Twitch: Changes To Audio In VODS
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
I can tell you first hand how fucking awful and absurdly inaccurate these content ID algorithms are, after they were implemented in Soundcloud as well. I just uploaded some random little synth showcase I was screwing around with. No samples were used or anything that could remotely resemble something else. And yet it got insta-flagged as copyright infringement right after uploading it. Wouldn't even tell me whom I was "infringing" on.
I don't know what kind of idiots thought this type of technology is even close to ready to be implemented. The problems I experienced are just the tip of the iceberg concerning all the false positives that are happening. Another scenario could be that you use some sound that is part of a royalty free sample package (they're like the audio equivalent of stock photos used by designers) that is meant to be used by others. Whoever using this sound in a derivative work and is lucky enough to be the first to get listed under a content ID system is going to flag every other song that uses the same sound, and potentially cause an illicit shift of revenue. When you factor in stuff like this, Content ID just doesn't work period.
I don't know what kind of idiots thought this type of technology is even close to ready to be implemented. The problems I experienced are just the tip of the iceberg concerning all the false positives that are happening. Another scenario could be that you use some sound that is part of a royalty free sample package (they're like the audio equivalent of stock photos used by designers) that is meant to be used by others. Whoever using this sound in a derivative work and is lucky enough to be the first to get listed under a content ID system is going to flag every other song that uses the same sound, and potentially cause an illicit shift of revenue. When you factor in stuff like this, Content ID just doesn't work period.
Nahh, he's been doing that for awhile. He has a shit mic now, I think, so he's opting not to use a facecam until he gets a new mic.
Absurdity continues.
He's the head of Iron Galaxy studios for those unaware (Divekick, KI Season 2, etc). Anyway been at work all day and just caught up on the AMA stuff, I don't even understand what they're doing over there. If you take a lot of their responses at face value (ignoring the hilarious comment where the twitch guy asked if someone still beat their wife) it just creates the appearance that they are totally and grossly incompetent. Then if you assume that's not the case this was all non-answers and/or staying the course.
He's the head of Iron Galaxy studios for those unaware (Divekick, KI Season 2, etc). Anyway been at work all day and just caught up on the AMA stuff, I don't even understand what they're doing over there. If you take a lot of their responses at face value (ignoring the hilarious comment where the twitch guy asked if someone still beat their wife) it just creates the appearance that they are totally and grossly incompetent. Then if you assume that's not the case this was all non-answers and/or staying the course.
Wait, what?
Yeah, the CEO made a retort question about a user still beating their wife. I have no idea if that's a meme or legit shade at someone in the fighting game community.
He later deleted it, but this is the internet. That shit was saved in the form of imagery.
Yeah, pretty much. All aboard the CEOs get paid train.
It's apparently a loaded question rebuttal -- it wasn't literally asking about the user beating his wife, it was to make an example out of the question he was asking (that asking about why he still hates the FGC is a loaded question on an assumption the CEO cannot simply answer).
Surprised people haven't heard of that answer before but maybe I'm the only one that read this wiki article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
Here's the info they gave us. I have no idea where you go to file the counter claim.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo_emmett_shear_ask_me_almost/cjjo6vb
Guilty until proven innocent.
Yeah, false content matches should be illegal and in that second case their should be fraud charges against the company and uploader .
Lady Siara
Member
Great read from someone who follows Google closely. He thinks Twitch is floundering because the deal fell through.
Yoda
Member
Interesting read, on the point about storage space; given that Google already have a service for items similar to VoDs(YouTube) and it's become somewhat common practice to upload said VoDs to that very service anyway; would it really make sense to keep both?
PandaPandaPanda
Member
lol
Update: Highlight length limit removed, and VOD audio removal appeal button soon to be deployed.
https://twitter.com/Twitch/status/497567919887245313
Update: Highlight length limit removed, and VOD audio removal appeal button soon to be deployed.
https://twitter.com/Twitch/status/497567919887245313
Removing the highlight length limit was a good move. The tiny amount of added time it takes to save a whole video as a highlight instead of clicking "Save Forever" is enough of a speed bump that it'll help them cut down on their storage demands without taking away functionality from users.
It's also good that they're letting people appeal the mutes. YouTube style revenue sharing would be better, but apparently that's in the works as well.
It's also good that they're letting people appeal the mutes. YouTube style revenue sharing would be better, but apparently that's in the works as well.
This is a move in the right direction.
PandaPandaPanda
Member
this is something that should have been put into place when they originally introduced the changes
it's like what were they thinking
Velcro Fly
Member
Twitch is running scared. They know that speedrunners make up a good chunk of their streamers and that two huge events and a few other really big events are speedrunning marathons that bring heavy traffic and exposure to the site. Driving them to hitbox would be a dumb move. If they can clean up the muting mess to get things back that are game sounds maybe they can weather this.
I'm becoming less mad and more just totally baffled by this situation. Now they're making sweeping changes (which is good), but did they honestly not see the huge backlash coming? Or was this already on the way, in which case why didn't they just roll this out a few days later with proper notice? Honestly confusing.
Quadraphonic
Member
RedHotChimiChanga
Banned
I highly doubt it. League and the top streamers aren't speed runners. They can get constant over 10k active viewers every day.
I rarely see speed running pushing the viewership of a game to the top tens unless it is a really big event, then it might hit the 6th - 10th spot.
Something that should have been there since the start.
