Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 12: Gwah, hah. Welcome to the Bowser's game.

theprodigy said:
*citation needed*
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Everything Nintendo does is about being accessible and friendly to new and casual players. 50 characters on a massive character screen is like the opposite of friendly and accessible.

It also removes progression and limits the sense of accomplishment, something Sakurai appears to really design his challenges and unlock ambles around.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
And Marvel vs Capcom and Tekken don't have the casual appeal Smash does. When I played MVC for the first time, it was really overwhelming, and part of the reason I never went back to it. Smash isn't like it, they want to ease you into new characters.
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You just have to stick with it. UMvC3 is now muscle memory for me.
 
I think it's pretty likely we'll get unlockables. Firstly, there's Veterans that have traditionally been unlockable:

Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Falco
Wolf
Ness
Mr. Game & Watch
R.O.B.
Luigi*
Toon Link*

The last two are already revealed, I know, but Luigi is a special case (Sakurai even mentions that they don't usually reveal him before release) and Toon Link is a clone that tied into WWHD's release, so he COULD be in the same boat. Beyond that, there are Third Parties, which Sakurai prefers as unlockable:

Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man

And, frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Newcomers Sakurai is showing off are also hidden from the outset:

Greninja
Robin
Lucina
Palutena

If even HALF of those four start off locked, we'd have 14 hidden characters at least, with future newcomers also a possibility. 33% of 64's roster was locked, ~42% of Melee's, and ~35% of Brawl's. Assuming about 50 characters for Smash 4 and 15 hidden characters, that's 30% of the roster hidden from the start, which is lower than usual but not drastically so.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
This is assuming you're familiar with someone. And if you're not, a giant wall of characters deters you. Smash is a casual game made for everyone.

There will be unlockables that have been revealed. Marth will probably be the only who gets bumped to starter.
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I mean the mario cast and those related to them and zelda would be pretty safe choices for many I assume.
 
Regarding the starter/unlockable thing: I've said this before, but look at the proportions of starter characters to full rosters of previous Smash games.

64: 8/12 = 67%
Melee: 15/26 = 58%
Brawl: 25/39 = 64%

They all hover at two-thirds or less. Now, we have 39 characters so far. Assuming a total roster of around 50, if everyone so far revealed is a starter, that's 39/50 = 78%. Not only is that a much higher percentage than all the previous games, we almost certainly have more reveals to go before launch. Thus if all characters revealed pre-launch are starters, then virtually the entire roster will be available from the beginning. This means either 1) there are only five or six unlocklables out of a roster of 50 or so; 2) there are no unlockables at all; 3) some characters that have been revealed will be unlockable.

My money's on 3. Having unlockability isn't to keep characters a surprise - with the Internet and a staggered release, everything will get out sooner or later - it's to provide, as GenG3000 said, a sense of progression and reward for playing the game.
 
The concept of "not putting everything your game has to offer right out at the start because it can be intimidating" is a pretty basic game design principle. I have no clue if its something Sakurai specifically subscribes to but within the general realm of game design, inclusive of more than just video games, there's nothing ridiculous about the premise.
 
ffdgh said:
I mean the mario cast and those related to them and zelda would be pretty safe choices for many I assume.
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Alright, so a player who has never played smash before sees link and toon link. He knows who these characters are. What's the difference between them in Smash? We'll he doesn't know, so how is he supposed to know which one he should start with? How is he going to know he's progressing in skill with one of them?

But if Toon Link is unlocked via beating Classic mode with Link without using a continue, he now knows how Link works enough to beat some low level CPUs. And when Toon Link is unlocked for him, he can better ease himself into learning their differences. He's progressed as a player and the game made more of an effort to teach him about Link and Toon Link than had they just shoved both right at him and left him to fend for himself.
 
All of this Sakurai talk about him wanting to make the number one character game in the world....he seems so confident about it.

I dunno about you guys, but I think to make this the number one character game in the world, cutting one of gaming's most iconic characters just wouldn't make sense.

This%20is%20what%20being%20a%20soldier%20is%20all%20about.jpg
 
MagiusNecros said:
Where's the fun in that?
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You don't have to use it? Same way you don't have to use any cheat code if you want to play the game as intended. It allows people who are starting up the game for the first time on a console, but already know who they want to play (they played it before, they have friends over, etc), be able to choose who they want on day 1.

