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[Daffy Duck]

Tell that to the baby

Also is a human life really of no value to you? shameful

Well the recklessness of the mother sealed that poor childs fate, she is equally to blame for the outcome.

Feel sorry for all parties involved to be honest. Wha a horrible outcome, the accomplice to all this has last not only his girlfriend but a child too.

Such a sorry story.

 

[Nephtis]

So if they stood there ground instead o running then shooting them would've been ok?

Well no, but I mean, I just don't see why it's necessary to shoot them when they are running away from him. If they had tried to tackle him again or come at him at all while he had the gun, then I could see the use of it being justified, easily.

And again, the fact that he claims to be a good Christian is especially jarring. A "good Christian" doesn't do that kind of thing. He wasn't under any threat any longer.

 

[massoluk]

The intruder wasn't a threat anymore, she's guilty of attempted robbery, dude is guilty of murder.

 

[jonno394]

Well no, but I mean, I just don't see why it's necessary to shoot them when they are running away from him. If they had tried to tackle him again or come at him at all while he had the gun, then I could see the use of it being justified, easily.

And again, the fact that he claims to be a good Christian is especially jarring. A "good Christian" doesn't do that kind of thing. He wasn't under any threat any longer.

The way I look at it is they've done it three times, they'd have done it again if he hadn't pulled his gun. I have no sympathy for the girl, as her choices led her to that situation BUT I feel the old man overreacted and simply waving the gun around might have had the effect of never having them come round and rob him again. Killing her was unecessary.

Until we're in the situation when we're an 80 year old man with a broken collar bone and on the back of two previous burgularies then we can't say for sure how we'd have reacted in the same situation.

 

[Nickle]

I never said they were innocent. They were most definitely guilty, but murder is murder. Regardless if you want to call this murder, manslaughter, or anything else, shooting a pregnant woman in the back is just wrong.

How does it matter that she's a pregnant woman? And why does it matter if her back was turned? They robbed his house 4 times, and they could have easily came back and beat him up again (or worse). Just because she wasn't an immediate threat does not mean that she couldn't hurt him in the future.

 

[SigSig]

Shooting someone fleeing from you in the back and killing them is wrong, no matter what the circumstances are.
Yes, terrorizing people is bad. Both of them were major big time criminal assholes.
Terrorizing an old man? Even worse. Vile scumbags. Criminal vile scumbags, sure.
No consequences for their behaviour? Horrible.
I'm not even being sarcastic here, it's a terrible situation and I can see why he shot her. But it still wasn't the right thing to do and anyone suggesting it was is really fucked up.

How does it matter that she's a pregnant woman? And why does it matter if her back was turned? They robbed his house 4 times, and they could have easily came back and beat him up again (or worse). Just because she wasn't an immediate threat does not mean that she couldn't hurt him in the future.

So you believe shooting someone in the back, killing them in the process is the right thing to do after being beaten up?
What is your opinion on school shootings? Some of those guys also got beaten up, injured, ganged up upon, mobbed etc. Does this justify murder?

 

[Finaika]

How does it matter that she's a pregnant woman? And why does it matter if her back was turned? They robbed his house 4 times, and they could have easily came back and beat him up again (or worse). Just because she wasn't an immediate threat does not mean that she couldn't hurt him in the future.

You're killing 2 lives if you shoot a pregnant woman.

 

[Nephtis]

The way I look at it is they've done it three times, they'd have done it again if he hadn't pulled his gun. I have no sympathy for the girl, as her choices led her to that situation BUT I feel the old man overreacted and simply waving the gun around might have had the effect of never having them come round and rob him again. Killing her was unecessary.

Until we're in the situation when we're an 80 year old man with a broken collar bone and on the back of two previous burgularies then we can't say for sure how we'd have reacted in the same situation.

Then... We agree that killing her was unnecessary.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Meh. Don't have any sympathy for two robbers who thought it was a good idea to break into an old man's home. No tears from me.

This. They don't want to obey the rules but expect the victim to?

