Jimquisition (July 21) - The Xbox One: A Lying Failure Machine
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SerTapTap
Member
Harsh title (I guess that's the name of the game in modern journalism, though). "Failure" is probably deserved (in terms of promises moreso than sales), "lying" is a stretch.
I think Microsoft just jumped the gun, though they did it pretty spectacularly. If they pulled these features out of their hat a couple years in with a $250 Xbox One (kinect mic included) it might have been big, or at least survived. The Amazon Fire TV is basically doing half or more of that the Xbox One was supposed to be and it's' quite positively reviewed. But it's a $100 set top box, not a $500 console.
They were clearly thinking of mass market adoption, though to this day I can't really imagine how they expected that to happen. I guess they saw people buying $500 tablets left and right and thought "why not Xbox", but game consoles don't have that popular mindshare that tablets do, not to mention they're a lot less general-purpose, even with all the features MS was touting included.
All in all, pulling the features that clearly weren't going to work out wasn't a bad idea, though they haven't handled it all well. But between company-wide restructuring and taking a PS4 to the face, stuff had to change. I think we can be glad TV got the ax and not video games, though.
I think Microsoft just jumped the gun, though they did it pretty spectacularly. If they pulled these features out of their hat a couple years in with a $250 Xbox One (kinect mic included) it might have been big, or at least survived. The Amazon Fire TV is basically doing half or more of that the Xbox One was supposed to be and it's' quite positively reviewed. But it's a $100 set top box, not a $500 console.
They were clearly thinking of mass market adoption, though to this day I can't really imagine how they expected that to happen. I guess they saw people buying $500 tablets left and right and thought "why not Xbox", but game consoles don't have that popular mindshare that tablets do, not to mention they're a lot less general-purpose, even with all the features MS was touting included.
All in all, pulling the features that clearly weren't going to work out wasn't a bad idea, though they haven't handled it all well. But between company-wide restructuring and taking a PS4 to the face, stuff had to change. I think we can be glad TV got the ax and not video games, though.
No, it's not satire.
How it is not lying? Albert Penello literally PERSONALLY signed up for an account on NeoGAF, seemingly for the single purpose of lying and obfuscating about the Xbone in virtually every post. They lied literally constantly.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
He's calling it like he sees it. The truth obviously might hurt depending on how you look at it. He makes the most salient points though.
We are talking big picture now vs a forum member being hyperbolic. I know what I said and said it for a reason. I understand what you're trying to say but I also wanted to clarify even further.
licktheenvelope
Member
What he actually says is:
(Paraphrasing)
"Microsoft promised to be the driving experience of our entertainment set... what they envisioned is not what they are producing... they lied about kinect being integral... Microsoft is trying to act 'heroic' by pulling u-turn after u-turn on what they originally said... people should not forget about always on DRM that they said could not be removed, then patching it out right away... am not for passive admittance of dishonesty to customers... Microsoft treats customers like idiots... The Xbox One is a failure as it's completely different from what was envisioned and even though it's a console that's functional now it does not make up for the constant lies and Microsoft now spinning their u-turns as being heroic."
Metallix87
Member
I'm sorry, who are you arguing with, exactly? I never said we should be thankful. I said it's okay to be glad that things have gotten better. Those two concepts are not synonymous. Also, you and I have VERY different definitions for what "bare fucking minimum" constitutes.
I'll take note of their fuck ups, take note of their attempts to do better and take note of their current and future plans. Still haven't bought one but I don't have time to "hate" a company. If they release more stuff that I want I'll get an XO sooner rather than later. Until then all I can do is keep an eye on them.
Coffee Dog
Banned
What healthy competition? Nobody's competing.
BetaTeaser
Banned
I love my Xbox One. Probably the beat console I've ever owned.
Don't know what Jim is so hurt.
Don't know what Jim is so hurt.
mightynine
Member
So I should be buying a X1 to save jobs, not on the product's merits?
Metallix87
Member
Then I guess last generation, Sony should've just killed the console off within the first year, because Wii and 360 were just doing so well. Heck, the 360 should've been killed off, as well, because it's good sales weren't anything compared to the Wii's great sales.
No, but you shouldn't be calling the system pointless and wishing for it to die. That's childish.
licktheenvelope
Member
Jim's problem is that MS is spinning it as being 'heroic' when they really just have to pander or the X1 wont be relevant.
I'm on the fence here now. I recognize MS made a lot of changes based on customer dis-satisfaction, so I commend them for that. I still feel they've been very sleazy since the X1 was announced, Spencer being the only one who at least resembles a human being.
I agree, and I feel the same way. I just want games lol.
There's no such thing as 'trust' when dealing with corporations, and people who believe that are morons. Just take what you can get at face value that isn't completely fucking you over. When you see bullshit, call it /out./
But he explains it, what point are you not understanding? You can quote the parts and someone will help you out.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Kind of harsh but i can see the points Jim is trying to make here.
