The term 'girl gamer'

Karkador said:
can we pleeeaaase not even go here with this



At the same time it says that guys must also be unkempt, cave-dwelling shower-skippers if they're true gamers. Like I said, it's just insulting to everyone.
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Yeah. I see that a lot too. The awkward nerd, the pasty basement troll or the like. I also see the CoD/Halo crowd sniffed at a lot here, as reminded by this thread, as being superficial gamers somehow because they predominantly like FPSs. All kinds of particulars to being a 'legit' gamer. :P


Tellaerin said:
I don't think that's it, though, honestly.

The intent of strips like that isn't to suggest that being a "real gamer" means not caring about your appearance. I think it's meant more to suggest an overall sense of superficiality on the part of the "girl gamers" in question - that loudly declaiming "Look at me! I'm a girl gamer!" like that is, like makeup and plunging necklines, a tack some women take to attract attention from members of the opposite (or same) sex. This isn't something that's limited to women, or to videogames, for that matter. It's the difference between the guy who's into something because he legitimately loves it, and the one who likes to play up how knowledgeable/skilled he is at something specifically because he thinks it'll help him with the ladies.
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I should have worded it more, looks/appearance are often used to discredit in this regard, which you seem to be supporting because you view it as a suggestion of superficiality on the part of female gamers. Taking care of your looks or presenting yourself in a way that makes you feel comfortable and attractive (especially if they're on live feeds) shouldn't somehow invalidate your credentials as a gamer. If it wasn't in a big part due to attractiveness or dressing/grooming a certain way, then these comics wouldn't always seem to be a split of sexy woman versus obviously disheveled woman. If they care about how they look, then surely they can't actually be into games for their own sake. They MUST be doing it just for attention! It creates this very simplistic view of all women in gaming that we run up against all the damn time, so you can imagine how frustrating it is to see those comics all the time, especially in topics like these.
 
Rubius said:
She would. iJustine jumped on video games because they are easy and have tons of viewers. She was obviously clueless on everything.

I really do not want to sound elitist, but unless your channel is "Learning to be a Gamer" and is you wanting to understand video games, do not start a let's play channel when you have no idea of anything.
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This is silly. Why is someone not allowed to play a popular game because it's popular?

Why do you get to put these restrictions on them?
 
Rubius said:
The term gamer gurl is somebody who want attention by playing games while she do not know anything about it. It would apply to guy too but Gamer boi sound weird.

I have no problem that she document that, 10 millions of channel were doing that back then, but I have no problem with the documentation. The fact that she do not know about WASD or anything, and creating a channel dedicated about a game that she never ever touched outside of seeing Minecraft videos is kind of my problem.
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lol, what is honestly the problem with that? just because someone hasn't played a PC game before or know what WASD is doesn't mean they're banned from ever trying.
 
Rubius said:
She would. iJustine jumped on video games because they are easy and have tons of viewers. She was obviously clueless on everything.

I really do not want to sound elitist, but unless your channel is "Learning to be a Gamer" and is you wanting to understand video games, do not start a let's play channel when you have no idea of anything.
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So she's like DarksydePhil. I don't see anyone accusing him of being a "fake gamer guy" who's only in it for the money/attention.
 
Considering the deluge of bigotry that NeoGAF's community regurgitates whenever we have a topic concerning including more female protagonists, or any other non-white, non-male, non-straight, non-cisgender minority experience in AAA games? Of course some feel compelled to stand up and be counted.

I don't play online games with any type of voice/text interaction with other players because people are often ignorant, offensive, and patronizing in their behavior when they realize they're playing with someone different, and even when they aren't. It's like hanging out with the biggest group of bigoted jerkasses with inferiority complexes. I play a ton of offline games, though, and I get annoyed when girl characters are unnecessarily sexualized, dumbed-down, made weak, and objectified.. when they're present at all. There's plenty of games that imply a world populated exclusively with white men. It wasn't until recently that Harvest Moon and Rune Factory started offering female characters, despite those series having huuuuuge, active female fanbases. You still can't find queer female stories in games, with very little exception. There are some female game designers, but it's nowhere proportional.

