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[Wiktor]

A game having the chance to be made is worse than denying an already announced sequel to an established multiplat franchise from coming to other platforms...because it's not on PC? I don't think some of you are actually thinking about the situation.

Well...personally I don't fully buy Chinese Room's expalantions though.

And yes, it is worse. As nobody is denying you the sequel. Just forcing you to wait for few months longer. Not a big deal. SE definitely treated their fans a lot better than Chinese Room, which bassicaly threw them into trash can.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

I don't see Rapture staying as PS4 exclusive, there is no way it will relate to any meaningful amount of sales, I assume Sony will want to recoup some of the money by banging out a PC release after.

 

[Oppo]

I would rather have the game on PC as well as consoles. Instead, Sony bought it in exchange for work.

The result is the same. Millions of gamers on the original announced platform will never see the game. The road traveled is different though, thus your opinion on it may change. Result is the same.

That's a bit overblown. I doubt if "millions" of PC gamers had even heard of this title at that point.

 

[badb0y]

I don't see Rapture staying as PS4 exclusive, there is no way it will relate to any meaningful amount of sales, I assume Sony will want to recoup some of the money by banging out a PC release after.

This has never happened.

 

[King_Moc]

I wasn't happy with this not being on PC, but given how much more there is to it than Dear Ester, it seems like they really wouldn't have been able to afford it. A shame that they couldn't negotiate a PC version though.

 

[GarciaHotspur]

Sony is publishing Papo and Yo on both PS3 and PC, so never say never

 

[CerebralTiger]

Sony is publishing Papo and Yo on both PS3 and PC, so never say never

That, just like Guacamelee, was a part of Sony's Pub Fund initiative. EGttR isn't.

 

[Dragonborn]

I don't see Rapture staying as PS4 exclusive, there is no way it will relate to any meaningful amount of sales, I assume Sony will want to recoup some of the money by banging out a PC release after.

Sony owns the IP, it's never leaving PS

Well...personally I don't fully buy Chinese Room's expalantions though.

And yes, it is worse. As nobody is denying you the sequel. Just forcing you to wait for few months longer. Not a big deal. SE definitely treated their fans a lot better than Chinese Room, which bassicaly threw them into trash can.

Would you rather the game not get made at all?

 

[P44]

I was actually privy to agree with you OP. Spencer's comments about aiding development really muddied my resolve on the matter. But after reading the excerpt below, it seems EGTTR is a Bayonetta situation. It's irksome that they didn't try before they said they couldn't do it, but they're pretty frank with saying the game wouldn't have happened.

Project planning goes like this; you say you can do something with x and y resources in z time. You go overboard on all three usually. If they've done the sums and worked out that they won't have enough money to do it, believe them.

Asking them to try is asking them to be irresponsible, potentially screw their families financial situations. They could have used kickstarter or some shit, but I guess they didn't want to put themselves under the scrutiny that kickstarted games get - on top of that, Dear Esther wasn't that popular, it may have been a waste of time. SSM's support would also help greatly in the development for a small studio.

The difference between TR and other moneyhats is for me, could the game have happened without the moneyhat, and for TR that case is yes, easily and for EGTTR that case is emphatically no. It is the reason for the denial, that is the problem, not the denial itself.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

This has never happened.

Sony owns the IP, it's never leaving PS

eh, a boy can dream.

 

[Kintaro]

That's a bit overblown. I doubt if "millions" of PC gamers had even heard of this title at that point.

Does it matter how many heard of it? No. However, a significantly larger amount of people would have seen it leading up to it's release on Steam. We have seen small games become big in the blink of an eye on PC before.

The only way you ignore the gigantic size of the PC gaming userbase is if you are paid to.

 

[LiquidSolid]

I don't see Rapture staying as PS4 exclusive, there is no way it will relate to any meaningful amount of sales, I assume Sony will want to recoup some of the money by banging out a PC release after.

Yeah, because they've done that before... Oh wait, no they haven't.

Sony is publishing Papo and Yo on both PS3 and PC, so never say never

No, Papo & Yo was a self-published indie game. Everybody's Gone to the Rapture is a first party game. It'll appear on the PC the same day The Last of Us, Uncharted and Gran Turismo do.

 

[Neuromancer]

Other than all the differences they're practically the same thing.

 

[Dragonborn]

Does it matter how many heard of it? No. However, a significantly larger amount of people would have seen it leading up to it's release on Steam. We have seen small games become big in the blink of an eye on PC before.

The only way you ignore the gigantic size of the PC gaming userbase is if you are paid to.

Well, um, yea because that's what happened. They needed money, so they msde a deal with Sony since they were willing to help. Would you rather thet cancel the game? We're talking about a small indie studio dude

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Yeah, because they've done that before... Oh wait, no they haven't.