You didn't watch the video, or you have NOT been following the Bone's announcement to commercial release span.
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Harsh? What the fuck is 'harsh?' We as consumers HAVE to be harsh if you want any change to happen. Don't pussyfoot around it.
Shouldn't they have learned what the fans want from the 2 boxes that came before the Xbone? For example kinect, they were pushing that down the throat from the beginning and judging by the fact that they had to make a kinectless version, people weren't all that interested in the thing.
CambriaRising
Member
Thats probably because they aren't.
They have constantly blamed the consumer for not being ready for their vision of a digital future.
SerTapTap
Member
Okay, their performance talk is straight up lying on their part, actually. Wasn't mentioned in the video though, and they've never 180'd on that. I don't expect them to ever admit it though, and it doesn't really change anything other than marketing BS. Hardware's already done, not like they can fix it.
LOL, so I should just sell my system even if it has more games I want to play? It seems to me the 'brand loyalists' are the ones who will not even give it the benefit of the doubt for what it has going for it. It has some great games, with even more on the way, a great controller and even some fantastic features that many people like to use. It's actually an awesome system, not the spawn of Satan that must be destroyed by the wrath of Sony.
Coffee Dog
Banned
What points do you disagree on, exactly?
Nobody's saying you should sell it. Maybe you should calm down, your feelings have obviously been hurt and you are reacting with strawmen.
I'm not entirely sure what Jim is propositioning as the more noble alternative, here. I mean, there's certainly valid reasons to criticise, but it's coming across more as grudge-bearing, and if I bore a grudge against every single company that made mistakes - and in many cases, more significantly lasting mistakes - that were detrimental to me in the past, I wouldn't have many games left to play!
licktheenvelope
Member
One of the big fights MS still has is that they treated gamers like morons at the beginning and are still trying to win over a lot of us.
That's a big part of all these u-turns. I'm still not sure why they completely ignored the gaming community all last year before their launch while Sony basically did the opposite. That was a bizarre decision, to ignore your core market.
So true. But as we saw in a recent thread about preordering, that mindset is fully entrenched in the GAF community.
DrDrizzay101
Member
Nothing against the X1 since I don't own one but still hope it does well as a positive sign for gaming in general... but I really hope you haven't owned many consoles. I have a PS4 and the releases so far for both consoles have been very meager. Hopefully you never owned an SNES or PS2 (arguably the GOATs), let alone basically every prior generation of Nintendo, Sony, and MS consoles (and Sega Genesis + Dreamcast).
mightynine
Member
And I understand that, but let's face it, the X1 was designed from the ground up to be a completely different machine. Now MS is desperately trying to re-focus it as a game machine first, but...it's still the same box, built to be some sort of all-in-one living room everything.
While I don't want the system to die, is it that hard to understand that the system is somewhat pointless now?
Kinect is now a fractured market. No one knows how Quantum Break will be now with the entertainment stuff out the window. Hell, no one even knows where the Halo show is going to air and on what.
Spencer can sit up there and wear gaming t-shirts and push the game narrative as much as he wants, but he's doing it because MS has to - they've got nothing left. That's not making a decision that's best for the consumer, it's trying their damndest to not lose their ass on this thing.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Actually, they saw that the Xbox One was selling like shit so they had to do something.
Just like Jim says, I can't applaud them for some shit that makes sense.
licktheenvelope
Member
The one that still gets me is when people will tell me that we lost some special gift by MS having to drop always on DRM because they might have had an option where you could basically allow a demo off of your games digitally to a friend.
I am still puzzled over that argument to this day.
ZeroGravity
Member
Not shockingly, there are people here missing the point.
Yes, Microsoft (finally) started to do the right things with their console, but only after it became clear that each and every thing they did wrong was causing the console to completely tank. It wasn't out of the goodness of their heart, or because they believe that's how a console should be handled. In fact, they quietly seem to feel the opposite; that their original vision is still the best and that consumers either didn't understand it or didn't appreciate it. We (the consumers) are the bad guys here in their eyes.
The fact that they don't seem to have any genuine remorse or understanding of their own wrong-doings when it comes to the Xbox One means they're all the more likely to commit similar mistakes in the future.
Yes, Microsoft (finally) started to do the right things with their console, but only after it became clear that each and every thing they did wrong was causing the console to completely tank. It wasn't out of the goodness of their heart, or because they believe that's how a console should be handled. In fact, they quietly seem to feel the opposite; that their original vision is still the best and that consumers either didn't understand it or didn't appreciate it. We (the consumers) are the bad guys here in their eyes.
The fact that they don't seem to have any genuine remorse or understanding of their own wrong-doings when it comes to the Xbox One means they're all the more likely to commit similar mistakes in the future.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The only thing being proposed, is that if you dislike being lied to, don't support the company.
