more here http://www.france24.com/en/20140720-egyptian-media-applauds-israel-gaza-offensive/
like i told u before... why the hell dose Hamas need to accept the ceasefire from them.
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2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]
- Thread starter L0st Id3ntity
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more here http://www.france24.com/en/20140720-egyptian-media-applauds-israel-gaza-offensive/
like i told u before... why the hell dose Hamas need to accept the ceasefire from them.
I'm not entirely convinced that it's a simple matter of religious fanaticism though. Tribal aggression and control of land would seem to me to be a main motivator. Religion is often used as a tool to justify acts of violence while the true reasons are much more mundane.
yeah cuz Hamas was hiding in this family building
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121965370&postcount=1253
wait hear this
https://twitter.com/MohammedYIsmail/status/491193985856053248
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/491197924219449344
I don't know if anyone cares, but I photographed some of the daily german newspapers.
Leftwing newspaper taz has the conflict as top topic
The Hamburger Abendblatt has an article of an more or less famous muslim who made some speech related to the palestine conflict at the mainstation, with AFD (rightwing, anti-europe party) members trying to disrupt him with megaphones.
Populist boulevard magazin BILD (it's germanys Sun) has just the Ukrain conflict with nothing of palestine
And the Morgenpost just gave up completely about anything political and rather talks about depresson, rich people and half naked people.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
What logical Fallacies ?
My point was Palestinians should stop doing violent acts and surrender, no piece of land is worth all these innocent lives. For over 50 years and they've been fighting and what for ? They never succeeded and they will never succeed so they have two options, either make peace with Israel or just leave.
People over the course of History have migrated and left their countries behind and eventually moved on. They should not fight a war they cannot win. I know my opinion isn't very popular among my Arab brethren but this is the only way I see it ccould end this conflict for good.
The civilians should surrender?
Messofanego
Banned
Look at this garbage sentence. "Hamas is forcing our hand!! It's their fault we're killing civilians!"
Terra Firma
Banned
Your opinion is pretty ill informed. Please learn what happened to the Palestinians who did manage to leave Palestine. Most ended up in refugee camps and are treated as second class citizens. Some weren't even spared their lives despite leaving Israel (see Sabra and Shatila). None are welcome anymore in the surrounding Arab countries, especially with some being suspected of being spies for Israel.
You can even see what happened to a lot of the refugees that escaped Iraq when America invaded. There were Iraqi women taking up prostitution in the Middle East of all places outside of Iraq to put food on the table. There was an estimate of some 50,000 Iraqi women who had turned to prostitution after they escaped to Syria from Iraq.
The obvious solution is for Israel to be more proactive and genuine in its efforts towards peace, but this would go against Israel's goal of completely marginalizing the Palestinians, leaving them so defeated that they won't have the ability of self-determination. Israel has created roadblock after roadblock for peace. Hamas is only a recent excuse for Israel.
And lastly, there is the religious significance of Jerusalem to Muslims. Its religious significance to Jews is the main reason that Israel has not been budging on Jerusalem. It is the same reason that majority Arab Jerusalem was divided into half and given to Israel by the UN, despite there being relatively few Jews living there. Muslims have similar claims. Israel has not budged on its claim to Jerusalem and neither have the Palestinians. There is a fear among the Palestinians (and the Muslim world at large) that if they let Israel have unopposed control over Jerusalem, they would destroy Al-Aqsa and build the third Jewish temple on its location.
https://twitter.com/sharifkouddous/status/491202457620742144
I think they are trying to make space for new settlement in gaza
You cannot be serious...
Messofanego
Banned
Thanks for this.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
We have Palestine people who migrated here in Kuwait and are given jobs and free healthcare.
Messofanego
Banned
Looked up about Palestinians in Jordan since they're like half the population there, but it's not so good either.
http://www.minorityrights.org/4945/jordan/palestinians.html
http://www.minorityrights.org/4945/jordan/palestinians.html
And of course if your neighborhood was constantly being bombed you wouldnt want your government to put a stop to it. They should just let HAMAS do whatever they want in perpetuity. That would be the fair thing to do.
Terra Firma
Banned
Now, if Kuwait is willing to foot the bill for the millions of Palestinians to relocate, get housing, and a decent standard of life, then you may have a point.
You still did not respond to the last point in my post.
Gemüsepizza
Member
How many times do we need to post the link about the relevance of the Hamas charter today? And you still post this shit about how they want to kill all jews? This doesn't even make sense. Why would they want to kill Jews in Israel, which is extremely well protected, if they could simply kill them elsewhere? Hint: Probably because they don't want to kill all jews.
You see the hilarious part was after the first sentence I didn't know if you were pro-Israel or pro-Palestine. Because Palestine certainly hasn't suffered massive civilian casualties time and time again and their entire country being bombarded because three teenagers turned up dead.
