Obviously once again I opened my mouth and inserted my foot deep into my face hole.
Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart
- Thread starter JohnDoe
- Start date
- Status
Obviously once again I opened my mouth and inserted my foot deep into my face hole.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Clockwork
Member
I'm trying to imagine myself in that situation, walking around Walmart just minding my business without a care in the world doing some shopping and talking to someone on the phone...
Out of nowhere I have cops pointing their firearms at me ordering me to stand down/drop a BB gun that was never a danger to anyone.
It might take me a few moments to comprehend exactly wtf is going on, you know...because I wasn't doing anything. It wouldn't be because I didn't intend to comply, but because I would be totally stunned/mindblown.
Earthstrike
Member
Awaiting your withdrawal.
Well maybe you should read the rest of the page.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I've held it. It's a BB-gun that you have to pump up by hand like the one my dad gave me when I was 5 years old.
Yeah, silly me, race has nothing to do with this at all. I mean if he were white I'm sure it would have gone down exactly the same.
And the police reports and the witnesses seem exceptionally credible in this case.
I mean if I was on the phone with a toy gun in one hand and heard "DROP IT!" I would do so immediately and be in no way confused or even turn around. That could be construed as an act of aggression punishable by death on my part.
That momentary time in which you are comprehending what the fuck is going on is apparently enough to warrant your death*
*if you are black
When even the paramedics are lying to save the "small percentage," no, I'm not inclined to trust them.
And no, higher pay isn't the answer. We have police departments literally rejecting people for being too intelligent. The problem with the police is not that they're having trouble attracting qualified people. The problem is that their is no culpability for their actions.
Earthstrike
Member
You're right, I didn't refresh.
However, doesn't the fact that you actually cited something so egregiously wrong give you pause about the position you hold?
I mean there's a difference between a big and a small slip up in an argument. Doesn't the magnitude of your mistake make you sit back and say "hmmm, maybe I need to to totally and completely rethink my position?"
DoktorEvil
Banned
I guess you missed the part about the 911 call and the dehumanizing stare line.
Come on brehs, posting a white separatist website to support your blacks-on-whites claim. I mean, you had to at least google something to get to that point.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
BattleMonkey
Member
The one thing that's gonna be used against the victim, is that these air rifles are kept sealed in packaging, you can't just pick one up at a Walmart. All the ones they carry are in sealed plastic clamshells or in boxes also. So he took the toy out of its packaging and started playing with it in the store?
It does actually. And honestly looking at the OP and that tweet and reminding myself of all the open carry shit I see online... Yeah, this is kinda bullshit. That open carry shit is nonsense if you ask me. Black or white if I saw someone walk into TARGET of all places to shop like a normal person but had a HUGE assault rifle slung on the back I'd leave the store and probably call the cops because up until like this week I had no idea this is an actual thing.
I'm eagerly awaiting lawful's new tag.
If you're going to lie, go with a more believable lie than "a guy tried to load his toy gun after being told to drop it".
For those of you who insist on being on the wrong side of the argument, here's some information for you to ignore. It's been quoted to death already but I see people still don't get it.
It's time to stop wondering why people yell "fuck the cops."
It's time to stop wondering why people yell "fuck the cops."
You have absolutely nothing to provide to this discussion. Now you're getting defensive.
Before discussing something, have an understanding of what you're going to discuss. This means researching the subject. Caring enough to look up actual sources, or to understand the experiences of others. Not just swearing by something you overheard once.
The main reason you would want to do this is because you wouldn't want to accidentally cite information from white supremacists in a thread where a black person has been killed, and your entire point is that you don't like sensationalism. A.k.a, people citing that brown people are disproportionately targeted by the justice system, and are overwhelmingly represented in the prisons systems. That black\brown people are treated differently than whites.
You're bothered about sensationalism. You don't even give a shit enough to look into it, outside of a white supremacist source. What is the point?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Man..how the FUCK did this need to turn into "blacks kill whites more"? Totally stop focusing on race guys! Geezuz..