I'd never use it unless i lost my save file, but yeah, it'd nice to have for people who want it. I totally see both sides of the coin. I'm on the 'UNLOCK EVERYTHING" side. I'd love it if you just started with ONE character and had to unlock EVERYONE else, but that's just me.
 
I would love the starters to be just the original Smash64 roster

Durden77 said:
All of this Sakurai talk about him wanting to make the number one character game in the world....he seems so confident about it.

I dunno about you guys, but I think to make this the number one character game in the world, cutting one of gaming's most iconic characters just wouldn't make sense.

This%20is%20what%20being%20a%20soldier%20is%20all%20about.jpg
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Snake's in.
All the nay-sayers will be laughed on in a month.
 
Durden77 said:
All of this Sakurai talk about him wanting to make the number one character game in the world....he seems so confident about it.

I dunno about you guys, but I think to make this the number one character game in the world, cutting one of gaming's most iconic characters just wouldn't make sense.
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Kirby is already in the game though.

georly said:
You don't have to use it? Same way you don't have to use any cheat code if you want to play the game as intended. It allows people who are starting up the game for the first time on a console, but already know who they want to play (they played it before, they have friends over, etc), be able to choose who they want on day 1.

I'd never use it unless i lost my save file, but yeah, it'd nice to have for people who want it. I totally see both sides of the coin. I'm on the 'UNLOCK EVERYTHING" side. I'd love it if you just started with ONE character and had to unlock EVERYONE else, but that's just me.
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Makes sense when you put it that way.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
Alright, so a player who has never played smash before sees link and toon link. He knows who these characters are. What's the difference between them in Smash? We'll he doesn't know, so how is he supposed to know which one he should start with? How is he going to know he's progressing in skill with one of them?

But if Toon Link is unlocked via beating Classic mode with Link without using a continue, he now knows how Link works enough to beat some low level CPUs. And when Toon Link is unlocked for him, he can better ease himself into learning their differences. He's progressed as a player and the game made more of an effort to teach him about Link and Toon Link than had they just shoved both right at him and left him to fend for himself.
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I...uhh...I got nothing lol.
 
Do you actually think the same guy who scrapped cutscenes because he is annoyed by people uploading them to youtube would let the internet spoil the unlockable characters?

I think at least 25% of the already revealed characters are unlockable, and maybe Sakurai will end up revealing every playable character before the game release
 
MagiusNecros said:
Where's the fun in that?
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None, if you use it the first time. But unlocking codes can be a lifesaver. One of my GCN memory cards crapped out, corrupting all my saves and making it impossible to save again. Everything I had unlocked in Melee is gone, including my main, Luigi. Now, I don't bother playing Melee anymore because (at least in part) I'd have to take the time to unlock the stuff I want every time I pop it in again. That's way too inconvenient.

On the other hand, I can still play 007 Nightfire because even though my saves were wiped, that game has a password system to unlock everything. I can pop it in, punch in the codes, and enjoy the full game whenever I want. I can't do that with Melee because it has no password system, which really sucks.
 
I've always thought the best way to do it would be to have everything need to be unlocked initially, but then a few months after launch reveal a code you can put in that will unlock everything. I doubt they would do that, but as others have mentioned, it would be appreciated for those times you want to play and there's no way to get a save file with everything unlocked.
 
Well if Sakurai whined about people watching CG Cutscenes on the internet maybe he might feel the same way with all the characters given the Western half of the planet has to wait a month to play the 3DS version unless you import.
 
MagiusNecros said:
Well if Sakurai whined about people watching CG Cutscenes on the internet maybe he might feel the same way with all the characters given the Western half of the planet has to wait a month to play the 3DS version unless you import.
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I wish instead of drawing the conclusion to remove cutscenes that he would push for a WW release instead.
 
MagiusNecros said:
Well if Sakurai whined about people watching CG Cutscenes on the internet maybe he might feel the same way with all the characters given the Western half of the planet has to wait a month to play the 3DS version unless you import.
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Hell, a few people will probably have the full game in their hands at least a week before the Japanese launch and will have probably leaked everything by then.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
None, if you use it the first time. But unlocking codes can be a lifesaver. One of my GCN memory cards crapped out, corrupting all my saves and making it impossible to save again. Everything I had unlocked in Melee is gone, including my main, Luigi. Now, I don't bother playing Melee anymore because (at least in part) I'd have to take the time to unlock the stuff I want every time I pop it in again. That's way too inconvenient.

