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[TeRey09]

...huh?

Wasn't this announced back in... last October? I think?

It was announced in August at Gamescom.

 

[Nightengale]

I thought every Xbox One was a dev kit?

Not yet.

 

[Bsigg12]

I thought every Xbox One was a dev kit?

The base stuff is in there but from what's official, they haven't made it functional yet.

 

[reptilescorpio]

NICE. Also from one of the devs, straigth from the Cuphead thread:



Also, their game (Cuphead) looks SWELL, can't wait to play it.

Yeah Cuphead looks awesome, really keen to dig into that game whenever it is that it comes out.

 

[LukasTaves]

Why the guy makes a distinction between loaned dev kits from Sony/Nintendo, and free devkits from Ms?

Do the kits handed over by Sony and Nintendo are only temporary or something?

I don't think this has been made official yet, has it?

Not for the public, but xbone devkits are the same as retail units for Ms.

Are we going to give Sony props for every Dev kit they loaned out before running out of systems to loan out?

Good for these guys that they can get their game on a console though, played Volgarr on the PC and it's a ton of fun, hopefully it ends up everywhere for them eventually and they put out something equally as entertaining.

Should we give props to sony that they are out of stock of loaned kits, but told the guys they still can buy them?

If they have devkits to sell why not give them for free? Or the free kits are different from the paid ones?

 

[PhatSaqs]

Why the guy makes a distinction between loaned dev kits from Sony/Nintendo, and free devkits from Ms?

Do the kits handed over by Sony and Nintendo are only temporary

thats what a loan is.

 

[rokkerkory]

How is this in any way a bad thing as some are making it out, or portraying it in a negative light?

We are getting more games and devs are getting to do what they do best. Isn't that good for everyone?

 

[Zukuu]

I don't think this has been made official yet, has it?

not for private consoles, but I'm sure they simply unlock a normal console.

 

[Nightengale]

Loaners are temporary.Don't quote me on it,but i think it was a year or something like that for Sony's?

Recall that being mentioned somewhere in GAF last year. Could easily be tales from my arse.

 

[LukasTaves]

thats what a loan is.

Yes, but I had the impression all three of them were actually giving away free devkits, not just loaning...

Do we know for how long devs can keep their kits?

 

[hawk2025]

How is this in any way a bad thing as some are making it out, or portraying it in a negative light?

We are getting more games and devs are getting to do what they do best. Isn't that good for everyone?

Because people are silly. Of course it's a great thing.

Especially in this case -- it's a team that wanted to make a game for consoles and literally wouldn't have done so otherwise. I have no idea how someone could possibly react negatively to this. Really, really silly.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Loaners are temporary.Don't quote me on it,but i think it was a year or something like that for Sony's?

Recall that being mentioned somewhere in GAF last year. Could easily be tales from my arse.

Pretty sure they can keep them as long as they plan on using them into the future. Again, this is just what I recall reading from this time last year.

 

[Sundown]

Yes, but I had the impression all three of them were actually giving away free devkits, not just loaning...

Do we know for how long devs can keep their kits?

Dev kits cost quite a bit of money, thousands even. Only Microsoft is giving them away for free afaik.

 

[Nightengale]

Dev kits cost quite a bit of money, thousands even. Only Microsoft is giving them away for free afaik.

They're giving two for free per studio. Still need to pay if they need more.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Yes, but I had the impression all three of them were actually giving away free devkits, not just loaning...

Do we know for how long devs can keep their kits?

Unless they've changed it, Sonys loaners are good for a year.

 

[LukasTaves]

Dev kits cost quite a bit of money, thousands even. Only Microsoft is giving them away for free afaik.

I see. Guess you have to take a more aggressive approach when you are late to the party XD

But if they keep this program after a few years, might be a factor in play for them to get some games first on their platform.

 

[Sundown]

I see. Guess you have to take a more aggressive approach when you are late to the party XD

But if they keep this program after a few years, might be a factor in play for them to get some games first on their platform.

I think MS had a standing practice of loaning out dev kits in the 360 era, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Dragonborn]

Sony and Nintendo can't afford "loner" systems, gtfo.

It just means that they ran out. It's not out of the question, there's only so many they can give and the PS4 especially is likely in high demand.

 

[staticneuron]

Sony and Nintendo can't afford "loner" systems, gtfo.

The dev quote said nothing about being able to "afford" them but you do know these system have to be "built" right? Enough demand and they may have ran out of the kits they made to loan out.

You're drawing some pretty big assumptions on a post that gives very little to no info. Dev kits cost a lot of money. I'd imagine Sony and Nintendo prefer developers buy those and put money in their pocket than loan them so they set aside a limited number of dev kits as loaners. Microsoft obviously have a different approach and just give the kits away at no cost on the understanding they'll be used for development.

