No, but he knew what he was doing. He was taking retribution, which in this case was a completely evil act.
Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
- Thread starter tehbible
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I know it can be extremely frustrating to read hateful comments related to this incident but that is nothing, because politicization of this incident begins tomorrow as all the talk show hosts start their week. How apparently this is just another symptom of leftist culture where things are expected for free (this notion is already making rounds), how the shooter had progressive YT channels in his favorite list and so on.
We are obviously going to talk about gun confiscation, bad influence of video games and I would assume religion or lack of thereof will play a role as well.
Might want to consider a media blackout for a day or two.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BobqTALCIAA63sk.jpg
We are obviously going to talk about gun confiscation, bad influence of video games and I would assume religion or lack of thereof will play a role as well.
Might want to consider a media blackout for a day or two.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BobqTALCIAA63sk.jpg
There are plenty of people in this world who suffer horrific childhoods and are in a far worse state than this POS, who don't snap and commit murder.
This piece of shit used his shitty upbringing as an excuse to murder people. He deserves to be made fun of.
ref
Member
He deserved and needed help. This was preventable.
Stigma for mental illness is never going to go away with an attitude like that, man.
HerrPalomar
Neo Member
I just do not see any value in dehumanizing him. Under the right circumstances everybody could end up like him.
A few key differences:
Resources: Chris-chan has none, this kid has all of them.
Intelligence (not wisdom, intelligence): Chris-chan wouldn't have been able to pull this off if he tried. He's just too stupid.
General outlook on life: As pathetic as Chris-chan is, he seems to still have hope that things will turn around for him, and seems to believe there are people who find him very important (ironically, some people do). This kid seems to have had a complete downer outlook on life and felt the only way he could make himself important was to slaughter people.
Of course he "knew what he was doing" - as far as someone who is mentally ill is able to. In his twisted mind that was the right thing. What does that really mean though? A lot of people who commit crimes think they're doing the right thing.
By calling him "evil" and a "monster" people are not only giving him exactly the sort of legacy he wanted but also oversimplifying the cause of his actions.
teruterubozu
Member
"Piece of shit" is exactly what he thought about humanity too.
As some one with Asperger's, I can sort of see why he developed the toxic views he did.
I used to be a "nice guy". I used to think about how intelligent I was and how girls always seemed to go for the douchebags. I used to think that nice guys were just destined to finish last because all women were bitches.
Then it changed one day. I just looked back at every relationship I'd ever had and realised that they'd all failed because I was a cunt. Not because girls don't like "nice guys", but because I was as far from nice guy as possible. That was the point where I actually managed to start treating women like human beings. I think what the guy who did these shootings lacked more than anything was any sort of self awareness or ability to actually examine himself. If you're not willing to take a long hard look at yourself, it can be disturbingly easy to fall into the toxic mindset that his beliefs about women developed from.
I used to be a "nice guy". I used to think about how intelligent I was and how girls always seemed to go for the douchebags. I used to think that nice guys were just destined to finish last because all women were bitches.
Then it changed one day. I just looked back at every relationship I'd ever had and realised that they'd all failed because I was a cunt. Not because girls don't like "nice guys", but because I was as far from nice guy as possible. That was the point where I actually managed to start treating women like human beings. I think what the guy who did these shootings lacked more than anything was any sort of self awareness or ability to actually examine himself. If you're not willing to take a long hard look at yourself, it can be disturbingly easy to fall into the toxic mindset that his beliefs about women developed from.
He didn't snap. It was a slow build to this over several years, ending in a premeditated attack.
Also, he didn't murder all his peers.
I agree mostly. But the flip side is saying he didn't understand what he was doing and it is societies or the parents fault for failing him. I don't think that's true either.
Whitechocolatekrispies
Banned
It sure is nice to know if I ever went on a killing rampage, millions of people would remember me, talk about me and I'd be all over the news ...
/sarcasm
(yes I have a problem with people giving this dumbass so much attention, let them be forgotten immediately, talk about the victims about how they touched other peoples lives ... not the dumbass that killed them)
/sarcasm
(yes I have a problem with people giving this dumbass so much attention, let them be forgotten immediately, talk about the victims about how they touched other peoples lives ... not the dumbass that killed them)
Funny, that's what I think of the vast majority of humanity as well. But guess what, I don't go out and kill them.
teruterubozu
Member
Actually it's becoming so routine that it's getting to a point where nobody gives a shit anymore.
Guess we'll just have to take your word on it.
