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[Chariot]

Do you consider this "oppression and murder"?

I am not sure the palestinians love the judean desert and areas that are cut off from the rest of the area.

 

[Toxi]

Do you consider this "oppression and murder"?

Please tell me you're joking.

The West Bank gives Israel peace and you think Israel should carve them out?

 

[mysocksarepink]

this shit is heartbreaking

 

[JordanN]

I am not sure the palestinians love the judean desert and areas that are cut off from the rest of the area.

And I'm sure the Israelis love the idea of not being attacked everyday.
If that was agreed to, you can bet there would be an end to the fighting.

 

[zer0blivion]

Do you consider this "oppression and murder"?

No, that is fantasy. This is oppression and murder:

Question:
Which of these buildings house Hamas militants?

Answer: Every single one apparently.

 

[Chariot]

And I'm sure the Israelis love the idea of not being attacked everyday.

Hey, the palestinians have the same fear, they both should shake hands.

 

[Hamlet Machine]

In those situations, the soliders should be punished, and i hope it is not the policy of the IDF.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this is the case.

"Almost all those using children as human shields and informants have remained unpunished and the soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year-old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted," it said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

 

[Toxi]

And I'm sure the Israelis love the idea of not being attacked everyday and that there can be peace.
If that was agreed to, you can bet there would be an end to the fighting.

You are calling for the annexation of people's land when they aren't attacking Israel. This has nothing to do with peace.

How do you look in the mirror and live with yourself?

 

[zer0blivion]

And I'm sure the Israelis love the idea of not being attacked everyday and that their can be peace.

Let me break it down for you with an analogy.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/24/amidst_brutal_operation_in_our_name

YONATAN SHAPIRA: And I think that if I have to give one allegory to this whole thing, and this need of Israel and me, myself, of self-protection—legitimate thing, by the way; I want to be safe, I don’t want anyone to bomb me and to kill me and my baby—I would imagine it as gang rape. And forgive me for using this hard language, but when you have a group of people raping someone, and this person that is being raped starting to scratch, the first thing you want to do in order to stop the scratches is to stop the rape. And what Israel, official Israel, is trying to do is to continue the rape and deal with the scratches. And I say, stop the rape, stop the occupation, stop the apartheid, stop this inhumane ghettoization of Palestinians, and then—then—we can start talking, and we can reach peace agreements and all these beautiful words that now don’t mean anything for us.

 

[JordanN]

You are calling for the annexation of people's land when they aren't attacking Israel. This has nothing to do with peace.

How do you look in the mirror and live with yourself?

I just want to see a two state solution where no one has to fear being hit by a rocket just by stepping outside your house.

I don't think that's asking for much, unless you see Israelis deserving violence for some reason. Also, did you not see the Palestinians would annex some of Israel's land in return?

 

[m_shortpants]

I just want to see a two state solution where no one has to fear being hit by a rocket just by stepping outside your house.

I don't think that's asking for much, unless you see Israelis deserving violence for some reason. Also, did you not see the Palestinians would annex some of Israel's land in return?

And I'm sure the Palestinians want a state where they can move around freely and not be under occupation. Oh and one which isn't continuously being settled upon. Which Israel has not obliged to the West Bank.

 

[Toxi]

I just want to see a two state solution where no one has to fear being hit by a rocket just by stepping outside your house.

I don't think that's asking for much, unless you see Israelis deserving violence for some reason.

You want a two-state solution where the people of the West Bank give up much of their land to Israel even though they already have done everything they can to capitulate to Israel's demands.

The idea of compromise is that both sides give something. You cannot seriously ask for a compromise that looks like this.

Also, did you not see the Palestinians would annex some of Israel's land in return?

The fucking desert?

 

[Ashes]

I just want to see a two state solution where no one has to fear being hit by a rocket just by stepping outside your house.

As long as its not Israeli casualties, who cares really?

 

[JordanN]

And I'm sure the Palestinians want a state where they can move around freely and not be under occupation. Oh and one which isn't continuously being settled upon. Which Israel has not obliged to the West Bank.

Such BS. You might as well say everyone is occupied then.

The fucking desert?

You don't think Israel has deserts either?
What do you think lower Israel is? Israel is pretty smart and have turned deserts into their own advantage (i.e solar farms and kibbutzim).

 

[Quotient]

The idea of compromise is that both sides give something. You cannot seriously ask for a compromise that looks like this.

There is no comprise. The Israeli's have all the power and they can dictate the terms. As much as it sucks, if that plan is accurate, it might have been the best option for the Palestinians.

 

[Toxi]

Such BS. You might as well say everyone is occupied then.

