Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

Church RvB said:
What about those of us who LOVE the light arrows? Its a really good FS and I'm glad its still in.
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It's a good FS for Zelda or Sheik. Both don't need it. Feels kinda shitty making a big deal out of separating them but making their FSes the same.

Maybe Sheik should keep it. I don't really care either way as long as one of them get a new one.
 
Did anyone see one character got hit by Donkey Kong's Aerial forward attack and character were send toward to the ground then bounced off the ground to death.

I'm not sure if I'm being crazy if I saw that.
 
Genesect pokeball!

IntelliHeath said:
Did anyone see one character got hit by Donkey Kong's Aerial forward attack and character were send toward to the ground then bounced off the ground to death.

I'm not sure if I'm being crazy if I saw that.
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Meteor smashes cause enemies to now bounce off the ground
 
GiantBreadbug said:
It's a good FS for Zelda or Sheik. Both don't need it. Feels kinda shitty making a big deal out of separating them but making their FSes the same.

Maybe Sheik should keep it. I don't really care either way as long as one of them get a new one.
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Opinions I guess. Do you play Sheik a lot? Sheik is my top 1 or 2. I don't want her getting a new FS like Rosalinas thats a 'minor annoyance'. I've said this more than once already but light arrows are amazing. Ranged, powerful, used in air/on ground.

Edit for your edit: I think its fairly obvious that another reason for separating characters is the customization. Both Sheik and Zelda will have three down specials to choose from. If they were a shared character they would be shafted in a bigger way then they already have been in previous titles. So its actually a pretty big deal to separate them assuming the customizations actually become important within Smash.

ShockingAlberto said:
It's funny

You compare this playthrough to Ubisoft's fake-dialogue trailers for The Division and Rainbow Six

These guys are making jokes, enjoying themselves, talking about the game

I loved

"Nice of you to pick the stage that's best for you, Nate"
"Yeah, it's weird how that happened, huh"
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They're well acted and when The Division revealed last year at E3 '13 no one knew what the game was or if the voices were NPCs or real people. It was a great way to reveal the type of game. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
 
Short gif of DK's improved final smash (UI-wise)

iKsL2IEcSMAwc.gif
 
The one positive thing I like about Smash 4 so far is the design choices for characters in terms of their move sets. They look like they are built to be used for competitive play, to me anyway. It's just sad that there's such limited movement options (mainly what I've already mentioned: run -> crouch and jumps retaining momentum from your run and of course the high amount of landing lag for some aerial moves).
 
Church RvB said:
They're well acted and when The Division revealed last year at E3 '13 no one knew what the game was or if the voices were NPCs or real people. It was a great way to reveal the type of game. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
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I had a whole response typed out but

just

I don't agree and think you are misremembering how people reacted
 
I know this is still a demo and they are working on the game, but going through footage, damn are some things not making sense.

Watched a match where Mega Man used a grounded counter (recovering from collaspe through an attack). KO'd Greninja at 104% and gave Kirby a shit ton of knock back at 59%, I wasn't able to KO Kirby at 60% with a fully charged close up Bowling Ball with Villager. The balance is just all fucked up.
 
Revven said:
The one positive thing I like about Smash 4 so far is the design choices for characters in terms of their move sets. They look like they are built to be used for competitive play, to me anyway. It's just sad that there's such limited movement options (mainly what I've already mentioned: run -> crouch and jumps retaining momentum from your run and of course the high amount of landing lag for some aerial moves).
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I think this is what's annoying a lot of people, it's so fucking close to being great, just needs those better movement options and I'd have no worries about it whatsoever.
 
Revven said:
Stop saying this, please, for the love of God. >_<

They *can* be satisfied.

I will just freaking quote my post I made earlier.



That is *all* it takes to make everyone happy. I am serious. Those things are important to have and would make the game play better for you, too.

Edit: An example of a comp. Melee player who went to E3 and had hands-on time with the game: https://twitter.com/tafokints/status/477147732763627520

He feels the *exact* same way as I described above. They can be satisfied.
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excellent post. more people should read this.
 