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
A billion dollars can blind most people from the truth. Twitch has shown it's true colors, and causes me to foolishly wish a mass exodus would occur.
balladofwindfishes
Member
if highlight length restrictions are removed, why not just add a button to archive the entire video...
And... essentially get back to square 1
And... essentially get back to square 1
The slight inconvenience is actually the goal. Hopefully it'll dissuade people from hoarding stuff that never gets watched.
I imagine that's exactly the plan if this Google thing pans out. Live streams stay on Twitch, VODs go to YouTube, link the accounts, done.
Subtervotion
Member
Just filed my appeal. I have been streaming TLOU multiplayer and roughly 50% of it gets muted.
I hope they remove my many many many mutes on multiple videos.
I hope they remove my many many many mutes on multiple videos.
You should read this. Twitch's recent actions seem like the exact opposite of billion-dollar hubris.
Exactly this. Speedrunners are a pretty crucial element on twitch but League and Variety casters are much bigger than casters.
I'm thinking the only reason they reversed the 2 hour highlight thing was because of how pissed Cosmo was about it and losing him would have been huge for twitch.
scoobidoo112
Member
OP, you might want to update the thread with the AMA responses.
Azure Dream
Member
Imagine if they had actually talked to someone about what they planned to do, before dumping it right on the community? The fallout wouldn't be nearly as bad.
But the writing's on the wall now, isn't it? What they plan to do, what they're eventually going to do, even if they swear up and down otherwise right now.
PandaPandaPanda
Member
The fact that they didn't even announce the changes in advance so people could archive their stuff properly and reverting some of the changes just tells me that they don't even know what they're doing.
Haunted
Member
Is this some sort of psychological maneuvre? Drop the most heinous shit on your fanbase, then backpaddle and give some leeway to create a sense of "hey, they're listening, it's not all bad, it could've been worse" in the community?
If so, that's fucking stupid. And hell, if it's not an intended move, it's just plain incompetence. Neither doesn't reflect well on Twitch and its strategic leadership going forward.
A really odd move all around, and one that will cost them, both in the short- and the long term.
If so, that's fucking stupid. And hell, if it's not an intended move, it's just plain incompetence. Neither doesn't reflect well on Twitch and its strategic leadership going forward.
A really odd move all around, and one that will cost them, both in the short- and the long term.
Moskitokrebs
Member
I'm seeing the future for the German ppl, they will not be able to see any video because of GEMA, like YouTube. Lol
It might be best to not read the comments.
Some do believe it and are saying "they just need time" and "see! they're listening".
EDIT: Heads up. Cosmo is streaming right now on hitbox http://www.hitbox.tv/cosmowright
The damage is already done. Even if they remove the muting outright and go back to how they were at the beginning of the week, this was the push people needed to try out hitbox. And they've discovered a site that has a better video player and no delay.
Good going twitch.
Good going twitch.
this is an interesting view point, so they believe that the deal actually went under and that's why they are penny pinching like this?
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
That's a good read. I haven't went through the tons of good opinions on the matter, but.. it just seems like it could be a push to add more content to Google's Youtube.
What if this IS just a push to get more content on Google's Youtube, pre-buyout?
Perhaps a pre-emptive action to have a mass transfer of content for preservation on Google's site.
Sure, some of that content would probably trigger DMCA notices and such, but a lot of them are just speed runs, DOTA2, LoL, Charity events and I'm sure a lot of the people who create the content will want to preserve their archives.
One of the reasons I don't archive is because I don't want to go through the hassle of transferring content and such. I have time to stream games these days because I was let go from a wonderful job that paid very well.
In between looking for another job I like to Stream, it's great, because now I can catch up with my backlog while streaming for friends and family.(my little fanbase)
Now. Could, Ron be on to something about the deal falling through? Definately. It makes sense about the storage, and covering their asses from DMCA, since many of us here would understand that Google does this 24/7, it could be Twitch's deal fell through, so they're preparing for a Google-less future as a counter-measure.
All-in-all, Twitch should have been much more sensitive about this issue, and they should be kinder to the community that has them thriving.
As to what's going to happen next? "popcorn.gif"
hypotc
Member
I wonder if he will stay on hitbox.tv. I wouldn't mind.
Corronchilejano
Member
Well, I tried to go in to HitBox to see what all the fuzz was about but its just a blank page...
He seems to want healthy competition. He doesn't like what Twitch is doing or has been doing for awhile that's been effecting their services. His peak viewership during his stream was close to 2k which is already higher than anyone on the site currently.
Also on his profile.
It is good that Twitch is making fixes, but I am still wary of the effects of automatic copyright takedown and the way Twitch handled the situation. YouTube has been doing Content ID appeals for awhile but the appeal system is still a broken mess to this day. This is going to be an iterative process for Twitch to fix their site now, and I feel like it would be good for Twitch to have some more competition so that blunders like this become less acceptable. This isn't necessarily a permanent switch for me, but it feels good to use a different service for the time being.
But yeah, if he stays here I'd continue following. If he goes somewhere else I'll go there too.
I wish all the streamers I followed would jump ship to Hitbox. The delay has never stopped being annoying. Also Twitch likes to do the thing for me where it buffers every 5 seconds unless I play streams in VLC with Livestreamer. Such a shitty ass website that I wish I wasn't so reliant on for so much of my entertainment.
The buffering could be a lot of things that aren't necessarily Twitch's fault. Some ISPs either don't handle Twitch well due to poor infrastructure that gets overloaded, or they screw you over with deliberate packet shaping.