Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

Lord Phol said:
Disclaimer this is not directed towards you or every competitive smasher, just the disrespectful narrow minded idiots in the bunch. If you're not one of them then this is not directed towards you.

What I don't get it how people can be so upset and feel so entitled when a game doesn't turn out the way THEY want it to even if that's never been the focus of the game from that start. Smash has never tried to compete with the likes of street fighter, it's never been about final destination with no items only. It's the competitive community that's tried shaping it into that. I'm fine with people enjoying the game however they want but when they start acting all douchy and childish about it that's when I think they can just go fuck themselves.

I think Sakurai, Nintendo and the whole Smash team has been plenty nice to the competitive community with this game so far. There's no more tripping, it's faster, you got a whole mode made just for you guys with almost EVERY level having a final destination alternative. They invited some of the most respected people in smash competitive communty for a tournament and to listen to some of their feedback.

I just fricking annoys me how people can be so narrowed minded and entitled just because things aren't going the way THEY want it. Tough luck, play your Project M, melee or a real fighter if that is what you're looking for. Smash has never aimed to be that so I don't get how you can be so mad that it's not.

I've seen this behaviour in plenty of others thread not just smash or even video game related, it really fucking annoys me how people can be so egoistic and self entitled. And before everyone jumps my bone I'm not saying the game is perfect or can't be improved. I'm not saying the team can't take constructive feedback and make something good out of it. But I don't think it's fair to go all fucktard for brains mode just because it doesn't turn out they way YOU have imagined it.
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Maybe because competitive players play and continue to play far beyond the casuals who stop after a couple of months. They've been the ones supporting the scene so much for so long that it has led to Nintendo even holding these tournaments.
 
It's a crying shame that the Punch-Out Ring will probably be banned due to the walk-off and detachable spotlights. Bouncing off of the edges of the stage looks like it would be a really exciting gimmick.
 
guek said:
Always so negative
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Don't go there pls.

Otakumegane said:
Run jump and run crouch used to carry momentum?
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When you run in Melee and jump, your jump carries the momentum from the run just like in a platformer.

Running crouch is referring to where in Melee you can run and then when you hold down you crouch. This is important because from your crouch you can down tilt or down smash, or you can let go of crouching and switch to your standing position to have access to other attacks. A form of this is already in Brawl and Smash 4 (and was in both Smash 64 and Melee to begin with) where you can use your shield to stop your run but this isn't good enough of a option because you have to take time to put up your shield (remember, there might not be shield drop lag but there is shield start up). And in general run -> shield has different purposes from run -> crouch in Melee and Smash 64.

They are both options that should be in the game but aren't. They help to make the game more fluid for players. If you aren't or weren't aware of them then that only means they didn't effect you which isn't a bad thing at all. (Though I'm not sure how you couldn't have been aware of jumps retaining momentum from a run, to be honest other than the fact that is is a natural and expected result in any platformer so... you didn't notice it in Smash).
 
Super Sonic looked nerfed to me. Not nearly as much knockback, then again I've seen him like twice in this.

shadowstar said:
My buddy hit me with villagers FS and it didn't kill me at 150% as little Mac. There balance is really wonky. I see people gravitating towards characters already.
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Which characters?

BlackJace said:
Little Mac's ground game is crazy. Unstoppable in For Glory?
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A post on Melee It One Me had Little Mac as bottom tier.
 
I like the addition to DK's final smash even though I don't actually need it since I had the rhythm tied down.
 
SpinDasher said:
Super Sonic looked nerfed to me. Not nearly as much knockback, then again I've seen him like twice in this.



Which characters?



A post on Melee It One Me had Little Mac as bottom tier.
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Interesting. I wonder if that's because of the competitive community's emphasis on platform stages.
 
Revven said:
Don't go there pls.



When you run in Melee and jump, your jump carries the momentum from the run just like in a platformer.

Running crouch is referring to where in Melee you can run and then when you hold down you crouch. This is important because from your crouch you can down tilt or down smash, or you can let go of crouching and switch to your standing position to have access to other attacks. A form of this is already in Brawl and Smash 4 (and was in both Smash 64 and Melee to begin with) where you can use your shield to stop your run but this isn't good enough of a option because you have to take time to put up your shield (remember, there might not be shield drop lag but there is shield start up). And in general run -> shield has different purposes from run -> crouch in Melee and Smash 64.

