is used for lane pushing only.. then he is just 'ok'
Witch Doctor has one of the best Ults in the game so I can't deny him from being fairly high up there. His CC with Wall is great as well and he can have some crazy DPS after 10 with talents.
I like Stitches way more than diablo for effective disruption, as long as you can hit a hook. Yeah big D has more hp (And I love Diablo don't get me wrong), but he doesn't do QUITE enough as a warrior to me compared to Stiches and ETC, where the role is designed to initiate and disrupt, they're definitely the top 3 imo but I think Overpower/charge is less potent than mosh pit, stage dive (which allows nice split pushing of course), hook or devour. Apocalypse is very good in teamfights though since it's almost assuredly going to stun at least a few of them. But you could just as easily say mosh pit is going to do the same but better if it came to it.
WD does way more to fuck my games up than Ab or Gazlowe ever have most of the time, I know gazlowe is like super merc camp master but I rarely see it happening, maybe just need to play more pros. Abathur pisses me off since he's good at finding the mismatched lanes and his ultimate is obviously really good, but otherwise past the first level or two I feel like his influence really falls off - it sucks when everyone has almost no hp, and it sucks when he copies a strong hero late game, but the rest of the time I don't even notice him.
WD does way more to fuck my games up than Ab or Gazlowe ever have most of the time, I know gazlowe is like super merc camp master but I rarely see it happening, maybe just need to play more pros. Abathur pisses me off since he's good at finding the mismatched lanes and his ultimate is obviously really good, but otherwise past the first level or two I feel like his influence really falls off - it sucks when everyone has almost no hp, and it sucks when he copies a strong hero late game, but the rest of the time I don't even notice him.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
I think Ults wise, ETC is way better. But the amount of interrupts that Diablo has are just as good with a higher HP pool. ETC though is just right up there with Diablo.
Stitches is okay but he is very much a 'Take this 1 dude out' type of guy and not so much a guy who can sit in the middle of a pack and disrupt the living jesus out of everyone.
Completely agreed, but Diablo only disrupts one person as well honestly. You can charge someone aside from your overpower target, but it's not very disruptive to split the abilities. Apocalypsei s really his only teamfight AE disruption. Stitches REALLY disrupts that one guy, even going as far as to let you pull someone in as an initiate from very far away, eat them, walk them farther away, and just gangbang them prior to even engaging anyone else.
ETC is the only one of the three with very strong consistent AE disruption, which is why I'd say Stitches = ETC > Diablo just barely. Diablo's high HP definitely counts for something though, I love him a lot.
Basically: AE disruption ETC >>> Diablo>Stitches
Single target disruption: Stitches >> Diablo >>> Etc.
This is why I'd put Diablo third. It's not just that he's second in the two important categories, he's VASTLY second imo.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
In team fights, Diablo can charge in and stun someone disrupting a channeled spell or just causing mass chaos. Followed by an overpower on another target.
Hell even with talents, Shadow Charge can slow the target which adds an additional disrupt to them and you can also get an additional Overpower charge. A WD doing an ult suddenly stops, a Tychus doing Overkill suddenly stops, a Strafe from a DH suddenly stops, etc. It works like any other stun etc. It is pretty strong. That on top of Apocalypse can lead to some chaos. Also people sometimes tend to burn him down with his high hp only to have him back in the battle 5 secs later because of souls.
I agree about ETC disrupts.. he has the most. ETC may be a slightly better, you may be right but Souls are just so damn good with Diablo. Stitches to me isn't nearly as close in single target disruption. Also hook as a longer cooldown and the chances of it missing are very high unlike Shadow Charge which hits 100% since it needs a target to target on.
Eh a solid argument. I think stitches will be less good once hook engage range isn't so ridiculous. Either way I think it's fairly clear that these three are the top warriors atm. my 2 cents.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
So being a guy that enjoys fighting games, I figured i would build out a tier list like that but split amongst classes.