In short, despite females of all ages making up roughly half of gamers, games are still primarily designed by straight white men, for straight white men. And people give us shit for wanting to be visible and represented in 'hardcore' gaming? That is the height of privilege.
 
One issue is that the general internet/gaming community's idea of what a "girl gamer" is comes from adolescent sensibilities - e.g. super cute girl playing games in her underwear and knee high argyle socks. Extreme fantasies or stereotypes that leave little middle ground for "person who likes games" regardless of gender. Gaming has always skewed toward younger male crowds, and it's no surprise that people have to label someone a "girl gamer" in order to apparently acknowledge them, whether it's used in a welcoming or unwelcoming context.

Nobody uses terms like 'girl/boy moviegoer' or 'girl/boy book reader', after all.
 
charlequin said:
We prefer to maintain higher standards of discussion and behavior here. If someone sees a discussion about "girl gamers" and all they can think to say is "they're all attention whores," they're not contributing anything useful to the conversation, but they are making an unfair (and sexist) generalization. We have a number of women who've posted in this thread to share both the upsides and downsides of identifying their gender in online games, and dismissing anyone who falls down on one side of that as attention-starved and manipulative is incredibly disrespectful.
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Oh I completely agree that those comments were pretty ignorant. What I particularly cannot stand is when a title is used to gain attention. If a girl wants to game then that's fine, superb, more fellow gamers to enjoy. But to say "Hey guys! I'm a girl who plays video games!" just comes off as disingenuous instead of enjoying playing games because it's fun. It easily goes down the same path as geek girls and girls who cosplay for attention. When someones heart is in to what they do, then that's great but I just don't like it when methods are used for attention or monetary gain.
 
 
 
Rubius said:
The term gamer gurl is somebody who want attention by playing games while she do not know anything about it. It would apply to guy too but Gamer boi sound weird.

I have no problem that she document that, 10 millions of channel were doing that back then, but I have no problem with the documentation. The fact that she do not know about WASD or anything, and creating a channel dedicated about a game that she never ever touched outside of seeing Minecraft videos is kind of my problem.

It's like if I did a channel called "Wildstarboy" Booted Wildstar and started playing, then... well I dont like the game, what do I do now? My whole channel is about Wildstar and I do not like the game.

If she did that on a channel called whatever else, I would have less of a problem. But she jumped on the train and she did not do it because she liked it, but because of fame. That's my problem. It's like starting a book club when you do not like and never read a book, just because books are cool right now.
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But why? I really fail to see the problem with this. It sounds like she documented her experience with the game. If she didn't like the game, she could stop. If she liked it, she has a dedicated channel for it. Maybe she wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
 
 
HoFT013 said:
If I had sweet girl titties, I'd do it, too.
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4cWUFiV.jpg
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Like this?
 
Karkador said:
lol, what is honestly the problem with that? just because someone hasn't played a PC game before or know what WASD is doesn't mean they're banned from ever trying.
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They are far from being banned from trying. I want people to play video games. It's like showing your gramma how to work the DVD player. I have no problem with that. But I dont want my gramma to start doing tutorials about how to use a DVD player before she figured it out just because DVD Player Tutorials are popular. If you go and dedicate yourself to a unique video game, because it's popular, then at least try it for 2-3 minutes and see if you like it. And I mean, she have a Mac, so I was not expecting her to play a lot of PC games.
 
shadowkat said:
But why? I really fail to see the problem with this. It sounds like she documented her experience with the game. If she didn't like the game, she could stop. If she liked it, she has a dedicated channel for it. Maybe she wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
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Yeah, really. I was thinking about doing this with Dota 2, a game I've only dabbled in. Thank goodness this thread has shown me the error of my ways; I'll be sure to become one of the world's foremost Dota 2 authorities before sharing any of my experiences with the game.
 
