Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!

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TharpDaddy said:
It's kinda disheartening that what should be an awesome thing that we celebrate is being torn down. I'm all for diversity, but can't we be happy that GB has new hires? Every situation and result that doesn't further diversity seems to be an avenue for attack and guilt trips now. Why does diversity overpower everything else? Sure, it'd be awesome to have more diversity, but it's coming across like you either hire a woman/minority or the result is painted as something very negative. I might just be crazy though.
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Yeah, it feels like some type of bizzaro-4chan.
 
AuthenticM said:
I'm not doing that; it should have been clear from my post.



Some people said that.
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I totally misread your position, and I do sincerely apologize. I still think it's going too far when those issues might be of more primary importance to whoever is spewing the vitriol, but your point still stands.
 
ReignofSparrows said:
B is more rhetoric than substance to me when you look at how many hires are the subject of the scrutiny.
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The reason this particular hire is the subject of scrutiny is purely because of B. As it's been pointed out, there's tons of sites that have hired minorities. Giant Bomb has never done this. Even sites with smaller staff sizes like US Gamer have women and people of color and new hires.

It's kind of weird how people can on the one hand praise the hiring of Patrick, the young kid whose style of content and gaming tastes clearly different from the rest of the site, and then on the other hand immediately assume that the hiring of a minority who Jeff isn't following on Twitter would clearly just be quota over quality and that they'd NEVER fit in with the personality of the rest of the site and it'd just be a huge disaster and
 
EmCeeGramr said:
That's not really a witty reply since I was replying to hamchan's question.

It also really ignores what a lot of people have been saying; that's there's a gross implication that a woman or minority must be less qualified by default or else there'd be more of them hired, and that "quality" is an objective thing that just happens to be majorly possessed by white men with years of experience at a major website or magazine.
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I think that

1-If the most qualified person for the job happened to be a lady I'm sure Jeff would have hired her.

2-The industry has been almost exclusivly male since the beginning. Now, thankfully, this has been changing in the last couple of years and that's great. I can see it everyday when I go to work. When I started in 2008 there was barely any women working at my studio and there's considerably more nowadays. I just think it's gonna take a while for the numbers to even out more. Especially if you're looking for a senior position.
 
Zornack said:
Logically, isn't anyone who didn't got the job less qualified than Dan? That's the logic, not that something inherent about women and minorities makes them worse, but that Jeff would logically pick the most qualified, who happens to be a white man.
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Or, and let's be realistic here, he picked a friend. Because that's just how jobs work in everything except like fast food places or Walmart.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
The reason this particular hire is the subject of scrutiny is purely because of B. As it's been pointed out, there's tons of sites that have hired minorities. Giant Bomb has never done this. Even sites with smaller staff sizes like US Gamer have women and people of color and new hires.

It's kind of weird how people can on the one hand praise the hiring of Patrick, the young kid whose style of content and gaming tastes clearly different from the rest of the site, and then on the other hand immediately assume that the hiring of a minority who Jeff isn't following on Twitter would clearly just be quota over quality and that they'd NEVER fit in with the personality of the rest of the site and it'd just be a huge disaster and
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To be fair, I assume that US Gamer's hires are also all "friends of the site" hires as well. I think very few sites straight up hire an unknown person who is an amateur.
 
firehawk12 said:
Or, and let's be realistic here, he picked a friend. Because that's just how jobs work in everything except like fast food places or Walmart.
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But a huge part of this job is being able to play off of coworkers, especially during live content. "Being a friend" might be a valid criticism in the majority of workplace hires but I don't think it fits here when such an important part of the job is getting along with the other staff.

They weren't about to hire someone they have never interacted with, were they?
 
I think the problem is that giantbomb, for all of its hires, are really just hiring industry veterans who they had connections. It was never a place to blood someone new.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
The reason this particular hire is the subject of scrutiny is purely because of B. As it's been pointed out, there's tons of sites that have hired minorities. Giant Bomb has never done this. Even sites with smaller staff sizes like US Gamer have women and people of color and new hires.

