Kim Kardashian's night out RUINED by attendant in BLACKFACE :biblio:

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YoungHav said:
So what was your point in pointing out Africans sold Africans? We know this.
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If his argument is anything like the Stormfront thread I read, it'll be summed up as 'black people can't really get mad about slavery when they actively participated in it.'

Or something like that, I honestly have no idea why he brought that up. I can only assume the reason is dumb as hell given the context of this thread.
 
Angelus Errare said:
If his argument is anything like the Stormfront thread I read, it'll be summed up as 'black people can't really get mad about slavery when they actively participated in it.'

Or something like that, I honestly have no idea why he brought that up. I can only assume the reason is dumb as hell given the context of this thread.
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That is what I guessed too. I would love to actually have a discussion as to why he brought that point up, but then he went ahead and said how he doesn't care what we think.
 
Angelus Errare said:
If his argument is anything like the Stormfront thread I read, it'll be summed up as 'black people can't really get mad about slavery when they actively participated in it.'

Or something like that, I honestly have no idea why he brought that up. I can only assume the reason is dumb as hell given the context of this thread.
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Africans where giving themselves practically for free who wouldn't take such a bargain.
 
DeaviL said:
As far as i know, tribes sold their prisoners to us for meager pay.
Educate me.
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Slavery was common all over the world (not a defense of it in any sense), In Africa it usually the product of tribal warfare. The concept of race-based slavery didn't exist within Africa because of the notion "anyone outside of the tribe is an outsider". The Europeans took advantage of that and traded their resources for slaves, which evolves into a "sell or be sold" mentality which further divides and stirs up tribal rivalries which repeats a cycle that has affected Africa to this day.

Kinyou said:
Is wearing a headdress really that bad? I'd think of it as indicative of a culture, not race.
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The headdress was reserved for chiefs and honorable warriors within Plains societies, its now appropriated by hipsters at EDM music-fests and the occasional celebrity. There's a reason why there's a huge backlash when some influential, non-Native American is wearing them.
 
Particle Physicist said:
Non-American ignorance about their countries history with race is always so fascinating.
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I would still argue that history is not even a requirement.
Ignoring the fact that pretty much most parts of the world have either past or present issues with race relations, mocking a race using is ok if you haven't enslaved them in the past? Cmon.

Those dutch holiday black face costumes are clearly caricaturization. Similar caricatures of other races would also be offensive. Given the dehumanization and discrimination people of African descent experience in most parts of the world (absolutely including Europe), just makes it worse.

The most ironic thing is the hypocrisy of the European Apologists in these threads. Claiming "Americans are not able to see outside of their own perspective", when it is their inability to see from outside their perspective why the caricaturization and dehumanization of such race is not only offensive but likely racist. It is not racist because I don't find it offensive shows an unbelievable inability to empathize.
 
DC R1D3R said:
you forgot the xxxl, hung like a horse penis size that woman are truly fascinated by! even to this day lol

you do know that the ancient greeks worshiped the penis (taken from the egyptian/kemetian) obelisk right?

but yes, the fact that only black men had the knowledge to acquire this type of garb proved to be a major problem for the european males. they forced women (physical punishment) not to have relations with black males!
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Lmao, you can't be serious. Are you really that dense , or just full of hate?

I hope you're just an elaborate troll. Seriously, do you even see what you're saying? Ya got it all figured out don't you? Please grow up.
 
boiled goose said:
I would still argue that history is not even a requirement.
Ignoring the fact that pretty much most parts of the world have either past or present issues with race relations, mocking a race using is ok if you haven't enslaved them in the past? Cmon.

Those dutch holiday black face costumes are clearly caricaturization. Similar caricatures of other races would also be offensive. Given the dehumanization and discrimination people of African descent experience in most parts of the world (absolutely including europe), just makes it worse.
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I just want to point out that I was being facetious with that comment. Riffing on the poster I replied to. The truth is, people everywhere (including the US) are a bit ignorant about many aspects of their countries' history with race (among other things). That is the one generalization I will make. There is ignorance everywhere and we should never back away from educating the general public. But you are right, it's not just history, but current ongoing issues as well.
 
boiled goose said:
I would still argue that history is not even a requirement.
Ignoring the fact that pretty much most parts of the world have either past or present issues with race relations, mocking a race using is ok if you haven't enslaved them in the past? Cmon.

