Official Destiny Alpha Withdrawal Thread

Man Beta can't come soon enough. Having had to do the unthinkable and get rid of all my consoles but one I managed to keep, I need this game and really want to see if it holds up on Xbone. I am sure it will since it's Bungie but damn I won't lie it worries me that we haven't seen even 1 shred of media from the xbone version.
 
You must have never been in a hardcore raiding guild, even hard raids will be overcome, often within weeks.

And once the strats are known even the more casual players will be able to finish the raid.(This is pretty much the case in WoW.)
Once it reaches this stage, people will continue to have fun with the raid for a while but it never takes long before a raid gets boring especially if there aren't any other raids to switch between.

While this is generally how things work now, there's a few things you're not taking into account.

-This happens the fastest BY FAR, in WoW due to the Hardcore Guilds knowing the backend values on everything that has to do with their classes. They literally provide spreadsheets that can be filled out with Item Names enabling players to have the best performance output available in the game. These spreadsheets are updated constantly. This will not be the case for Destiny for a long while, IF it ever gets to that point.

-It happens even faster now than it used to because Blizzard recruits top guilds to actually test their Raid Content before release. So a lot of times strats for bosses are known by the best guilds by the time the content is released. Once they kill it and get their World First credit.. they then release the strats to everyone else. This won't be the case for Destiny either.

-The smallest factor but still a factor none the less is that WoW very rarely comes up with a completely new mechanic. Most new mechanics by now are just a twist on a previous one. This enables players to very quickly figure out what's necessary to complete the phase successfully. This will most likely be an unknown factor for Destiny, at the very least for the first Raid.

So really, I doubt the first Raid will be completed anywhere near as quickly as WoW raid content is.

Is that short for strategies or something?

Yes.
 
Is that some sort of MMO lingo or whatever?

Most likely, pretty much everything that can get abbreviated gets abbreviated.
If you play a MMO that has existed for a while or return to one after a long hiatus then you often have to ask someone what everything they say means because you can get pretty lost.

Am pretty sure that ''Vault of glass'' would be shortened to ''Vag'' (lol) if Destiny had a text based chat system.

Example: Lfm for Vag HM (Looking for members for Vault of Glass Hard Mode).
 
While this is generally how things work now, there's a few things you're not taking into account.

-This happens the fastest BY FAR, in WoW due to the Hardcore Guilds knowing the backend values on everything that has to do with their classes. They literally provide spreadsheets that can be filled out with Item Names enabling players to have the best performance output available in the game. These spreadsheets are updated constantly. This will not be the case for Destiny for a long while, IF it ever gets to that point.

-It happens even faster now than it used to because Blizzard recruits top guilds to actually test their Raid Content before release. So a lot of times strats for bosses are known by the best guilds by the time the content is released. Once they kill it and get their World First credit.. they then release the strats to everyone else. This won't be the case for Destiny either.

-The smallest factor but still a factor none the less is that WoW very rarely comes up with a completely new mechanic. Most new mechanics by now are just a twist on a previous one. This enables players to very quickly figure out what's necessary to complete the phase successfully. This will most likely be an unknown factor for Destiny, at the very least for the first Raid.

So really, I doubt the first Raid will be completed anywhere near as quickly as WoW raid content is.



Yes.

You know I don't think the "Raids" in this game are going to be near as complex as something in WOW either though. I think the raids will be able to be beaten pretty quickly. Either way I hope people will be able to do a raid and have the game fill in the other 5 people a lot like you would a strike. I tend to not have a lot of people to play with and it would be nice to still be able to do them.
 
Harder difficulties for raids have been a thing for quite some time now, WoW does it aswell.
And it does help the longevity a bit but in the end it's still the same raid.

...

One raid is not enough to keep people happy with the endgame, especially not for those that do not like to pvp.

I mainly agree with you, but what make you think that Destiny's end-game will rely only (or let's say "a lot") on Raids ?

For what we saw during the alpha, there are plenty things to do in "free roam" mode and it require a good level (stuff/abilities) and skill.

You know I don't think the "Raids" in this game are going to be near as complex as something in WOW either though. I think the raids will be able to be beaten pretty quickly. Either way I hope people will be able to do a raid and have the game fill in the other 5 people a lot like you would a strike. I tend to not have a lot of people to play with and it would be nice to still be able to do them.