On the other hand, I can still play 007 Nightfire because even though my saves were wiped, that game has a password system to unlock everything. I can pop it in, punch in the codes, and enjoy the full game whenever I want. I can't do that with Melee because it has no password system, which really sucks.
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Exactly. An 'unlock the characters' cheat code would be perfect. Best of both worlds.

Though I have to ask... why not just buy a memory card after a while? With your situation you make it sound so permanent.
 
Lunar15 said:
I liked Micaiah because based on all of her art you expect her to be a cliched, doe-eyed, "hope is our future!" type anime girl, but then when you play the game she's actually kind of a sarcastic and straight faced character who makes a lot of tough choices without getting too sentimental.

I wish they had done more with her, but the game's all NOPE, IKE.

She should definitely be an Assist trophy though.
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I loved how she
used the same dirty tactics she once admonished. Like, she was put in the worst possible situation ever, and instead of cowering away like baby, she makes some pretty tough choices. Her characterization after the blood pact was legitimately amazing.

Too bad Ike hijacks the spotlight, and Yune hijacks her body.
 
emb said:
Though I have to ask... why not just buy a memory card after a while? With your situation you make it sound so permanent.
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After-market ain't cheap.

-

EDIT: Just checked, if you want to use SD cards for Gamecube memory cards you have to screw with the hardware since Wii features are disabled in Gamecube mode
 
I need someone to make a pact with me.

If you're a person who is planning on spoiling the final roster for yourself as soon as Japan gets the game or it leaks, I ask that you make a deal with me. At that point I'll be avoiding all spoiler-full threads and I ask that any person who knows the full roster, at the time of leaking or reveal from someone who got their copy early, DM me with only the veterans who did not return. I ask this because, while I don't want to know the extent of the remaining newcomers (even though I'm pretty sure we know a couple of them), I need to know who's cut so I can grieve accordingly before I find out for myself in the game. This is serious business.

Who can help me?
 
emb said:
Exactly. An 'unlock the characters' cheat code would be perfect. Best of both worlds.

Though I have to ask... why not just buy a memory card after a while? With your situation you make it sound so permanent.
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Yeah, I did overstate things. The main reason is my card died just a few weeks before Brawl came out, and I figured I wouldn't be playing Melee much in the near future anyway. And for some reason certain games can still be saved - most importantly, TTYD. All the saves I had got corrupted, but to this day I can still save games without any trouble (I think Luigi's Mansion and Kirby's Air Ride still work, too.) Other than TTYD, though, I don't really play any GCN games anymore, so I've just never bothered getting a new one.
 
GiantBreadbug said:
I need someone to make a pact with me.

If you're a person who is planning on spoiling the final roster for yourself as soon as Japan gets the game or it leaks, I ask that you make a deal with me. At that point I'll be avoiding all spoiler-full threads and I ask that any person who knows the full roster, at the time of leaking or reveal from someone who got their copy early, DM me with only the veterans who did not return. I ask this because, while I don't want to know the extent of the remaining newcomers (even though I'm pretty sure we know a couple of them), I need to know who's cut so I can grieve accordingly before I find out for myself in the game. This is serious business.

Who can help me?
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I can do that. Just remind me in a PM near release.
 
GiantBreadbug said:
I need someone to make a pact with me.

If you're a person who is planning on spoiling the final roster for yourself as soon as Japan gets the game or it leaks, I ask that you make a deal with me. At that point I'll be avoiding all spoiler-full threads and I ask that any person who knows the full roster, at the time of leaking or reveal from someone who got their copy early, DM me with only the veterans who did not return. I ask this because, while I don't want to know the extent of the remaining newcomers (even though I'm pretty sure we know a couple of them), I need to know who's cut so I can grieve accordingly before I find out for myself in the game. This is serious business.

Who can help me?
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Can I summon you in battle?
 