Those dutch holiday black face costumes are clearly caricaturization. Similar caricatures of other races would also be offensive. Given the dehumanization and discrimination people of African descent experience in most parts of the world (absolutely including europe), just makes it worse.
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This.

The idea that a country can't be racist because they didn't have slavery or cotton fields has to be the dumbest argument ever put forth.
 
Particle Physicist said:
I was being facetious with that comment. Riffing on the poster I replied to. The truth is, people everywhere (including the US) are a bit ignorant about many aspects of their countries' history with race (among other things). That is the one generalization I will make. There is ignorance everywhere and we should never back away from educating the general public. But you are right, it's not just history, but current ongoing issues as well.
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I know. I was agreeing with your general sentiment.
 
Whether your intentions are malicious or not, black face is not acceptable given its history. The same way certain words are not okay. I hate when people try to act like historical factors don't matter. But they do. These things can be very hurtful to other people. So while you might claim you aren't racist or don't mean anything maliciously therefore it's okay to say the N Word or use black face, you are being extremely ignorant and insensitive given what these things mean symbolically to a lot of people.
 
Abounder said:
Good golly that's some Eurotrash shit right there. Kind of baffling to me considering we live in a globalized world
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That's my argument with regards to cultural insensitivity. Ignorance of cultures is no longer a relevant excuse.

Kim comes from a country where blackface is considered extremely offensive but yet this fool thinks it’s okay to dress up in a minstrel outfit and “imitate” her black husband.

I wasn't going to post in this thread but I had too. I wrote this in the Notes app on my Mac. Initially it was long rant but I’m pretty sure I would’ve gotten banned so I deleted 99% of it.
 
Gold_Loot said:
Lmao, you can't be serious. Are you really that dense , or just full of hate?

I hope you're just an elaborate troll. Seriously, do you even see what you're saying? Ya got it all figured out don't you? Please grow up.
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i have not made one racist comment in this thread so i can't see why the truth's hurting. just take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why?

deep breath....
 
boiled goose said:
The most ironic thing is the hypocrisy of the European Apologists in these threads. Claiming "Americans are not able to see outside of their own perspective", when it is their inability to see from outside their perspective why the caricaturization and dehumanization of such race is not only offensive but likely racist. It is not racist because I don't find it offensive shows an unbelievable inability to empathize.
Click to expand...

IGSaint said:
Europeans not realizing that this issue is more than just American history/culture whatever is fascinatingly depressing.
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Would just like to throw in that the more multicultural European societies (e.g. UK, France etc) are well aware of these issues. It's more the racially homogenised places that feel, because there aren't many minorities to say otherwise, all their race relations are fine.
 
Azula said:
Whether your intentions are malicious or not, black face is not acceptable given its history. The same way certain words are not okay. I hate when people try to act like historical factors don't matter. But they do. These things can be very hurtful to other people. So while you might claim you aren't racist or don't mean anything maliciously therefore it's okay to say the N Word or use black face, you are being extremely ignorant and insensitive given what these things mean symbolically to a lot of people.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to imagine a world where historically black people have not been oppressed and instead have been cherished, appreciated and that one country has a lovely holiday where they celebrate the awesomeness of black people by painting their faces black and wearing wigs and what not.

You know, I can't really imagine this holiday existing in that world. This type of offensive caricaturization would not happen. Once you learn about how individuals from another race are actually individuals and consider them as deserving equal treatment and respect, you don't feel comfortable caricaturing what you perceive as their race using the features you perceive as belonging to their race.
 
Zaph said:
Would just like to throw in that the more multicultural European societies (e.g. UK, France etc) are well aware of these issues. It's more the racially homogenised places that feel, because there aren't many minorities to say otherwise, all their race relations are fine.
Click to expand...

I was not claiming this is an issue specific to Europeans as a whole or some countries in particular. There was though a particular flavor of nasty apologetics coming out that needed to be addressed.

The same problems arise in America whenever we here about frats having 'Mexican' or 'Asian' themed parties and get in trouble because people show up dressed as a bunch of offensive stereotypes.