Actually, the only thing we know about this raid is its particular difficulty, so i'll not count on "being able to beat it quickly". What do you mean about "near as complex" ? You think it will only be a matter of "ride and shoot" ?
 
Hope there will be enough smart boss designs. It was pretty fun to figure out how to kill the walker on legendary in a really short time. As someone who plays since his very young days the challenge in coop/singleplayer shooters is completely gone.


This game can't come soon enough.
Please, Bungie.. deliver.
 
Most likely, pretty much everything that can get abbreviated gets abbreviated.
If you play a MMO that has existed for a while or return to one after a long hiatus then you often have to ask someone what everything they say means because you can get pretty lost.

Am pretty sure that ''Vault of glass'' would be shortened to ''Vag'' (lol) if Destiny had a text based chat system.

Example: Lfm for Vag HM (Looking for members for Vault of Glass Hard Mode).

It would be "VoG." Your suggestion is too likely to result in language temp bans.

You know I don't think the "Raids" in this game are going to be near as complex as something in WOW either though. I think the raids will be able to be beaten pretty quickly. Either way I hope people will be able to do a raid and have the game fill in the other 5 people a lot like you would a strike. I tend to not have a lot of people to play with and it would be nice to still be able to do them.

They probably won't be quite as involved as MMO Raids but I'm willing to bet that Bungie will make up for less complex fights with more Puzzles and Platforming challenges. But there's quite a lot of things that they could implement that would make fights harder, and they pretty much have to because the differences in combat between the two types of games necessitates it. There's no Holy Trilogy in Destiny (Tank, Healer, DPS) and damage can be completely avoided in Destiny where it can't in standard MMO's.
 
Most likely, pretty much everything that can get abbreviated gets abbreviated.
If you play a MMO that has existed for a while or return to one after a long hiatus then you often have to ask someone what everything they say means because you can get pretty lost.

Am pretty sure that ''Vault of glass'' would be shortened to ''Vag'' (lol) if Destiny had a text based chat system.

Example: Lfm for Vag HM (Looking for members for Vault of Glass Hard Mode).
That all sounds incredibly dumb, especially the "vag" part. (Really?)
 
W

So really, I doubt the first Raid will be completed anywhere near as quickly as WoW raid content is.



Yes.

Also, from Bungie's point of view if you beat the raid, don't like PvP, and want to stop playing that is fine. There is no monthly fee so they don't need to pump content out as quick to get you to keep playing. There are reasons they don't like referring to destiny as an MMO, or spend much time talking about the raid and one seems to be they aren't designing the game for hardcore raiding guilds.
 
That all sounds incredibly dumb, especially the "vag" part. (Really?)

it is how it is but yea it would be VOG not VAG. He errored there. I remember playing WOW and sometimes I had to go WHAT? The lingo is just weird. Me and those I used to play with pre them becoming dicks would just use regular lingo and actually spell things out. Never had problem getting people either. Most appreciated that we didn't go L42MICC10m.
 
While this is generally how things work now, there's a few things you're not taking into account.

-This happens the fastest BY FAR, in WoW due to the Hardcore Guilds knowing the backend values on everything that has to do with their classes. They literally provide spreadsheets that can be filled out with Item Names enabling players to have the best performance output available in the game. These spreadsheets are updated constantly. This will not be the case for Destiny for a long while, IF it ever gets to that point.

-It happens even faster now than it used to because Blizzard recruits top guilds to actually test their Raid Content before release. So a lot of times strats for bosses are known by the best guilds by the time the content is released. Once they kill it and get their World First credit.. they then release the strats to everyone else. This won't be the case for Destiny either.

-The smallest factor but still a factor none the less is that WoW very rarely comes up with a completely new mechanic. Most new mechanics by now are just a twist on a previous one. This enables players to very quickly figure out what's necessary to complete the phase successfully. This will most likely be an unknown factor for Destiny, at the very least for the first Raid.

So really, I doubt the first Raid will be completed anywhere near as quickly as WoW raid content is.



Yes.