These are my thoughts. I think LiLi potentially is a bit better than what I have above but her lack of being able to heal herself until Level 7 with an almost mandatory talent is kind of sucky but she has good escape mechanics. I really think there are no S Tier Specialist or Tanks. But there are good ones.. just not on the same level as a Kerrigan or Raynor or something.
These are my thoughts. I think LiLi potentially is a bit better than what I have above but her lack of being able to heal herself until Level 7 with an almost mandatory talent is kind of sucky but she has good escape mechanics. I really think there are no S Tier Specialist or Tanks. But there are good ones.. just not on the same level as a Kerrigan or Raynor or something.
I know about all of the things that the characters can do. I know the meta builds. I'd still only put ETC a solid step above Diablo because he has better CC and better escape, highest health and fast respawn be damned.
Witch Doctor having a good ult doesn't make up for his other weaknesses in general. Build a synergistic comp with him and he becomes hell of a lot better. For that same reason, I'll agree that I rated Abathur too highly.
Gazlowe being able to merc early is great, and he has great pushing power. Specialists in general have great pushing power. I'd rate him about the same as all the other Specialists for that very same reason, and definitely not highest. He's not the only one that can merc from level 1, although he is currently the only one that can merc a knight camp from level 1 and I can't help but feel that that will get nerfed.
To be fair, this game has really good balance right now.
As for your tier list, I mostly agree. Main changes for my opinion on the characters:
I wouldn't have any + or - designations and just put them at the bottom or top of those letters.
Nova is the worst of the tier A Assassins.
Illidan is possibly above Zeratul because of his early merc abilities.
Tyreal is a tier C Warrior to me, but I admit I have little experience around any exceptional ones.
Tyrande is above Li Li in tier B of Supports.
Tier A Supports would be Uther or Malfurion > Brightwing
Specialist list would be Abathur > Gazlowe > Hammer at A tier, with Witch Doctor B tier.
Anything in Tier A is just about perfect to me, with want of some numbers or mechanic changes at most. Tier S needs to be nerfed. Tier B needs some oomph added to talents and skills, but can still be played well if you're not afraid of getting focused. Tyrande is closest to Tier A of everyone I'd rank Tier B. The three Tier C characters can be very fun, but just don't seem to work well enough in this setting. I'm unsure if the number of tweaks they'd need to be brought up is worth it, or if they need to be redesigned somewhat.
Witch Doctor having a good ult doesn't make up for his other weaknesses in general. Build a synergistic comp with him and he becomes hell of a lot better. For that same reason, I'll agree that I rated Abathur too highly.
Gazlowe being able to merc early is great, and he has great pushing power. Specialists in general have great pushing power. I'd rate him about the same as all the other Specialists for that very same reason, and definitely not highest. He's not the only one that can merc from level 1, although he is currently the only one that can merc a knight camp from level 1 and I can't help but feel that that will get nerfed.
To be fair, this game has really good balance right now.
As for your tier list, I mostly agree. Main changes for my opinion on the characters:
I wouldn't have any + or - designations and just put them at the bottom or top of those letters.
Nova is the worst of the tier A Assassins.
Illidan is possibly above Zeratul because of his early merc abilities.
Tyreal is a tier C Warrior to me, but I admit I have little experience around any exceptional ones.
Tyrande is above Li Li in tier B of Supports.
Tier A Supports would be Uther or Malfurion > Brightwing
Specialist list would be Abathur > Gazlowe > Hammer at A tier, with Witch Doctor B tier.
Anything in Tier A is just about perfect to me, with want of some numbers or mechanic changes at most. Tier S needs to be nerfed. Tier B needs some oomph added to talents and skills, but can still be played well if you're not afraid of getting focused. Tyrande is closest to Tier A of everyone I'd rank Tier B. The three Tier C characters can be very fun, but just don't seem to work well enough in this setting. I'm unsure if the number of tweaks they'd need to be brought up is worth it, or if they need to be redesigned somewhat.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Good notes.