With that said still gotta know the rules of engagement. Can't shoot people in the back. Stops being self defense when the burglar/robber is fleeing. Technically you're no longer in danger.

Manslaughter seems likely.

 

[afternoon delight]

Well they obviously chose the wrong prey.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

No sympathy for criminals. Especially ones who repeatedly terrorize the same elderly man. Not all life is equal.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So if I get this right:

1) This is the 3rd time they've broken into the guy's home
2) They tackled him and broke his collar bone
3) He tells the guy, "go and help yourself to the garage so you can find a tool to open the safe with (cause I aint giving you the key)"
4) Somehow, he sneaks about and gets his gun
5) Girl yells she's pregnant while running away
6) He shoots at both of them, but gets her twice

Dude said he was a good Christian -- Christians don't go around shooting people. Using the gun as a deterrent is great, and I can understand that he was pissed, but you don't shoot people in the back while they run..

Though it could've been worse. It could have been like the guy that set things up and killed those kids trying to rob his house

I agree that you don't shoot someone in the back as they're running away. But it's easy when I say that as I sit comfortably behind my keyboard. But it's a little but different when two people are breaking the rules, breaking bones, violating my home and threatening my life.

I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong but to me some of what he was put through should be taken into consideration. It's not like he found them they ran and then he opened fire.

No sympathy for criminals. Especially ones who repeatedly terrorize the same elderly man. Not all life is equal.

Yea I don't feel particularly sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the unborn kid to have such an irresponsible mother to think its a good idea to go around brutalizing people.

 

[youngplaya21]

Protecting your family and protecting your property aren't the same thing.

Well how about protecting yourself?? It's not like not doing anything helped the first two times.

 

[Nickle]

You're killing 2 lives if you shoot a pregnant woman.

I don't consider fetuses to be fully human, but I don't want to get into that here.

Besides, I can't imagine that baby having an enjoyable and prosperous life if his/her mother is the type of person that attacks and robs weak and innocent people.

 

[The Technomancer]

Man, this thread is just sad all around... Hell I swore I even read some people being cool with their daughters being raped and them not stopping the rapist. I wonder what everyone's tone would be like if instead of an old man it was a father protecting his family

Well she wasn't violently threatening anyone

And she was trying to run away at the time he shot her

So I think its rather different

 

[Bundy]

And then twice?
Ugh......

 

[King Cobra]

If the mom was doing something this stupid while pregnant I feel no sympathy what so ever.

 

[Lashley]

the same type of person that robs a home when they're not pregnant?

Yes, scum.

 

[Nephtis]

I agree that you don't shoot someone in the back as they're running away. But it's easy when I say that as I sit comfortably behind my keyboard. But it's a little but different when two people are breaking the rules, breaking bones, violating my home and threatening my life.

I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong but to me some of what he was put through should be taken into consideration. It's not like he found them they ran and then he opened fire.



Yea I don't feel particularly sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the unborn kid to have such an irresponsible mother to think its a good idea to go around brutalizing people.

Right, and I agree with you and Jonno. Being in that situation makes it incredibly hard to come up with the right course of action. And I do think he had every right to defend himself, but as you said, rules of engagement and all. I don't think the consequences should be harsh but he should not get a free pass either

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I think I will start off with my 'safe' portion of my answer and say that until we know all the details regarding the case, her pregnancy and the police' handling of the previous robberies I can't give a full comment on whether I think he was right or wrong in a legal sense.

Now with regards to the whole "The guy is a psychopath, a pregnant woman was begging for her life" etc.
Have you ever watched any worldstar videos where the 'bad' guy in a situation is picking on a 'weaker' person and the weaker person wins? No matter what they do, the 'bad' guys friends cheer them on with no concern of the outcome of their actions. Every single time that the 'weak' person manages to overcome the 'bad' guy and takes control of the situation you are guaranteed that the 'bad' guys friends will immediately claim 'that’s enough!!!!....You've gone too far!!!He's hurt!!!!' etc. as if it's some injustice what the weaker person is doing.