It's kind of weird how people can on the one hand praise the hiring of Patrick, the young kid whose style of content and gaming tastes clearly different from the rest of the site, and then on the other hand immediately assume that the hiring of a minority who Jeff isn't following on Twitter would clearly just be quota over quality and that they'd NEVER fit in with the personality of the rest of the site and it'd just be a huge disaster and
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As to your first point, I know this, I just think it lacks merit considering the number of hires. I don't think pointing to other small - or even smaller - sites strengthens the argument. I think it's misplaced.

As to the second point - I completely agree with you. I really hate that people are taking the criticism of the hires and thinking that people wanting a diverse hire means that it would be an unqualified candidate. It's a stupid, toxic false dichotomy.
 
Zornack said:
But a huge part of this job is being able to play off of coworkers, especially during live content. "Being a friend" might be a valid criticism in the majority of workplace hires but I don't think it fits here when such an important part of the job is getting along with the other staff.

They weren't about to hire someone they have never interacted with, where they?
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Well, presumably that's why you would have interviews and so forth. Although if interviews were held, I doubt people who didn't get the job would boast about not getting it any time soon.

But that said...
Megasoum said:
Especially for a personality driven website centered around a podcast and on camera videos.
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I completely agree with this. And in a pre-CBS world, this hire probably would have been made in private and we'd all be happy about it unconditionally.
 
Nobody is arguing that Dan isn't qualified or a great person to hire.

The point is a larger argument about what it means to "be qualified," especially in an industry where a lot of minorities may feel excluded and so purposefully stay away from mainstream outlets (which is where you're "supposed" to build qualifications), and their attempts to break into the mainstream in order to effect change can be stymied by the fact that they're not considered "the most qualified"; because they put their writing and/or speaking on a smaller alt site, personal blog, or,small convention panels, or game jams, and not one of the "real" outlets where everyone follows each other on Twitter and chats at every E3 after interviewing millionaire executives.
 
Also seeing this Dan left a relatively cushy job at gameInformer and moved states makes me believe that opening a hiring process was more or less a formality.
 
I cant imagine the qualified female applications for this job where that high.

I am trying to think of members of the games press who are experienced, video focused, actually play and can talk about games and are female and everyone that comes to mind lives in the UK.

Most of the US based female side of the industry tend to be text / written editorial based.


Maybe if they start having interns again that might be the chance for a female presence to worm its way into the crew but otherwise I think we will be waiting for a few years while the number of video focused female press members who have established themselves rises.

VisionaryQuest0 said:
Weren't people giving Giant Bomb shit for hiring Klepek a few years back? That turned out pretty damn well I think.
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I actually think everyone was pretty stoked at the idea of the guy who broke the Infinity Ward story joining Giant Bomb. Then he ruined Crono Trigger. I blame the CT ER for starting the Patrick backlash.
 
ReignofSparrows said:
As to your first point, I know this, I just think it lacks merit considering the number of hires. I don't think pointing to other small - or even smaller - sites strengthens the argument. I think it's misplaced.

As to the second point - I completely agree with you. I really hate that people are taking the criticism of the hires and thinking that people wanting a diverse hire means that it would be an unqualified candidate. It's a stupid, toxic false dichotomy.
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I think this leads to the assumption that people have about America's "Affirmative Action" programs, where people assume certain groups can only get jobs/get into universities strictly based on gender or race.

Antiwhippy said:
Also seeing this Dan left a relatively cushy job at gameInformer and moved states makes me believe that opening a hiring process was more or less a formality.
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It certainly reminds me of when Phil Kollar just up and left before Polygon launched anyway.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
A) The current system of games journalism is kind of fucked up so that "qualified" automatically translates to "established mainstream person that I've met every year at every convention, with years of experience at major mainstream outlet" which sadly means a 90% chance of "qualified" meaning "a straight white man from New York or California."
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You have a point; from a strict HR standpoint, pretty much only white or asian males (in their 30s, probably) would fulfill the experience requirement for a 'senior' position. Should they have dropped the 'senior' part of it, and allowed people of more diverse levels of experience to apply for the job? (Does anyone have a link to the job offering description?)