They have a foreign military controlling their movements within their borders. What the hell are we supposed to call it?

You don't think Israel has deserts either?

You think the land being annexed to Israel is desert?

It's pretty obvious that this land redistribution is lopsided.

There is no comprise. The Israeli's have all the power and they can dictate the terms. As much as it sucks, if that plan is accurate, it might have been the best option for the Palestinians.

So basically, the best option for the Palestinians is to get buttfucked even after they stop attacking Israel.

And you wonder why Gaza voted for Hamas?

 

[Chariot]

You don't think Israel has deserts either?
What do you think lower Israel is?

I am sorry, with all due respect: are you a bit slow?
Israel is taking valuable land and give the palestinian parts of their desert. And you think there is nothing wrong? It's fair, because Israel has already a lot of desert?

 

[Quotient]

So basically, the best option for the Palestinians is to get buttfucked even after they stop attacking Israel.

So what other option do they have? They lost the war and their resistance is only hurting them more.

 

[Quotient]

I am sorry, with all due respect: are you a bit slow?
Israel is taking valuable land and give the palestinian parts of their desert. And you think there is nothing wrong? It's fair, because Israel has already a lot of desert?

As part of the UN partition Israel was given the Negev desert, while the Palestinians were given the more habitable land. Sometimes you have to deal with the cards you have been dealt.

 

[Chariot]

So what other option do they have? They lost the war and their resistance is only hurting them more.

Oh my, now we're arrived at that point.

As part of the UN partition Israel was given the Negev desert, while the Palestinians were given the more habitable land. Sometimes you have to deal with the cards you have been dealt.

Really, in the grand scheme of things, it sure doesn't look good for palestina. Plus remember illegal israel settlements?

 

[mysocksarepink]

would this be similar to the US army invading an inner city, slaughtering, and carpet bombing, because there are known gang members living there among civilians (that also happen to be shooting cops)

 

[zer0blivion]

Such BS. You might as well say everyone is occupied then.

Occupation has a specific definition under international law.

Is Gaza Still Occupied and Why Does It Matter?
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8807/is-gaza-still-occupied-and-why-does-it-matter

 

[curlyfriski]

What is nuance, eh? Again, it is so tiring how people have to try to pigeonhole everything I say into the pro-Israel/Pro-Palestine camp. It's like you have to ascertain what "side" I'm on before you decide how you should feel about my comments. Pretty fucking childish.

Oh come off it. 99% of your posts in the various threads since the conflict began have been justifications of Israeli actions. At least be honest about where your sympathies lie.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Can someone explain the law and its material existence where Israel breaks it by killing civilians if they are around military targets ?

 

[yarden24]

I am sorry, with all due respect: are you a bit slow?
Israel is taking valuable land and give the palestinian parts of their desert. And you think there is nothing wrong? It's fair, because Israel has already a lot of desert?

Firstly, Saying with all due respect before insulting someone does not make you look like less of an ass.

Secondly, that is by far the best solution the Palestinians could ever hope for bar a one state solution, the big settlement blocks are there, and it isn't possible for Israel to evict hundreds thousands of Israelis, no government will ever be able too, it may not to be fair historically ,but the situation has changed from 67.

even Abbas said he was going to agree to that very proposal before elmurt was convicted.

 

[Quotient]

Oh my, now we're arrived at that point.Really, in the grand scheme of things, it sure doesn't look good for palestina. Plus remember illegal israel settlements?

What is wrong with that "point"?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Hamas: And we came here not as conquerors, but as liberators to return control of this city to the people.

"But we can't accept peace for some reason."

"You will get peace.......just after we murder 1000 of you", yea Isreal loves peace.

 

[Toxi]

So what other option do they have? They lost the war and their resistance is only hurting them more.

I don't know, how about Israel doesn't coerce the West Bank into giving up their land after they've already lain down arms?

Firstly, Saying with all due respect before insulting someone does not make you look like less of an ass.

Secondly, that is by far the best solution the Palestinians could ever hope for bar a one state solution, the big settlement blocks are there, and it isn't possible for Israel to evict hundreds thousands of Israelis, no government will ever be able too, it may not to be fair historically ,but the situation has changed from 67.

even Abbas said he was going to agree to that very proposal before elmurt was convicted.

And now you basically revealed the reason why Israel is building illegal settlements.

 

[KtSlime]

As part of the UN partition Israel was given the Negev desert, while the Palestinians were given the more habitable land. Sometimes you have to deal with the cards you have been dealt.

Isn't this more like "sometimes the other player will forcibly take your cards and offer to give you a few of their bad ones and you have to play those or else"?

 

[Toxi]

Isn't this more like "sometimes the other player will forcibly take your cards and offer to give you a few of their bad ones and you have to play those or else"?