They are both options that should be in the game but aren't. They help to make the game more fluid for players. If you aren't or weren't aware of them then that only means they didn't effect you which isn't a bad thing at all. (Though I'm not sure how you couldn't have been aware of jumps retaining momentum from a run, to be honest other than the fact that is is a natural and expected result in any platformer so... you didn't notice it in Smash).
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Someone mentioned something about pivot canceling a dash to go into a jab/smash/throw, do you think that's a workable replacement for run->crouch? Certainly not as instantaneous but something to provide some variety and strategy in its place maybe.
 
SpinDasher said:
Super Sonic looked nerfed to me. Not nearly as much knockback, then again I've seen him like twice in this.



Which characters?



A post on Melee It One Me had Little Mac as bottom tier.
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I don't know about the FS, but at least Sonic's normal/special moves seem a lot better with much better knockback so that he can actually KO now.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Mac's disadvantage is any non-walkoff stage. If he has to be in the air, he'll probably not make it back well. But he has a bigger advantages in stages like the Punch-Out arena or the Fire Emblem coliseum.
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I get Mac not being a great air fighter, but it seems unfair for him to not at least have something in the way of horizontal movement for recovery purposes.
 
How was the netcode for Melee? I want to purchase a Wii U for this game, but I am concerned with how it will play online. Is there any news on how it will perform? If it is anything like Mario Kart, then my worries are no more.
 
GiantBreadbug said:
I get Mac not being a great air fighter, but it seems unfair for him to not at least have something in the way of horizontal movement for recovery purposes.
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His side-B can be used in the air to recovery if I remember correctly.

markedbravado said:
How was the netcode for Melee? I want to purchase a Wii U for this game, but I am concerned with how it will play online. Is there any news on how it will perform? If it is anything like Mario Kart, then my worries are no more.
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They have put some emphasis on the online this time around, especially saying that Brawl was pretty bad and that this time it will be better. I think most people would be willing to bet that it'll be rock solid for the most part.
 
shadowstar said:
My buddy hit me with villagers FS and it didn't kill me at 150% as little Mac. There balance is really wonky. I see people gravitating towards characters already.
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I can also vouch for this, could barely kill the two characters I did with Villagers FS and they were at 124% around there. I DID kill them, but barely.
 
R0ckman said:
I can also vouch for this, could barely kill the two characters I did with Villagers FS and they were at 124% around there. I DID kill them, but barely.
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His and Rosa's FS def. need to be buffed. I didn't play the game yet (yay Yurop) but from all I've seen Villager's FS is ATROCIOUS.
 
k_Reign said:
They have put some emphasis on the online this time around, especially saying that Brawl was pretty bad and that this time it will be better. I think most people would be willing to bet that it'll be rock solid for the most part.
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Thanks. Will purchase the wii u when this game comes out.
 
GiantBreadbug said:
I haven't seen it used in the air but I was wondering if that could be used for recovery. Hopefully I can catch some of that happening.
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I could swear I saw Jolt Haymaker being used in the Invitational. Little Mac travels horizontal about half the distance compared to using it on the ground. But it doesn't put you in the helplessness state.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Mac's disadvantage is any non-walkoff stage. If he has to be in the air, he'll probably not make it back well. But he has a bigger advantages in stages like the Punch-Out arena or the Fire Emblem coliseum.
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Yeah, that's what its looking like. Damn, I need to get to a Best Buy...

Tan said:
Or that he's horrible in the air and his attacks have a lot of recovery so as long as you have a shield up he can't do much against you.
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Well, yeah, that's what I mean by stages with platforms will force him to enter aerial combat, which is obviously his weakness.

His attack recovery is also a problem too, definitely.
 
ratcliffja said:
I don't know about the FS, but at least Sonic's normal/special moves seem a lot better with much better knockback so that he can actually KO now.
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He most definitely does. His forward tilt can KO now, and his dash attack is better.

