Man shoots and kills intruder. Police determine she was not pregnant.
- Thread starter MThanded
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Ding ding!
It's really scary how people think about crime these days.
No one is saying this girl is a saint. We're saying she deserved to be locked up for robbery and assault. She would have been if he didn't murder her for no legitimate reason.
travisbickle
Member
The old man believed he shot a pregnant woman, no opinions need to change in the thread except for the ones who said she is the worst person in the world for stealing while pregnant.
Now we are at the internet's favourite moral quandary, is lying when you're life is threatened worse/better than killing someone when your life is threatened?
Now we are at the internet's favourite moral quandary, is lying when you're life is threatened worse/better than killing someone when your life is threatened?
Officerrob
Banned
The lady was scum for robbing and assaulting an 80 year old man, making-up a lie to try and save your life when someone is shooting at you is something just about everyone would do.
speculawyer
Member
Well seemed to want to cultivate that image. There were running away and screaming in fear . . . but I shot 'em anyways!
timetokill
Banned
I doubt she made it up on the spot. it sounds like something she had planned to use in case of trouble, which actually makes her seem worse.
I don't know, is claiming "I'm pregnant" a typical go-to for women in danger?
Uh, no.
Delta Assault
Member
Maybe fat women.
Winterfang
Banned
That depends, did you got your life threatened by committing multiple crimes against the same person?
Marty Chinn
Member
We don't know that. There's no guarantee she would have even been caught or found by the police.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
No, I just think thats the difference between trigger happy US where people think they have to defend themself because society can't do it and by giving people the means to defened themself creating the problem in the first place, and europe, where people rely on society.
If I would spot a burglar in my home I would leave him the fuck alone and call the police.
I won't put anyone in danger over some stuff insurance pays for anyways.
That said, I live near a big city and never wasted a thought about getting robbed. I leave my backdoor open most of the time even when I'm not at home, If someone wants to get in he gets in easily. That actually proved to be quite helpful when I forgot my keys.
Maybe I'm a little weird in that regard but I think self defense should only be allowed when others want to physically harm you. If you can run away there is no need to defend yourself with violence, so you should always run away if possible.
That way nobody gets hurt.
This might not be a viable option when it will result in financial damages for you, but I think modern society is advanced enough to take some riscs from the individual.
Some countries offer that, but many do not. I think solidarity is important and it makes life a lot more safe for the individual.
I like that I don't have to worry about many things because society has my back. I don't think I would feel more safe if I had a shotgun in my closet instead.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Anything except not break into peoples homes and violently attack them?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I ain't saying he should have killed her but I understand. You in your own home and these people keep coming back to rob and now brutalize you. It's have anyone not thinking straight.
I agree. None of us know how we'd react in such a situation. There are guys with guns in their home that talk big shit about how they'd blow someone's head off if someone broke in who will throw their weapon down and crawl into a ball and cry for their momma when the moment actually arrives. And there's also quiet guys you'd never think had the balls to stand up for themselves wouldn't hesitate for a moment to do what's necessary. Or like this guy...you get repeatedly violated and had enough.
Winterfang
Banned
Things are different where you are from. For example where I am, if someone breaks my house and I happen to be there, is pretty much a dead sentence. No criminal wants to get into jail and they will either beat you up (like they did with the old man) or downright kill you in order to shut you up.
Opinions like this are the root of what's wrong with America. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore. Society didn't owe these two losers anything, and that old man held her accountable for her actions. I have zero sympathy for what happens to scum who perform home invasions. Further, when you get to be that age broken bones can often be a death sentence. The criminals clearly had no regard for his own life, and turnabout is fair play.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Your perspective will change if you ever have your door kicked in and a gun put to your head.
I still haven't bought a gun in response like my friends have told me to, but I don't have any sympathy at all for the people who robbed me in my own apartment at gunpoint. They made a choice, and as such are bound by any consequences.
I no longer felt safe in my apartment and had to move away.
I still haven't bought a gun in response like my friends have told me to, but I don't have any sympathy at all for the people who robbed me in my own apartment at gunpoint. They made a choice, and as such are bound by any consequences.
I no longer felt safe in my apartment and had to move away.
