fvng
Member
Haven't played Heavy Rain since its release but Beyond had pretty great acting, and it was a beautiful game as well aesthetically. I remember some unintentional laughs in Heavy Rain, but there were barely any in Beyond
David Cage's games get attacked for "no gameplay" yet LucasArts games are worshipped
- Thread starter fvng
- Start date
Haven't played Heavy Rain since its release but Beyond had pretty great acting, and it was a beautiful game as well aesthetically. I remember some unintentional laughs in Heavy Rain, but there were barely any in Beyond
I guess everything is good then.
This is wrong because The Room was thoroughly entertaining throughout.
fvng
Member
Played it in 91, loved the series, read the original post
what? I never said LucasArts fans should shoulder the blame. Jesus Christ. This thread is targeted at a specific segment of adventure game fans (ones that dislike cage's games) this wasn't targeted at all Adventure or LucasArts fans.
Freeman
Banned
I allays noticed the same thing, they pretty much reinvented the adventure game without getting any credit, while The Walking Dead gets all the praise. At the very least it should be noted that they kept doing adventure games with big production even when that was out of fashion.
The best parts of Quantic Dream games are usually excellent, but the scrip always betrays their efforts and their games turn out to be very inconsistent. They do a lot right but they always end up not delivering at the most important aspect of their games.
The hate is probably a side effect of console wars, if if was multiplataform it would get much less hate.
I love Lucas Arts games but a big part of the puzzle aspect of those games sucked.
The best parts of Quantic Dream games are usually excellent, but the scrip always betrays their efforts and their games turn out to be very inconsistent. They do a lot right but they always end up not delivering at the most important aspect of their games.
The hate is probably a side effect of console wars, if if was multiplataform it would get much less hate.
I love Lucas Arts games but a big part of the puzzle aspect of those games sucked.
Beyond tried to sell the whole Native American ghosts in the deserts thing and while it's slightly better than the usual faire, my history with David Cage informs me as I play so the whole thing feels like yet another silly diversion in a Quantic Dream game.
If you're won over by broad melodramatic acting, you must be easily pleased.
fvng
Member
good lord man read the original post. There is a character limit on thread titles which is why the body of the post elaborates and clarifies the title. Classic GAF though, read the headline, skip everything else
True, and it seems like just the name 'David Cage' elicits anger from gamers, I feel bad for the guy because he's making sincere attempts at trying out new things with the medium and he gets better with each game.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Oh, and puzzles. Seems like you kinda forgot about them. Weird.
To Far Away Times
Member
David Cage's games are shit from top to bottom. While the story is thoroughly shitty, other aspects such as animation and gameplay are notoriously shit in his games too.
Sure, the Lucasarts games aren't sold on the strength of their gameplay. But they are well written, funny, and charming.
The similarities end with the games being adventure games.
Sure, the Lucasarts games aren't sold on the strength of their gameplay. But they are well written, funny, and charming.
The similarities end with the games being adventure games.
I really doubt that, if they were multiplatform it would just mean there'd be more people being critical of them.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Alright then.
Matching input commands on screen is probably more enjoyable than clicking on objects with little to no context. I guess David Cage games are unfairly compared against classic adventure games.
Dude, we can't talk about the puzzles. Sssssh.
Freeman
Banned
I mean the hate about trying to be cinematic, we see it everyday here with games like The Order and Uncharted while The Walking Dead for example gets ignored.
On the script side of things I think there is no denying that if their games are going to be so focus on narrative they should have better stories.
Due to the nature of their games I think it would be cool if they worked on shorter (an cheaper) games and tried to diversify the kind of stories they are telling.
OP, I was hoping you'd reply to my post where I asked you to clarify what you meant. Lots of people seem to be misunderstanding you (me included), and now you're just fighting silly battles with individual posters. That won't help you turn this thread around.
I hope you'll consider replying to my previous post.
I hope you'll consider replying to my previous post.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Indigo Prophecy was a laughing stock long before Heavy Rain was a PS exclusive so the whole "it's because it's exclusive!" defense is meaningless.
fvng
Member
My memory on this is hazy on this because I haven't played it in years but aren't the police officer segments of Heavy Rain somewhat puzzle based (investigating crime scenes, using that futuristic tool to create an office anywhere)..
Questioning NPCs with different dialogue options for information wasn't uncommon in 90s adventure games.. (flashback to gabriel knight, etc)
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
One could also argue that if his games where multiplat nobody actually gave a shit about them and that people only like them cause they are on "their" console
(That's not my opinion, just saying this works for both sides)
How many actual puzzles do you solve in Heavy Rain? Just because old adventure games also had dialog doesn't mean that this is the same thing...
this was just the pixel hunt part of an adventure game, not the puzzle part
Neuromancer
Member
Debateable. For my money the opening scene of Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit (the murder at the diner and subsequent investigation) was the best David Cage has ever done, and it's been a long downhill slide since then.
Arc Christelle
Member
Visual Novels/Adventure Games need puzzles to get a pass. Obstacles the player must use their mind to overcome and whatnot. It's one of the reasons I liked the Kyle Hyde games, Zero Escape series, and Ghost Trick and also Shenmue. Interaction and puzzle solving is the key for these types of entries.
Two things:
1. Just because you say this doesn't make it true. I'm struggling to remember poor VO in Grim Fandango, or plot holes, or crappy backstories.