The homing attack also comes out faster and has more knockback as well. Looking good so far.

markedbravado said:
How was the netcode for Melee? I want to purchase a Wii U for this game, but I am concerned with how it will play online. Is there any news on how it will perform? If it is anything like Mario Kart, then my worries are no more.
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Melee had no online. You probably mean Brawl, it was pretty bad, I only had a few matches that were smooth.
 
Lord Phol said:
Disclaimer this is not directed towards you or every competitive smasher, just the disrespectful narrow minded idiots in the bunch. If you're not one of them then this is not directed towards you.

What I don't get it how people can be so upset and feel so entitled when a game doesn't turn out the way THEY want it to even if that's never been the focus of the game from that start. Smash has never tried to compete with the likes of street fighter, it's never been about final destination with no items only. It's the competitive community that's tried shaping it into that. I'm fine with people enjoying the game however they want but when they start acting all douchy and childish about it that's when I think they can just go fuck themselves.

I think Sakurai, Nintendo and the whole Smash team has been plenty nice to the competitive community with this game so far. There's no more tripping, it's faster, you got a whole mode made just for you guys with almost EVERY level having a final destination alternative. They invited some of the most respected people in smash competitive communty for a tournament and to listen to some of their feedback.

I just fricking annoys me how people can be so narrowed minded and entitled just because things aren't going the way THEY want it. Tough luck, play your Project M, melee or a real fighter if that is what you're looking for. Smash has never aimed to be that so I don't get how you can be so mad that it's not.

I've seen this behaviour in plenty of others thread not just smash or even video game related, it really fucking annoys me how people can be so egoistic and self entitled. And before everyone jumps my bone I'm not saying the game is perfect or can't be improved. I'm not saying the team can't take constructive feedback and make something good out of it. But I don't think it's fair to go all fucktard for brains mode just because it doesn't turn out they way YOU have imagined it.
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I'm always curious why people assume competitive smash is all about final destination as a map choice. Final destination isn't even a balanced map for everybody lol
 
shadowstar said:
Oh and fuuuuuuuck the mega man level. God damn that yellow cyclops.
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Yeah, watching that during the Invitational was the worst. I had thought that, as a stage boss, YD would appear once per match and perhaps hang around until you kill him, but he's coming and going about once per minute. I hope the rest of the stage bosses aren't that obtrusive.
 
The fact that the changes in jump momentum and landing lag affects one of the fundamental ways we play Smash competitively excites me greatly. One aspect I always love about each new iteration of Smash is how each game feels different from the next. All of them keep the fundamental features that make them Smash Bros. but they change a bunch of technical details that force us to approach each game in a different way. It sounds like Smash 4 is continuing this tradition, but is now making a change that affects a core aspect. That sounds very interesting and exciting.

I hear a lot of people mentioning how certain changes will 'improve' the game, but I think they're approaching it from the wrong point of view. It seems more like they're trying to deprive Smash 4 from having its own identity and instead trying to make it more like a past iteration (Melee as usual). It's less about improving the game and more about stopping it from changing and I can't agree with that. I prefer when fighting games strive to be their own game while keeping features that are fundamental in making the game what it is. (Street fighter 3 to Street Fighter 4)

Now I'm not saying that Smash should be devoid of criticism nor am I saying the new changes are good. I just think it's way too early to write off the game or say certain changes are bad just because they are different. It's best to wait on how the changes and additions will affect the overall meta-game and play style of Smash 4. In terms of gameplay, I've always enjoyed Melee the most, but I would never want a sequel to that or a new game that tries to replicate it. I want a new Smash Bros. Smash 4 deserves to have its own identity just like Melee.
 
Rynocirator said:
I wouldn't say impossible, just the netplay in brawl kinda made it difficult at times to sync up with the music
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Yeah, the beat was really simple to get down in Brawl. Online less so because of the godawful input lag at times, but at least the guide will help out people who were awful with it before.
 
I'm sure I could put project m in the hands of a bunch of causals and they wouldn't even know the difference because they'd just spam pokeballs and assist trophies or whatever other items.