The important thing is for ALL OF US to try to think outside of our own perspective and try to make the world better and more inclusive. As humans we unfortunately lack ability to be empathetic to things we don't think affect us, so we have to constantly try hard to see when we have these biases. It not only affects race, we see it with families with gay child suddenly supporting gay rights, etc. Being empathetic and an actual critical thinker, live everything, takes practice and experience.
 
I watched the vid and saw nothing wrong...

Maybe it's the size of my phone screen,
but it didn't look like makeup...

It's talking about the guy in the white suit right?
 
The important thing is for ALL OF US to try to think outside of our own perspective and try to make the world better and more inclusive. As humans we unfortunately lack ability to be empathetic to things we don't think affect us, so we have to constantly try hard to see when we have these biases. It not only affects race, we see it with families with gay child suddenly supporting gay rights, etc. Being empathetic and an actual critical thinker, live everything, takes practice and experience.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Angelus Errare said:
If his argument is anything like the Stormfront thread I read, it'll be summed up as 'black people can't really get mad about slavery when they actively participated in it.'

Or something like that, I honestly have no idea why he brought that up. I can only assume the reason is dumb as hell given the context of this thread.
Click to expand...

I'm not gonna return to this thread so be delighted.
But i just wanted to say, screw you for equating me to freking Stormfront.

Now i'm all sorts of offended, holy shit.
 
MutFox said:
I watched the vid and saw nothing wrong...

Maybe it's the size of my phone screen,
but it didn't look like makeup...

It's talking about the guy in the white suit right?
Click to expand...

The guy is in blackface and dressed like a thug. White suit, gold chain, etc. The video is a bit grainy so it's hard to see.
 
DeaviL said:
I'm not gonna return to this thread so be delighted.
But i just wanted to say, screw you for equating me to freking Stormfront.

Now i'm all sorts of offended, holy shit.
Click to expand...

"I know I said shitty and racist things in this thread and offended countless people, but how dare you compare me to people on a forum who say shitty and racist things.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :"( "
 
boiled goose said:
I would still argue that history is not even a requirement.
Ignoring the fact that pretty much most parts of the world have either past or present issues with race relations, mocking a race using is ok if you haven't enslaved them in the past? Cmon.

Those dutch holiday black face costumes are clearly caricaturization. Similar caricatures of other races would also be offensive. Given the dehumanization and discrimination people of African descent experience in most parts of the world (absolutely including Europe), just makes it worse.

The most ironic thing is the hypocrisy of the European Apologists in these threads. Claiming "Americans are not able to see outside of their own perspective", when it is their inability to see from outside their perspective why the caricaturization and dehumanization of such race is not only offensive but likely racist. It is not racist because I don't find it offensive shows an unbelievable inability to empathize.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go as far as saying Zwarte Piet is dehumanizating, since I don't think the intent of the tradition is to mock and ridicule black people. At least I don't think that's the intent of Dutch people who cherish the tradition.

But after giving it a second thought, you guys are right. It is offensive towards black people with or without context. I think this goes beyond America's cultural policing.

Now I'm feeling like a racially insensitive piece of shit lol :(
 
MutFox said:
I watched the vid and saw nothing wrong...

Maybe it's the size of my phone screen,
but it didn't look like makeup...

It's talking about the guy in the white suit right?
Click to expand...

Definitely makeup.
A guy in a white suit painting his face black saying " hahaha look I'm black, I'm your black husband, I'm black because look I painted my face black" in an event where I saw no actual black people is not offensive? Perhaps it is because there were no black people there that nobody thought twice about whether this was actually funny or a good idea.
 
reKon said:
I'm honestly surprised mods haven't swept through this thread yet.
Click to expand...

Folks love to act up on a late weekend night/early weekend morning when mods are still recovering from their social lives. This is happy hour for morons on NeoGAF.
 
Vollume said:
Wait until you see a Robert Crumb comic, why don't you start a Twitter campaign to shame him and end his career?
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Are you saying that image is not a classic black caricature?

Also, Crumb has actually been accused of racism, here he is commenting on that:

http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1055105,00.html

HUGHES: What I want to get to is the way these images worked on people. You have been furiously accused of being a racist.