I mean, the Senior Editor position is pretty much for Dan Ryckert; not just any established male in games journalism. Not so sure about the Associate Producer position, other than given the way GB works it'd probably be a good idea to get someone who played well with Dan already (and likely experience doing dumb stuff counts for a lot).

B) Giant Bomb, despite being around for six years, is pretty much the only remaining major video game website that has never once hired a woman or other minority for its editorial staff.
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'Being around for six years' is kind of a weird way to put it when you're talking about a staff of 8 (7 a year ago -- 5 of which are editorial).
 
funkystudent said:
I cant imagine the qualified female applications for this job where that high.

I am trying to think of members of the games press who are experienced, video focused, actually play and can talk about games and are female and everyone that comes to mind lives in the UK.

Most of the US based female side of the industry tend to be text / written editorial based.


Maybe if they start having interns again that might be the chance for a female presence to worm its way into the crew but otherwise I think we will be waiting for a few years while the number of video focused female press members who have established themselves rises.
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Well, there are more than the fair share of female video hosts on the various youtube network/channels if that's the criteria. I guess you could make an argument about whether any of these women actually care about the games they're talking about or are just reading a script for the purposes of making a video though.

ShinoguTakeruKoeru said:
Whoa what? What happened during the Endurance Run?
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Crazy fans think they played it wrong, basically. :p

Hell, I bet Jeff and Vinny got hate for their P4 run for making wrong choices during fusions.
 
TharpDaddy said:
It's kinda disheartening that what should be an awesome thing that we celebrate is being torn down. I'm all for diversity, but can't we be happy that GB has new hires? Every situation and result that doesn't further diversity seems to be an avenue for attack and guilt trips now. Why does diversity overpower everything else? Sure, it'd be awesome to have more diversity, but it's coming across like you either hire a woman/minority or the result is painted as something very negative. I might just be crazy though.
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Thank you, someone with sense.

I don't know much about Jason but Dan seems pretty cool. I hope they do more frequent Encyclopedia Bombasticas with Dan (since he did Replay on Gameinformer).
 
Random thoughts:
-Not all white people are the same
-no love for Alexis Gallisá (Though he is involved sparingly at best)
-The dramatic flair and vitriol with which the criticism is conveyed undermines it
-there are probably even fewer minority video producers than there are minority writers in the industry
-the people GB hired seem very qualified and a very good fit (Dan at least, Jason TBD)


Just because GB isn't PAYING people for different perspectives, it doesn't mean that they are actively avoiding or suppressing them, 75% of the morning show guests fall outside of the 'white man' category. And that's where most of GB's guest-involved stuff comes from.

Overall, I accept that there is tangible value in having a diverse cast and staff, but it isn't the ONLY criteria upon which the site and its content should be judged. They make me laugh, they give good purchasing advise, and the white people they do have come from a wide range of backgrounds and have a diverse set of preferences and experiences.

Maddy Myers and Elizabeth Simins seem like two of the most dramatic people I've ever witnessed. They are the nucleus of the criticism, but if you look at their timelines, they can be pretty dismissive or offensive. One of them told someone else on twitter to stop gargling polygon's ****. They're doing a disservice to the valid core of their complaints.

But the discussion it brings up is probably one that needs to be had, in the end. I just wish it could be had without the hyperbole and vitriol.
 
I am happy for Dan and Jason. I could care less about all the politics. Congrats Dan and Jason, don't let anybody get you down (if you read this thread), and BOLIEVE!
 
Zomba13 said:
Patrick has brought the site a few hot scoops, expanded their usual content with his Worth Reading and Worth Playing segments and added a new perspective to quick looks and podcasts and panels that he was/is on.