Orayn said:
Yeah, but that's more generalized criticism of him being a whiny narcissist who's hilariously bad at video games. There are plenty of people like DSP out there, but there's no particular gendered insult that's consistently directed at them.
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If you want to insult somebody, you try not to insult yourself in the way. And since it's mostly guys who insult DSP, then yeah they wont call him a Gamerboi. It's like being a girl in Cheerleading and yelling to a girl that she cheerlead like a girl. Or being in baseball and that she batt like a girl. I'm sure there is a lot of girls who insulted DSP and called him a machist pig, even more when he make machist jokes all days.
 
DAREALGUMMY said:
What I particularly cannot stand is when a title is used to gain attention.
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What, exactly, is so terrible about this? Most of life is people using titles to get attention. Do you freak out when people have LinkedIn profiles or hand out business cards? Do you hate the whole concept of streaming in general, since it only exists for people to insert themselves as personalities into videos of games? You obviously don't have a problem with people using usernames and avatars to attract attention to themselves on a message board. What is so deeply offensive about someone attracting attention to themselves?
 
It seems as though most points have been covered here. I have no problem with people who want to call themselves 'girl gamers'. I wouldn't if I was a girl cus I think the term itself sounds odd (like it doesn't roll off the tongue), but there's nothing wrong with the label. However, a certain stereotype has arisen for better or worse, of the woman who uses her gender for hits on Twitch/Youtube, and this term has been attached to the stereotype. What people need to remember though, is that millions of women play games. And many stream themselves or do let's plays etc. The amount of these people that fit the aforementioned stereotype is an overwhelming minority. Also, I think it says more about the viewers than the streamer.

And the idea of the streamer being the appeal is not exclusive to women. I watch a ton of Dota related content, and a while back several pro players who stream did this thing when they would stream shirtless. One did it, and then several followed the fad. They got extra viewers for what was going on on the facecam. I don't think that's so different, even if the base appeal is not the same.

A much, much bigger problem is the way a female playing games is made into some kind of event. I've heard stories of fairly absurd things, like guys having their character follow around another when they found out a girl was playing it, to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment. That kind of behaviour is pathetic, frankly. But I've rambled enough.

Edit: Also, it's sad to hear what was said to you, Schala. I never caught you streaming but I bet it would be excellent considering how you tend to know games inside out.
 
Sai-kun said:
Ugh, all the shit I remember hearing when I played with you was terrible.
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And I just don't talk anymore because it ruins a night of just wanting to blow a bunch of stuff up. I don't particularly want to be reminded of my snatch, my obvious inferiority as a woman, my obligation to be in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant making sandwiches. Then people want to create a class of woman gamer that's okay to slander. Honestly, fuck that.
 
DAREALGUMMY said:
Oh I completely agree that those comments were pretty ignorant. What I particularly cannot stand is when a title is used to gain attention. If a girl wants to game then that's fine, superb, more fellow gamers to enjoy. But to say "Hey guys! I'm a girl who plays video games!" just comes off as disingenuous instead of enjoying playing games because it's fun. It easily goes down the same path as geek girls and girls who cosplay for attention. When someones heart is in to what they do, then that's great but I just don't like it when methods are used for attention or monetary gain.
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First of all, what's so terrible about wanting attention that you cannot stand it? Secondly, what about everyone who is giving them said attention? They just want attention back, right?
 
charlequin said:
What, exactly, is so terrible about this? Most of life is people using titles to get attention. Do you freak out when people have LinkedIn profiles or hand out business cards? Do you hate the whole concept of streaming in general, since it only exists for people to insert themselves as personalities into videos of games? You obviously don't have a problem with people using usernames and avatars to attract attention to themselves on a message board. What is so deeply offensive about someone attracting attention to themselves?
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Depends. Do you open a movie channel because you are an avid movie watcher, you're deeply interested into a random genre and you like to share your opinion about the thing (think James Rolfe and horror movies) or you're just someone who watched x movie and thought it was cool and bye?

The whole issue comes from the fact gaming is basically the only hobby where there's shaming shaming.
 
