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[Rouke]

As far as I see, the girls have become a huge red herring. I'm not even interested in the game, but censorship is a huge insult to the work. I've always felt that you either do it right, or don't bother. NISA shouldn't have bothered if they were going to do this. They refused to do the first, and they should have just passed it along to someone else if they felt like this. As for all this negative emotion, it comes off as extremely unprofessional. From the staff of NISA, to the moderation of this forum. Not liking something isn't a reason to lock a thread, and making a scene completely fogging in case it might offend someone doesn't work either.

Shutting out discussion by accusing anyone who is against this by saying that they're pedophiles is extremely infantile. I know this is a private forum, but I am still extremely disappointed about this. Sure, you can look into my profile and claim I hardly ever post, but I do lurk. For a site that allows gamers to mingle with the industry, I'd hope there would be a voice against censorship. What a disappointment. This is really no different than when Jack Thompson attacked video games for making kids violent, but now everyone supports it because instead of kids, it's kids.

As for NISA, again, they should have passed it up. They obviously don't have the maturity to tackle this. They can't say "You don't know what you want. I know what you want". If I don't want it, I won't buy it. Simple as that. If you don't like the discussion, pass it up. If this is my last message on this board, so be it.

 

[benjipwns]

Who cares if pedophilia has been around for a long time?

If something has been around forever you can't get rid of it, and it needs to be maintained, supported and promoted. Everyone knows that. I thought we were having a serious conversation here.

 

[Jintor]

don't think the red mage was anything sexual. It was more than he was literally drugging them up and taking their power/status. IIRC.

Old Sage was the only real issue. Ringabel and Edea were fine considering they were around the same age.

As I recall there was a tonne of implication that Red Mage was basically a date rapist.

 

[Yuuichi]

READ. THIS.

http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/

Incredibly interesting read, even if it lacked professionalism at some points regarding the authors views of marginalized cultures, which does, to a degree, make me question its verity.

 

[Ragingnight]

As I recall there was a tonne of implication that Red Mage was basically a date rapist.

I think you could take it that way. but the more you played it was definitely from the tone that he "date rape" them but there was no rape. He would just drug them and take their shit. He was a literal gold digger

 

[chickdigger802]

so what is the actual gameplay of criminal girls? Is it a rpg?

Whats the reason why that pedo vita card game is allowed vs this?

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Can we talk about how utterly tasteless the Agnes bikini DLC is and how it undermines the character and betrays a lack of respect for their own work? Ooh yes please lets

That would requiere having the same standards that you have. I think that is a potential dissonance that you should consider even if you feel is a wrong one.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I think if the characters are younger than fifteen or sixteen or so, and you can reasonably assume that more than two or three people will be using whatever you're posting as spank material, then you probably shouldn't be posting it.

people make tlou porn of ellie but nobody is calling for the game to be banned due to violence or sexualization

 

[Krejlooc]

As far as I see, the girls have become a huge red herring. I'm not even interested in the game, but censorship is a huge insult to the work. I've always felt that you either do it right, or don't bother. NISA shouldn't have bothered if they were going to do this. They refused to do the first, and they should have just passed it along to someone else if they felt like this. As for all this negative emotion, it comes off as extremely unprofessional. From the staff of NISA, to the moderation of this forum. Not liking something isn't a reason to lock a thread, and making a scene completely fogging in case it might offend someone doesn't work either.

Shutting out discussion by accusing anyone who is against this by saying that they're pedophiles is extremely infantile. I know this is a private forum, but I am still extremely disappointed about this. Sure, you can look into my profile and claim I hardly ever post, but I do lurk. For a site that allows gamers to mingle with the industry, I'd hope there would be a voice against censorship. What a disappointment. This is really no different than when Jack Thompson attacked video games for making kids violent, but now everyone supports it because instead of kids, it's kids.

As for NISA, again, they should have passed it up. They obviously don't have the maturity to tackle this. They can't say "You don't know what you want. I know what you want". If I don't want it, I won't buy it. Simple as that. If you don't like the discussion, pass it up. If this is my last message on this board, so be it.

