Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!

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Amazeballs said:
He's a mathematical genius, a savant tobe more specific. I'm not too sure think he has high functioning aspergers. His interpersonal skills could use work but he definitely does know his stuff when it comes to the games' mechanics because he's able to reduce them down to math. It's quite fascinating.

Speaking of which he's not saying "you need to be good at melee or you suck" although it does sound like it. He's saying that melee requires highly developed funamental skills while in P:M you can be good using cheesey tactics and matchup unfamiliarity. I don't watch P:M but from what I hear Mew2King can beat pretty everyone except for a few players, so he does have skill to back his criticisms. Armada, a fellow high level player, seems to agree with his opinions as well.
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Well, I'd be returning to a point I've made in an earlier thread, if you are so good, you should be able to read through cheesy tactics and an unfamiliar match-up. If in football Barcelona looses from De Graafschap, they won't get away with saying De Graafschap used cheesy tactics and that they don't know their play style. Of course, if you only play by rationale (converting animations to "lines of code", inverse compiling?) instead of by feel, then you are in deep trouble with an unfamiliar match-up or by being confronted by new tactics.
Good thing if he is indeed able to show his skill despite those claims.

Then again, I don't know M2K or his behaviour except for this one quote, so my comments are extremely selective.
 
Also, going back to the "M2K calling out P:M" subject, D1 was just asked about that on his stream, and he talked about how he was talking to Armada about P:M and Armada basically said that he and M2K are just expressing their opinions and people shouldn't take their word as gospel just because they're top players.
 
If you lose due to not being familiar with a match-up, isn't that your fault for not learning it? I've never seen someone blame someone else for them not knowing a match-up before in other games. If you don't know match-ups in Melee you would have problems too. It seems like that complaint is coming from the point of view of a player who hasn't dealt with changing between many games at a competitive level.
 
Amazeballs said:
He's a mathematical genius, a savant tobe more specific. I'm not too sure think he has high functioning aspergers. His interpersonal skills could use work but he definitely does know his stuff when it comes to the games' mechanics because he's able to reduce them down to math. It's quite fascinating.

Speaking of which he's not saying "you need to be good at melee or you suck" although it does sound like it. He's saying that melee requires highly developed funamental skills while in P:M you can be good using cheesey tactics and matchup unfamiliarity. I don't watch P:M but from what I hear Mew2King can beat pretty everyone except for a few players, so he does have skill to back his criticisms. Armada, a fellow high level player, seems to agree with his opinions as well.
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Keep in mind that matchup unfamiliarity isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the metagame. Amsa was able to get more victories from an unfamiliar matchup in Melee because Yoshi was such an unknown character. After a while, people will learn the matchups for all but the least popular characters.
 
Bleep said:
If you lose due to not being familiar with a match-up, isn't that your fault for not learning it? I've never seen someone blame someone else for them not knowing a match-up before in other games. If you don't know match-ups in Melee you would have problems too. It seems like that complaint is coming from the point of view of a player who hasn't dealt with changing between many games at a competitive level.
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He has played Melee, Brawl and P:M competitively and is a god in all of them (God=Top5 in SmashBros terms). He doesn't have a problem against unknown matchups or with changing games.
 
Bleep said:
If you lose due to not being familiar with a match-up, isn't that your fault for not learning it? I've never seen someone blame someone else for them not knowing a match-up before in other games. If you don't know match-ups in Melee you would have problems too. It seems like that complaint is coming from the point of view of a player who hasn't dealt with changing between many games at a competitive level.
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Mew2King dominated Melee and Brawl at the same time and is one of the best Project M players as well. Switching between games certainly isn't an issue for him.

Although it's kinda hilarious he's complaining about unfamiliar matchups when he screwed himself at Kings of Cali for trying to play the matchup and choosing characters he was unfamiliar with.
 
KHlover said:
He has played Melee, Brawl and P:M competitively and is a god in all of them (God=Top5 in SmashBros terms). He doesn't have a problem against unknown matchups or with changing games.
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I know who Mew2King is and his successes, I'm just saying if you don't know the match up, that isn't the fault of the game. It seems like a really weird complaint to me. I have no experience with the competitive Smash community, but with other fighting games the general attitude is if you don't know a match up it's up to you to learn it and adapt to it. If you don't know the match up in any game it's up to the player to learn it. The complaints in that screenshot feel like they could apply to Melee also, which is why it sticks out as being weird to me.
 
I used to confused Mew2King and Mewtwo2000 (guy in the Smash modding scene) since both names can be abbreviated to M2K.
 
KHlover said:
M2K is right about the gimmicks. Melee characters made it almost undamaged, but oooh boy did the ProjectM team butcher the Brawl characters. They don't feel like their Brawl counterparts balanced to Melee physics at all, instead they just tossed out moves and replaced them willy-nilly or even replaced the entire mechanics the character was based on before. Horrible, just horrible. Those guys should stop butchering SmashBros and make their own game with their own characters instead.
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Then nobody would care about Project M.
 