While you have some very good points, it doesn't really dispell my concerns.
I still believe that there will be plenty of Hardcore raiding groups that will figure out how to complete the Vault of Glass reasonably fast (probably within a month of reaching end game content) and once they do, they will release walkthroughs and show which strategies work best and/or are the easiest to execute.
At this point it won't take much longer before the more casual players will succeed in finishing the Vault of glass aswell.

And then the routine of clearing the Raid and farming gear begins, this makes the raid even easier to complete and in time the Raid gets old and boring, a hard mode extends longevity a bit but will get old aswell.

The fact that there are no other raids to switch between doesn't help longevity either.


So yeah.. these are my fears, you might not agree but from experience i can say that this is pretty much how things go.




That all sounds incredibly dumb, especially the "vag" part. (Really?)

Yes it does look and sound dumb, i have not invented this nor am i a fan of the fact that the majority of people in MMO's feel the need to abbreviate everything that they can.
It just get's confusing, i have had to ask the meaning of alot of stuff in MMO's.

There is probably an entire list of MMO lingo if you google... hf, gg, brb, bbl.. etc etc.

Oh and yes i was completely serious about the ''Vag'' part, it would not take long before someone turned "VoG" into ''Vag" for some cheap laughs and then the rest will adopt this practice because people are childish and think it is funny.
 
Actually, the only thing we know about this raid is its particular difficulty, so i'll not count on "being able to beat it quickly". What do you mean about "near as complex" ? You think it will only be a matter of "ride and shoot" ?

The simplicity of WoW's combat (target an enemy and hit attack skills at it's base) means that fights have to have more involving mechanics to keep the players in a Raid constantly multi-tasking. So players typically have to constantly move to avoid various attacks, sometimes they have to stand in certain spots to gain an effect that enables them to do damage/not do damage, sometimes they have to attack certain things in order, sometimes they have to gain the attention of certain enemies and make them chase them away from other party members while not getting hit by thems, etc..

Anything that makes the fight more than kill the boss before the boss kills you.

Why wouldn't it be VoG? Too much sense?

It would be. He may have just been joking a bit.

While you have some very good points, it doesn't really dispell my concerns.
I still believe that there will be plenty of Hardcore raiding groups that will figure out how to complete the Vault of Glass reasonably fast (probably within a month of reaching end game content) and once they do, they will release walkthroughs and show which strategies work best and/or are the easiest to execute.
At this point it won't take much longer before the more casual players will succeed in finishing the Vault of glass aswell.

And then the routine of clearing the Raid and farming gear begins, this makes the raid even easier to complete and in time the Raid gets old and boring, a hard mode extends longevity a bit but will get old aswell.

The fact that there are no other raids to switch between doesn't help longevity either.


So yeah.. these are my fears, you might not agree but from experience i can say that this is pretty much how things go.

You're still not giving enough credence to the way these things happen. Itemization is a MAJOR part of being able to beat WoW encounters since they have Rage Timers. Destiny has no PC client to slueth into to gain info about Gear Stats and the actual formula's for how Damage, Defense, etc.. are calculated are unknown and not likely to be released by Bungie. All people will have to go on is the percentages shown on the launch screen for Raids/Strikes. There's also enough variance in gear that it's going to be hard to say "THIS gear and weapon loadout is the best for X class" like they can in WoW and other games.

You can also miss your attacks in Destiny, which is much, much harder to do in WoW when you're itemized correctly. Destiny is a different monster than a traditional MMO in many ways. Hell WoW is pretty much the only MMO where people are able to clear Raid Content that quickly even when compared to other traditional MMO's.

Believe me, I have plenty of MMO experience. WoW from Vanilla through Cata, Warhammer Online, SWTOR, and more. I did endgame raiding in all of these games. Destiny being an FPS makes it inherently different. I'm not saying it'll take 6 months to clear the raid.. but I think a month would be on the quick side and it'll still take the majority of the playerbase much longer to full clear, let alone get to farm status on it.
 
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Well then, let's not do that here, please.

Want me to delete my post? I was just explaining how the world of MMO's work.

Note that this is pretty much the experience i had with WoW which might be the worst offender of stuff like this.