So yeah, I'd say it did.
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Didn't he break the XBOX One DRM removal news?
 
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/gen...ryckert-and-jason-oestreicher-1488249/?page=2

Rorie said:
I'm going to make a quick comment here. We, as a staff, welcome criticism of anything we do on the site so long as it's honest and doesn't consist solely of personal attacks. I've been reading the comments that people have had about these hires for the last couple of hours, both positive and negative, here and on Twitter and in other venues. I was not personally involved in the hiring process (as I'm not an editor), so I don't feel capable of making any kind of official reply to those comments, but if you have comments or concerns about these hires your best bet would probably be to reach out to staff directly via PM or Twitter. The other thread had well over a thousand replies and I'm sure this one will have plenty as well; sifting through everything will be difficult for staff members, especially in a busy, short week. I can't guarantee that everyone will get a response but I can at least say that we appreciate the feedback.

I also want to take a moment to say that I've read a few comments from people who were upset that they didn't get a reply to their application. I've heard a few people say this, and I followed up with our HR people about this. Every applicant should've gotten a confirmation email when they applied through our careers site, but it does appear that CBSi and Brassring do not have an official policy for sending emails to applicants when a position is closed. I wasn't aware of this until a few days ago when I saw people commenting in their disappointment in not getting a reply to their application, but that's no excuse. Obviously we appreciate everyone who took the time to put together an application, and I would've loved to acknowledge those in some way. While that ship has sailed for this round of hires, I'll be working with our recruiting department to try and ensure that everyone who applies to any future positions gets at least the courtesy of a response when a position is closed. I apologize for not being on top of that with these openings.
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MadLaughter said:
-no love for Alexis Gallisá (Though he is involved sparingly at best)
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Alexis is like, bossman of design at CBSI, not really a member of giantbomb.

I do wonder if they've tried to get Carolyn Petit or any of the other gamespot women on quicklooks or live shows. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they just don't want to -- gamers can be pretty shitty, and Patrick yelling at them to stop being shitty hasn't really beared fruit so far.
 
obonicus said:
Alexis is like, bossman of design at CBSI, not really a member of giantbomb.

I do wonder if they've tried to get Carolyn Petit or any of the other gamespot women on quicklooks or live shows. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they just don't want to -- gamers can be pretty shitty, and Patrick yelling at them to stop being shitty hasn't really beared fruit so far.
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They had her on the short-lived Professional Wednesdays, and she was pretty good.
 
njean777 said:
I am happy for Dan and Jason. I could care less about all the politics. Congrats Dan and Jason, don't let anybody get you down (if you read this thread), and BOLIEVE!
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I'm sure after a month after they are settled in nobody will even remember the politics.
 
This is the sort of thing I was hoping to hear in some form or another, so it's good that they'll be clearer about that, at least.
 
Glad to have a person who will be able to break down a gameplay system mechanically and not just conceptually in Jason, this is just an assumption of one fighting game player to another though.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
That's not really a witty reply since I was replying to hamchan's question.

It also really ignores what a lot of people have been saying; that's there's a gross implication that a woman or minority must be less qualified by default or else there'd be more of them hired, and that "quality" is an objective thing that just happens to be almost entirely possessed by white men with years of experience at a major website or magazine.
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So what should they have done? What happens if the other candidates were less qualified at the moment or in the interview than the ones we got? Hire whoever hit the checklist for nationalities or gender but maybe wasn't the best qualified for the job? I think as long as they hired the senior most qualified candidate that also would fit in with the team and if that was a women or another race than great but especially with a place like Giantbomb who barely hires I don't think alot of the criticism is valid regarding the hires.
 
BTA said:
This is the sort of thing I was hoping to hear in some form or another, so it's good that they'll be clearer about that, at least.
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Which is kind of crazy though. Most of the time if a website hires someone most people really wouldn't bat an eyelid. Shows how intimate they are with their audience.
 
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