Church RvB said:
Opinions I guess. Do you play Sheik a lot? Sheik is my top 1 or 2. I don't want her getting a new FS like Rosalinas thats a 'minor annoyance'. I've said this more than once already but light arrows are amazing. Ranged, powerful, used in air/on ground.
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I play Sheik some, and the more it think about it the more it makes sense for her to keep them. But I'd love for Zelda to get a new one. Maybe she should channel the Goddess Hylia or something. I just am not at all a can of clone FSes.
 
Bowser has some crazy long landing lag after a Bowser Bomb. I thought it'd have been improved by a buff but after Samus survived one in high percentages yesterday this move seems really nerfed.
 
R0ckman said:
I know this is still a demo and they are working on the game, but going through footage, damn are some things not making sense.

Watched a match where Mega Man used a grounded counter (recovering from collaspe through an attack). KO'd Greninja at 104% and gave Kirby a shit ton of knock back at 59%, I wasn't able to KO Kirby at 60% with a fully charged close up Bowling Ball with Villager. The balance is just all fucked up.
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I wouldn't look too much into it.

I wonder how far back this demo was put together.
 
Revven said:
This is the kind of shit that's toxic. Stop it, you're not being any better than the people who are being overreactionary.

Look, let me explain this again: it has nothing to do with making the game like Melee. Melee is just the closest, no, the pinnacle example of a competitive game in the Smash series. People compare to it because they really don't know what to describe in it that makes it so good for competition. They just use it as an example because it's quick and easy. Oh and I should clarify, by they I mean the low-mid level players that are shitposting on smashboards and r/smashbros. The people who actually compete at tournaments could describe it very easily, describe what they'd want out of Smash 4 without using the word 'Melee'.

Let me tell you what makes Melee competitive: movement options out the wazoo. Your dash/run can be stopped by crouching, this gives you access to both your down smash and down tilt as approach options. From a crouch, you could then switch to standing instead and use a different tilt or even a different smash attack. That is just one example of the kind of movement option that makes Melee what it is. And that, again, is not even wavedashing. It is an intuitive option that even a casual player can benefit from knowing, just as much as a casual player benefits from being able to shield the end of their run to gain access to their grounded moves.

And I guarantee you that run -> crouch was intentionally programmed in Melee, just like run -> shield works in all the games. It's something you can do out of your run just like you can do an Usmash out of your run with the C-stick. It doesn't hurt casual players at all to have this option in the game yet Sakurai took it out.

All people want are intuitive, non-glitch, movement options. And an ability to use those options to expand the game at a higher level -- whether that's through combos, mind games, etc etc. That is seriously it. And if you somehow have qualms with people being able to crouch out of their run, you have some serious issues on this.

Again, that is just one example of a movement option. Another example that wouldn't hurt casual players is one that exists in all platformers: momentum being carried from your run into your jump. What that does is it allows characters with faster running speeds to leap across the stage to approach a character. What happens right now in Brawl and seemingly Smash 4 is this momentum is not carried and therefore your character essentially is awkwardly moving in the air as if they just jumped from a standing position. It is logical physics, as well, because when you run in any platformer (hell, even Mario games) you carry the momentum from your jump. It was amazing to have this in Melee and not just because it was in Melee but because every character could make use of it and it helped them in various ways to put up an offense on someone.

But it seems to be absent from Smash 4, again. Taking that particular option out only hurts characters that have speed built-in with them in mind such as Captain Falcon, Fox, Sonic, etc etc. You might say that's a good thing but again look at how Captain Falcon was in Brawl. He was terrible. A large part of that was because of the lack of this option existing in Brawl. Secondly, it might appear good because it makes the fast characters on the same playing field as the slower characters but in actuality the slower characters could make use of it this just as much. Characters like Mario, DK, and even Ganondorf had really good approach options just from this physics-related option that was in the game. And you can even see how they benefit from this in Project M, as PM re-added it.