Yeah.

But also you keep stealing good cards from their hand and then say that those cards will have to be yours if the other player wants to reach an agreement.

 

[zer0blivion]

Isn't this more like "sometimes the other player will forcibly take your cards and offer to give you a few of their bad ones and you have to play those or else"?

Zionist Israel is a bully.

 

[GYODX]

Oh come off it. 99% of your posts in the various threads since the conflict began have been justifications of Israeli actions. At least be honest about where your sympathies lie.

The very first comments I posted were greeted the exact same way as every other comment I have posted since.

Where my sympathies lie? I recognize that the Palestinian side is suffering a hell of a lot more than the Israeli side, and I recognize that they have many legitimate qualms. I have repeatedly said that I do not condone Israel's general oppression of Palestinians and that I recognize that many of its actions run contrary to International Law. At same time, I believe that Hamas in general shoulders more of the blame for the current escalation in violence, and that the situation is more nuanced than "Zomg the IDF is so evil! Is Hamas really a terrorist organization?", which is what most of the rhetoric in this thread can be summed up as. And just because of that, people assume that my position is one of unconditional support for the Israelis.

So with that said, how about you tell me where you think my sympathies lie?

 

[Chariot]

Firstly, Saying with all due respect before insulting someone does not make you look like less of an ass.

Secondly, that is by far the best solution the Palestinians could ever hope for bar a one state solution, the big settlement blocks are there, and it isn't possible for Israel to evict hundreds thousands of Israelis, no government will ever be able too, it may not to be fair historically ,but the situation has changed from 67.

even Abbas said he was going to agree to that very proposal before elmurt was convicted.

First: yes. Yes it don't. It's purpose was to indicate that I would normally write less nice things.
Second: Isn't that precious. After Israel bully and destroy palestini settlements to take the space for their own. Let's look it in the eye. Israel wants it all and wants it now.

What is wrong with that "point"?

Did you just ask me whats wrong with "might makes right"?

 

[Toxi]

"We don't defend the illegal settlements, but we're fine with peace plans that annex those areas because how can Israel evict thousands of people?"

Well gee, they're not afraid to evict thousands of people in Gaza.

 

[devilhawk]

would this be similar to the US army invading an inner city, slaughtering, and carpet bombing, because there are known gang members living there among civilians (that also happen to be shooting cops)

Might be the worst analogy I have heard yet.

You do realize what carpet bombing is, right?

More people died in one night of the US actually carpet bombing Tokyo then have died in all Israeli missiles.

 

[Skyzard]

Might be the worst analogy I have heard yet.

You do realize what carpet bombing is, right?

More people died in one night of the US actually carpet bombing Tokyo then have died in all Israeli missiles.

Tokyo's houses were closely stacked and made of wood - the US used incendiary weapons to burn them.

Is that the standard we are holding Israel to?

 

[yarden24]

I don't know, how about Israel doesn't coerce the West Bank into giving up their land after they've already lain down arms?


And now you basically revealed the reason why Israel is building illegal settlements.

I would say the reason Israel is building illegal settlements is so they could take all of the land, not return other parts of Israel to the Palestinians as compensation

but the thing is, the leaders in Israel change all the time, I'm sure Olmert that proposed the plan would have been much happier if the settlements hadn't existed in the first place, but they are there, and you will not get a better plan then that,ever.

Fair has nothing to do with it, its either this(or something that makes the Palestinians worse of) or a one state solution in 50 years from now.

 

[curlyfriski]

The very first comments I posted were greeted the exact same way as every other comment I have posted since.

Where my sympathies lie? I recognize that the Palestinian side is suffering a hell of a lot more than the Israeli side, and I recognize that they have many legitimate qualms. I have repeatedly said that I do not condone Israel's general oppression of Palestinians and that I recognize that many of its actions run contrary to International Law. At same time, I believe that Hamas in general shoulders more of the blame for the current escalation in violence, and that the situation is more nuanced than "Zomg the IDF is so evil! Is Hamas really a terrorist organization?", which is what most of the rhetoric in this thread can be summed up as. And just because of that, people assume that my position is one of unconditional support for the Israelis.

So with that said, how about you tell me where you think my sympathies lie?

I just said where I thought your sympathies lie. And it's rich that you claim to be nuanced considering the bolded.

 

[devilhawk]

Tokyo's houses were made of wood and the US used incendiary weapons to burn them.

Is that the standard we are holding Israel to?

No, not defending Israel's actions. Just pointing out the comparison of Israel to "carpet bombing" is ridiculous.

 

[speculawyer]

Do you consider this "oppression and murder"?