UnWeave said:
First of all, what's so terrible about wanting attention that you cannot stand it? Secondly, what about everyone who is giving them said attention? They just want attention back, right?
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I wouldn't necessarily say all the viewers want attention back. I just call them "losers"
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that almost everyone who points at a camera at themselves performing some kind of activity and uploads it on the Internet desires some form of attention for it and is not just doing it for the love of it.
 
shadowkat said:
But why? I really fail to see the problem with this. It sounds like she documented her experience with the game. If she didn't like the game, she could stop. If she liked it, she has a dedicated channel for it. Maybe she wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
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If I want to try a game, I boot the game and play it. I do not go on youtube, create a channel, set up a video set up, put my webcam over the game, edit stuff, and then post it on youtube. I might do that kind of stuff from time to time, yes, since I stream. But I know how to play games on every system out there, been gaming for over 20 years and do not create a channel every time I try a new game, just in case I like it.

She wanted the attention and the fame, and it worked. She is now Director of Fun at Mojang. Like I said many time, this is not something that I think about at all most days, but the discussion is about the term Gamer Gurl, and she would be the type of person who fit in the term. Somebody who start playing games and try to be famous by the sheer fact that she's a girl and she's playing video game.

Take Dodger for instance, she is trying Lucius for the first time. She play games because she enjoy them, been playing since her childhood and made a channel about all of video games. She would be a Girl Gamer, and not a Gamer Gurl. She actually addressed the issue when Ultraneko turned out to be a cash grab and a fake to grab donation money and run away.
 
Rubius said:
They are far from being banned from trying. I want people to play video games. It's like showing your gramma how to work the DVD player. I have no problem with that. But I dont want my gramma to start doing tutorials about how to use a DVD player before she figured it out just because DVD Player Tutorials are popular. If you go and dedicate yourself to a unique video game, because it's popular, then at least try it for 2-3 minutes and see if you like it. And I mean, she have a Mac, so I was not expecting her to play a lot of PC games.
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So all game videos should be entirely for educational purposes made by experts of the game?

Video games are entertainment. They are still entertaining whether someone is an expert showing you how to play, or someone is a goof who has no idea how to play and shows you their failures in spectacular ways. (I was actually considering doing videos like this myself since sometimes I can be hilariously inept with games).

Men can be new at something but play it up for comedy and they won't get nearly the amount of vitriol (nor the same KIND of vitriol) that a woman would get.
 
Rubius, why do you keep using that term and acting like it's a real thing after admitting that it's an artificial distinction created for the sole purpose of being insulting?

The infamous "rap cars" thread didn't have people defending their definition of "rap car" and arguing about what can and can't be considered one.
 
JustProgress said:
No one likes Kaceytron? She is an epic troll god who I'm sure rolls in ad revenue. I love her stream.
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That Brazzer's logo reference is hilarious.

Rubius said:
Well the gurl gamers are not girls who like gaming. They are in the same category as guys who play games because it's popular and not because they find them fun. Kinda like how Conan have a video game sketch all about how he do not know anything about video games.

The most obvious example is the girl called Minecraftchick. Now, what is "wrong" with Minecraftchick, who became an actual Mojang employee, as Director of Fun?
She used the name Minecraftchick on youtube, and her first video was her, trying to learn minecraft. She never had played the game before and all seem to point out that she jumped on the Minecraft hyped, not because she liked the game, but for the fame and popularity.

That's what I would call a gamer gurl. Somebody who start to play game not for the enjoyment, but only for the popularity that it will bring. A lot of guys started doing this too like Tobuscus or Smosh. It's more cash grabbing than anything else for people like that. I understand why they do it, but it do not make me feel great toward them anyway.
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But none of that had to do with her sex.

I don't even know why you have an issue with someone making a youtube account dedicated to learning a certain game, but it's cringe-worthy to consider a reference to her gender an appropriate insult when your issue is with something else. It's like calling a homosexual gamer a "gai guy" because s/he's an asshole.
Rubius said:
The term gamer gurl is somebody who want attention by playing games while she do not know anything about it. It would apply to guy too but Gamer boi sound weird.
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Yeah, I think you might have drank the kool-aid.
 