I always assumed that aggressive resistance is something that goes with forced occupation. It's kind of silly to think you can take and keep taking from someone and not get some kind of retaliation and animosity.
I think his grandfather accept the Kuwait nationality that why he say something like that.... like alot of gulf country did after the 1948 but stopped after that cuz it will effect the palestinian case
It's been talked about six times on this page alone
It's all a big cycle. Israel was formed and displaced people. Fighting over land is a pretty old concept. Since then wars, bombings death etc. Two sides cant agree and one fights back the other clamps down. In my experience it's kind of pointless to go through who did what. they simply need to agree on a resolution.
What is clear though is that HAMAS is shit and they look for this exact result. You can hate Israel for the bombings but there is no good solution until you can get a sincere negotiation. Israel builds defenses, gave back Gaza, treats it's people well. HAMAS builds tunnels, bombs Israel with the intention of starting just this sort of operation. And HAMAS let's not forget, was elected. Israel get's nothing out of this but bad publicity and hopefully a reprieve from the bombing.
Pollux
Member
I am about 100% confident this will have happened within 50 years.
The amount of comments like this that keep popping up in the thread are just embarrassing. Judging from these two ill-informed opinions of yours, it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about, nor do you understand what Hamas has done and what it hasn't. Not only that, but it's pretty clear that you're ignorant on what the State of Israel has done and what it hasn't. And don't even bother coming back and quoting the Hamas charter.
The last cease fire that was agreed in 2012 Israel broke. They made promises that they couldn't keep like the easing of Gaza and the borders opening. The truce that Hamas rejected brokered by Egypt was a joke. The Palestinians had no guarantees, nor were they contacted through the correct channels which is understandably given the current regime in Egypt and the ties Hamas has to the Muslim Brotherhood. Moreover, the unity government proposed by Hamas and Fatah was opposed by the Israeli government and the way Abbas has been dealt with shows the true intentions of that government - i.e. they're not actually interested in a deal just yet. More often than not, when there is a breakdown it's because of the Israelis. What Israel is currently engaged in and what has been intensifying in the last decade is the destruction of the Palestinians in a very systematic way. From the stealing of land, demolition of housing and building of settlements - it so blindly obvious. Rejecting any talks with Hamas, rejecting the proposals put forward by Hamas and so on and so forth. I could go on but I'm sure you get the point. Pretending that Israel are the good guys here is insanity, but make no mistake - Hamas are too. However, Hamas are the by-product of Israeli policy.
Sirpopopop
Member
The administration which "gave" back Gaza is fundamentally different from the one that is in place now.
There isn't much, if any, similarity between the likes of Yitzhak Rubin and Benjamin Netanyahu.
phalestine
aka iby.h
Can you clarify on what you meant when you said they "Gave back gaza"
You do understand that gaza is still occupied, yes?
edit - ok I just caught the "treats its people well", sorry I ever replied to you. The only thing "clear" here is your knowledge of the situation.
Channel 4 reporter Jonathan Miller's article on his phone conversation with his friend in Gaza that brings him to tears, as he too bunkers away amidst the aggression and constant shelling.
I suppose there is no way to truly comprehend the kind of hopelessness and fear that Palestinian's must be facing right now.
http://blogs.channel4.com/miller-on-foreign-affairs/gaza-israel-adeem-abu-middain-1076/1076
I suppose there is no way to truly comprehend the kind of hopelessness and fear that Palestinian's must be facing right now.
http://blogs.channel4.com/miller-on-foreign-affairs/gaza-israel-adeem-abu-middain-1076/1076
And there's the cop out. HAMAS is a by product so their actions are somehow justified, or more so than Israels.
But yours is yet another example of the circular discussions on this topic. Israel did that. Well HAMAS did this. Well that's only because Israel did this! No because that was a reaction to HAMAS doing that!
Very similar to US Russia during the cold war.
Whatever. Israel is a democratic society. Rule of law, protection for minorities. They gave back not only Gaza but a lot of land they took over after being attacked by multiple nations that surround them.
Again, Israel's existence is a shit sandwich for a lot of people. They dont like it, they want the land, and they want the jews out. I get it. But that's not happening. So time to put on the big boy pants and figure it out. Or you know, stick with the crippling poverty, suicide bombing, and all the rest that hasnt worked for your people.
You disagree that Israel treats it's citizens well?
And they pulled all their Israeli settlers out of Gaza, by force in some cases if I remember right. So yeah, gave back. It's now run by HAMAS. And by the way also shares a border with Egypt, which mystifyingly never seems to come up.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Not just kuwait but most GCC countries.
And it does have religious significance for both of them and I highly doubt Isreal will do anything to the Dome Mosque or Aqsa Mosque because they would have done so already.
What does that have to do with anything? How does caring for it's own citizens execuse the barbaric bombardment of innocent life by their military forces?
One thing is clear here, you are very good at evoiding to answer questions pointed at you, looking for single parts of an argument to attack back.