All of this is based on a fantasy where you see somebody, assess, and have the option to leave. This guy is 80 years old and had two much younger people beating on him. They left/stopped when he pulled a gun. If he hadn't, what would have happened? We have no idea. Maybe he'd be dead, maybe he'd be broke, maybe they would have politely excused themselves, driven him to the hospital, and given up their life of crime. The situation escalated unfortunately, but you're acting like he snuck up on and executed people stealing a few things. If there's somebody in your house beating on you, you have no idea if you'll get up again. It's not over "stuff".
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
... they brought a gun?
Still, sorry to hear you went through the situation. But it's not comparable in this situation. I would think your situation was considerably more traumatizing.
Vicetrailia
Banned
You certainly do not live in a place where criminals walk in guns blazing.
Killing_Joke
Member
Is he supposed to cry for the people who tried to hurt him? He didn't have to share ANY of that info with the cops but he did. He's not looking to get away from free murder. Or else he could have just told a different story to help him a tad more, don't you think? I'll rather the man be honest then a self served bullshit lie to get out of jail.
He should have let her go and i wish he did. But multiple robberies and now physical abuse. I'm pretty sure i can understand this mans emotions where a tad out of control.
The_Inquisitor
Member
I have a thread somewhere from a few years ago. Basically they kicked in my door at 1am in the morning. Instinctually I ran and pushed against the door. They fired a round through the door. I back up and then was held at gunpoint with a revolver while one guy constantly told me he was going to fucking kill me.
Tesseract
Banned
100% ether
CeramicDragon
Banned
Amen to this. I hate those born again Christians who served jail time and are changed. What about me? I never served jail time,
Mammoth Jones
Member
Beating an 80 year old man isn't comparable?
Pointing a gun at someone = Threatening with death
Beating an old man while demanding property = Threatening with death
Kacho
Member
So much this. I agree that killing someone is not a good thing, but he did what he felt he had to do to make it stop. I don't believe for a second that's he's a bad man, a human hunter, or a monster.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yea I remember that thread. Was fucking terrifying just reading it. Same thing happened to my neighbor downstairs. She was 63. They kicked in at 2am demanded money or other valuables and they pistol whipped her.
Some people through their actions allow themselves to become animals.
100% appeal to emotion. 100% faulty reasoning.
kurtrussell
Banned
Wow. She wasn't pregnant.
So not only did she rob the same vulnerable person three times, but her final act on this planet was to lie to an old man too? What a waste of oxygen.
So not only did she rob the same vulnerable person three times, but her final act on this planet was to lie to an old man too? What a waste of oxygen.
The_Inquisitor
Member
My reasoning was that any valuables I had were replaceable. I told them to take what they wanted and get the fuck out. Probably why I got out unscathed. I still like to say it was the most important negotiation of my life.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Home invaders with guns are unpredictable. A gun changes the scenario considerably.
NJDEN
Member
Well put. I agree with this statement 110%... People do idiotic crap that gets them in trouble, then suddenly its everybody else's fault.
ambientmystic
Member
Exactly.
The thing is, he'll now be held accountable for his actions too, the means of which has yet to be decided by the authorities.
This isn't over yet for the old man, unfortunately.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I agree with that posters sentiments.
It's easy to be a keyboard lawyer and know the exact actions that are justifiable under the law in a given scenario. It's a whole other ballgame when you're 80, been burglarized before and now they back and breaking your bones. Legal or not isn't even the issue. It's just a matter of human nature. We'd all like to imagine we'd play it the right way but there's really no way to know.
Being threatened with violence is STILL being threatened with violence. Sure the gun "changes the scenario" but you know what doesn't change? The fact that you're being threatened with mortal violence.
You absolutely made the right choice. Please don't get me wrong. Your shit can be replaced. You can't. I'd like to imagine I'd be able to fight back. I'd like to think I'd be able to get to my gun and fight back. But real life isn't an action movie. There's a very real chance I'd get caught in the same scenario and I'd do the same thing.
Christ I wanna move and get a house somewhere safe, lol.
I don't think I would have shot her, but I think I understand...