Was your post meant to be some kind stealth system war post, cause it sure does read like one.

What a curious post here. So you are saying that Sony and Nintendo would rather try to squeeze a small dev for cash, preventing chances of them developing on their system?

Given all the news articles and indie titles released for the Vita and PS4, one would think Sony went to some lengths to court indie devs.

http://www.wired.com/2013/04/sony-indies/

A recent survey showed that 53 percent of developers self-identify as independent, and Sony is angling to get as many of them on PlayStation devices as possible. And to hear the developers tell it, the reason they’re flocking to PlayStation is due as much to what Sony does right as to what Xbox maker Microsoft is doing wrong.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/so...e-devs-to-showcase-games-at-tgs/1100-6419932/

Independent developers hoping to showcase their games at the Tokyo Game Show's Indie Game Arena won't have to pay to do so thanks to Sony, which will be footing the bill for IGA exhibitors this year.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/20/55...-the-stage-to-praise-playstation-4s-developer

He said that the platform creator has been allowing indies to publish titles on the PlayStation 3 since 2008, including the ability to set their own price and date and no fees for getting licensed.

Bettenhausen stressed that his job exists as part of Sony's efforts to provide smaller developers with networking and PR help. He said Sony wants it to be easy for developers to bring PC and mobile titles onto all of its platforms, most notably the PlayStation 4.

Bettenhausen revealed that since launching a new web portal for indie developers last year, 200 new teams have been licensed for creating content on PlayStation devices, with another 350 in the middle of the process right now. He said that over 100 indie titles are in development for the PlayStation 4.

Even Nintendo gets some praise.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/198250/is_wii_us_eshop_right_for_your_.php?print=1

While some developers were hesitant to recommend to other developers bringing their game to eShop because of software sales uncertainty, all developers we spoke with were happy with their experience in working with Nintendo. The company has apparently been generous with loaner development kits and general developer support. According to developers we spoke with, Nintendo has been responsive to the needs of the free-to-play business model as well.

Yeah, so no "Stealth" system wars post here, just someone who has read the news that has been consistently flowing about Sony and their attempts to attract indie devs. One would imagine that someone who would try to start something... would post something touchy without any information to back up their empty assumptions.

We should give them props because they aren't giving out "loaner" kits but actual free kits. If you read the rest of your bolded section it says:

Yes it said because they were out of loaner kits they would have to buy them. The fact remains that if they had loaner kits, they wouldn't have to purchase them. The sheer fact that they have loaner kits, should tell you something.

 

[klaus]

The fact remains that if they had loaner kits, they wouldn't have to purchase them. The sheer fact that they have loaner kits, should tell you something.

The sheer fact that they don't give out free devkits to keep (while MS does) should tell you something. See how easy it is to spin your spin?

 

[Pops Maellard]

Are we going to give Sony props for every Dev kit they loaned out before running out of systems to loan out?

Good for these guys that they can get their game on a console though, played Volgarr on the PC and it's a ton of fun, hopefully it ends up everywhere for them eventually and they put out something equally as entertaining.

You don't run out of a system that your company manufactures... They reached a point at which they deemed it cost prohibitive to lend out devkits, and stopped doing it. Of course, that's assuming they ever did this in the first place, which I was not at all aware of. I was under the impression that they had only sold the devkits in the past, and never had a small batch of kits they loaned out.

Very cool of Microsoft to do this.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I thought every Xbox One was a dev kit?

Not yet, but it's weird that MS said this was part of the XBO design and they've been working on this since they started designing the console (the idea of each XBO being a devkit was something that was developed along side the system itself). Yet it probably won't be a reality until 2015...why is it taking so long exactly?

 

[mike4001_]

Jesus Christ. For the trillionth time, there's no such thing as a philanthropic multi-billion dollar corporation. They're in business for money, and every move they make is a calculated move to better position themselves to make more of it. So yes, you're 100% correct. This is a business move through and through, but so is everything else in the industry.

Exactly.

Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo are neither good nor bad.

They are on this earth to make the most money they can. If they think giving out "free stuff" will help them achieve this, they will do so.

 

[Kyougar]

You're drawing some pretty big assumptions on a post that gives very little to no info. Dev kits cost a lot of money. I'd imagine Sony and Nintendo prefer developers buy those and put money in their pocket than loan them so they set aside a limited number of dev kits as loaners. Microsoft obviously have a different approach and just give the kits away at no cost on the understanding they'll be used for development.

Was your post meant to be some kind stealth system war post, cause it sure does read like one.

But.... thats what he says. Sony run out of free Devkits. Microsoft has still free devkits laying around. We dont know how many Devkits bith companies have available for free.