Vote Ron Paul!

 

[Settin]

I know but you're still wrong about "ad hominem" and you're wrong to think that an argument deserves intellectual rigor just because you've advanced it.

*shrug* we won't agree, lets's move on because there's nothing to gained now.

 

[RurouniZel]

Do most anime games involve sexually abusing kids?

No.

But people will accuse them of it anyway or that "those" games could only possibly appeal to that demographic anyway because that's apparently the only reason anyone would like an anime designed game.

 

[Brakke]

If something has been around forever you can't get rid of it, and it needs to be maintained, supported and promoted. Everyone knows that. I thought we were having a serious conversation here.

Good tag quote. Must maintain the integrity of that hymen. Forever.

 

[Armaros]

As far as I see, the girls have become a huge red herring. I'm not even interested in the game, but censorship is a huge insult to the work. I've always felt that you either do it right, or don't bother. NISA shouldn't have bothered if they were going to do this. They refused to do the first, and they should have just passed it along to someone else if they felt like this. As for all this negative emotion, it comes off as extremely unprofessional. From the staff of NISA, to the moderation of this forum. Not liking something isn't a reason to lock a thread, and making a scene completely fogging in case it might offend someone doesn't work either.

Shutting out discussion by accusing anyone who is against this by saying that they're pedophiles is extremely infantile. I know this is a private forum, but I am still extremely disappointed about this. Sure, you can look into my profile and claim I hardly ever post, but I do lurk. For a site that allows gamers to mingle with the industry, I'd hope there would be a voice against censorship. What a disappointment. This is really no different than when Jack Thompson attacked video games for making kids violent, but now everyone supports it because instead of kids, it's kids.

As for NISA, again, they should have passed it up. They obviously don't have the maturity to tackle this. They can't say "You don't know what you want. I know what you want". If I don't want it, I won't buy it. Simple as that. If you don't like the discussion, pass it up. If this is my last message on this board, so be it.

Thats a false equivalence if i have ever seen one.

 

[Jintor]

I think you could take it that way. but the more you played it was definitely from the tone that he "date rape" them but there was no rape. He would just drug them and take their shit. He was a literal gold digger

hmm, i never got that impression. Of course he was a general creepster anyway so it was pretty easy to jump to the conclusion that he was bangin' em too.

 

[Rouke]

Vote Ron Paul!

Vote for Nobody, Nobody tells the truth, Nobody does what he's supposed to do

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

Those peeps are already too far gone by that point. I'm mainly focusing on those that aren't completely lost. Intense deviant sexual desires need an outlet. Some way that doesn't harm another living creature.

I'd rather they jack it to a 1000 year old dragon or a crude depiction of a goat than go out and harm another living creature. It has nothing to do with feeling empathy for them and everything with trying to keep their demons in check. If that means drawn images? Ok. If that means therapy? Good for them.

Because if you harm a child you are nothing. You don't help humanity and you honestly have no purpose existing. Some pedophiles don't think they hurt children. Speaking as a victim of "love" you do. Every. Single. Time. Without question.

And yet instead of hate I feel pity. I've started to veer into soul-searching and truth telling territory so I'll wrap it up. As long as no one is being hurt, abused, or damaged by it I can't come down on the side of ban. It's disgusting material. That much I know for certain.

edit: And again that has nothing to do with discussion here. That's up to the moderation. Always has been.

The question arises if illustrated naked children are outlets for pedophiles or simply a stepping stone to the real deal.

People say that it's healthy to let off steam on a punching bag, but studies have shown that using violence to let off steam tells the brain to do violence to let off steam. The brain doesn't give a shit if it's a punching bag or a person. I'm just curious if this is true for pedophiles and porn as well.

Will VR help pedophiles keep it in their pants, or will it reinforce and reinvigorate their lust?

edit- oh shit you're right, this has nothing to do with the thread. Move along folks >.>

 

[Krejlooc]

Incredibly interesting read, even if it lacked professionalism at some points regarding the authors views of marginalized cultures, which does, to a degree, make me question its verity.