I will still argue for Gazlowe as Merc Lord is huge and other specialists do not have that ability. Having Merc lord on Gaz just makes him hands down the best mercenary camp killer in the game and the one that can offer the team the best pushing capabilities. Hammer can push by herself the best as a Specialist but it's a team game and it's hard to do so without someone actually noticing (unless they are terrible)
Agreed on Uther > Brightwing. Malf I think is still better due to Tranquilty and escape skills/CC skills with Root that can catch multiple people as opposed to one with Hammer of Justice.
Agreed on Illidan ... I should probably break some of these out more.
As for why there is + and -... well like I said, i am doing it like fighting games ;p
I will still argue for Gazlowe as Merc Lord is huge and other specialists do not have that ability. Having Merc lord on Gaz just makes him hands down the best mercenary camp killer in the game and the one that can offer the team the best pushing capabilities. Hammer can push by herself the best as a Specialist but it's a team game and it's hard to do so without someone actually noticing (unless they are terrible)
Agreed on Uther > Brightwing. Malf I think is still better due to Tranquilty and escape skills/CC skills with Root that can catch multiple people as opposed to one with Hammer of Justice.
Agreed on Illidan ... I should probably break some of these out more.
As for why there is + and -... well like I said, i am doing it like fighting games ;p
One of my issues with Gazlowe is the fact that he can be interrupted during mercing. Sometimes his turrets makes the aggressor regret their decision, and other times he's just straight up killed and then the enemy waits out the turrets. Merc Lord's boost is also exceptionally powerful, but it comes late enough that other characters are getting the stat levels and talents necessary to solo merc camps quickly themselves, or slay opposing and unprotected mercs easily.
I mean at this point, I fear Gazlowe more for his early tower pushing ability from his turrets, especially when he has backup. It could also be that free Gazlowe week is filling my memories with easier Gazlowe's to deal with. I've seen very few groups of people really push well with Gazlowe's merc abilities instead of falling into the usual "cap all merc camps and then map objective is up."
So I see him as good but not too much more difficult to deal with than any other hero would be. It's also why I think Abathur is the strongest Specialist, because it's harder to deal with his advantages than it is with the other Specialists.
Also, we should play together some time soon.
I mean at this point, I fear Gazlowe more for his early tower pushing ability from his turrets, especially when he has backup. It could also be that free Gazlowe week is filling my memories with easier Gazlowe's to deal with. I've seen very few groups of people really push well with Gazlowe's merc abilities instead of falling into the usual "cap all merc camps and then map objective is up."
So I see him as good but not too much more difficult to deal with than any other hero would be. It's also why I think Abathur is the strongest Specialist, because it's harder to deal with his advantages than it is with the other Specialists.
Also, we should play together some time soon.
Aww nutz, so Arthas and Muradin are horrible???
Arthas really deserves to be in his own tier lower than everything else.
KojiKnight
Member
I'd personally would have put Falstad as S, but everything else on your list I pretty much agree with... especially abathur. It's going to be a long week with him being F2P.
They can work, but you'll need to put in more effort or have some decent teamwork going. I haven't played either personally but I find them enjoyable even watching. Arthas especially can work well with any Hero with the Executioner talent (bonus damage on CC'd enemies) and has really good sustain with his Rune Tap talent (every third auto-attack gives him a heal).
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Nope. They are just ok.
Think like how Fuerte is C in SF4 but still can make a top 8 or 16 at a major.
EDIT:
Reading through some Blue posts recently.. looks like this stuff is in the works.