Bleep said:
If you lose due to not being familiar with a match-up, isn't that your fault for not learning it? I've never seen someone blame someone else for them not knowing a match-up before in other games. If you don't know match-ups in Melee you would have problems too. It seems like that complaint is coming from the point of view of a player who hasn't dealt with changing between many games at a competitive level.
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Project M 3.0 is less than a year old. It's not so easy to learn a matchup when A) most of the meta is still in infancy and could change very quickly, and B) there isn't a large pool of data to research from.
 
Wario Ware is biting commentary on smart phone gaming before smart phone gaming was even a thing.

Wario is influenced to make cheap throw away games because a game featuring a red bird is extremely popular. Also said games are a rip off of previously existing games, but no one had heard of them so his gained the reputation of being truly original.
 
SuperSah said:
I kinda think it's lazy and meh.
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I think your face is kinda lazy and meh!

But really, I like it a lot. Wily's castle seems like a great stage that should be in both versions. (Besides the Yellow Devil. Think he'll be fun here and there but I really hooe you can turn him off). Like the boxing ring. And it confirms 3DS bosses.
 
BGBW said:
Wario Ware is biting commentary on smart phone gaming before smart phone gaming was even a thing.

Wario is influenced to make cheap throw away games because a game featuring a red bird is extremely popular. Also said games are a rip off of previously existing games, but no one had heard of them so his gained the reputation of being truly original.
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The only explanation for this is that Wario is a time traveler.

That should be the plot of the next Wario Ware.
 
Durden77 said:
I think your face is kinda lazy and meh!

But really, I like it a lot. Wily's castle seems like a great stage that should be in both versions. (Besides the Yellow Devil. Think he'll be fun here and there but I really hooe you can turn him off). Like the boxing ring. And it confirms 3DS bosses.
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I always thought the Dark Emporer was a stage boss too.

Boxing Ring is awesome, but Yellow Devil kinda ruins this stage. I'm glad there's no "real hazard in the Boxing Ring; well for now.
 
It's no secret that M2K is weird about people being deserved of wins in Pro M. Some sort of an issue with the opponents winning because he doesn't understand the match-up/gimmicks of the character, when if he did, he would beat them.

Probably true, tbh. But yes, he is being a baby because the absurd amount of time he's put into Melee doesn't translate entirely into Pro M. Oh well.
 
M2K is a great player and knowedgable but that shit he said about Project M is stupid. Don't take top players' words as gospel guys.
 
Regulus Tera said:
Then nobody would care about Project M.
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I'm sure they could have respectfully rebalanced the Brawl characters like they did with Melee ones.

Also don't think your statement is true, hype for ProjectM has been there practically since announcement.


Toxi said:
Please explain why they should stop developing a game mod they find fun.

Why is it affecting your enjoyment of the unmodded game?
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Read my previous post carefully again. I only used the word butchering to refer to how they completely lost the original purpose of ProjectM (make Brawl feel more like Melee) by making HUGE changes in moveset and game mechanics in Brawl characters only. They are pretty much turning ProjectM into their own little fangame now that no original characters are left to butcher with completely original characters, stages (what buisness does a Castlevania stage have in Smash Bros?) and game modes. Might as well reflect that by creating completely original characters, stages etc. and stop leeching off the Smash Bros IP.

Don't get me wrong, even with all the bullshit they pulled with the SSBB characters I still ENJOY playing ProjectM, but what they do right now is a slippery slope and they have all but fallen off at the moment.
 
Zevenberge said:
Well, I'd be returning to a point I've made in an earlier thread, if you are so good, you should be able to read through cheesy tactics and an unfamiliar match-up. If in football Barcelona looses from De Graafschap, they won't get away with saying De Graafschap used cheesy tactics and that they don't know their play style. Of course, if you only play by rationale (converting animations to "lines of code", inverse compiling?) instead of by feel, then you are in deep trouble with an unfamiliar match-up or by being confronted by new tactics.
Good thing if he is indeed able to show his skill despite those claims.

Then again, I don't know M2K or his behaviour except for this one quote, so my comments are extremely selective.
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His problem with the game isn't that he can't beat cheesey tactics it's that those tactics are allowed by the and he simply doesn't like them. His comment seems to be in regards to players boasting about winning use cheesing and unfamiliar matchups. This isn't the extent of his criticisms of P:M either.

Edit: /u/KenseKense summarizes the situation better than I can for lack of experience in P:M

KenseKense said:
As clarification, I was attempting to convey that in Project M, the PMBR teams lacks a strong vision for what they want the baseline of the game to be, as in, what is their standard for what characters should get? Which characters have what type of playstyle? And what movesets adhere to such playstyles? Without a in depth knowledge of such, all PMBR has developed is a game where many characters get free combos because their toolbox needs to be "balanced." This is often an excuse to give characters with a certain playstyle moves that cover too far into a different playstyle, while also providing safety to whatever other moves these characters possess, making a bunch of options free and super-easy to execute. This promotes shallow game development because players just need to exploit these simple mechanics, and not have to worry about bigger "neutral game" or mix-ups in approaches/pressure because their asses are covered most of the time.
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Jedi Link said:
Project M 3.0 is less than a year old. It's not so easy to learn a matchup when A) most of the meta is still in infancy and could change very quickly, and B) there isn't a large pool of data to research from.
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That's why you shouldn't get upset about not knowing the match up! I've always found part of the fun of a new game is making discoveries and coming up with new strategies at the same time as other players. If you are still learning about the game you need to take everything as a learning experience, especially losing.
 