With some people, they either just don’t give a shit or are unable to comprehend that what they are doing is just as bad, if not a hell of a lot worse then what the 'weak' person is/has done in defence of themselves. The same goes for the 'pregnant' woman here, it was fine for her to rob this man 3 times, break his bones and most likely leave him in constant fear but as soon as the tables turn, suddenly mercy is demanded and she expects him to show her compassion?!

Well from the little facts we have, all I will say is fuck her! If she was that concerned for the wellbeing of her unborn child then she wouldn’t have put herself in such a dangerous situation in the first place, all while showing no compassion for the guy she kept targeting. Of course her life may be terrible and she feels she has no other choice but to do this but at the end of the day she felt she needed to keep robbing this man and he felt that he needed to shoot her to stop this happening again. In my mind both their opinions could be considered valid, not just hers.

 

[zoukka]

If the mom was doing something this stupid while pregnant I feel no sympathy what so ever.

What about the infant?

 

[UrbanRats]

Well how about protecting yourself?? It's not like not doing anything helped the first two times.

My point is, you start throwing hypotheticals around, you can spin any story however you like.
The man shot someone unarmed in the back, while they were running away, he wasn't in mortal danger anymore and shooting in that instance was the wrong thing to do, beyond what constitutes self defence.

Then i agree that him being left alone by authorities is the bigger issue in this all story.

 

[jonno394]

Then... We agree that killing her was unnecessary.

Yes, but i'm not gonna criticise the guy for shooting her and i'm not gonna feel any sympathy for her.

 

[King Cobra]

What about the infant?

How many months pregnant was she?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Right, and I agree with you and Jonno. Being in that situation makes it incredibly hard to come up with the right course of action. And I do think he had every right to defend himself, but as you said, rules of engagement and all. I don't think the consequences should be harsh but he should not get a free pass either

Yea I think we can agree on this.

 

[figadapaura]

Glad the guy is going to jail. Both committed crimes, one didn't deserve the punishment they got.

 

[Moosichu]

+1 to everything you said. She should have thought about what the possible outcome might be when they planned to rob this old man. The robbery went bad and now they want sympathy.

Yes, a foetus and a dead woman are now asking for our sympathy. what?

 

[rezuth]

How pregnant was she, was she fetus pregnant, or full on bloated stomach pregnant? Cause if she was running, it sounds like the former.

Edit: Also Page not found OP.

Does it matter? Is there some fine line for when it's okay to shoot a pregnant women or not?

 

[Nephtis]

Yes, but i'm not gonna criticise the guy for shooting her and i'm not gonna feel any sympathy for her.

To be clear, i don't feel any sympathy for her. She chose to put herself in that situation. I think the guy does deserve to be criticized for shooting her though -- what he did was still wrong, though as you and Mammoth said, in the heat of the moment it's very hard to be rational about it.

 

[dapperbandit]

How many months pregnant was she?

It's not certain she was pregnant at all.

Which tells you that either it was very early in the pregnancy or she just said she was in the hope he wouldn't shoot.

 

[P44]

Old man fucked up in a technical sense. He shouldn't have done it and it's better as a rule if he goes to prison for what he did, but after 3 times you can understand perhaps why he did it.

No sympathy for the lady, she put that kid at risk multiple times attacking the same house over and over.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Dont want to get shot? Dont fukin rob the guys house, its not like he shot without reason

I agree
I don't feel for the woman at all, if she was pregnant then why was she risking her unborn child's life by committing burglary?
If it was a man who'd been shot and killed no one would give a fuck.

 

[MickeyPhree]

It's not certain she was pregnant at all.

Which tells you that either it was very early in the pregnancy or she just said she was in the hope he wouldn't shoot.

Someone broke into my house, robbed me, broke my collar bone, and then expect me to believe them when they say their pregnant? Never been in this type of situation but I think I would take whatever a robber says with a grain of salt.

 

[Moosichu]

You're killing 2 lives if you shoot a pregnant woman.

The baby could have come back and robbed him as well.

By the way. The situation all round is bad. But if inequality continues to skyrocket as it is, things like this will only become more common.