2. Even if I stipulate that every game has some of these things, this is such a reductionist argument. Does every game have problems? Yes, but not every game has them to the extent of David Cage's games. Heavy Rain has terrible voice over, a crazy number of plot holes, and very limited gameplay. Additionally, the story is just terribly executed on a number of levels.
fvng
Member
oh right this totally proves Beyond had subpar aesthetics.
yeah debatable.. I feel he's gotten better with every game. Beyond feels like a more focused game and yes puzzles or game over screens would have been welcomed
GravityMan
Member
LucasArts games are in a different genre than Cage's games. It's asinine to even compare them.
The best thing David Cage has ever done is the basketball game where you settle the score with Jeffery for $200.
The Spoony Hou
Member
I've never played Cage's games, so I can't really say, but from what I see they look more like Dragon's Lair. Do you even have an inventory in those games?
Lucasarts games require lots of exploration and puzzle solving, and they do it well.
Lucasarts games require lots of exploration and puzzle solving, and they do it well.
Freeman
Banned
Are they?
True. But I remember the "consensus" of Fahrenheit being that it was a very interesting and good game up until the point the games takes a turn and become completely insane due to poor writing.
Man, that scene was really great. I played that demo something like ten times, and bought the game as soon as it was released just because of that scene. I never even finished the game because I lost interest so quickly, but that scene is great.
Edit:
As a quick explanation of what made this scene so great: it felt full of possibilities and choices. It was short and self contained, but you felt real agency and consequence to your actions. There were so many little choices you could make along the way, and seeing the results of the choices you made during the cleanup when you came in for the investigation was awesome. Additionally, it was a great setup for a game, and presented the player with so many questions about the character they were playing.
My memory on this is hazy on this because I haven't played it in years but aren't the police officer segments of Heavy Rain somewhat puzzle based (investigating crime scenes, using that futuristic tool to create an office anywhere)..
Questioning NPCs with different dialogue options for information wasn't uncommon in 90s adventure games.. (flashback to gabriel knight, etc)
These parts were literally you collecting clues by walking around. They don't require any thought.
The fuck? Got a link?
OP does not state you play MI.
sure, why not
I don't think so. Comparing the classic Lucas games to Heavy Rain et al is like comparing classic Simpsons to the last season of Lost.
One has wit, heart and endearing characters. The other is a po-faced mess that most people find impossible to take seriously.
You could say Beyond even offers two souls.
fvng
Member
Same, I feel like I'm more forgiving of Cage's games because I grew up on a nice diet of LucasArts and Sierra games..
Yes, I had to make some concessions with the lack of puzzles in Cage's games I was fine with it because he was doing interesting things with the adventure game genre when it was on life support.
Figured that was implied, so let me make it clear, I owned and finished every LucasArts game, except for Maniac Mansion, but that wasn't necessary to enjoy DotT thankfully. (Maniac Mansion was included as an easter egg in DotT, but I still didn't get around to it)
Beyond had a great storyline, what the hell GAF. I feel like at this point people are knee jerk calling Cage's games bad without having played them. I remember the official GAF thread for Beyond was mostly positive too, which makes the criticisms here seem out of touch.
This is a game in which Ellen Page plays a supernatural hobo commando.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
The first two thirds of Fahrenheit were actually really good story-wise. Then...I don't know what happened after that. Maybe whoever wrote it discovered acid.
Freeman
Banned
Please explain how they are not adventure games.
fvng
Member
so you've made a gross oversimplification based on promotional images yes?
I don't think there is inherently more translation going on in my mind between a Music game and a QTE prompt in Shenmue, as an example. A big, green circle on the screen with an A on it still needs to be translated into me pressing the bottom button with my thumb, just as a falling red brick on the left side of the screen in rockband still needs to be translated into me squeezing my index finger on the fret. Mechanically, they're similar.
The difference comes in predictability. The QTEs in shenmue weren't really random, you were never jamming A to have Ryo jump out of the way. Typically, the QTE prompts on screen matched an expected action. I.E. a motocycle is racing towards me, and I clearly need to jump to my left to get out of it. The QTE would be a left arrow in that case. The ability to actually read the scene helped make shenmue's QTE much more enjoyable than poor imitations in contemporary games. For example, you always knew when a QTE was coming in shenmue, because the same music would play in virtually every QTE scene. This ability to predict and need to read the situation is precisely why the infamous un-QTE scene from Shenmue II was so mind blowing.
I would say that these distinctions are what defines "good" and "bad" QTEs, though. I think you agree with my basic premise, however, in that a mechanic should be judged by what it is, not what it should be. Meaning it's not necessarily fair to call a game bad because it uses QTEs where you'd prefer straight up action. It'd be more accurate to say you don't prefer that choice, but the quality of the mechanic shouldn't be compared to some entirely different expectation.
Hobo with a Ghostgun
???
What on earth are you talking about? I was replying to this person's post claiming there were no unintentional laughs in Beyond.
That's why I posted the picture. Nobody was even talking about aesthetics.
Neuromancer
Member
It was such a unique set up as the decisions you made while hurriedly cleaning up after your crime had a direct impact in the next scene, where you play a detective going through all the evidence you left behind as the other character. It was brilliantly conceived and executed. After playing the demo I imagined the whole rest of the game would be like that, sadly it was not to be.
Yeah, like using a monkey on machine panel.
Freeman
Banned
They play extremely similar to Telltale games? They share a lot of the same mechanics?