It could be (numbers totally made up by me), that Sony had 5000 Free Devkits and Microsoft *unlimited*. Sony run out and Microsoft gave only 2500 away.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The dev quote said nothing about being able to "afford" them but you do know these system have to be "built" right? Enough demand and they may have ran out of the kits they made to loan out.

This thread is really going places, and it's pathetic that people are arguing over who is the bigger benefactor to small studios. All of them are doing fantastic work, and all of them should be commended for it.

So I believe that what Sony is doing is bloody great, particularly since they're seemingly still putting the largest emphasis on indies, and this is not a dig at them, but there's just this obvious logical flaw in what you said that I feel like I have to point out. If they have run out of "loaner" kits, yet they have kits available for purchase, what's stopping them from just loaning those out?

 

[Dragonborn]

This thread is really going places, and it's pathetic that people are arguing over who is the bigger benefactor to small studios. All of them are doing fantastic work, and all of them should be commended for it.

So I believe that what Sony is doing is bloody great, particularly since they're seemingly still putting the largest emphasis on indies, and this is not a dig at them, but there's just this obvious logical flaw in what you said that I feel like I have to point out. If they have run out of "loaner" kits, yet they have kits available for purchase, what's stopping them from just loaning those out?

There's not really an argument to be had. It's good that MS is doing this, but why praise them for getting with the times? It's pretty straight forward.

I don't see a thread every time Nintendo or Sony hand out a free dev kit because there's no reason for one.

 

[Michael Armbrust]

If there's one thing I've learned from being an indie dev working on consoles, it's that what most of the public takes as fact is actually not true.

It's really hard reading people make wrong assumptions in this thread and not being able to correct them hahaha!

Microsoft's indie program is great thoguh. Getting dev kits is crucial (duh) to an indie making their game.

 

[zhao3gold]

Desperate countermeasures because you're losing the war are not good will.

You really deserve the ban...

 

[yatesl]

You guys are missing the bigger picture here.

Volgarr is being ported to the Xbox.

 

[Bundy]

Sony and Nintendo can't afford "loner" systems, gtfo.

You do realize that Sony and Nintendo are doing this already for over a year now?

 

[justsomeguy]

It just means that they ran out. It's not out of the question, there's only so many they can give and the PS4 especially is likely in high demand.

Not true, the dev clearly says he can BUY one, Sony just won't lend him one.

 

[Michael Armbrust]

But.... thats what he says. Sony run out of free Devkits. Microsoft has still free devkits laying around. We dont know how many Devkits bith companies have available for free.

It could be (numbers totally made up by me), that Sony had 5000 Free Devkits and Microsoft *unlimited*. Sony run out and Microsoft gave only 2500 away.

Companies don't run out of free devkits lol.

It's more of a policy change than anything else.

(No, Sony did not wake up one day and decide to stop loaning out dev kits. Just trust me that it makes sense)

 

[Acrylic7]

Umm if you hand out dev kits that means you get free games on your console so I honestly dont think MS cared about the developers here. Free games in exchange for a devkite is good because of the free publicity and almost guaranteed software.
Win Win. Or a help me, help you, help me kind of thing.

 

[staticneuron]

The sheer fact that they don't give out free devkits to keep (while MS does) should tell you something. See how easy it is to spin your spin?

What this tells me is some poster get far to defensive when presented with information, so they chose to ignore the entire wall of information provided and try to snip at a small part. Good Job.

This thread is really going places, and it's pathetic that people are arguing over who is the bigger benefactor to small studios. All of them are doing fantastic work, and all of them should be commended for it.

So I believe that what Sony is doing is bloody great, particularly since they're seemingly still putting the largest emphasis on indies, and this is not a dig at them, but there's just this obvious logical flaw in what you said that I feel like I have to point out. If they have run out of "loaner" kits, yet they have kits available for purchase, what's stopping them from just loaning those out?

My post had nothing to do with "who is bigger" the point is that they are all trying. In the case of the Xbox One they are playing catch up. So they started the ID@xbox and every dev gets at least 2 dev kits at no cost when they register.

I am not really seeing this as a praiseworthy move (one done out of pure generosity) but one aimed at being more competitive and taking back the positive buzz they had back during early XBLA days.

Also for the PS4, when you see the list of large third party devs out there and the numbers of over 100 indie titles being made for PS4, the logical question is how many dev kits do they have for purchase/loan first, then you would debate about the ratio of purchasable kits and loaner kits.

Another thing to ask is cost..

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/4553842/so-how-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-for-playstation-4

Polygon spoke to various development sources who say that the PlayStation 4 dev kit costs about $2,500, which is $2,000 more than an Xbox One. Indie Xbox One developers will also pay a fee to Microsoft, which a source said is a few hundred dollars. Microsoft declined to talk publicly about the fee.