Edit: Holy shit hahaha, well it seems the damage is done. GG harry.
 
Want me to delete my post? I was just explaining how the world of MMO's work.

Note that this is pretty much the experience i had with WoW which might be the worst offender of stuff like this.

Edit: Holy shit hahaha, well it seems the damage is done. GG harry.

I think you've already opened a portal to hell. Deleting it won't do much at this point. All hell has broken loose.
 
I think you've already opened a portal to hell. Deleting it won't do much at this point. All hell has broken loose.

I have gone and opened Pandora's Box haven't i...

Sorry Dax >.>;



You're still not giving enough credence to the way these things happen. Itemization is a MAJOR part of being able to beat WoW encounters since they have Rage Timers. Destiny has no PC client to slueth into to gain info about Gear Stats and the actual formula's for how Damage, Defense, etc.. are calculated are unknown and not likely to be released by Bungie. All people will have to go on is the percentages shown on the launch screen for Raids/Strikes. There's also enough variance in gear that it's going to be hard to say "THIS gear and weapon loadout is the best for X class" like they can in WoW and other games.

You can also miss your attacks in Destiny, which is much, much harder to do in WoW when you're itemized correctly. Destiny is a different monster than a traditional MMO in many ways. Hell WoW is pretty much the only MMO where people are able to clear Raid Content that quickly even when compared to other traditional MMO's.

Believe me, I have plenty of MMO experience. WoW from Vanilla through Cata, Warhammer Online, SWTOR, and more. I did endgame raiding in all of these games. Destiny being an FPS makes it inherently different. I'm not saying it'll take 6 months to clear the raid.. but I think a month would be on the quick side and it'll still take the majority of the playerbase much longer to full clear, let alone get to farm status on it.

Well i just hope you are right dude, i really do.
 
The simplicity of WoW's combat (target an enemy and hit attack skills at it's base) means that fights have to have more involving mechanics to keep the players in a Raid constantly multi-tasking. So players typically have to constantly move to avoid various attacks, sometimes they have to stand in certain spots to gain an effect that enables them to do damage/not do damage, sometimes they have to attack certain things in order, sometimes they have to gain the attention of certain enemies and make them chase them away from other party members while not getting hit by thems, etc..

Anything that makes the fight more than kill the boss before the boss kills you.

...

I know all of this (in the case of "standard MMO" like WoW, SWTOR, TSW aaaaaaaaand that's the only three i did)

But what you're talking about is sort of "normal" for any MMO's end-game. I was only asking what make you think Destiny will not deliver his own kind of "complexity" (hence the "ride and shoot" allusion) ?


GBTTT.

ps: So it begins...
 
You're still not giving enough credence to the way these things happen. Itemization is a MAJOR part of being able to beat WoW encounters since they have Rage Timers. Destiny has no PC client to slueth into to gain info about Gear Stats and the actual formula's for how Damage, Defense, etc.. are calculated are unknown and not likely to be released by Bungie. All people will have to go on is the percentages shown on the launch screen for Raids/Strikes. There's also enough variance in gear that it's going to be hard to say "THIS gear and weapon loadout is the best for X class" like they can in WoW and other games.

You can also miss your attacks in Destiny, which is much, much harder to do in WoW when you're itemized correctly. Destiny is a different monster than a traditional MMO in many ways. Hell WoW is pretty much the only MMO where people are able to clear Raid Content that quickly even when compared to other traditional MMO's.

Believe me, I have plenty of MMO experience. WoW from Vanilla through Cata, Warhammer Online, SWTOR, and more. I did endgame raiding in all of these games. Destiny being an FPS makes it inherently different. I'm not saying it'll take 6 months to clear the raid.. but I think a month would be on the quick side and it'll still take the majority of the playerbase much longer to full clear, let alone get to farm status on it.

This man speaks the truth. I think the comparisons with WoW raids will quickly fall by the wayside once Destiny is released. I believe Destiny is a whole different animal, and raids will not be cleared with the same quickness for the reasons stated. In particular, as stated Destiny's FPS mechanics guarantee that missing a shot is a very real possibility, and while gear and abilities, cool downs, etc. are important and need to be managed, the foundation is still getting your guns and bullets on the target. WoW's mechanics, on the other have, have always revolved around the right gear, potting up, not standing in the fire, and pushing the right button (or clicking on the right box--haha) at the right time in the right sequence, managing cool downs etc.