King Cobra
Banned
I like how you use toy gun to make it seem like he was walking around with this
Who are you trying to kid, really come on.
The claim is that this guy was waiving his gun around pointing it at people so let me change your scenario a bit,
Try to imagine you being an ass and walking around walmart with a air rifle you just bought that looks like a real rifle. Then imagine yourself waiving it around at people and even pointing it at some thinking they will find it just as funny as you, now imagine you are the only person walking around walmart doing something this stupid and your hear "drop your weapon". Was that intended to the butcher in the meat department holding a meat cleaver or do you think it might be to the only guy holding something that looks like a semi automatic rifle? I can guarantee you that even if I was stupid enough to do the previous events I wouldn't be dense enough to confuse that message.
I remember when this same exact racist argument was made in a different thread.
Enzom21 said:
omitted name said:
Kinitari said:
omitted name said:
Last dude got banned. Enjoy yours.
And youre on the phone with your mother while laughing and aiming your gun at people?
And you say to the officer "Its a toy gun" and then immediately shot? As reported by his mother.
Also, you do this with your girlfriend with you as well?
Try to imagine that the only witness accounts that support this story are from the people who sicced the police on an unarmed man.
FBI's 2012 statistics, looking only at murder involving 1 suspect and 1 victim: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2012.xls
% of white murder victims killed by blacks: ~14%
% of white murder victims killed by whites: ~84%
% of black murder victims killed by whites: ~7%
% of black murder victims killed by blacks: ~91%
Seems to me that most murders tend to be same race on same race crimes. Maybe that 14% skyrockets to 90% when you factor in all other violent crimes, but I really, really doubt it.
The mental gymnastics have begun. Now we will be inundated of how terrified that poor couple must have felt (But not the security/other customers/employees/etc) at the big black man with his gun, aiming it straight in the faces of BABIES.
EDIT:
DEAF BABIES!
ramuh
Member
If your going to post numbers in a thread I do recommend spending more than ten seconds in google. I find that FBI statistics are a far better source than the first click on google.
After a rash of cop shootings and Gaf posters (and this thread) I am wondering what the breakdown is in shootings based on race. The closest I could find is this FBI Uniform Crime Report in 2010 listing all "justified homicides".
The closest I could get didn't include race:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl14.xls
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The BBs are held at the top by the sight. You can see them through a slit in the side. Here's a video I found explaining how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkgCEa2dhAk
Jmanunknown
Member
See their is a problem with the theory that he took it out of the package it was in. If you take it out of the package it was in you do not usually walk around the store with it and leave the packaging on the ground. You are not gonna just be able to walk out with the toy gun unless their is the assumption he was gonna steal the toy gun.
How did you go from "You should google your sources before arguing that the majority of crime is black-on-white based on a white supremacist study" to "Here are the FBI results to support my argument that the police aren't racist"?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Seriously he was in a fucking TOY STORE and it didn't occur to them the gun could be a toy?
Fucking hell. A young man has just lost his life over fucking NOTHING.
Fuck.
Fucking hell. A young man has just lost his life over fucking NOTHING.
Fuck.
No, I use it because that's the actual reality and not some bullshit hypothetical that invloves a butcher and his meat cleaver.I like how you use toy gun to make it seem like he was walking around with this
ebullientprism
Member
I am only 4 pages in the thread and its hilarious that people are calling for bans on toy guys in a place where you could legally carry a real gun that looks like that out in the open.
I mean, this is like the Onion writing reality instead of fake news.
I mean, this is like the Onion writing reality instead of fake news.
ramuh
Member
Because I didn't just google African Americans killed by police vice versus? I went to the FBI site and dug around. And I made no argument that "Here are the FBI results to support my argument etc etc etc.". I never made that assumption.
I understand your frustration but you're being very selective in what facts you're acknowledging in your comparison here. None of the
white
King Cobra
Banned
And the other actual reality is that the claims are that he was waving his gun around and pointing it at people and that the police had ordered him to drop his weapon. Or are those not part of your reality because they were made by a different race?