If you have zero understanding of what makes competitive Smash, you shouldn't shit on people who do. There are definitely people who are overreacting and expressing themselves on gut reactions because they really don't want a game that will likely not advance the community forward. People want to like and play this game seriously but they can't if the game doesn't offer these kinds of options and from what people played and saw, the options aren't there. It's frustrating to, once again, not get heard from the developer of the series you love. You think after all these years, with so much tournament footage available on Youtube, they would have an understanding of what the competitive players are looking for: intuitive movement options.

I hope this post has been enlightening to some degree because man, I am so tired of posts like the above. It is not healthy for the entire community whatsoever. If you have nothing good to say, don't say it at all.
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I'm enjoying this game because it's fun enough as a game right now, but this is spot on. It's vary frustrating sometimes. Especially the dashing stuff which is why I like little Mac. At least his dash attack is great in the 4 player set up they have.
 
JoeInky said:
I wish people would fuck off with this shit.

Hardcore smash fans don't just want melee, we don't want the game to become some insular thing that can only be appreciated by high level players either.

We just want the game to be good, we want it to be exciting both to play and watch, competitively or casually. We want people to recognise just how fucking great this game can be and give it the more mainstream attention it deserves as a competitive game.

I've been hyped as fuck for the future of smash ever since EVO 2013, we've been getting in the spotlight again and with the amount of viewers we got, it's definitely something people want to see.
Smash 4 in my mind was going to be a massive rejuvenation of the scene, nintendo hosting an actual fucking tournament, inviting top players to show off the game to the fans.

I was so ready to spend the next few weeks trying to dissect as much information about how the game plays as I could from the tournament and all the offscreen gameplay, but what we were shown was a disappointment and I hope it isn't representative of the final product.


People like you, that throw the entire smash competitive community into the trash because a few people are overly abrasive about the mechanics of the game when you probably don't even understand why they are upset are the worst.
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Disclaimer this is not directed towards you or every competitive smasher, just the disrespectful narrow minded idiots in the bunch. If you're not one of them then this is not directed towards you.

What I don't get it how people can be so upset and feel so entitled when a game doesn't turn out the way THEY want it to even if that's never been the focus of the game from that start. Smash has never tried to compete with the likes of street fighter, it's never been about final destination with no items only. It's the competitive community that's tried shaping it into that. I'm fine with people enjoying the game however they want but when they start acting all douchy and childish about it that's when I think they can just go fuck themselves.

I think Sakurai, Nintendo and the whole Smash team has been plenty nice to the competitive community with this game so far. There's no more tripping, it's faster, you got a whole mode made just for you guys with almost EVERY level having a final destination alternative. They invited some of the most respected people in smash competitive communty for a tournament and to listen to some of their feedback.

I just fricking annoys me how people can be so narrowed minded and entitled just because things aren't going the way THEY want it. Tough luck, play your Project M, melee or a real fighter if that is what you're looking for. Smash has never aimed to be that so I don't get how you can be so mad that it's not.

I've seen this behaviour in plenty of others thread not just smash or even video game related, it really fucking annoys me how people can be so egoistic and self entitled. And before everyone jumps my bone I'm not saying the game is perfect or can't be improved. I'm not saying the team can't take constructive feedback and make something good out of it. But I don't think it's fair to go all fucktard for brains mode just because it doesn't turn out they way YOU have imagined it.
 
Revven said:
The one positive thing I like about Smash 4 so far is the design choices for characters in terms of their move sets. They look like they are built to be used for competitive play, to me anyway. It's just sad that there's such limited movement options (mainly what I've already mentioned: run -> crouch and jumps retaining momentum from your run and of course the high amount of landing lag for some aerial moves).
Click to expand...
Always so negative
 
NotLiquid said:
Bowser has some crazy long landing lag after a Bowser Bomb. I thought it'd have been improved by a buff but after Samus survived one in high percentages yesterday this move seems really nerfed.
Click to expand...

R0ckman said:
I know this is still a demo and they are working on the game, but going through footage, damn are some things not making sense.