I'm not going to deny that looking through his rambling or crazy videos is interesting but ultimately I think it is possibly quite dangerous to make such a big deal of it. Obviously he's not going to be hurting anyone else now, but what do you think the next attention starved narcissist who sees this guys videos being watched by thousands of people and his "manifesto" being pored over is going to think? This is the same story we've seen over and over again, and it always plays out exactly the same because the killers always get what they want.
News coverage of these events should focus on the victims, not the murderers. Hours of coverage on CNN and even huge forum threads discussing their motives are likely what inspired these people to do what they did. Preferably they wouldn't even name the killers in the coverage.
He was mentally ill and that made him murder people, that's all the remembrance he needs or deserves.
News coverage of these events should focus on the victims, not the murderers. Hours of coverage on CNN and even huge forum threads discussing their motives are likely what inspired these people to do what they did. Preferably they wouldn't even name the killers in the coverage.
He was mentally ill and that made him murder people, that's all the remembrance he needs or deserves.
I Stalk Alone
Member
I thought it was one guy?
Eyewitnesses are very unreliable, particularly in situations like this.
Absolutely, I am not exactly sure why I made that link in my head outside of the warped world views they share.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Are you sure you aren't curious about his favorite Nintendo 64 games?
I think one of the largest contributers to this horrible story is that society puts far too much value on sex itself. People, especially young people see sex and some sort of goal that must be achieved and anyone who doesn't have it is either a complete failure, a creep or some kind of weirdo who just chooses not to believe that sex is as important as people make it out to be.
This guy was a headcase not because he didn't hax sex, he most likely would've ended up doing the same thing but for a different reason. I don't think it's the cause at all. Usually people who do this sort of thing find something to anger them and latch on to it to try and give justification for the senseless act they commit with their murder/suicide since he knew full well that he was either going tob be gunned down by armed police or kill himself.
If you look at Anders, he actively said he was expecting to be killed at the end of it so he said his goodbyes and whatever before he went out to start his killing spree. I realise it's a different situation but both of them had agendas fueled by society and both ended up doing similar things.
Now it's different with Anders, but this guy had easy access to guns and seemingly although his parents reported his strange behaviour nothing was done about it, so the blame lies entirely within both America's police and the American governments complete lack of regard for human life by allowing people to go out and buy guns legally.
This guy was a headcase not because he didn't hax sex, he most likely would've ended up doing the same thing but for a different reason. I don't think it's the cause at all. Usually people who do this sort of thing find something to anger them and latch on to it to try and give justification for the senseless act they commit with their murder/suicide since he knew full well that he was either going tob be gunned down by armed police or kill himself.
If you look at Anders, he actively said he was expecting to be killed at the end of it so he said his goodbyes and whatever before he went out to start his killing spree. I realise it's a different situation but both of them had agendas fueled by society and both ended up doing similar things.
Now it's different with Anders, but this guy had easy access to guns and seemingly although his parents reported his strange behaviour nothing was done about it, so the blame lies entirely within both America's police and the American governments complete lack of regard for human life by allowing people to go out and buy guns legally.
If you read his piece I guess it's because he felt that if he was superrich women would flock to him, in a way they didn't when he was "just" as wealthy as his peers.
Which is probably 90% as deluded as the rest of his thoughts in that document.
It's a sad mess. But I think we're already seeing plenty of people try to use this as bait to reinforce their own existing prejudices on all sides of the fence, rather than remembering that extremes tend to make bad lessons and that serial killers tend to be remarkably good at self justification and finding inspiration for their terrible crimes in any number of places.
Meh. I think western society has a weird doublethink about it, trying to constantly pretend sex is this bad thing to be hidden away gives it this value. But sex has a lot of value in a way because if you're a teenage boy you'll gnaw off your own arm for it. Not because of society but because of biology. If you want to go all free market about it, the only way to reduce the "value" of sex is to increase the supply, massively, and to make distribution of it easier and quicker, and to remove the concentrations of power and lack thereof where they exist.
i hate bees
Member
UK MSN, classy as always
puritan societies. In most parts of Europe sex is a healthy, beautiful thing.
ErasureAcer
Banned
I've been diagnosed with aspergers too but I think it's all a crock of shit. Don't even think about that diagnosis whatsoever unless someone brings it up...that's how much I don't care(because I don't have it). If I don't communicate to people it's because I hate people(just like the other guy said a few posts up, you can hate the world without committing murder or other crimes) or I have nothing to say or I know no one wants to hear what I have to say. With that said, I communicate just fine.