I would also like to point out how much of a mess brawl was, and I won't even mention anything about the actual player vs player.

1. Realistic art style on Wii for all the fighters was a really bad idea
2. Classic Mode feels gimped and uninspired
3. Break the targets is no longer character specific and doesn't challenge individual character skills as much
4. SSE rarely feels inspired.
5. Masterpieces were unnecessary bloat, along with the unnecessary game release timeline
6. Stage designs are unfocused (New Pork, Electroplankton) or recreations of old games that don't mesh well with smash gameplay (Mario Bros and 75m)
7. Some palette swaps are bad, Snakes/Olimar blue is hardly different than normal. All of Sonic and Lucario's palette swaps are shades of blue. Makes it harder to tell teams/players apart.
8. The brawl theme is literally everywhere in a soundtrack that would otherwise be fantastic. Gets grating with extended plays.
9. Transformations are notably slower (especially Zelda to Sheik when compared to Melee).
10. Random tripping, random trip percentages on moves, randomly having moves take more frames when the game feels like it.
 
Layell said:
7. Some palette swaps are bad, Snakes/Olimar blue is hardly different than normal. All of Sonic and Lucario's palette swaps are shades of blue. Makes it harder to tell teams/players apart.
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That's out of Sakurai's control. Blame Konami/Sega/Pokémon Company.
 
Azure J said:
DLC lists?

0. Mike Jones from StarTropics
1. Takamaru from The Mysterious Murasame Castle (if he's currently not in the main roster)/ Lip from Panel de Pon

...

To be honest, with these three I'll pretty much be done with roster desires forever.
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Captain Syrup, plz Nintendo
Takamaru
Ray MK
Ridley
Lucina

I hope this game gets DLC. I know we've been through it many times but it would be nice.

Loco4Coco said:
They just had a match on the treehouse stream where Villager's FS didn't KO Samus at 164% damage.
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Yea I saw that. Bowser was also able to survive to 211 at one point in the matches.
 
Layell said:
5. Masterpieces were unnecessary bloat, along with the unnecessary game release timeline
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I'm not really sure why this is a criticism since it doesn't really detract anything from the experience. You might not ever use it more than once but it's not symptomatic or a cause of any of Brawl's greater issues.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Mac's disadvantage is any non-walkoff stage. If he has to be in the air, he'll probably not make it back well. But he has a bigger advantages in stages like the Punch-Out arena or the Fire Emblem coliseum.
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Is he even good at camping the blast zones on a walk off stage?
 
Yeah if you get pilot wings or the mega man level where little Mac can't move around the center he is really bad. Levels that change elevation a lot are so annoying. His air game is non existent.
 
shadowstar said:
Maybe because competitive players play and continue to play far beyond the casuals who stop after a couple of months. They've been the ones supporting the scene so much for so long that it has led to Nintendo even holding these tournaments.
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That could be said for most games. There will always be those that take games to another level (like that guy who's played insane amounts of Bubsy, or speedrunners), but it doesn't mean that they are the main audience. I could go crazy hardcore for Mario Party 10 with a bunch of other people. Trying to make it into something competitive and after making up rules and finding out new ways to play the game, creating something mildly competitive. But I would never expect or get mad that Mario Party 11 didn't deliver that compeitive balanced gameplay that I and bunch of other people made Mario Party 10 into.

You kind of make it sound like (apologies if that's not what you meant) that being more hardcore gives you a better perspective on how the game should be designed. What it comes down to is that Smash has always been more of a party game than a competitive fighter. That's how Sakurai and team wants it to be and that's the game they are creating. They do however try to cater to that hardcore Final Destination fanbase as well but it's never been the focus.

I'm not against making smash into something that can be both fun and competitive, I just got my expectations on a level that fits with the design of the games.
 
GamerSoul said:
Captain Syrup, plz Nintendo
Takamaru
Ray MK
Ridley
Lucina

I hope this game gets DLC. I know we've been through it many times but it would be nice.



Yea I saw that. Bowser was also able to survive to 211 at one point in the matches.
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Oh wow, I totally forgot about Captain Syrup. :lol
 
Box arts revealed. Smash if old.

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