CRUMB: Yeah well, [characters like Angelfood McSpade] were just stereotypical 1920s images of big-lipped black people which actually had very little to do with real African Americans. They were cartoon stereotypes I was playing around with. All that stuff I did in the late 1960s was cartoon stereotypes. I was playing around with them in a psychedelicized way. I dunno. It's hard to explain. It's not my job to explain it.
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He even acknowledges that they are stereotypes/caricatures.
 
Kraftwerk said:
"I know I said shitty and racist things in this thread and offended countless people, but how dare you compare me to people on a forum who say shitty and racist things.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :"( "
Click to expand...

Reading courses are available, take them.
adios, because the amount of people i apparently offended will probably get me banned.
 
boiled goose said:
I'm trying to imagine a world where historically black people have not been oppressed and instead have been cherished, appreciated and that one country has a lovely holiday where they celebrate the awesomeness of black people by painting their faces black and wearing wigs and what not.

You know, I can't really imagine this holiday existing in that world. This type of offensive caricaturization would not happen. Once you learn about how individuals from another race are actually individuals and consider them as deserving equal treatment and respect, you don't feel comfortable caricaturing what you perceive as their race using the features you perceive as belonging to their race.
Click to expand...

It would be like telling a crude death joke about a parent to a party where there is someone you know just had a parent die. Sure, it's totally within your right to tell the joke. And while the joke isn't aimed at this person, you are still an asshole (insensitive) for telling it since you knew about him and his histroy. OKAY maybe that's not the best example.

But point is, things have a history and meaning. It MEANS something to people. You have the right to do it, but ignoring how it effects other people is really messed up (and at least makes you a jerk). One issue that really bugs me about racism is this:

I get it, you are from a new generation. You have been raised your entire life to NOT be racist, to not see color etc. You live in a place where this isn't that much racism, and diversity is standard. These kind of people then sometimes don't understand the depth of racism. And then these same people can start to get resentment, and feel like people are holding to the past too much. They also feel like they are being persecuted since THEY didn't cause slavery, and THEY didn't have relatives that were apart of that.

The problem with that is, well I. Racism still happens all the time today. Even if you aren't the one perpetrating it, or you don't experience it, it still happens. II. Even if in an ideal world racism was for the most part over (it isn't), do you really think that the lingering effects of racism still aren't present today? An entire people were basically forced to live in specific areas, and limited to the jobs they could get in the market. Just imagine how even white immigrants, it took their family decades to get into the middle class. You magically expect an entire people that were deprived of this, to magically have the same opportunities as your family/history when racism was still a major issue up to the 60s? Please.

History matters, as it still impacts things today. It's non-sense when you ignore that.
 
Had no idea this was still a thing. Learned about it in my Jazz class, and it was done in the 1900's so yea, kind of weird to see it.

But yea, Americans are overly sensitive when it comes to this things. I condemn any real discrimination but stereotipying can be seen as a joke or a big insult, depending on culture (Lots of black friends here, we know how to take a joke on both sides), and Americans always feel way too ofended. The guy in the vídeo was an ass.
 
There really needs to be a new list of banned topics, seriously.

I am so tired of blackface controversy, circumcision arguments, palestine v. israel redux, dog v. cat, and wacky relationship (AKA Three's Company) situation threads.

At least a new precedent was set with the requirement of photographic proof for the latter nonsense.
 
Melkr_ said:
I wouldn't go as far as saying Zwarte Piet is dehumanizating, since I don't think the intent of the tradition is to mock and ridicule black people. At least I don't think that's the intent of Dutch people who cherish the tradition.

But after giving it a second thought, you guys are right. It is offensive towards black people with or without context. I think this goes beyond America's cultural policing.

Now I'm feeling like a racially insensitive piece of shit lol :(
Click to expand...

Welcome to thinking outside of your own perspective.
I am not familiar with the holiday, but the fact that the character is depicted as a blackmoor and blackface is used is offensive sorry. What is interesting is that if it was just the soot aspect it would be more difficult and subtle, but the fact that the costume is accompanied by curly hair, red lips, etc. it makes it a no brainer. They are caricaturing people of a certain racial background by exaggerating the features they perceive as belonging to that race.

