Not to mention, if you are pregnant, you should also consider that you are not putting only yourself in danger.
Man shoots and kills intruder. Police determine she was not pregnant.
- Thread starter MThanded
- Start date
- Status
Not to mention, if you are pregnant, you should also consider that you are not putting only yourself in danger.
goldenpp72
Member
Heat of the moment ends the moment the attacker runs?
"God's Beard!"
Member
We know people are desperate when they rob shit, but that doesn't make them good people either. You should have a little more respect for people's intelligence.
Just because we don't care about how hard their life is or isn't doesn't mean we think they're out robbing people for shits and giggles.
The whole thing comes down to whether or not they pose a threat that justifies the use of deadly force. Two people on the ground begging to live do not pose that kind of threat. Doing just about anything else while in his house robbing him however would likely be perceived by a reasonable person as justifying deadly force.
Not hard to rationalize hurting someone if they hurt you back.
That wasn't an argument, it was me opining about the absurdity of different standards for criminals and victims, in general.
CitizenCope
Member
I may have snapped if that happened to me too. He probably still deserves some time for his actions but it sucks that scum like this put him in this situation.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";122549152]We know people are desperate when they rob shit, but that doesn't make them good people either. You should have a little more respect for people's intelligence.
Just because we don't care about how hard their life is or isn't doesn't mean we think they're out robbing people for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying they are good people. What I am saying:
It's the reason why, by law, what he did is illegal. He does not get to punish the robbers by taking their life because he does not have the information nor the qualifications to make such a judgement.
Secondly, this is your first post in this thread, I'm obviously not referring to you in this instance. There are too many people to count who agree what this piece of shit did was a good thing.
Just because we don't care about how hard their life is or isn't doesn't mean we think they're out robbing people for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying they are good people. What I am saying:
It's the reason why, by law, what he did is illegal. He does not get to punish the robbers by taking their life because he does not have the information nor the qualifications to make such a judgement.
Secondly, this is your first post in this thread, I'm obviously not referring to you in this instance. There are too many people to count who agree what this piece of shit did was a good thing.
So according to him this had happened multiple times before, likely by the same perpetrators, and this time he was assaulted and injured. If I was 80+ years I probably would have done the same thing and been just as cold. He was probably tired of being the victim. What's the worst that can happen to him now? Life in prison? Oh no! NOT AT 80! HIS WHOLE LIFE IS AHEAD OF HIM!
Dreams-Visions
Member
Put him under the jail. What possesses a man to shoot someone attempting to *leave* and talking about their baby?
I can't, GAF. I can't.
Unfortunately, I have to co-sign. You've put yourself and an unborn child in mortal danger. If they had been shot in the home, this wouldn't even be a thread because the homeowner would have been clearly within his rights.
I can't, GAF. I can't.
Unfortunately, I have to co-sign. You've put yourself and an unborn child in mortal danger. If they had been shot in the home, this wouldn't even be a thread because the homeowner would have been clearly within his rights.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Let's say someone stabs you in the back. You reach for the gun by you and point it at them, ready to shoot but before you do they drop to their knees and say they're SOOOO SOORRRY.
According to your logic, they no longer pose a threat.
This was the third time that this lady broke into this mans house. You really cant say that it was a one time stupid mistake. He had the right to defend himself. You can't just rob someone and say "BTW I'm pregnant, don't kill me"
I've been robbed before and its really the worst feeling imaginable. It feels like someone has invaded your life. I washed all my clothes because I felt like they'd been dirtied with treacherous hands.
I've been robbed before and its really the worst feeling imaginable. It feels like someone has invaded your life. I washed all my clothes because I felt like they'd been dirtied with treacherous hands.
Kacho
Member
That's how I feel. His poor wife too. Such a shitty situation.
There has to be a reasonable "cooling off" period for heat-of-passion not to apply anymore. The attackers fleeing right after they just robbed you (and you still collecting yourself) doesn't seem like there was an actual moment to cool off.
Lambda Pie
Banned
old folks have nothing to lose, they shoot to kill. should've known better, robbers.
Malice aforethought is demonstrated by aiming a gun and shooting it at someone. He intended deadly harm.
The first example is justified homicide because you've acted in self defense. The second example is maybe excusable homicide given a "heat-of-the-moment" defense. Showing that the defendant would reasonably be mentally disturbed is part of the process for the latter.
If you have to follow them, sure. To be honest his interview would probably kill the argument. That sort of defense isn't accepted in every jurisdiction anyway.
Jmanunknown
Member
Man this such a messed up case. This is an example of two wrongs do not make a right. They were wrong for trying to steal his money and he was wrong for shooting an unarmed women in the back who was fleeing and could have possibly been pregnant.
The problem I have is the old guy shot a women in the back and has no remorse. Taking a life should not be easy and you should feel remorse.
The problem I have is the old guy shot a women in the back and has no remorse. Taking a life should not be easy and you should feel remorse.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
This point is moot unless he called the police to report the previous robberies. Otherwise it's his word against a corpse.