This relatively simple combat process is, in my opinion, why WoW raids get beaten in record time these days. There are simply not many new variations for Blizzard to throw into an encounter after 10 years. The simple ability to aim, shoot and hit or miss, as in Destiny, is, I think, a game changer for your typical MMO-type raid.
 
Ahem... Destiny is not a MMO. Just like Pluto does not clear it's orbit of shit around it thus stopping it from being a planet, Destiny does not have more than 50 people in a perfesitent world playing together, thus not making it a MMO.

This has been brought to you be Fick MMOs.
 
I know all of this (in the case of "standard MMO" like WoW, SWTOR, TSW, aaaaaaaaand that's the only three i did)

But what you're talking about is sort of "normal" for any MMO's end-game. I was only asking what make you think Destiny will not deliver his own kind of "complexity" (hence the "ride and shoot" allusion) ?

Being a shooter rather than a tab to target MMO will be enough to force a difference. In the Alpha alone we saw the initial complaints of "Bullet Sponge" for an encounter (Walker) that wasn't long by MMO standards. However once people geared up and learned it, Walker was being downed in 10 minutes or so. Having players attune, gain and drop Buffs and Debuffs, kite unkillable mobs, beat rage timers, etc.. will exacerbate those types of claims, so Bungie will likely have to design in such a way as to make the fights harder while making the strats more obvious. This stuff is standard in MMO's but not in FPS games, so Bungie will have to ease the playerbase into it or risk alienating the casual FPS crowd that doesn't have MMO experience.
 
Indeed. At the very least, it makes me even more happy than I already was that there's no text chat options in Destiny at the moment.

Yeah... i have seen people ask about a way to comminicate with others outside of the fireteam and i have seen suggestions of a text system or proximity chat.

But i think bungie has probably made the right decision excluding both of those.
 
We're all slowly going crazy because we don't have access to Destiny. Brohan was just the first to break.

I don't know how it happened... I tried to share my fears. Got asked what ''strats'' means and yeah... it's obvious where it ended up.

Bungie please let me play the Beta early, it's obvious that i'm losing my sanity!
 
I've applied to the DestingGAF group. PSN/XBL/Bungie.net ID: Wolffen . Looking forward to playing with you guys during the Beta and in September.
 
So speaking of Beta and retail who all is going with xbone? Sadly I have no choice. I had to get rid of a bunch of my consoles. I did manage to keep the xbone though. I really wish these companies would learn to play nice though and allow for cross platform play. It would do nothing but help both companies out because people then wouldn't have to choose a console in situations like this.
 
So speaking of Beta and retail who all is going with xbone? Sadly I have no choice. I had to get rid of a bunch of my consoles. I did manage to keep the xbone though. I really wish these companies would learn to play nice though and allow for cross platform play. It would do nothing but help both companies out because people then wouldn't have to choose a console in situations like this.
I'm probably am although its likely i will get both versions I am most likely going to stick with xbone as my main way to play for the better controller(IMO) and friends.
 
I've applied to the DestingGAF group. PSN/XBL/Bungie.net ID: Wolffen . Looking forward to playing with you guys during the Beta and in September.

DestiGAF application

PSN ID/ Bungie ID - Ayz88

Applied to join DestinyGAF.

Bungie/ PSN ID = Rosur


Approved - Welcome to
The Crazy House
DestinyGAF!

You and me Cmdr, let's see if Aus/NZDestinyGAF can be the first subgroup to get it done :D

Will round up the dropbears to ensure our victory. I am sure the dropbears survived the darkness cleanse the first time around.
 
I'm probably am although its likely i will get both versions I am most likely going to stick with xbone as my main way to play for the better controller(IMO) and friends.

I was going with both. Hell still have the PS4 pre-load done. Just had to make some hard choices though and cut down to one console. Luckily between everything I traded in I got almost 900 bucks of credit which means I'll have plenty of gaming funds for the next 2 or 3 years lol.

Still kind of sucks though but you have to do what you have to do.
 
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