Looks like a gerrymandering district. We get cities. ..have some desert to make up for it.

 

[Ashes]

At same time, I believe that Hamas in general shoulders more of the blame for the current escalation in violence.

I agree. They are both being dicks. Israel just slaughtered nearly a thousand people.

 

[m_shortpants]

Such BS. You might as well say everyone is occupied then.


You don't think Israel has deserts either?
What do you think lower Israel is? Israel is pretty smart and have turned deserts into their own advantage (i.e solar farms and kibbutzim).

Wait. You don't think the West Bank is under occupation?

 

[LNBL]

The very first comments I posted were greeted the exact same way as every other comment I have posted since.

Where my sympathies lie? I recognize that the Palestinian side is suffering a hell of a lot more than the Israeli side, and I recognize that they have many legitimate qualms. I have repeatedly said that I do not condone Israel's general oppression of Palestinians and that I recognize that many of its actions run contrary to International Law. At same time, I believe that Hamas in general shoulders more of the blame for the current escalation in violence, and that the situation is more nuanced than "Zomg the IDF is so evil! Is Hamas really a terrorist organization?", which is what most of the rhetoric in this thread can be summed up as. And just because of that, people assume that my position is one of unconditional support for the Israelis.

So with that said, how about you tell me where you think my sympathies lie?

Hamas shoulders most blame? How exactly?
I think recent revalations have proved that Netanyahu is to blame for the most part of this mess. He lied about the accusations which set several other actions in motion, that resulted in this conflict exploding.

 

[JordanN]

Wait. You don't think the West Bank is under occupation?

No. I'm saying in a two state solution, there would be no occupation.

 

[werks]

Suicide bombings have plummeted and essentially ended the second Intifada. Mission accomplished.

In regards the the hospital, it is still being investigated. Israel had admitted that it may have been an errant round on their part, but that there is possibility that it was a Hamas rocket that fell short. It has been reported that there have been a few Hamas rockets that have fallen short in the conflict, but were not newsworthy as they didnt result in any casualties.

I am not saying those incidents are excusable, but war is never pretty, and it is always the citizens who pay the heaviest price. There is plenty of blame on both sides.

The part you bolded was reported by CNN today. It's good to learn that Hamas is completely infallible when it comes to rocket technology. Maybe NASA should hit them up since Russia had locked out America from using their rockets to reach the ISS.

Well, I am out, you people are too emotional and irrational. Your hearts are in the right place though.

Lates.

You might want to do your research first.

IDF initially tried to blame Hamas for the attack. Then claimed that UNRWA was told of the attacked and asked to evacuate. How do you accidentally attack an UN shelter after warning the UNRWA about the attack? Ofcourse it doesn't make sense because the IDF is making it up as they go and can't keep their story straight.

OR

I wonder who I should belive

 

[GYODX]

I just said where I thought your sympathies lie. And it's rich that you claim to be nuanced considering the bolded.

And you disregard the rest of my post.

That I decided to poke fun at the general hysteria and hyperbolic tone of most of the comments in this thread speaks nothing to how nuanced my position is. It's like it's either all or nothing with you people.

 

[zer0blivion]

No. I'm saying in a two state solution, there would be no occupation.

Would you care to reply to the analogy I quoted, or did you read it?

 

[Toxi]

I would say the reason Israel is building illegal settlements is so they could take all of the land, not return other parts of Israel to the Palestinians as compensation

but the thing is, the leaders in Israel change all the time, I'm sure Olmert that proposed the plan would have been much happier if the settlements hadn't existed in the first place, but they are there, and you will not get a better plan then that,ever.

Fair has nothing to do with it, its either this(or something that makes the Palestinians worse of) or a one state solution in 50 years from now.

Why should the people of the West Bank believe Israel will stop there? They haven't stopped building illegal settlements yet.

Maybe in a few dozen years, we'll have to agree upon a new plan that just happens to include those new areas Israel keeps building illegal settlements in.

 

[RageBot]

This entire situation is the most severe case of victim blaming I've ever seen. I've even read people online today saying that if only Gazans didn't elect Hamas, they wouldn't be blown up!

Yeah, just like in the West Bank!
I mean, it's not like no one dies there, and they have 2.5 times the GDP of Gaza, right?

(Sure, the conditions there are still shit, but no rockets come from there, and no Israeli attacks that harm civilians).

 

[zer0blivion]

Yeah, just like in the West Bank!
I mean, it's not like no one dies there, and they have 2.5 times the GDP of Gaza, right?

(Sure, the conditions there are still shit, but no rockets come from there, and no Israeli attacks that harm civilians).

And illegal settlements exploded in growth when the west bank disarmed.