 

[Yopis]

No sympathy for mom she put herself in a bad situation.

 

[Kacho]

Glad the guy is going to jail. Both committed crimes, one didn't deserve the punishment they got.

He's going to jail? Last I heard the police haven't charged the old man and they're thinking about placing all charges on the woman's accomplice.

 

[King Cobra]

It's not certain she was pregnant at all.

Which tells you that either it was very early in the pregnancy or she just said she was in the hope he wouldn't shoot.

THat is what my first thought was, if she just made that claim to stop him. Hopefully that helps the guy out in his case.

 

[MickeyPhree]

He's going to jail? Last I heard the police haven't charged the old man and they're thinking about placing all charges on the woman's accomplice.

The boyfriend has been arrested on charges if suspicion of resident burglary and murder.

 

[Diablos]

Er, maybe he would have a respectable defense if he shot them in his home, as he could say he was afraid of what they'd do to him, etc... which honestly could pass as being understandable. But if they were in the act of running away, outside of his home, even after assaulting him unlawfully taking off with his possessions, that should not mean he is allowed to kill someone. This is not self-defense, it's a man acting as a vigilante. The punishment does not fit the crime. This woman deserved some jail time, not murder. He should be arrested.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Does it matter? Is there some fine line for when it's okay to shoot a pregnant women or not?

When a pregnant woman breaks into a home, assaults the legal occupant, threatens them with violence yea regardless of gender and reproductive status I think it's perfectly acceptable to stop the threat by shooting them.

However we can't go around shooing peoppe in the back as they flee. It sucks for the person assaulted but the rules exist for a reason.

With that said she knew the risks of trying to live that life. That's on her.

 

[Diablos]

Please, Mammoth Jones. He even mocks her begging for her life. It seems fairly clear that he pulled her out from underneath a vehicle either before or after killing her. All of this confirms the presence of his weapon was enough to scare them off and that is when he should have backed the fuck off.

I understand this was not their first attempt of robbing him, I understand that they did hurt him, and they had bad intentions. They deserved to be jailed for robbery and assault. But the cops were on their asses and he had no right to continue to pursue them and take the law into his own hands by killing someone. Way too extreme, even after listening to his account/confession of the events that transpired. He is way out of line and needs to be arrested.

"Good Christian" my ass. He knows he's a man with not much time left on this earth and he wanted to make an outrageous statement.

 

[figadapaura]

He's going to jail? Last I heard the police haven't charged the old man and they're thinking about placing all charges on the woman's accomplice.

Oh must have misread :/

 

[waypoetic]

Does anyone ever aim for the legs?

Taking a life seems excessive.

 

[Finaika]

The baby could have come back and robbed him as well.

Are you serious?

 

[Josh7289]

The 80-year-old man belongs in prison for the rest of his life.

 

[Nephtis]

Are you serious?

whoosh

 

[chadderbox77]

Wow, the dude is ice cold in the video. No regrets and says "I'm a good Christian." Chilling. And the way he smiles when he's talking about moving the key so they couldn't find it. He is very happy with himself.

 

[Diablos]

He's going to jail? Last I heard the police haven't charged the old man and they're thinking about placing all charges on the woman's accomplice.

Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, her accomplice should do some time, but so should the old man. He went TOO FAR. Neither side is innocent.

If he isn't punished for what he did this will be another clear example as to how fucked up our justice system is.

 

[Woody Invincible]

You rob a house, expect to get shot at. Call it temporary insanity if you will, but being violated like that will put anybody into a different state of mind. As a juror, I couldn't see myself convicting people for things like this.

 

[Diablos]

You rob a house, expect to get shot at. Call it temporary insanity if you will, but being violated like that will put anybody into a different state of mind. As a juror, I couldn't see myself convicting people for things like this.

Did you hear him insulting her begging for her life? He then goes on to say he basically did it with no regrets and to punish her boyfriend/husband, as though he were above the law. He knew what he did. He has no regrets, plainly stated. His state of mind in that video is clear. He should be in jail.