Choppasmith said:
I figured this might spark some discussion (yes I know IMDB, Salt of grain, yadda yadda):



It's oddly the only credit listed for the 3DS version. I think FE is due for another AT. Lyn's been the only one confirmed, right?
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AT? Tharja could be a unlockable newcomer. Considering we somehow got four FE characters, and all of them being starters (and they are, or else they wouldn't revealed them all. Stop bringing up that silly argument.) I could see a 5th one as a unlock and she is pretty popular, right? Is she the most popular besides the three lords in FEA? Since if it is another FE rep, its either FEA or Roy imo.

But its probably nothing. I sadly killed her in a counter attack in FEA so I never got to see her support conversations. :( Well..thats what replays are for!
 
Durden77 said:
All of this Sakurai talk about him wanting to make the number one character game in the world....he seems so confident about it.

I dunno about you guys, but I think to make this the number one character game in the world, cutting one of gaming's most iconic characters just wouldn't make sense.

This%20is%20what%20being%20a%20soldier%20is%20all%20about.jpg
Click to expand...
I'm right there with you man. Believe.

I really think someone should make a Snake and/or Ridley avatar bet with me I want to feel victorious over one of those.
 
PK Gaming said:
I loved how she
used the same dirty tactics she once admonished. Like, she was put in the worst possible situation ever, and instead of cowering away like baby, she makes some pretty tough choices. Her characterization after the blood pact was legitimately amazing.

Too bad Ike hijacks the spotlight, and Yune hijacks her body.
Click to expand...

She would have been better had the dawn brigade been fleshed out enough through support convos. Her group was just boring, and I wasn't really complaining when the Greil Mercenaries showed up to kick it up a notch.
 
Durden77 said:
All of this Sakurai talk about him wanting to make the number one character game in the world....he seems so confident about it.

I dunno about you guys, but I think to make this the number one character game in the world, cutting one of gaming's most iconic characters just wouldn't make sense.

This%20is%20what%20being%20a%20soldier%20is%20all%20about.jpg
Click to expand...
Come on we all know naruto is the character to put this game over the top.
 
OricWindstar said:
I think you do have to unlock customizable moves, right?
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Eyup, they're all unlockable. I'm gonna love earnin them, and trying them out to see what they do.

I wonder what Fox's custom reflector moves will be. I wonder what the custom Fire Fox variants will be!

And Sheik, she's already got two brand-new standard moves, but really it's six! What will the other ones be!! What will Zelda's Phantom do, will it be different dash lengths? Different phantoms entirely?

I wonder what all the custom moves will be!!!!!!
 
GenG3000 said:
No way this game is going to have 39 starters. I'd say many of the revealed characters (Luigi, Toon Link, Captain Falcon) are going to be unlockable.
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They are all starters. They are not gonna reveal any unlockable characters except maaaaybe third parties.


This is the most stupidest argument in this thread.

"They don't wanna overwelm players!"

"They just seem unlockables because of reasons!"

"But Luigi has always been hidden! Sakurai said that so it means he's still hidden even tho its the most obvious hidden character to return!"

"But Toon Link and Lucina are CLONES! THEY HAVE TO BE UNLOCKABLE BECAUSE OF CLONES BECAUSE I SAY SO!"

Seriously, get over yourselves. They are all starters except for maybe third parties depending on how Sakurai treats them.

G&W is the only character revealed so far that isn't on the site, because he is unlockable and the only reason he showed him was to do that little history lesson. All the other characters are on the site, they are starters.

I'm LMAO at everyone arguing over this, and this is my last post on this argument because its just dumb.
 
Durden77 said:
All of this Sakurai talk about him wanting to make the number one character game in the world....he seems so confident about it.

I dunno about you guys, but I think to make this the number one character game in the world, cutting one of gaming's most iconic characters just wouldn't make sense.

This%20is%20what%20being%20a%20soldier%20is%20all%20about.jpg
Click to expand...

This is always the worst part about a third party addition. We have to face reality that there's always a chance they won't be back for the next game. It's a risk taken but we'll have to face this with Mega Man and Pac-Man one day.
Sonic is probably stuck in Smash forever
 
thisisvlad said:
What if Sakurai had everyone unlockable in multiplayer, but restricted them to their regular movesets until you performed some action to unlock their custom moves?
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What we only got Smash 64 characters unlocked form the start.

I'd like it if each time you beat an opponent you unlocked them minus a few hidden ones. It would make the first play through so satisfying lol
 
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