If you're cool with being lied to, then just go about your merry way.
And the PS3 with Move is just a tryhard Wii (without the sales) and the Vita is just a 3DS without 3D that sells 1/10 the units. Everything can be reduced, especially in hindsight.
If you buy an Xbox One, buy a game for it, play the game, and enjoy the game, how are you being disserviced again? The need to turn this into an emotional blame game is ridiculous, especially considering that our memory apparently only goes back 18 months. Every company will try to make more money. Some approaches will succeed, some will fail, some will succeed and then fail, etc. There are no "good guys" here.
Unless I've missed something, this feels like a bit of a stretch to me. But I do agree with a lot of this post.
Ultimately here's the real reason Microsoft is backing off a lot of its old original stuff - because Sony is taking them to the woodshed right now.
Another thing I would say is that although I think that Sony's PR is kind of transparently pandering, at least they started like that and stuck with it. They've banged the same 'by gamers for gamers' drum since the launch. They have nothing to apologise for beyond, maybe, the fact that we don't have suspend and resume yet.
The Xbone is completely unrecognisable from what was announced, and yet, every time they change it a little more to try and bail water out of the sinking ship they pretend like nothing's changed. The closest they came was this E3 where they almost admitted that they'd fucked up. But even then they wouldn't admit it.
When I say that I want the Xbone dead I mean that I want them to fail so badly that they learn to respect their customers, stop lying, stop trying to pull a fast one.
The Xbone is completely unrecognisable from what was announced, and yet, every time they change it a little more to try and bail water out of the sinking ship they pretend like nothing's changed. The closest they came was this E3 where they almost admitted that they'd fucked up. But even then they wouldn't admit it.
When I say that I want the Xbone dead I mean that I want them to fail so badly that they learn to respect their customers, stop lying, stop trying to pull a fast one.
The PS4 also has an arguably better controller and arguably better exclusives, but it also has a lot of inarguably better stuff as well.
If a console has enough games to warrant a purchase from an individual then it can never be pointless. For me that time hasn't come because I'm pleased with my PS4 PC and WiiU, but I can absolutely see why someone else would look at their lineup and consider the console worth existing. To feel otherwise is, frankly, ridiculous.
licktheenvelope
Member
What's more astonishing is that they ignored months and months of places like GAF and basically the whole market hearing the rumours of what they ended up presenting and saying "Wow don't do that in a games console... that will fail..." then ignoring that + coming in at a higher price tag than any pundit envisioned.
Metallix87
Member
Ever since last generation, ALL consoles have been the type of device in bold.
The system is only pointless if you were interested in it primarily for either Kinect or Xbox Original programming. That's it. Everything else is still a part of the package.
As for Spencer, he's taken on the responsibility of steering the ship away from the rocks, so to speak. He's realized that gaming is a strength they have, since there were a lot of Xbox 360 fans who were hooked to that system's ecosystem and online infrastructure, and he's likely banking on using that as a means to attain success. Yes, it's being done primarily for business, but realistically, what isn't? We're benefiting, though, because the system is becoming more competitive, it has some great exclusives in the pipeline, and the new focus means we can expect more. The multimedia functionality is still there for those who want it, it's just taking a backseat in terms of the marketing message for the platform. Kinect will likely die, but that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. It's a neat peripheral, but with limited use in gaming.
Your post is absolutely pointless. How does this contradict my post, exactly? He said now it's just a weaker PS4 now, and I pointed out the differentiating factors.
Because apparently making changes based on consumer demand and modifying their marketing strategy is a bad thing!
Also, I really don't understand this whole "never forget the DRM!?!" The original product was clearly focused on being a digital console. When the uproar occurred MS very quickly realised that this wasn't what the consumer base wanted and so very quickly (one week) announced plans to reverse all that. There was one week in which the DRM was merely being planned. Had they released the console with always online I would understand. However the fact that it was reversed so quickly and they're still getting grievances for it is ridiculous.
I'll also stop purchasing Sony products, then (OtherOS turnaround, Driveclub plans changing, poor Vita support, Lik-Sang). And Nintendo (Poor late-life Wii support, failing to meet promises with third party support for generation after generation).
Okay, Microsoft's crimes are more recent (Nintendo's are more... perpetual). But that doesn't mean that the others are in any way innocent, here. So it's a matter of judgement, on when you percieve that a given system is the system you wish to purchase. And I'm perfectly content to appraise any such thing in the new context of any changes without the information being obfuscated by past plans.
anexanhume
Member
GAF represents an extremely vocal but very small minority, even if they are "whales" in terms of console dollars. They thought the majority of people would be indifferent with the changes or celebrate the positive benefits and ignore the drawbacks.
Personally, I don't think it would have been that bad had they not required check-ins and figured out a way to do a $400 SKU. People could have overlooked the power difference.
ZeroGravity
Member
But not if you refuse to admit they were mistakes.
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