Regardless of the Author's views on marginalized culture, his claims are well sourced and valid. If you question it's verity, it's because you're mixing your opinion about the author with his facts.

Vote for Nobody, Nobody tells the truth, Nobody does what he's supposed to do

Damn, I got out done by the real thing.

 

[Ponn]

Who cares if pedophilia has been around for a long time? That's irrelevant. Childhood exposure to sexual acts/depicted sexual acts is known to influence their behavior as adults. This is why I get quite annoyed with threads like this even as someone who enjoys porn. It's like people love to be willfully ignorant of the possible exposure to minors and its detrimental effects.

Thats a pretty broad generalization. Keep in mind we are specifically talking about these type of pedo games, so my remark about Pedophilia being around for a long time DOES have a point unless you are trying to segway this into a different discussion.

When you say "exposed to sexual acts' what exactly do you mean? Do you mean they saw Porky's? Do you mean they watched porno on a blurred TV while their parents were out or do you mean they were molested? That covers alot of different things by saying that. I would agree that molestation during a young age certainly has an affect on a persons psyche in this regard. My bigger question is what is going on in the household were a young child would be exposed to these type of games and has there even been any type of research in regards to the effect of something like that, or are you going entirely on emotion and conjecture?

Like I said before, I don't think a forum like GAF would produce any kind of productive discussion on that particular topic because of the taboo and emotions that run hot in the subject. And I doubt we would get any valid research out of the subject, mental issues are already grossly underfunded and looked at by society as is.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Something being acceptable to own and enjoy in privacy does not make it suitable for all public fora, just like it's legal for someone to go to town on their spouse in their bedroom but not at the park.

That's true, but sexualizing children is not ok to own or enjoy in privacy, as evidenced by the child pornography laws around the world, and yet this and other similar games are ok for people to enjoy. Not a single country or organized body which I'm aware of has deemed any of this content to be of a nature that sexualizes children. NeoGAF is obviously free to impose whatever rules it sees fit beyond those that are enforced by the law, and that's fine, but doing so on the grounds that it sexualizes children is a bit disingenuos, since seemingly not a single governing body has agreed with this stance. I mean in the most commonly used image example of how this game is pedophilic, the damn thing has animal ears. Is anyone actually thinking of an physical child when they view this? It's more like an "ageless something" to me.

I just keep seeing post after post of how this is depecting sexual abuse of children. So forget about the ESRB, why aren't people getting arrested? And if the answer is "because it's not the same thing", then my response is "exactly".

 

[Yuuichi]

people make tlou porn of ellie but nobody is calling for the game to be banned due to violence or sexualization

Sure rule 34 exists, but the discussion is about the content of the game itself, not what the fanbase chooses to create. And we've already had the discussion on the varied reactions between violence and sexualization, so no need to repeat that.

 

[wsoxfan1214]

Shame free speech is being censored. smh

You are not entitled to free speech on an internet forum and especially not when it involves subject matter like this game contains.

 

[Rouke]

Thats a false equivalence if i have ever seen one.

Humor me. Why do you think that?

 

[MormaPope]

Spoiler

Dojima gives you permission to marry her when she's older.

~

I don't understand why discussion of the game should be banned if Sony is fine with it being released in the west. People who find the content questionable can just not post in the topics. I don't want to play Criminal Girls at all because the gameplay is pretty generic and I'm tired of these Vita RPGs having no battle animations but I don't want discussion to be banned.

The real problem here is that people go into these topics, call everyone a pedophile, and then leave. I think that's what needs to be banned. It doesn't even need to be a permanent one. It makes it really difficult to have discussions about niche games on GAF. If GAF is only supposed to be a place for discussing mainstream gaming that is OK. I'd just like it to be clear.

Oh please.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

So for example, there was a game called "No, Thank You!!!" just recently announced for a North American English release for the PC. It's a gay themed VN featuring adult characters, but it also includes sex scenes. As long as no pictures of the adult content were posted, and the discussion wasn't based around the explicit details of the sexual content, would a discussion topic/OT for the game be allowed?