Paracelsus said:
Depends. Do you open a movie channel because you are an avid movie watcher, you're deeply interested into a random genre and you like to share your opinion about the thing (think James Rolfe and horror movies) or you're just someone who watched x movie and thought it was cool and bye?
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This is... how most people get into things? People start sci-fi book circles because they read Player of Games once and got excited, or start watching more films and reviewing them on Tumblr because Rashomon blew their mind, or sign up to take photography classes because someone sent them an Ansel Adams postcard. All of those things involve demanding attention and asking people to look at their ideas and work before it's fully developed, to help with the learning process. Again.... what's so terrible about that?

The whole issue comes from the fact gaming is basically the only hobby where there's shaming shaming.
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....wut.
 
faceless007 said:
I have a sneaking suspicion that almost everyone who points at a camera at themselves performing some kind of activity and uploads it on the Internet desires some form of attention for it and is not just doing it for the love of it.
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True, but that could be applied to a very large array of activities, like posting on internet forums.

KePoW said:
I wouldn't necessarily say all the viewers want attention back. I just call them "losers"
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Yes, I didn't mean that they necessarily all want attention back, but presumably some. And the point is that this is regarded as basically okay. You're calling them "losers", well fine, but IMO that still has fewer negative connotations that a blanket attention-seeking branding.
 
UnWeave said:
First of all, what's so terrible about wanting attention that you cannot stand it? Secondly, what about everyone who is giving them said attention? They just want attention back, right?
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Yeah, I find it bizarre that the complaint that someone on Twitch or YouTube -- two services designed from the ground up to turn attention to cash -- is that they're seeking attention. Well, duh. It's a broadcast medium wherein viewers determine cash flow. If they aren't seeking attention, they've misunderstood the nature of the enterprise.

Both on that level and on a personal level, seeking attention is a fundamental part of being human. Most people enjoy attention, particularly if that attention is positive. I suppose you can complain about the authenticity of it, but in a world where everything you wear has designer labels, people identify themselves by the media they consume, and the culture's entire language is permeated by pop culture references which are essentially advertisements for media back catalogues, it seems a bizarre fragment of an inauthentic world to get worked up over.
 
besada said:
Yeah, I find it bizarre that the complaint that someone on Twitch or YouTube -- two services designed from the ground up to turn attention to cash -- is that they're seeking attention. Well, duh.
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Also strange given the context where we're all posting on an internet message board, where literally the only activity it is possible to participate in is posting text and images in the hopes that someone will pay attention to you because of them.
 
Lissar said:
So all game videos should be entirely for educational purposes made by experts of the game?

Video games are entertainment. They are still entertaining whether someone is an expert showing you how to play, or someone is a goof who has no idea how to play and shows you their failures in spectacular ways. (I was actually considering doing videos like this myself since sometimes I can be hilariously inept with games).

Men can be new at something but play it up for comedy and they won't get nearly the amount of vitriol (nor the same KIND of vitriol) that a woman would get.
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Sure, but like I said, that's because we are on the internet and that gaming is a massive boy club. Just like how a girl getting in any boy club like army, police, firefighters, mechanic and ect will get insulted on her gender at the first mistake. But that's not my issue. I think you mistake me saying that a girl jumping on the minecraft train so hard that she create a whole channel and have to learn WASD and do not know anything about pc gaming is a gender problem. It's not.

If a guy go make the channel "Slenderboy" and do the same thing, with a camera covering a part of the game screen, and the first minutes is him trying to use the arrow keys, I would have the same problems.Both would be Gamer Gurls, even if one of them is male. It's like the term Bitch and Dick who can be applied to both genders even if they seem more to be toward only one.
 
My wife is a plays games, i didn't find out till after we had been together several months, when we were going through her old stuff before moving out, and i found hundreds of nes, snes, genesis and gb carts in boxes.

I really loathe the entire "gamer" tag, you either play games or you don't, how often, competitive or casual and things like gender don't matter at all.
 
Rubius said:
Both would be Gamer Gurls, even if one of them is male. It's like the term Bitch and Dick who can be applied to both genders even if they seem more to be toward only one.
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It's a little odd how specific you are about wanting to define and use what is inherently an immature, childish insult designed to separate people into others based on baseless assumptions.
 
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