Oh, I know it's mental. just a bit of insane wishful thinking.

 

[Zia]

I don't think they're the same, because Santa Monica probably has an active role in production. Still disappointed that they scooped it up after is was announced as a PC game. I'd much rather have that type of game on a computer where I can hunker down with a keyboard and a mouse. Plus the obvious, broader issue of preservation.

 

[travisbickle]

The only way you ignore the gigantic size of the PC gaming userbase is if you are paid to.

That's a little disingenuous when the devs of EGttR stated they have made a partnership because they couldn't make the title on their own.

Not everybody wants to be a possible millionaire, some want to fully realise the games they have imagined.

 

[TGO]

No, EGTR is a first party indie title funded by Sony, Tomb Raider is multi million franchise that started out in the 90's on PC and Playstation and is published by a multibillion dollar company and is a sequel to a 6 million selling game.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Well...personally I don't fully buy Chinese Room's expalantions though.

And yes, it is worse. As nobody is denying you the sequel. Just forcing you to wait for few months longer. Not a big deal. SE definitely treated their fans a lot better than Chinese Room, which bassicaly threw them into trash can.

Wow

I don't see Rapture staying as PS4 exclusive, there is no way it will relate to any meaningful amount of sales, I assume Sony will want to recoup some of the money by banging out a PC release after.

Wow x2

What is wrong here?

 

[Bundy]

With the news that Microsoft is going to spend money on developing and advertising Rise of the Tomb Raider in exchange for (some form of) exclusivity, I remembered the case of the formerly PC game, now PS4 exclusive "Everybody's going to the Rapture". Here's the thread from way back when it was revealed that the game wouldn't come to PC after all:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658373

For those who don't want to read through all of it, here's the gist:

- The Chinese Room are the developers of Dear Esther.
- Everybody's Going To The Rapture was announced as a PC and possibly console game.
- About a year after the original announcement the game became a PS4 exclusive.
- Sony is helping with funding and Sony Santa Monica with the development.

So, are these cases similar at all?

No

And btw. "Everybody's Gone to the Rapture" is a SONY owned IP.
Tomb Raider isn't a Microsoft IP.

I don't see Rapture staying as PS4 exclusive, there is no way it will relate to any meaningful amount of sales, I assume Sony will want to recoup some of the money by banging out a PC release after.

lol.....
No! It's a PS4 exclusive forever.

 

[Wiktor]

Would you rather the game not get made at all?

I believe it wouldn't be made as much as I believe Tomb Raider wouldn't be as good game without MS money.

Ie...I don't believe it at all. To me it all souns like bunch of excuses made to hide moneyhatting from Sony. They felt they couldn't get the money through crowfuning, but they didn't even try.

I expect it will launch in a year as a smalll game that obviously isn't beyond a scope of any decent indie studio.

 

[Wiktor]

That's a bit overblown. I doubt if "millions" of PC gamers had even heard of this title at that point.

Dear Esther sold over million copies. So you're obviously wrong.

 

[nynt9]

I believe it wouldn't be made as much as I believe Tomb Raider wouldn't be as good game without MS money.

Ie...I don't believe it at all. To me it all souns like bunch of excuses made to hide moneyhatting from Sony. They felt they couldn't get the money through crowfuning, but they didn't even try.

I expect it will launch in a year as a smalll game that obviously isn't beyond a scope of any decent indie studio.

Glad to know you have all this insider information about the production of the game... Oh wait.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Wow x2

What is wrong here?

Jeez louise guys, I can't hope for Good Guy Sony? I'm not even planning to get the game, didn't really like Dear Esther, I just wanted to picture a world where Sony releases a PC version to make some people happy. I know there is zero precedent, and is kinda antithetical to the whole point of buying the IP, it's just some late night/early morning nonsense. I should sleep...

 

[funkystudent]

If you could pre order Everybodys Gone to the Rapture on Steam they would be very similar.

Thats the difference and its a big one.


One game was a super far out indie game that was looking for funding and Sony where the ones who ended up funding it.

The other was a multi platform game that every major retailer was pushing as such with the OK of Square Enix and then they brokered a deal with MS that made it a exclusive.



The nearest game I can think of would be the Xbox Oddworld games way back when. Originally announced for PS2. MS paid EA a shit tone of money to make them Xbox only.

Spoiler

Games then bombed. Oddworld inhabitants shuts down for nearly a decade. Developers return years later and openly shun the publishing model that ruined the company years ago.

You would have to go back to the 90's to think of others but everyone was doing this shit in the 90s.