- Sgt Hammer getting some seige mode tweaks to make her more effective agst an enemy team
- Tyrande getting a better self heal or heal when she is by herself that will benefit her more and feel rewarding
- LiLi getting a tweak for a self heal as well (probably lower the talent at 7 to 4)
- Smart Casting/Quick Casting coming
- Abathur Symbiote XP bonuses
- Tyrael getting more options to interact with the enemy team and enemy.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Okay, so I've been in the alpha for a week now and I've played a couple of matches, and I have to say that although it's a very well done game and extremely polished, I'm just not enjoying it that much. It's the same feeling I have when I play Dota2: I like the concept and enjoy a leisurely match with AI opponents, but put me in with humans and I just suck so bad that I feel worthless in the match. I just don't find it fun dying so often and being unable to really accomplish anything.
I used to think it was the Dota2 mechanics that I hated, the last hit stuff and items and shopping and denying and all of that, I thought that was what I sucked at. But now, in HotS I see that it's just these competitive APM click fest games that I suck at overall, LOL. I think my reflexes are just too slow to be able to play these games at any kind of mediocre level. I know it's why I prefer to play SC2 in cooperative mode against the AI, I am a forever Bronze league player with human opponents.
But eh, it's free to play so I'll keep playing it now and then, but I think I just prefer multiplayer games like Diablo III and Hearthstone. Or Minecraft.
I used to think it was the Dota2 mechanics that I hated, the last hit stuff and items and shopping and denying and all of that, I thought that was what I sucked at. But now, in HotS I see that it's just these competitive APM click fest games that I suck at overall, LOL. I think my reflexes are just too slow to be able to play these games at any kind of mediocre level. I know it's why I prefer to play SC2 in cooperative mode against the AI, I am a forever Bronze league player with human opponents.
But eh, it's free to play so I'll keep playing it now and then, but I think I just prefer multiplayer games like Diablo III and Hearthstone. Or Minecraft.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Yeah - Sounds like you may not enjoy MOBAs in general. I didn't much either. But this one feels fun and rewarding when you get that win with a team or a nice comeback. I also love the characters and the universes in this game (all of the Blizz games)
http://www.heroesnexus.com/talent-calculator/12-kerrigan#sFrFQDPDtIKDvFMAA
That is what I usually go with. It benefits her melee attacks always refreshing her skills and cooldowns so she can constantly CC and pull people in.
http://www.heroesnexus.com/talent-calculator/12-kerrigan#sFDEUEPDtIKDvFMAA
This is another alternative for people that run away. Blood for Blood does a good chunk of dmg 15% and slows them and you can sprint with Maelstrom and catch up if they stun you to run away. (Or just pounce em to catch up after sprinting into distance). Blood for Blood is also nice because its a decent heal with her shields already.
What makes him so bad? That's really dissapointing to hear.
He has the same problem most Warriors have. They actually aren't good initiators, and they have a hard time dealing with focus fire. Barbarian/Sonya is in Tier B right now because her best build plays her like an Assassin and completely ignores one of her skills except in some cases of running away. Tyreal feels like he's more semi-support and otherwise kinda just there. Not completely useless and can definitely contribute but the things he does do aren't as necessary. Arthas has high sustain but his damage is really low and he can't actually initiate because his CC is mostly soft and has very short durations. He needs to wait for the other team to commit to an engagement and then not focus him down first.
Also, Li Li may actually be C Tier. She honestly just can't do much damage wise and Water Dragon feels like it's designed for Wombo Combo compositions. Because of this, she can't go toe to toe with anyone, even mercenary camps. She does bring her team a decent about of healing and sustain but works several times better on a team with one other support besides herself (and not just because she can't heal herself. I almost never take that talent even when I'm the sole support). She can surprisingly accomplish a lot as long as what you want from her isn't damage, and she gets a ton of useful extra active abilities (Shield Ally, Mule, Shrink Ray, Healing Totem, Clairvoyance, etc.) that you can pick and choose. I find myself picking talents based on enemy composition and map choice more than anything else, so I'm essentially making a different build for her each game. She can also solo lane for a bit early game as long as the other side only throws a melee character at you.