TheRedSnifit
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";122549656]Let's say someone stabs you in the back. You reach for the gun by you and point it at them, ready to shoot but before you do they drop to their knees and say they're SOOOO SOORRRY.
According to your logic, they no longer pose a threat.[/QUOTE]
Three times, no less.
According to your logic, they no longer pose a threat.[/QUOTE]
Three times, no less.
alfredofroylan
Member
Well somebody is going to be charged for murder.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...=Feed:+nydnrss/lifestyle/education+(Education)
BronsonLee
Member
Ahhh, thanks for the update.
I could see them charging this guy for murder and just calling it a day.
CountAntonius
Member
Well he's fucked.
Your confidence in the police is touching. Glad that you've had a better experience with cops than I have. A few DWB experiences will change your tune real quick.
ah yes, yea, that case was straight up murder.
Kacho
Member
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Ah yes, that sends the perfect message.
How does your brain even arrive at such a conclusion?
TheRedSnifit
Member
"Malice aforethought" usually means something like "prior intent to kill", which would have been demonstrated by deliberately setting a trap for them like that guy a few months ago did. He obviously intended deadly harm, but this doesn't make it premeditated.
How does the scenario I put forward constitute "heat-of-the-moment", but not the scenario this thread is about? I think a lot of people would agree that the same people robbing you and attacking you several times in a row would put even the most reasonable people under severe mental and emotional distress.
That would depend on the specific details and his own state of mind. His interview certainly doesn't paint a picture of uncontrolled rage.
Puppet Shadow
Member
This is the part of the story I don't get. Chasing them down implies he was running after them and catching up, or at a minimum keeping pace. He had just been knocked to the ground, was able to fight them off, run and grab his gun... then beat it down an alley after them? He's fuckin' 80! They're in their twenties. I can't see it.
Personally I think he's lying, and just caught them in the act with his gun already in his hand. But, his version does make him sound like a badass.
"God's Beard!"
Member
"So many people seem to forget that people who rob houses, the majority of the time, are not doing so because it's fun. "
That sounds like a statement coming from someone making imaginary backgrounds for criminals in order to feel better about themselves by taking a position of moral superiority.
You don't know why these people wanted to rob and attack anyone. You don't need to care why. The fact is, they made a conscious, pre-meditated decision to rob and attack this man repeatedly. Their socioeconomic status is 100% irrelevant.
So someone who attacks you then runs away when they realize they aren't getting away unhurt is no longer a threat? When they've demonstrated willingness to come back and attack you again and again?
djplaeskool
Member
It seems to me that once you hit a certain age, one's ability to give any fucks decreases exponentially.
This isn't me calling you out or anything, but it's kind of funny to see people taking strides to justify criminals burglarizing a home with hypotheticals (issues with upbringing, socioeconomics, etc.), and then swiftly calling the victim's claims that he has been repeatedly robbed moot if it cannot be proven.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. No sympathy from me, she had no common sense. That baby's life was going to be pretty rough regardless.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
The news has not mentioned if he did report the previous incidents. As of now it's an unknown.
How single minded. A simple "Breaking into someone else's home is wrong" without blaming a goddamn victim is simple enough and fine for this discussion.
timetokill
Banned
wow, they had probably robbed his home twice before, AND they slammed this old man into the ground and broke his collarbone? damn.
BronsonLee
Member
This will sound far more crass than intended, so apologies in advance. Your anecdotal experiences with the police don't really apply here. I'm assuming different state, county, etc etc. Also, most police departments won't allow something like a home invasion just disappear into the aether, as it can always escalate (like it did here).
This makes the most sense. truth be told. I could see him catching them, them begging off (this is where she informs him of the pregnancy, to try and save herself). They knock him over to escape, and here we are.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Probably because he's being interviewed well after the event. Should he start foaming at the mouth at the very mention of it?
Kacho
Member
Not sure, but it sounds like they were taking money from his safe, so they probably just pocketed it.
It makes it malice aforethought. It's simply conscious intent to cause death.
This man had to follow them outside, and his interview strongly suggests he was under no such influence.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I really like this new "He is so old, the law does not apply to him" defense being trotted out by at least 2 posters now.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Not all people. People don't rape because they need to. They do it because they want to feel powerful the opposite of the scum they are. Neither are serial killers. Yea, most are probably for desperation from poverty or addiction or something else.
Agreeing with you, but just posting this for the arguement's sake.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...t-burglar-face-charges-cops-article-1.1879554
Well based on the facts as presented here, I hope they don't charge the old man with anything and I predict they won't. The police are stating that these two had robbed him twice before, so I'm assuming that was the case and he had contacted the police each time. Plus they attacked him and broke his collarbone... The right person to charge is the criminal who escaped, with felony murder, and it looks like they've done just that.
Well based on the facts as presented here, I hope they don't charge the old man with anything and I predict they won't. The police are stating that these two had robbed him twice before, so I'm assuming that was the case and he had contacted the police each time. Plus they attacked him and broke his collarbone... The right person to charge is the criminal who escaped, with felony murder, and it looks like they've done just that.
- Status