 

[TyrantII]

EGTTR is more akin to Titanfall or DR3, which is fine since games like that are not going to ever come out without publisher support and funding. They used to call it second party, devs are independent but get published by one of the big three and are funded. Sometimes they keep the IP right, sometimes not.

Since you're not just simply blocking a group of consumers, but funding the development of a game that might never have been, that's fine in my book.

The problem comes when all you're doing is locking down multiplatform games by paying independent 3rd party publishers to block releases on other systems. That's negative, hurts everyone, and is zero sum for the industry.

 

[Wiktor]

Glad to know you have all this insider information about the production of the game... Oh wait.

Why would I believe anything one way or another if I had concrete insider information? That would be pretty much impossible then. I would know then. No place for beliefs there.

Unless of course you are claiming that everything you hear from game companies is always 100% true and there's no reason to doubt anything.

 

[Kintaro]

Well, um, yea because that's what happened. They needed money, so they msde a deal with Sony since they were willing to help. Would you rather thet cancel the game? We're talking about a small indie studio dude

I understand that. Sony came in and helped out and as a result, it's only on their system. I get it. I'm not mad at them. I was asked which was worse and I believe that both was bought (no matter the situation) but only one is truly exclusive.

I don't honestly buy their reasoning about Kickstarter and so forth seeing how successful multiple projects have been and have turned into giant games though.

They did what was best for them and for business. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, it IS worse in the end as less people WILL play it. Period.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Stop comparing a game no one has heard of to a long running established franchise. The TR deal would be like the next Resident Evil being exclusive.

 

[nynt9]

Why would I believe anything one way or another if I had concrete insider information? That would be pretty much impossible then. I would know then. No place for beliefs there.

Unless of course you are claiming that everything you hear from game companies is always 100% true and there's no reason to doubt anything.

I just don't see any reason for TCR to lie about this, and they don't have to explain the details of their personal lives and the troubles they went through with funding.

 

[jayu26]

Sony: Here is hat full of money. Would you make your game, that you own, exclusive to our platform Sony?

Sony: Why yes Sony...and thank you for the money.

Sony: You are very welcome Sony.

 

[alexandros]

Why would I believe anything one way or another if I had concrete insider information? That would be pretty much impossible then. I would know then. No place for beliefs there.

Unless of course you are claiming that everything you hear from game companies is always 100% true and there's no reason to doubt anything.

Please be careful Adrian. I almost got banned by a mod for saying something close to that in another thread.

Sony: Here is hat full of money. Would you make your game, that you own, exclusive to our platform Sony?

Sony: Why yes Sony...and thank you for the money.

Sony: You are very welcome Sony.

I don't get it. The game belonged to its developers before the moneyhat. What are you trying to say?

 

[REV 09]

No, EGttR is exclusive to the Sony platform so even if some of the timed exclusives are similar deals no one really gets upset because of "Return of the King". Let's say Sony bought Remedy, or secured Quantum Break 2 as a timed exclusive...does anyone honestly thing gamers would be up in arms regardless of how the deal was formed...nope. Instead you'd be seeing a lot of "Megaton" posts. The tide is simply in Sony's favor right now.

To the people saying TR could be made just fine without financial help, I was listening to John Davison on his First for Gamers podcast last night and he specifically argued that SE spent too much developing the first TR and that it was initially a failure. He argues that if SE wants to make another ambitious AAA game out of TR2 then they absolutely needed financial support.

 

[travisbickle]

I don't get it. The game belonged to its developers before the moneyhat. What are you trying to say?

Sony bought the intellectual property rights so they own it. I think it's meant to sarcastic.

 

[Noshino]

It's not better, but it's also not worse than saying "We don't believe we have a sufficiently large fanbase for a crowdsourcing campaign to be viable."

why would you even say that when negotiating a deal?

no one in their right mind would ever say that, you are giving away bargaining power.

I would rather have the game on PC as well as consoles. Instead, Sony bought it in exchange for work.

The result is the same. Millions of gamers on the original announced platform will never see the game. The road traveled is different though, thus your opinion on it may change. Result is the same.

The roads taken matter just as much. Millions of gamers weren't going to see the game on PC anyway, at the very least not the way thechineseroom guys intended.

Well...personally I don't fully buy Chinese Room's expalantions though.

And yes, it is worse. As nobody is denying you the sequel. Just forcing you to wait for few months longer. Not a big deal. SE definitely treated their fans a lot better than Chinese Room, which bassicaly threw them into trash can.

So not only you don't want to believe them when they say that they didn't have enough to continue developing the game, but you also claim that they treated their fans like trash?

you do know that thechineseroom went as far as to make the remake of Dear Esther PC exclusive even though their financial backers suggested going the PSN route.

 

[jayu26]

I don't get it. The game belonged to its developers before the moneyhat. What are you trying to say?