Tychus is probably C Tier as well. At the very least playing him well definitely takes your max attention, and if you aren't constantly knocking people in good directions with his grenade skill then you will die often. Not just consistently, but constantly, because the second you miss or accidentally knock someone towards you while running you're almost always dead. While he's great at clearing minions it's nigh impossible for him to hold a lane by himself early game.
Digression: What are everyone's map preferences? Mine are Dragon Shire > Haunted Mines > Cursed Hollow > Blackheart Bay.
Sure, assuming I don't get some kind of load bug every other game. My biggest issue with the loading screen is that unlike in SC2 you can't see if the problem is you or another player.
Edit: Don't forget to join the GAF channel using "/join GAF"
When were you thinking? I just started and got my invite last night so I can only do co-op vs the AI.
Battletag - Jrmint#1322
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Abathur?
He's symbiote dmg and jumping on bodies of others and using his poison mines. He is best at lane pushing and coming in for a save on a friend with his shield or a tower/fort with a shield but that is about it.
Many people rely on him being a helpful dps machine in 1on1 fights but I disagree. I think he is best at pushing lanes and soaking XP with locusts in lanes.
Abathur never engages foes directly. He's "not evolved for combat." So instead he supports his teammates with Symbiote while hiding in a bush or behind a tower. The way XP works in this game, you get credit whenever an enemy minion dies near your body. So you don't actually have to kill them yourself and just hide in a bush in a lane as the minion waves go back and forth. Easiest way to test; if an enemy minion dies near you and you don't see any XP pop up from its death, that means that you personally are too far away to get credit.
Abathur also gets XP for any minion that dies near where his Symbiote (Q) is. So at any time he can be hoovering XP from two lanes at once. He doesn't even need a friendly player for this as he can also latch onto towers and minions. Alternatively, if you have players in every lane your Symbiote causes any 1v1 to become a 1.5 v 1, which can often be the thing that barely saves an ally from death or forces a kill on an enemy.
His Toxic Mines (W) can also decimate a creep wave, so one favorite strategy is to lay one or two mines when two minion waves meet and then use Symbiote just before they explode to get the experience. Toxic Mines also grant vision once they finish their planting animation even if you place them in bushes. They can act as wards if all the lanes are full of friendly players already.
Abathur's Passive Locusts will naturally push a lane for you. It provides an extra body to a minion wave that will naturally cause that lane to push the enemy towers if left unattended. Most people like to take the extra health for that very reason. Although personally, I'm thinking that on certain maps (Haunted Mines mostly) it's better to take the range upgrade. The proper circumstance is rare though.
Abathur doesn't have a mount but his Burrow (Z) but instead has a map wide teleport that he can use to get anywhere his team has vision. This can be used in combination with Toxic Mines to even burrow straight into bushes. An Abathur player can easily place a Toxic Mine to double check to see if an area is clear (your first check should be the mini map), use Burrow to sneak over and Bribe a minion camp on the enemy's side of the map, then hit B to hearth back to base. This is actually one of the primary reasons Bribe was nerfed. Alternatively, if it's late into the game and it's too dangerous for you to get into a position for your Locusts to push a lane, you can temporarily teleport across the map once you see the enemy team pushing somewhere. There's also a talent that Abathur can take that will allow him to mass spawn three extra Locusts at the press of a button. So you Burrow to a bush, cause four Locusts to suddenly push up with a minion wave onto an enemy inner tower, then hearth out until the next cooldown. You can do this in between cooldowns of your Ult/Heroic ability.
Abathur's only Heroic Ability choice, Ultimate Evolution (R), clones a friendly player. Ten seconds after you clone that player you get access to their own Heroic Ability. So you know how most of these games are balanced under the idea that you can't have two of the same character on the same team? Yeah, you get to break that rule. When a team fight happens you get to copy the most imposing hero there (often an Assassin) and double their pressure on the enemy team. Best part? If your clone dies you don't die, so you can play a lot more aggressive without fear of death. Also to note, your body disappears into the clone when you use this ability, so if you think someone is about to kill you then you can clone a friendly and have a respite for a little while. Unless they're camping where you morphed from, of course.