I would totally understand if it wasn't, but if it was, I would like to be able to talk about it here, because this is a safe space to do so without it turning into some pariah topic, where you have to defend the very existance of a game not made with straight male gamers in mind.

I'd be fine with a discussion of that game, with the caveat that it's heavily moderated to ensure no explicit content. Give me a shout via PM and we can set something up if you like.


Backseat modding makes baby Jesus cry

How about you go through this thread first before spouting triteness.

 

[L Thammy]

people make tlou porn of ellie but nobody is calling for the game to be banned due to violence or sexualization

And I've seen porn of bread and Mountain Dew. If that's not what you're posting and that's not what you're posting about, why would that be an issue?

It's pretty damn obvious when a game deliberately makes its characters into masturbatory material.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I'm the first person to think GAF as a conglomerate are some of the friendliest and like-minded people on here. I'm not here to make snarky accusations. I literally, and non-sarcastically because the internet is weird like that, didn't know what you said and made a disclaimer, because I didn't want to claim you did vertain things. I still don't know you're stance, so please clarify.


Doujin just means like fan-manga right? We're talking sexually punishing drawn little girls while you are complimented on how well of a job you've done in sexually molesting them.

Is difficult to beleieve that you want to have a dialogue when you are keeping doing loaded questions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

"Have you stopped beating your wife?"

 

[AniHawk]

As far as I see, the girls have become a huge red herring. I'm not even interested in the game, but censorship is a huge insult to the work. I've always felt that you either do it right, or don't bother. NISA shouldn't have bothered if they were going to do this. They refused to do the first, and they should have just passed it along to someone else if they felt like this. As for all this negative emotion, it comes off as extremely unprofessional. From the staff of NISA, to the moderation of this forum. Not liking something isn't a reason to lock a thread, and making a scene completely fogging in case it might offend someone doesn't work either.

censorship isn't the greatest evil to the world. it can be bad, but it's not some inherently wrong thing. i'd say there are many worse things, like sexual abuse of underage girls. and by arguing that this one thing is the worst thing to happen does put the person making the argument in the position of saying that censorship is at least worst than the thing being censored, no matter how indefensible it is or should be.

 

[Ponn]

If something has been around forever you can't get rid of it, and it needs to be maintained, supported and promoted. Everyone knows that. I thought we were having a serious conversation here.

How many people were completely cured of the disease Pedophilia? Oh wait, better to make a snarky remark and sweep it under the rug and hope and pray it doesn't happen to someone you know.

 

[DVCY201]

Sooo you guys are saying I shouldn't post that LTTP: Bible Black thread? Damn.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

well if she agreed to the punishment i don't see the big deal tbh

You can't be serious

people make tlou porn of ellie but nobody is calling for the game to be banned due to violence or sexualization

Every franchise in every form of media would be banned if rule 34 had any effect on anything. We're talking about developers creating this game with the purpose of showcasing little girls in sexual situations.

 

[Devolution]

Obviously this genre/fanservice/game type needs a special segment done by Anita.

 

[JDSN]

As far as I see, the girls have become a huge red herring. I'm not even interested in the game, but censorship is a huge insult to the work. I've always felt that you either do it right, or don't bother. NISA shouldn't have bothered if they were going to do this. They refused to do the first, and they should have just passed it along to someone else if they felt like this. As for all this negative emotion, it comes off as extremely unprofessional. From the staff of NISA, to the moderation of this forum. Not liking something isn't a reason to lock a thread, and making a scene completely fogging in case it might offend someone doesn't work either.

Shutting out discussion by accusing anyone who is against this by saying that they're pedophiles is extremely infantile. I know this is a private forum, but I am still extremely disappointed about this. Sure, you can look into my profile and claim I hardly ever post, but I do lurk. For a site that allows gamers to mingle with the industry, I'd hope there would be a voice against censorship. What a disappointment. This is really no different than when Jack Thompson attacked video games for making kids violent, but now everyone supports it because instead of kids, it's kids.

As for NISA, again, they should have passed it up. They obviously don't have the maturity to tackle this. They can't say "You don't know what you want. I know what you want". If I don't want it, I won't buy it. Simple as that. If you don't like the discussion, pass it up. If this is my last message on this board, so be it.