GF was not with him at that time, and again he didn't comply, if you are being told to drop your weapon at gun point by police officers it isn't your time to have a forum discussion. You drop what ever it is you are holding, what about that is so hard to understand?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
He was actually in the pet department of a big-box retail store, but it is pretty clearly a toy, IMO.
You talk about "justified homicides", but then quote statistics on general homicides that have nothing to do with "justified homicides."
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
This reminds me of the people arguing Trayvon Martin shouldn't be called a child because he was really tall or something.
The police just heard him say it was a toy. Are you arguing they shouldn't be held culpable for shooting him anyway?
Or is not following directions immediately enough justification to shoot someone?
BronsonLee
Member
He was. WalMart is...big
Really you would think the police would have released the security footage by now if he walked into Walmart, opened a $100+ air rifle, loaded it, started waving it around, pointing it at customers with the occasional gesture towards a nearby child, and then have some standoff where he failed to comply with their requests.
Yet no one other than that couple felt threatened enough to call the police. I'd say if someone pointed a gun at my child, like he alledgedly did, I'd call the police. Unless I'm not a moron and can see it's fake. And everything the couple stated screams racial bias, right down to "he looked angry" aka dehumanizing stares.
The only ones claiming that are the two witnesses who seem to be full of shit and the police (obviously). The person on the phone seems to tell a completely different story.
And even if he wasn't complying immediately (which would be understandable) only in America would that be enough of an excuse to open fire the next second.
ramuh
Member
This section also includes information about justifiable homicide—certain willful killings that must be reported as justifiable or excusable. In the UCR Program, justifiable homicide is defined as and limited to:
This is the section on justified police homicides. No race data was inlcuded.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl14.xls
Do you know what the words "also includes" mean?
Because you just posted statistics about general homicide, which includes justifiable homicide. It also includes non-justifiable homicide.
Just saw this on my twitter. Before anyone asks, the vigil and subsequent riot, are for Michael Brown who was shot and killed by police. He was unarmed.
Are there any photos of the alleged toy gun yet?
Honestly, this story doesn't really surprise me because cops are trained to assume the worst when someone raises a firearm looking device at them or other people. Also, just because he says out loud that it's a toy isn't reason enough for everyone to trust his word. We only see it as ridiculous now because we see it in hindsight with the knowledge that it was in fact a toy. I don't really see it as a black and white thing either considering I've also seen numerous stories like this with cops shooting even younger kids who point toy BB guns at them that are modeled after real firearms. I don't really see the much-talked about racial angle here that some people are debating. There just isn't enough concrete information yet to form a real stance here.
Honestly, this story doesn't really surprise me because cops are trained to assume the worst when someone raises a firearm looking device at them or other people. Also, just because he says out loud that it's a toy isn't reason enough for everyone to trust his word. We only see it as ridiculous now because we see it in hindsight with the knowledge that it was in fact a toy. I don't really see it as a black and white thing either considering I've also seen numerous stories like this with cops shooting even younger kids who point toy BB guns at them that are modeled after real firearms. I don't really see the much-talked about racial angle here that some people are debating. There just isn't enough concrete information yet to form a real stance here.
I'm just noting that your 'what if' is missing information stated by people already. So clearly, you know of the other information.
You're ignoring the mothers statement which was that they were talking, then she heard him say "its not real." THEN the shots, then she heard them say get down on the ground. As he was crying and screaming. Your story is just absurd fluff for no real reason? The girlfriend was with him at the store. She said she was shopping in another department -- for your what if -- what Guy is on the phone with his mom, waving guns in childrens faces with his gf there at the store as well? It would just be amazingly random to do, and there is a lack of anyone else corroborating the witnesses stories, not the Walmart Security department, not anyone else, nothing. Black people are fully aware of shit that gets us shot. Guns in faces of any white people or in any public place, wouldn't be something a 22 year old black man is going to do. Generally speaking.
- Status