Abathur's advantage comes from the fact that he can easily grab XP and push two lanes at once. While doing this the enemy team can't do anything about it other than push back harder. But this means that you can have an extra teammate or two free to either roam for gank opportunities or grab Merc Camps super early while the enemy team is stuck having to push back lanes more often than usual.
Abathur's disadvantage comes from the fact that your team is a man down much of the time, so they quite often need to group up more. Unfortunately, being a man down also means it's much harder to contest objectives. Your team needs to be sufficient and skilled enough to have the potential to beat the enemy team 4v5 or even 4.5v5 up until level 10. Because of this it's imperative that you get the XP ball rolling, get lanes pushed so that enemies need to split up and stay in lane or face consequences, and check your mini map often to quickly help out at any sign of engagement or small skirmish.
Abathur is often cited as the hero that allows for the most RTS skill to transfer over rather than MOBA/Hero Brawler skill. So good luck with that. Unless you want an actual talent build to work with I'll let you explore the character from there.
KojiKnight
Member
Think you meant friendly player there
ToyMachine228
Member
Has there been any word on when Blizzard will be allowing more players access? Getting antsy watching Twitch!
KojiKnight
Member
No word, but they have been constantly adding more people, sometimes on a daily basis. The thing is is it's a constant slow trickle versus their usual method of sending out masses of invites a couple times a month. I almost don't expect a closed beta at this point, I think when it gets to beta stage it'll likely be opened completely.
That said, they still aren't sending invites intentionally to anyone outside of the US.
Think you meant friendly player there
That's what happens when the first thing I do in the morning is type up a blog post. There were other minor typos between ally/friendly/enemy in there before too.
KojiKnight
Member
Never say never, we'll be getting a Warcraft 4 eventually... it's just, you know, going to be 5 years or so after we see Legacy of the Void (which will also likely be another year or two away).
Ohhhh wow thanks guys!!
I was just trying to fight with him like normal, but it seemed like he just did piddly melee damage along with those small mines. I got wrecked!
I didn't even know what symbiote was. Does it tell you any of this stuff in a Tutorial or something? How are new players supposed to play this guy lol
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Symbiote is a thing you cast on anything (your own minions, your own mercs after you capture them, your own heroes on your team etc)
They then get this little Black mini abathur on their head and it shows that you are on them. You get 3 new skills while you are on them and symbioting with them. One is a little pincer missle attack. Another is an AoE attack and another is a shield. You can help others or lane push with those skills
He's one of the most difficult characters to use because you have to constantly be hopping on people and laying mines everytime you hop off and those are off cool down. Mines can give you vision in places or hold people from gathering objectives. They are best with killing the lane enemies as they can wipe them out fairly well and have your own lane enemies come through and eat up ammo on towers. Abathur is a pretty good lane pusher and I've been using him more over the past day or so and been enjoying it.
Bribe is a skill some characters can get at level 1 as a talent choice. Everytime you kill an enemy creep you can earn 'Bribe Stacks'. They are show next to the mini map in a little money icon with a number overlayed on top. You can have a total of 50 stacks at a time. You can use 20 to bribe a mercenary at a mercenary camp (Siege Giant or Knight). So if you had 40 stacks, you could Bribe two Siege Giants (A full Giant Camp) in one swoop. But you can't do that for Knights. You can take two knights at most and then kill the rest. Bribe essentially is like an auto kill on the mercenaries and gives them to you as if you were taking the camp (you still have to sit in the circle after you bribe a full siege giant camp as if you killed them). You just click on your Bribe skill after you have 20 stacks and click on the mercenary and they will give up instantly.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
May as well try him agst some AI guys to get a feel first. He is the most difficult to use in the game atm.