I dont think nobody is saying that anyone against the ban is a pedophile, the administrator made the (correct) choice to not let something so fucking vile permeate into this kind of boards and its his right just as its your right to complain about it in the way you think its correct, the discussion about this remains open for a reason. Censorship is not always a bad thing, as you seem to believe by comparing avoiding talking about a game about molesting girls on a message board to a nation-wide ban on certain products of a vast entertainment industry.

 

[Ragingnight]

hmm, i never got that impression. Of course he was a general creepster anyway so it was pretty easy to jump to the conclusion that he was bangin' em too.

I mean I see why you would see it that way. Its not hard to jump to conclusions and the game I left it open to interpretation. Either way that still wasn't that bad. I mean o god bad guy doing bad things! (not saying you're saying that)

Criminal girls is obviously a niche within a niche. I mean there is underage characters, and there are underage characters that are created for pure serialization. There are anime characters that I like that are underage but its nothing sexual. I like huke art and he is the guy who did Steins;gate and Black Rock Shooter. 2 of the main characters in BRS are like schoolgirls age with a bra and booty shorts.

I see nothing sexual about that.

 

[Yuuichi]

Regardless of the Author's views on marginalized culture, his claims are well sourced and valid. If you question it's verity, it's because you're mixing your opinion about the author with his facts.

The point of true journalism is to retain a neutral standpoint while presenting factual information, and any deviation from that sets of automatic alarms in my head, because, believe it or not, sometimes people just do go on the internet and tell lies.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Game probably plays like shit

 

[Vylash]

Do most anime games involve sexually abusing kids?

Nope, but gamer ignorance will let them think that

 

[Crash Station]

I don't know what a shotacon is, and since lolis are literally just animated versions of underage-girls/underage-looking-girls, I can't see how there isn't a connection. Once again, using lolis as 'material' can be seen as illegal in some areas (ie. my area), and one should get help if they want to stop those urges.

Anyone who thinks sexual abuse of children is A-OK drawn or real is nothing to me. If you have an honest problem, go seek help, it's widely available, and I'll support anyone who goes and does that. If one thinks instead that using this material to get off to one's pedophilic desires is something that is your choice and is better than therapy, I think that person is disgusting.

Shotacon is the male equivalent.

I'm not saying there isn't a connection, just that the connection might not be as clear-cut as people think. People can enjoy simulated rape porn without being attracted to actual rape. The line is blurred when we're talking about fiction, and it's blurred even further when we're talking about art. Attraction within drawings does not always correlate with a real world equivalent.

Of course there a lack of studies on the subject, but the few that have been conducted have mostly come to this conclusion. Not to say it's healthy or anything, as those same studies have mostly concluded an attraction to such things represents a disconnect from reality. Probably not as bad as pedophilia though.

 

[JordanN]

Different market.

Different laws.

Different values.

Different views on sex in some cases, though the U.S. tried its best to change that.

The important thing is to not think of yourself as the norm, and then things in other places make more sense.

Personally, I find porn that advertises their actresses as barely 18 to be pedophilic. "Got them as young as they come", etc.

The lowest age of consent in Japan is 13. Just about every character in Criminal Girls looks waaaaaaaaay younger than that.

Even by Japan's standards, this game should be considered weird or not made.

I get all countries have different morals but it all feels contradicting.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Sure rule 34 exists, but the discussion is about the content of the game itself, not what the fanbase chooses to create. And we've already had the discussion on the varied reactions between violence and sexualization, so no need to repeat that.

I wish this was a universal belief for everything, but alas.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

As far as I see, the girls have become a huge red herring. I'm not even interested in the game, but censorship is a huge insult to the work. I've always felt that you either do it right, or don't bother. NISA shouldn't have bothered if they were going to do this. They refused to do the first, and they should have just passed it along to someone else if they felt like this. As for all this negative emotion, it comes off as extremely unprofessional. From the staff of NISA, to the moderation of this forum. Not liking something isn't a reason to lock a thread, and making a scene completely fogging in case it might offend someone doesn't work either.