Although this $2,500 price is being cited in development circles, the game-makers we spoke to all said that Sony had lent them dev kits for a limited period of one year, for free. As of right now, there are no dev kits being sold. Sony is sending whatever it has available to favored developers. "All the indies I know got them for free," said one developer. "Sony has been amazing about kits and development thus far."

Another developer said that Sony is focused on loaners, rather than collecting fees. "They are handing them out like candy," he said.

Granted the article is older but this is a good example of the push they were making. Also what is easier to eat the cost on? A kit that cost $2500 or one that costs $500? Again, in addition to pushing out free engines, middleware and tools, Sony basically had a few months head start in courting indie devs for the PS4 and given the numbers it looked like it helped get the Nintendo and MS moving faster in their plans as well.

 

[Michael Armbrust]

^

The $500 price was the consumer system. Dev kits cost a lot more than that lol.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

How do you run out of 'free' dev kits to give to developers?

 

[Renekton]

Maybe they could also give more affordable pricing for Visual Studio ;_;

 

[justsomeguy]

Companies don't run out of free devkits lol.

It's more of a policy change than anything else.

(No, Sony did not wake up one day and decide to stop loaning out dev kits. Just trust me that it makes sense)

You probably can't answer, but is it somehow related to whether or not you are coming to Sony platforms first / exclusively and/or whether you're enrolled in the ID programme ?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

You probably can't answer, but is it somehow related to whether or not you are coming to Sony platforms first / exclusively and/or whether you're enrolled in the ID programme ?

I could see that being the reason. Or it might be that the developers have to make a Vita port too or no loaner dev kit?

 

[dragonbane]

How do you run out of 'free' dev kits to give to developers?

Maybe they need the rest for paying devs until they receive the next big shipment? PS4 dev kit is specialised hardware. I mean they can't let themselves get into a situation where a big dev needs like 50 dev kits immediately and Sony doesn't have any left in stock. Would be pretty embarrassing, so in case a big order suddenly gets in I'm sure Sony has to hold quite a few of them back.

 

[staticneuron]

^

The $500 price was the consumer system. Dev kits cost a lot more than that lol.

Just out of curiosity (you can PM me if you don't feel comfortable stating it here) Do you work for Microsoft, or have you worked for Microsoft in the past? Are you a software engineer?

 

[Fleshfeast]

I will double dip on Volgarr. Not necessarily because of this, but because the game is so good.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Maybe they need the rest for paying devs until they receive the next big shipment? PS4 dev kit is specialised hardware. I mean they can't let themselves get into a situation where a big dev needs like 50 dev kits immediately and Sony doesn't have any left in stock. Would be pretty embarrassing, so in case a big order suddenly gets in I'm sure Sony has to hold quite a few of them back.

Sure, but they must be churning out these dev kits pretty quickly. It's not like they can't have foreseen how much demand there would be.

Seems strange is all, to suddenly turn around and say you can't have a loaner kit, but you're free to buy one. It doesn't sound like there's an issue with supply, more that Sony have made a few changes to their loaner program.

 

[Sidewinder]

Good news for Völgarr and Xbox One, sad that we won't get it on the Vita for some time (if at all) ;(
Just love playing games like these on the little Beast.

 

[Bundy]

Sure, but they must be churning out these dev kits pretty quickly.

Sony handing out PS4 dev kit loaners 'like candy'

 

[Michael Armbrust]

You probably can't answer, but is it somehow related to whether or not you are coming to Sony platforms first / exclusively and/or whether you're enrolled in the ID programme ?

No. Sony's really open with indies being on other platforms.

Just out of curiosity (you can PM me if you don't feel comfortable stating it here) Do you work for Microsoft, or have you worked for Microsoft in the past? Are you a software engineer?

I'm an indie dev, so no I don't work for Microsoft lol.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Sony handing out PS4 dev kit loaners 'like candy'

Seems the candy shop has closed its doors based on the OP.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Sony handing out PS4 dev kit loaners 'like candy'

You should probably create a thread

 

[bidguy]

Sony handing out PS4 dev kit loaners 'like candy'

and now they want money

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

My post had nothing to do with "who is bigger" the point is that they are all trying. In the case of the Xbox One they are playing catch up. So they started the ID@xbox and every dev gets at least 2 dev kits at no cost when they register.

I am not really seeing this as a praiseworthy move (one done out of pure generosity) but one aimed at being more competitive and taking back the positive buzz they had back during early XBLA days.

No shit, nobody is doing anything out of generosity. Microsoft is being more forthcoming because they're playing catch up, just like Sony was being more forthcoming last gen with certain things (free online being the most obvious example, but also things like more aggressive first party publishing schedule compared to the rather anemic situation now) because they were the ones playing catch up. That doesn't mean that within the context those things are not worthy of praise.