I'm over 80 years old, I'm alone and vulnerable. My home, where I should be feeling safe, is continuously broken into. The police can't seem to help. I come home one day and I am confronted by two people who violently assault me. They keep me hostage in my own home whilst they try and steal from me yet again. I don't know if they're going to kill me after they've stolen from me. I don't know if they'll use my own gun against me if they find it. If I do get out of it alive, what's to stop them just coming back and finishing the job? Why are these people allowed to make me feel this way? How are these people allowed to take away all my security, my power, my ability to live out my years without fear? This is just getting worse every day and nobody seems to be able to find a way of stopping it.
So yeah, I can envision a scenario where as an old man I could feel that way. Of course there could be a thousand ways the scene actually played out.
I'm over 80 years old, I'm alone and vulnerable. My home, where I should be feeling safe, is continuously broken into. The police can't seem to help. I come home one day and I am confronted by two people who violently assault me. They keep me hostage in my own home whilst they try and steal from me yet again. I don't know if they're going to kill me after they've stolen from me. I don't know if they'll use my own gun against me if they find it. If I do get out of it alive, what's to stop them just coming back and finishing the job? Why are these people allowed to make me feel this way? How are these people allowed to take away all my security, my power, my ability to live out my years without fear? This is just getting worse every day and nobody seems to be able to find a way of stopping it.
So yeah, I can envision a scenario where as an old man I could feel that way. Of course there could be a thousand ways the scene actually played out.
That's what we have police for. If they aren't doing their job, then that needs to be fixed. It doesn't mean we should switch to a vigilante justice system.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Where were the police when he was on the ground getting stomped?
this is some weird victim blaming
Ultimadrago
Member
I had a hunch she wasn't actually pregnant. I'm just glad an unborn child wasn't involved/extinguished due to the foolish actions of this woman and her partner-in-crime.
speculawyer
Member
He should have been angry as all fuck and I wouldn't have blamed him if he shot at their legs.
But you can't you can't shoot to kill fucking loser thieves that are not on your property and running away. You can shoot them in the face if they break into your house and are threatening you though.
Sometimes you have to just take the L.
Well, my intention was to emphasize the brutality of executing a fleeing person, regardless of the weapon used, but it seemed to miss its mark with you. I am not surprised this occurs, but that is no justification for the way things are. If we were truly animals, then why do we punish murderers, or rapists, or thieves for falling towards their baser instincts?
We speak of justice, but then judge the woman for her actions, and the man for his intentions. In reality, all remarks about intentions are pure speculation, and the only truth is that a woman, with her back turned, fleeing, was executed, and what horrifies me more than the act itself are the people in this thread who would celebrate her death.
Same here. Got what they deserved as I have absolutely no sympathy for those that prey on others. I doubt anyone else will try to fuck with the old man.
This has needed to be fixed for... oh, I'm going to say upwards of 40 years? At what point are we OK to give up on hoping for better?
So they robbed the dude multiple times, harassing and attacking him all the while? And he's reported this to the authorities and no one helped him those times he reported?
That's kinda atrocious. He wanted his harassment to stop, and no one was helping him. Is he wrong for taking matters into his own hands? No. Is he wrong for killing the lady? Well no, she robbed him 'multiple times'. She got what she deserved.
That's kinda atrocious. He wanted his harassment to stop, and no one was helping him. Is he wrong for taking matters into his own hands? No. Is he wrong for killing the lady? Well no, she robbed him 'multiple times'. She got what she deserved.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The police's job isn't to ALWAYS be present when a crime is being comitted. You'd need a cop every 6 feet at all times. That's not realistic.
Cops come when they get a call. Usually in a few minutes. And that's in urban/suburban areas. In more rural locations they can take a very long time.
Experiencing it doesn't magically change it from a moral wrong into a moral right. This "you don't know what it's like" bullshit is such a copout. "Heh, you only disagree because you just don't know, man."
Being sad or angry or tired of dealing with their shit does not give you the moral authority to execute them as they run away from you. My "perspective" will not change if someone points a gun at me ("heh, you only say that because you just don't know, man!").
Like I said, it's a lazy appeal to emotion.
Exactly.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I don't think it changes the morality. I think morality can go out the window when you get your ass beat into the floor. And yes there's emotional discussions we're not robots. It's called empathy. I feel more of it for him than I do the three people breaking into homes.
It's easy to be a rational robot on the internet, lol.
This is why people (legally) carry guns in the first place. Cops are too heavy.
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