Amazeballs said:
Wario Ware? Isn't that just a collection of cheap mobile games?

*runs*
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You joke, but the plot is Wario creates a game development company that pushes out quick, simple games so he can make some fast cash. Fortunately that trend never caught on in the real world...
 
Forkball said:
You joke, but the plot is Wario creates a game development company that pushes out quick, simple games so he can make some fast cash. Fortunately that trend never caught on in the real world...
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I know. I took that into consideration when typing that joke. Good thing it never really happened.
 
KHlover said:
I'm sure they could have respectfully rebalanced the Brawl characters like they did with Melee ones.
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They did respectfully rebalance a few.

They also thought some others were not fun and changed them.

And if that is a problem for you, well, it's their game. This reminds me of the reactions to character changes in a new Smash...
 
Bleep said:
That's why you shouldn't get upset about not knowing the match up! I've always found part of the fun of a new game is making discoveries and coming up with new strategies at the same time as other players. If you are still learning about the game you need to take everything as a learning experience, especially losing.
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What M2K said is kind of true. There are a lot of people winning/losing purely due to matchup unfamiliarity.

But I agree with you. This is something that you should expect to happen and not complain about. No Johns, etc.
 
Forkball said:
You joke, but the plot is Wario creates a game development company that pushes out quick, simple games so he can make some fast cash. Fortunately that trend never caught on in the real world...
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Following that line, the games 9-Volt 'made' for Wario Ware Inc. were a parody of Gameloft before they even existed.

Project M Wario is superior to Brawl Wario, though I'd personally go with what Toxi said and made the bite a side Smash, the shoulder barge a neutral B and just balance the Wario Bike better as his Side B. Keep in the butt stomp and maybe give him a similar pick-up-and-move throw like DK has and he'd be pretty perfect.
 
BGBW said:
Wario Ware is biting commentary on smart phone gaming before smart phone gaming was even a thing.

Wario is influenced to make cheap throw away games because a game featuring a red bird is extremely popular. Also said games are a rip off of previously existing games, but no one had heard of them so his gained the reputation of being truly original.
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Mind, blown. I don't know how I didn't pick up on this. Maybe because I haven't played WarioWare in a while.
HawthorneKitty said:
Amazon Japan is offering a cleaning cloth with purchase!
Yay I guess.

Source: http://nintendotweet.tumblr.com/post/92612636763/amazon-japan-are-offering-a-cleaning-cloth-with
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Man, we never get the good stuff outside of Japan.
 
Holy shit

after reading the thread that gave Fady K his tag, I'm wondering how much of an improvement there was from Xenosaga to Xenoblade.

I have never seen that much hate on GAF for a game series
 
Pop-O-Matic said:
In my experience, any rag with something printed on it usually sucks ass at actually cleaning shit like glasses and screens.
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I imagine the other side will be blank and you're supposed to use that?


Also the logo really looks shit with the "for NINTENDO 3DS" underneath it, I'd rather they just called both games "Super Smash Bros." if they're not going to give it a proper subtitle.
 
Okay which one of you casted a sleeping spell on me.....I cant stay awake for the potd anymore for some damn reason.*just woke up* ;-;


Megaman stage on 3DS. Cool.
 
Dimitri LH said:
Okay which one of you casted a sleeping spell on me.....I cant stay awake for the potd anymore for some damn reason.*just woke up* ;-;


Megaman stage on 3DS. Cool.
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Pft, we even got the pic early today. What will you do when we get it during the regular time or even an hour late?
 
going to replay Fire Emblem this summer to refresh my hype for all those newcomers

not going to let all the cute ones die this time (by mistake)
 
I like the way the stage is looking on 3ds. Will be great fun to play there in matches where stage hazards are allowed.

Besides that, the Yellow Devil comes out too much. It would have been nice to see a new MM stage but whatever. I think the stage variety will make up for it.

Toxi said:
Holy shit

after reading the thread that gave Fady K his tag, I'm wondering how much of an improvement there was from Xenosaga to Xenoblade.

I have never seen that much hate on GAF for a game series
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Wait GAF dislikes the Xeno series?
 
At least there's a final destination version of the megaman stage :)

I kind if wish Wii u and 3ds both got the same pacman stage from the 3ds version. Wii u pacman stage is from a game no one ever played T,T....looks so bad too..
 
EhoaVash said:
At least there's a final destination version of the megaman stage :)

I kind if wish Wii u and 3ds both got the same pacman stage from the 3ds version. Wii u pacman stage is from a game no one ever played T,T....looks so bad too..
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Yeah, the MSPaint look ensures no one WILL ever play it in the future, too :P
 
At least give us Dr. Wily in a giant skeleton mech or something, E3 made Yellow Devil out to be a huge pain in the ass.

Hope the inevitable Wario Ware Inc. stage successor in SSB4 doesn't have a boss hazard.
 
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