Watched a match where Mega Man used a grounded counter (recovering from collaspe through an attack). KO'd Greninja at 104% and gave Kirby a shit ton of knock back at 59%, I wasn't able to KO Kirby at 60% with a fully charged close up Bowling Ball with Villager. The balance is just all fucked up.
Click to expand...

Stale moves negation is likely what's going on here for both of these things. Remember in Brawl that using a move even once reduces its knockback significantly. I wouldn't be surprised if they barely changed this in Smash 4. It's a shitty mechanic, stale moves should only happen for damage (meaning attacks should only weaken in damage, not knockback, after one or more use)

Hyperactivity said:
Not sure if this was there before, but ZSS's neutral b charges now
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Been able to do that since Brawl. :P
 
R0ckman said:
I know this is still a demo and they are working on the game, but going through footage, damn are some things not making sense.

Watched a match where Mega Man used a grounded counter (recovering from collaspe through an attack). KO'd Greninja at 104% and gave Kirby a shit ton of knock back at 59%, I wasn't able to KO Kirby at 60% with a fully charged close up Bowling Ball with Villager. The balance is just all fucked up.
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My buddy hit me with villagers FS and it didn't kill me at 150% as little Mac. There balance is really wonky. I see people gravitating towards characters already.
 
So Final Smashes for all the confirmed characters we've got:

Mario - Mario Finale
Luigi - Poltergust 5000 (unconfirmed name)
Peach - unknown
Bowser - Giga Bowser
Rosalina - Power Star (aka Smash of Minor Annoyance)

Yoshi - Super Dragon

Donkey Kong - Konga Beat
Diddy Kong - unknown

Pit - Three Sacred Treasures
Palutena - Black Hole/Mega Laser (unconfirmed name)

Fox - Landmaster

Pikachu - Volt Tackle
Lucario - unconfirmed, likely Mega Evolution: Mega Lucario
Greninja - Night Slash (unconfirmed name)
Charizard - Mega Evolution: Mega Charizard X (unconfirmed name)

Link - Triforce Slash
Toon Link - Triforce Slash
Zelda - Light Arrow
Shiek - Light Arrow

Villager - Dream Home

Kirby - Ultra Sword
King Dedede - unknown

Samus - Zero Laser
Zero Suit Samus - Gunship Strike (unconfirmed name)

Wii Fit Trainer - Wii Fit

Marth - Critical Hit
Ike - unknown

Little Mac - Giga Mac

Mii Gunner - unknown
Mii Swordsman - unknown
Mii Brawler - unknown

Pac-Man - Super Pac-Man (unconfirmed name)

Sonic - Super Sonic (aka the fucking overpowered one)

Mega Man - Black Hole Bomb/Mega Co-stars (unconfirmed name)
 
Lord Phol said:
What I don't get it how people can be so upset and feel so entitled when a game doesn't turn out the way THEY want it to even if that's never been the focus of the game from that start. Smash has never tried to compete with the likes of street fighter, it's never been about final destination with no items only. It's the competitive community that's tried shaping it into that. I'm fine with people enjoying the game however they want but when they start acting all douchy and childish about it that's when I think they can just go fuck themselves.
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Quoted for truth.

I did not get pissed off at Galaxy for being Super Mario 64 in space. I played it and did not like it. Played Galaxy 2 and enjoyed it. Many people just like to complain...
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I had a whole response typed out but

just

I don't agree and think you are misremembering how people reacted
Click to expand...

I didn't pay much attention to how other people reacted. All I know is The Division was my game of the show last year. The reveal was obviously a big part of it. The one thing I do remember is a lot of people on GAF saying it looked great and was a nice surprise.

Personally, as I said, I was unsure at first if it was NPCs or real people. When I realized it was real people, it was a pretty cool.

They were well acted, didn't say cheesy stuff, and it made the game look fun imo. This isn't a Division thread but I'd love to hear what you thought through pm or in this thread (if we can keep it on topic.)
 
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