Shutting out discussion by accusing anyone who is against this by saying that they're pedophiles is extremely infantile. I know this is a private forum, but I am still extremely disappointed about this. Sure, you can look into my profile and claim I hardly ever post, but I do lurk. For a site that allows gamers to mingle with the industry, I'd hope there would be a voice against censorship. What a disappointment. This is really no different than when Jack Thompson attacked video games for making kids violent, but now everyone supports it because instead of kids, it's kids.

As for NISA, again, they should have passed it up. They obviously don't have the maturity to tackle this. They can't say "You don't know what you want. I know what you want". If I don't want it, I won't buy it. Simple as that. If you don't like the discussion, pass it up. If this is my last message on this board, so be it.

Taking the pedophile argument out of it, it seems like there's literally no way to properly talk about the game before it immediately goes down into NSFW territory, which GAF isn't (supposed) to be. Banning threads on the game following those forum guidelines is completely justified and within the mod's rights, which I think even people into loli porn would have to agree with.

If it was the same exact content but with realistic adult women instead, threads would still likely wouldn't make it that much farther IMO. I just don't think porn game discussion is something I absolutely have to go to GAF for if I ever inexplicably wanted to talk about it instead of jerking to it.

 

[Neiteio]

GAF, stop being interesting, I'm on deadline

 

[Infinite]

Incredibly interesting read, even if it lacked professionalism at some points regarding the authors views of marginalized cultures, which does, to a degree, make me question its verity.

This guy is legit. Used his work to write a paper about otaku culture as an undergrad.

 

[DOWN]

At least this means Bioware threads will be locked for the very same reason. Their games are no better than those pervy and badly written Japanese games.

Praying this is sarcasm. At worst, BioWare has PG-13 summer movie sexuality. Common sense says why their games don't get the same reception as Japanese sexualization here.

 

[MormaPope]

Obviously this genre/fanservice/game type needs a special segment done by Anita.

Eh, its not like its hard to see the objectification and oddness. Nothing is really deep seated when it comes to the content and the intention of the content.

Would be a waste of her time.

 

[Settin]

GAF, stop being interesting, I'm on deadline

Video games are a TV thing with megapixels and memory, go be productive.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I dont think nobody is saying that anyone against the ban is a pedophile, the administrator made the (correct) choice to not let something so fucking vile permeate into this kind of boards and its his right just as its just right to complain about it in the way you think its correct, the discussion about this remains open for a reason.

I can agree with that.

 

[Brakke]

Sure rule 34 exists, but the discussion is about the content of the game itself, not what the fanbase chooses to create. And we've already had the discussion on the varied reactions between violence and sexualization, so no need to repeat that.

free nudes is just joshing tots.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Honestly, none of this is going to change the mods mind and the slippery slope arguments and hyperbole don't really help your cause (yet many of you persist). You guys should just take the L and move on to another loligame and call it a day. The threads all tend to end the same anyway, someone makes an OT; people start saying all kinds of crazy shit and the thread is shut by page 2. I mean really I'm still shocked people were able to get that Animal Crossing thread closed...it's fucking Animal Crossing!

 

[NewGame]

Honestly some of the discussions that go on GAF are quite distressing when it's some weird Japanese dating game.

I think that obscene or graphic games should be allowed discussion but promotion or encouragement?

 

[Yuuichi]

This guy is legit. Used his work to write a paper about otaku culture as an undergrad.

I never said it wasn't, as it seems well sourced, but the fact his opinions bleed in to the article still harms its professionalism.

 

[Jintor]

The point of true journalism is to retain a neutral standpoint while presenting factual information, and any deviation from that sets of automatic alarms in my head, because, believe it or not, sometimes people just do go on the internet and tell lies.

This is offtopic, but I've become increasingly credulous about this 'rational, objective' form of true journalism because a neutral standpoint simply doesn't exist - the simple omission or decision as to what is relevant or irrelevant for an article ensures that the author's viewpoint is always being pushed, no matter what a subject is about or how objective the writing style.

Still, it makes for good looking copy, I'll allow that much.