Yeah, this probably doesn't help the aspergers community with the killer being diagnosed as well. I think the whole diagnosis process is a load of bull...but far better than say psychiatric diagnostics. Aspergers people talk to you for 2 hours(at least in my case)...psychiatrists diagnose you in 15 seconds. Neither of which knows a damn thing about me...but yeah, 2 hours is better than 15 seconds.
Deviancy from social norms (such as sexual relationships between men and women) is met with fear because it is to many an unknown; something in which they have no insight, and are unable to relate to. That is why you see the hateful mindset being put on display in here, and that is also why people can end up like Elliot did.
I'm European. But I think while there are different nuances to it, it's hardly a solved problem here either.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I think we've got plenty of unhealthy cultural elements in most of Europe as well.
A lot fewer guns though.
MichaelFassbender
Member
Well, I finished the entire 141 page document.
What a deeply unsettling read. A life where everything material was handed to him. A life where his parents rarely said "no." Entitlement, anger, resentment, rebellion that was coddled and accepted. The parents seemed to just want him out of the way, not to deal with what was happening. And this the tragic result.
I suppose that's the sum. Dead innocents because of all these missteps piling up.
Remember: money can never buy happiness.
What a deeply unsettling read. A life where everything material was handed to him. A life where his parents rarely said "no." Entitlement, anger, resentment, rebellion that was coddled and accepted. The parents seemed to just want him out of the way, not to deal with what was happening. And this the tragic result.
I suppose that's the sum. Dead innocents because of all these missteps piling up.
Remember: money can never buy happiness.
If you read some of his quotes he was motivated by how much attention he would receive. The part where he's dead didn't really matter. The media glorifies these events and talks about them for weeks on end, just creating more potential killers.
Roger Ebert had this to say awhile back:
Dr. Park Dietz also agrees
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181702252120052
There will be a long list of things blamed before it gets back to the real first line of defense: good parenting.
I agree with first part, I'm a little conflicted on the last part.
While easy access to firearms contributed to the method of his madness, I don't think the blame can rest solely on that because the killers own complete disregard for human life would have had him finding other ways to do exactly what he did.
I think blame doesn't solve very much at the end of the day beyond giving us a target to release our own frustrations on. But if we're going to give credit where credit is due, I'd say the issue lies in a few areas, the killers upbringing, societies constant reinforcing of gender roles, hollywoods one dimensional handle on the subject of relationships, the handling & understanding of mental illness in society today...
This is an extreme case of entitlement of that comes from the (and I hate using this word) "nice guy" syndrome.
There is never one trigger that makes a killer what he/she is, its far too complex of a phenomenon.
TL;DR, the mass media are a joke and a scourge, but thanks to the internet, everyone knows that now.
MisterArrogant
Neo Member
I'm a psych student so I just spent several hours reading this guy's manifesto. You read about things like narcissistic personality disorder but until you get into someone's head like that a lot of the things seem really hard to believe that people can actually think like that. He's like a textbook case. Like everyone has mentioned, everything he says is so over the top that it almost seems like trolling it's so ridiculous.
It seems like he'd been seeing psychiatrists/therapists since he was like 13 as I recall. (God it was long.) Despite all the detail and minutiae of his life (including what DVDs he watched and video games he played), he pretty much glossed over any therapy he was receiving. He only made a few brief mentions of it here and there throughout all that so it's hard to know what was going on with his psychiatrists and the mental health work that was happening. He was definitely very focused on painting a vivid picture of his supposed persecution that he was trying to justify and minimize any questions as to his mental health. It sounds like near the end one of his psychiatrists prescribed anti-psychotics but he decided not to take them because he believed the doc didn't know what he was doing.
I think this really reinforces how difficult personality disorders are to treat due to how deeply engraved they are into a person's mental framework and their perspectives of the world. Also, he discussed with several friends his violent delusions that seemed to spring up around age 17. Some friends got weirded out and just started avoiding him. If you have a friend who seems like they're going off the deep end, don't just avoid them. Try to get them help. It's not clear whether his doctors or families knew about his violent fantasies.
It seems like he'd been seeing psychiatrists/therapists since he was like 13 as I recall. (God it was long.) Despite all the detail and minutiae of his life (including what DVDs he watched and video games he played), he pretty much glossed over any therapy he was receiving. He only made a few brief mentions of it here and there throughout all that so it's hard to know what was going on with his psychiatrists and the mental health work that was happening. He was definitely very focused on painting a vivid picture of his supposed persecution that he was trying to justify and minimize any questions as to his mental health. It sounds like near the end one of his psychiatrists prescribed anti-psychotics but he decided not to take them because he believed the doc didn't know what he was doing.