Terra Firma
Banned
Aren't we the optimist?
They would have every legal right to do as they wish. Currently, East Jerusalem is illegally occupied.
I think the disagreement is that Israel would treat it's Palestinian-born citizens well.
phalestine
aka iby.h
Is that what you meant? the way you worded it, it sounded to me like you meant the people of gaza, either way my fault I suppose. But back to the topic, you do understand gaza is still occupied; the statement "gave gaza back" is a joke.
Pretty much. I have been a silent observer of this thread since the start and it seems like every day a new person comes in and exposes a profound ignorance of the situation combined with a staggering arrogance and confidence about their position. Dash seems to be today's. He espouses profound ignorance about the complicated relationship between Palestine and Israel. Based many of his conclusions on unfounded generalizations, likes to selectively answer challenges to his beliefs while ignoring others by way of spamming a new argument and/or ignoring the the parts of the old one that just got taken to the woodshed and worst of all seems to be teetering on victim blaming.
It's not always on the Israeli side I see this but more often then not that seems to be the case in this thread.
When you are getting basic facts about the conflict wrong, misrepresenting the actors in the conflict and disingenuously engaging in the discussion by actively ignoring challenges to your position, you pretty much destroy any credibility you think you have.
Best bet is to stop posting and re-assess your assumptions by re-engaging in the topic academically and open-mindedly for a while and then form a more informed opinion afterwards. Unfortunately that's an unrealistic expectation so I expect more Dash's will be an inevitability.
Messofanego
Banned
“Is is absolutely impossible get out?” I asked. “Impossible,” Adeem said. “We were talking of going to my aunt’s house, in the middle of the refugee camp, but ‘boom’ and they were hitting around that house too. There is no safe place. Everywhere is a target. This is a very hard decision, Jonathan,” she said.
“Anyway,” she said, “my Dad refuses to leave. He doesn’t want to just go to another refugee camp. In 1948 our family was forced to move from Beer Sheva [now a southern Israeli city, in the Negev desert]. Dad learned a lesson. He says ‘We will never move again.
“‘If they kill us here, that is our destiny,’ he says. ‘You really do not want to leave your place.’
“To me,” Adeem said, “Gaza will always be beautiful, with wonderful people. It’s not Gaza’s fault that the barbaric enemy has given the world this terrible image of Gaza. Gaza is where we belong now.
“Something’s changed this time,” she continued – meaning that if feels different from the other two Gaza conflicts in the past five years. “There is an amazing determination to survive. But I feel like this is the last battle. Either the people of Gaza live in dignity or you [she means the Israelis] kill us.
“Anyway,” she said, “my Dad refuses to leave. He doesn’t want to just go to another refugee camp. In 1948 our family was forced to move from Beer Sheva [now a southern Israeli city, in the Negev desert]. Dad learned a lesson. He says ‘We will never move again.
“‘If they kill us here, that is our destiny,’ he says. ‘You really do not want to leave your place.’
“To me,” Adeem said, “Gaza will always be beautiful, with wonderful people. It’s not Gaza’s fault that the barbaric enemy has given the world this terrible image of Gaza. Gaza is where we belong now.
“Something’s changed this time,” she continued – meaning that if feels different from the other two Gaza conflicts in the past five years. “There is an amazing determination to survive. But I feel like this is the last battle. Either the people of Gaza live in dignity or you [she means the Israelis] kill us.
It's even more sad this is happening during Ramadan, usually a time of truce.
That was 60 years ago dude.... there is no in hell the GCC countries will give any Palestinian there Citizenship...
Amazing. You picked up on the very last sentence and disregarded everything else. There is no circular logic. Not once did I justify Hamas' actions. Hamas are the by-product of Israeli policy, I'm not justifying their attacks on the Israeli population - I'm merely stating a fact. Why don't you actually address my post and the points made instead of spewing more of your bigotry.
jakonovski
Member
I'd give good odds on it being a part of why this is happening now. A signal of contempt from Israel.
phalestine
aka iby.h
Very well said.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I never said anything about citizenship...
Giving back Gaza, which is a false statement in itself as they still control Gaza's air space, borders, supplies, territorial waters and so on, is merely a diversion tactic to fool the ignorant and gullible in to believing Israel is removing itself from it's illegal occupation and land theft strategy. The truth is far from it.
2013 for example saw the fastest rate of expansion in their illegal settlements in years. With mass displacement of Palestinian's and their structures.
http://www.economist.com/news/middl...m?zid=308&ah=e21d923f9b263c5548d5615da3d30f4d
A post I made before breaking down the weekly UN reports that show Israel displaces countless Palestinian's in demolishing structures in the West Bank, on a weekly basis, and have been doing so for years on end, with little to no break.
Great observation, we have been seeing this happen since the first thread. Yet people at times just ignore factual reports or sources that would suggest their views on this whole conflict is wrong.
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