Take a picture of yourself in that costume and how it to some dark skinned or african ancestry friends and see how comfortable you are. This is always a good test to check if a comment or joke is insensitive or racist. Imagine saying it in a more diverse group.
 
Filaipus said:
Had no idea this was still a thing. Learned about it in my Jazz class, and it was done in the 1900's so yea, kind of weird to see it.

But yea, Americans are overly sensitive when it comes to this things. I condemn any real discrimination but stereotipying can be seen as a joke or a big insult, depending on culture (Lots of black friends here, we know how to take a joke on both sides), and Americans always feel way too ofended. The guy in the vídeo was an ass.
Click to expand...

Stop with the 'american get too offended about blackface' bullshit already. Tons of non-americans such as myself who are offended by this in this very thread.

Also..did you just use having black friends to justify shit like this?
 
Filaipus said:
Had no idea this was still a thing. Learned about it in my Jazz class, and it was done in the 1900's so yea, kind of weird to see it.

But yea, Americans are overly sensitive when it comes to this things. I condemn any real discrimination but stereotipying can be seen as a joke or a big insult, depending on culture (Lots of black friends here, we know how to take a joke on both sides), and Americans always feel way too ofended. The guy in the vídeo was an ass.
Click to expand...

Since when have these european countries been such a racial utopia where you can claim that people are too sensitive about gross racial caricature imagery?
 
I think I speak for most Black people across the world when I say the following:

Fuck your context.

Fuck your history.

Fuck your country.

I don't give a fuck is this were America, China, Netherlands, Mars, I don't give a fuck; racism is still racism. If someone walks up to me in blackface, I'ma lose my shit.

Seems like some of the Europeans in this thread either are just going on their daily anti-American diatribes, or they haven't been around many people of color in their lives, or haven't been paying attention to all the anti-multiculturalism/anti-immigration bullshit coming out of a significant portion of continental Europe. If y'all think racist shit only exists in America, you must have your heads so far up your dastardly carnivorous asses that you aren't even aware of the shit coming out of your own mouths.

Here's an important pro-tip for anyone who decides to enter into a conversation about racism: If you're a White person, don't try to tell any person of color what isn't racist. Truth be told, you don't have the privilege of making that distinction...
 
Kraftwerk said:
Stop with the 'american get too offended about blackface' bullshit already. Tons of non-americans such as myself who are offended by this in this very thread.

Also..did you just use having black friends to justify shit like this?
Click to expand...

But he has LOTS of black friends.
 
Azula said:
It would be like telling a crude death joke about a parent to a party where there is someone you know just had a parent die. Sure, it's totally within your right to tell the joke. And while the joke isn't aimed at this person, you are still an asshole (insensitive) for telling it since you knew about him and his histroy. OKAY maybe that's not the best example.

But point is, things have a history and meaning. It MEANS something to people. You have the right to do it, but ignoring how it effects other people is really messed up (and at least makes you a jerk). One issue that really bugs me about racism is this:

I get it, you are from a new generation. You have been raised your entire life to NOT be racist, to not see color etc. You live in a place where this isn't that much racism, and diversity is standard. These kind of people then sometimes don't understand the depth of racism. And then these same people can start to get resentment, and feel like people are holding to the past too much. They also feel like they are being persecuted since THEY didn't cause slavery, and THEY didn't have relatives that were apart of that.

The problem with that is, well I. Racism still happens all the time today. Even if you aren't the one perpetrating it, or you don't experience it, it still happens. II. Even if in an ideal world racism was for the most part over (it isn't), do you really think that the lingering effects of racism still aren't present today? An entire people were basically forced to live in specific areas, and limited to the jobs they could get in the market. Just imagine how even white immigrants, it took their family decades to get into the middle class. You magically expect an entire people that were deprived of this, to magically have the same opportunities as your family/history when racism was still a major issue up to the 60s? Please.

History matters, as it still impacts things today. It's non-sense when you ignore that.
Click to expand...

What? Are you talking to me? Did you read my posts? I don't think you quite got my point...
of course history matters.
All I was saying is that even with a different history, I'm not convinced caricaturization would ever be good, or if it would even happen.
 
This thread is an embarrassment. This was an obvious shot at Kim for her interracial marriage to Kanye. Just blatant racism from that dude.
 
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