So after playing next to several varying Tyreal players, and considering what I said about Tyreal before: "Tyreal feels like he's more semi-support and otherwise kinda just there. Not completely useless and can definitely contribute but the things he does do aren't as necessary," I'm going to upgrade my evaluation of him to B Tier. You won't lose fights because of a Tyreal, but you might not win them.
Edit: http://www.reddit.com//heroes_of_the_storm_viability_poll/
Edit: http://www.reddit.com//heroes_of_the_storm_viability_poll/
No guarantee, but any future wipes they do will have the money refunded to you as "Blizz bucks."
ah ok thx pal
Whelp, I'll give this a shot. I think Li Li is as good as anyone except Uther in the support category. Yes, she definitely has some weaknesses. For example, she can never ever be alone. As far as constant, sustained heals though, no one can touch her.
She heals for a good amount every 2 seconds. She can weave in W heals every cooldown to help burst heal on a single target, or heal herself starting at level 4. She gives a decent amount of mana with her heals, which is very helpful to assassin characters she is with. Her ranged attack slows 3 priority targets. Her W adds a decent amount of added damage to your DPSers attacks. She never, ever runs out of mana. Finally, her ult is seemingly always up (55/45s CD from time last one stops), and provides healing throughput that teams have a hard time dealing with.
She definitely encourages team fights, and grouping up. This makes her great for maps like the Raven Curse map, and the Pirate Ship map. She also can allow a team to siege a base indefinitely later on.
She definitely has a much better late game than an early game, and if you are looking for damage (I think Water Dragon for example is terrible) then you are going to be real sad. She also can be really boring to play (W is her only targeted spell). All that being said, she has carried me a long way through the levels.
I think in general though, Blizzard needs to tone back all the heals some, or start adding in abilities with Mortal Strike style debuffs. Especially Uther. Man, he can do it all.
She heals for a good amount every 2 seconds. She can weave in W heals every cooldown to help burst heal on a single target, or heal herself starting at level 4. She gives a decent amount of mana with her heals, which is very helpful to assassin characters she is with. Her ranged attack slows 3 priority targets. Her W adds a decent amount of added damage to your DPSers attacks. She never, ever runs out of mana. Finally, her ult is seemingly always up (55/45s CD from time last one stops), and provides healing throughput that teams have a hard time dealing with.
She definitely encourages team fights, and grouping up. This makes her great for maps like the Raven Curse map, and the Pirate Ship map. She also can allow a team to siege a base indefinitely later on.
She definitely has a much better late game than an early game, and if you are looking for damage (I think Water Dragon for example is terrible) then you are going to be real sad. She also can be really boring to play (W is her only targeted spell). All that being said, she has carried me a long way through the levels.
I think in general though, Blizzard needs to tone back all the heals some, or start adding in abilities with Mortal Strike style debuffs. Especially Uther. Man, he can do it all.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
LiLi can't heal herself consistently until Level 7 I believe as opposed to Level 4 that you mentioned.
Her Jugs Ult is great, short cooldown and tons of heals. I agree that she is one of the more consistent healers in the game. She is just really squishy and can't heal herself for much especially if you get caught alone as her self heal relies on her healing someone else.
She does have some serious mana issues early game but that alleviates around Lvl 7-10.
Her Jugs Ult is great, short cooldown and tons of heals. I agree that she is one of the more consistent healers in the game. She is just really squishy and can't heal herself for much especially if you get caught alone as her self heal relies on her healing someone else.
She does have some serious mana issues early game but that alleviates around Lvl 7-10.
You can heal yourself with her W at level 4. The cooldown is a little longer but it's more than enough to get you through early lane phase. You really shouldn't be the one taking the damage in those fights anyway. At level 7, you gain the ability to also heal yourself with Q and then it's much smoother sailing.
As you were saying though, she really can't do anything by herself. How many supports really should be off by their own though? I just don't feel like anyone impacts mid-late game team fights more than she does, and that's almost always what the game seems to come down to - big, drawn out team fights.
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