Regardless of who owned the IP before, it only became permanent exclusive after Sony bought the IP. This is very different from Tomb Raider situation. If MS had out right bought the IP then it would be similar.

Point is you cannot money hat a game you own.

 

[Amir0x]

After all the MS missteps, they probably have two dick moves in the bank that they can use for free

A get out of dick move-free card, if I may.

lmfao

at least two dick moves free lol

 

[alexandros]

Regardless of who owned the IP before, it only became permanent exclusive after Sony bought the IP. This is very different from Tomb Raider situation. If MS had out right bought the IP then it would be similar.

Point is you cannot money hat a game you own.

But... You own it as a result of the moneyhat.

 

[Callibretto]

Stop comparing a game no one has heard of to a long running established franchise. The TR deal would be like the next Resident Evil being exclusive.

hmm.. did many people pissed off when RE4 is gamecube exclusive, it even go as far as the director saying he will cut his head off if it come to playstation isn't it?

 

[dramatis]

Dear Esther sold over million copies. So you're obviously wrong.

Somebody earlier in the thread said it sold only 750k, and Wikipedia has numbers from 9/2013 that say it sold 850k total.

It didn't sell over a million.

I think possibly over a million PC gamers have heard of Dear Esther, but obviously not over a million or even a million of them are interested in buying or funding another game from the same developer.

 

[Infinite Xero]

After all the MS missteps, they probably have two dick moves in the bank that they can use for free

Sony already used one prior to launch when they pay walled online play.

 

[Kintaro]

The roads taken matter just as much. Millions of gamers weren't going to see the game on PC anyway, at the very least not the way thechineseroom guys intended.

It's up to you how you want to see it. The result is the same. Whether you believe its worse or not depends on your POV. Again, I have no problem with it. It's business. Sony saw a chance for a good, cheap IP, the developer gets support and can make their game. However, their fans who brought them success in the first place will never see the game. Meanwhile, Tomb Raider fans WILL see Rise at different points.

One is "worse" than the other for me.

 

[gai_shain]

So is this current situation similar to Binding of Isaac rebirth coming first on ps4/vita and then later on pc?

 

[SolidSnakex]

hmm.. did many people pissed off when RE4 is gamecube exclusive, it even go as far as the director saying he will cut his head off if it come to playstation isn't it?

Yeah, Capcom execs got pissed which is why they made it multiplatform in order to make sure that they finally made money.

 

[jayu26]

But... You own it as a result of the moneyhat.

Think man. Would you say that when MS bought Gears IP from Epic that they money hatted Epic? If you would then I don't think you know what "money hat" is...

 

[travisbickle]

But... You own it as a result of the moneyhat.

Come on!

Are we going to use the term "money hat" to describe any circumstance of a console manufacturer using money to develop games?

There's supposed to be an act of deceit, like giving someone money to lie for you.

 

[Family Fry]

Regardless of who owned the IP before, it only became permanent exclusive after Sony bought the IP. This is very different from Tomb Raider situation. If MS had out right bought the IP then it would be similar.

Point is you cannot money hat a game you own.

So your saying you cannot money hat a game you bought with a money hat?

Makes perfect sense.

The devs announced the game in 2012 and PC owners were excited to see TCR doing a new and unique game for PC.

They got in trouble and in swooped Sony to the rescue, not only did they help them with cash and development but they did the developers a favour by outright buying their IP, which of course means there will never be a PC version.

2) #everybodysgonetotherapture will be PS4 only at launch. That's not an absolute no to PC, but it's not planned right now.

I think you'll find that Sony own the IP you created so that means it IS an absolute no to PC version.

Pro tip about IP's from Team 17 MD.

Without owning of your IP, you’re essentially a work-for-hire studio.

http://www.develop-online.net/opinions/ip-the-lifeblood-of-your-business/0195206

 

[SolidSnakex]

They got in trouble and in swooped Sony to the rescue, not only did they help them with cash and development but they did the developers a favour by outright buying their IP, which of course means there will never be a PC version.

Sony didn't swoop in. The developers went to Sony because they couldn't handle a project of that scale financially or from a development standpoint.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

So is this current situation similar to Binding of Isaac rebirth coming first on ps4/vita and then later on pc?

I dunno, I can't seem to find where it says it's coming to PC later, just that the game is launching on PS4, Vita and Steam sometime later this year.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

EGTTR is worse. Unlike Tomb Raider, for the foreseeable future, it will not show up at all on it's originally announced platform. While PC players will play Rise, we will not have EGTTR.

I mean, I get it. They couldn't handle it and needed help, but still sucks.

No it is not worse. It would not exist without the funding from Sony, same as Bayonetta 2.