I think this really reinforces how difficult personality disorders are to treat due to how deeply engraved they are into a person's mental framework and their perspectives of the world. Also, he discussed with several friends his violent delusions that seemed to spring up around age 17. Some friends got weirded out and just started avoiding him. If you have a friend who seems like they're going off the deep end, don't just avoid them. Try to get them help. It's not clear whether his doctors or families knew about his violent fantasies.
PoemOfTheLastMoment
Banned
It's creepy how much this Roger Elliot guy tires to channel his inner 'Light Yagami'{If light was a complete fucking idiot} villain. I'm pretty sure he was aware of his campy monologue as he made his final video. I can only hope the families affected by this tragedy can find peace and get better soon.
Well, he did find other ways. He killed his first 3 victims with a knife.
I suppose a gun just makes it much easier though.
These "joke posts" are propaganda, full stop.
I would love to have seen their "Google+" names even if it meant violating my own privacy because I'm curious to know who these wing nuts are. I wonder if there are any facebook quotes like these.
I'm more disgusted with the amount of thumbs up various posts are getting. On so many other websites I can easily see these getting down voted to oblivion.
Youtube's moderation policies are clearly so bad that scumbags have a firm hold to say whatever shit they want that most people who think differently are staying away.
I feel sorry for you bro. Even without reading his manifesto in full or watching a single video I could tell that there was more to this than just women. But you are confirming that women was the one last check box that prevented him from feeling as if he reached the apex of his master position, bleh.
bigmit3737
Member
Having dealt with mental illness with most of my life , I feel really sorry for the guy.
He was suffering , and it seems his parents and close friends , didn't realize he was suffering or just didn't care .
I also wonder if the supplements he took also had an effect .
This guy really needed an positive role model.
He was suffering , and it seems his parents and close friends , didn't realize he was suffering or just didn't care .
I also wonder if the supplements he took also had an effect .
This guy really needed an positive role model.
MisterArrogant
Neo Member
It seems like his parents did try to get him psychiatric help throughout his life. They seemed at a loss as to how to help him and eventually just kind of seemed to give up and avoid him. His step-mother definitely seems like she could have been part of the problem. At one point she tells him his younger brother will be a success before him and lose his virginity before him. That was the main reason he decided to kill his brother despite the fact he actually seemed to like his younger brother. Not the kind of thing you should be telling an already mentally disturbed young man.
Also, being raised in an affluent environment really seemed to warp his sense of values. Definitely a contributing factor.
Exactly what I thought, wouldn't surprise me if he turned out to be obsessed with Death Note.
His talk about 'retribution', 'exacting vengeance', 'being a god'. Too much of a coincidence for it not to be true I think.
Was that her own son as in his step brother?
Charlie Brooker's Newswipe on coverage of mass shootings
Please don't take the deranged ramblings of a madman as fact. That almost 100% never happened, she probably just made some offhand comment complimenting the younger brother and he took it as an insult directed at him like he apparently took most things.
Please don't take the deranged ramblings of a madman as fact. That almost 100% never happened, she probably just made some offhand comment complimenting the younger brother and he took it as an insult directed at him like he apparently took most things.
Whitechocolatekrispies
Banned
Jesus I didn't think I could respect Roger Ebert anymore but you just proved me wrong.
MisterArrogant
Neo Member
Yeah.
That's entirely possible. I guess the point I was trying make was that when faced with mental illness, sometimes people will antagonize the individual rather than genuinely trying to help. It just makes the situation worse. However, it could have very well been another delusion on his part though. They seemed to have a history of antagonism but like you said, who knows what's true there.
BumblebeeCody
Member
I've said this before in the earlier posts that we should focus on the families rather than give him attention. It's now a 46 page thread on 'GAF
Sadly I wish I wasn't contributing to this specific problem. His actions need to be discussed so we can formulate how we can deal with this better at the individual level as well as the societal one.
At least we aren't blaming the victims here which has been far too prevalent in other incidents where the attacker wasn't acting like a deranged psycho with a manifesto and vblog for the world to scrutinize.
I feel bad for the 13 victims directly affected by him and I hope the survivors can move on. Considering the parents obviously did a lot to try to deal with this I hope they don't get too much blow back that they are viewed as pariahs everywhere they go. This murderer was young but he still was at the point to know better about what it means to kill people.
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