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[TheOddOne]

PS2 was dominating. It made sense.
Xbox isn't dominating. Tomb Raider isn't high profile. I think this exclusivity will do more harm than good.

That isn’t the point being made though, it’s about paying to prevent it from coming to other platforms; and both the GTA and TR deals look to achieve the same result.

 

[CarbonByGravity]

Bloodborne is probably financed by Sony (as in, Sony is hiring From Software to make a game for them), so it makes sense that its only on their platform. That said, i also dont understand why there is so much discussion around the Tomber Rider situation. And it being timed exclusive (as it most likely seems), it makes me more curious why there is so much discussion around it.

The reason... MS is public enemy number #1 right now. This state is 100% self-imposed. MS killed much of their good will last summer during E3. Going about getting the Tomb Raider exclusivity the way they did, then following up with double talk PR bullshit just served to remind us why all the MS hate was originally justified.

 

[Steroyd]

The point just is that more money means more options for the developers. Bigger set pieces, more cutscenes, simply stuff that might have been cut otherwise.

We have a thing for stuff like that, it's called exclsuive DLC. *trollface*

 

[CarbonByGravity]

Bloodborne is probably financed by Sony (as in, Sony is hiring From Software to make a game for them), so it makes sense that its only on their platform. That said, i also dont understand why there is so much discussion around the Tomber Rider situation. And it being timed exclusive (as it most likely seems), it makes me more curious why there is so much discussion around it.

The reason... MS is public enemy number #1 right now. This state is 100% self-imposed. MS killed much of their good will last summer during E3. Going about getting the Tomb Raider exclusivity the way they did, then following up with double talk PR bullshit just served to remind us why all the MS hate was originally justified.

 

[Liamario]

Going slightly off topic for a moment- why is Phil Harrison still employed by MS. I don't know what purpose he serves anymore.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

The point just is that more money means more options for the developers. Bigger set pieces, more cutscenes, simply stuff that might have been cut otherwise.

How many more cutscenes and "set piece" QTEs does TR need?

It's a cross-gen game, they already decided to play it safe.

 

[enzo_gt]

And your common sense tells you that the PS4/PC versions don't exist or are equivalent to a 3DS version?

What do you mean when you say the PS4 market is completely lost?

No, I'm referring to the immense backlash that SE has fucked themselves over financially by not releasing PS4 and PC versions day and date, as if it made that much of a difference for cultivating fanbases before. It will it sell similarly, and still potentially even more than it would on X1.

 

[nature boy]

So if Sony Japan did all the netcode and programming, but From did all the modelling and texture work, whose game is it then? Sony didn't do any creative work, right?

Uh making a game is little bit more than programming and making assets. Otherwise Hideo Kojima would be worthless.

Doesn't matter if Sony asked From or From went with a concept and Sony okayed it, the bottom line is that there's a collaboration between the 2 where Sony owns the IP, if From didn't like the deal they would have done an Insomiac and went to Bandai, EA, or even MS if that was the case.

Fair point, but Sony is eating resources from a 3rd party for an exclusive game, which is MS is also doing but is criticized for it. The only difference is one is a well established franchise that didn't need funding to be made, but other than that it's fair game trying to get a (big) 3rd party game exclusive for your console, as Sony did with GTA III.

It wasn't made clear at first, and took an almost arm twist on Spencer to come out that there's a duration, and Crystal Dynamics themselves only admitted that fact by referencing the Phil Spencer interview, this lack of transparency alone annoyed people.

Then we look at Tomb Raider regaining it's PS1-like sales after over a decade of mediocracy and suddenly it's timed exclusive to the one platform it sold the worst, making the need for transparency to be that much more important in which they done fuck up.

I can understand the frustration with miscommunication, but no one is going to say "it was a shit tonne of money, period". Of course they're going to be vague, outside of financial issues it was never going to be an exclusive.
From MS side, it's all about changing the perception and showing that they can compete for content with Sony. So Spencer saying "it's a X month exclusive" would kill the perception he's trying to create (if it works in changing people's minds, that's a different story). From a business perspective it's perfectly logical, from a fanbase point of view not so much.

Miyazaki:
http://www.worldsfactory.net/2014/06/18/miyazaki-sony-wanted-something-new

Yes Sony wanted new content, but left it up to From/Miyazaki to come up with it. It's a From-led project that Sony's making a reality.

 

[Kinyou]

How many more cutscenes and "set piece" QTEs does TR need?

It's a cross-gen game, they already decided to play it safe.

Cutscenes and set pieces are just an example. I mean, you agree that a bigger budget gives a developer more options, right?

 

[test_account]

The reason... MS is public enemy number #1 right now. This state is 100% self-imposed. MS killed much of their good will last summer during E3. Going about getting the Tomb Raider exclusivity the way they did, then following up with double talk PR bullshit just served to remind us why all the MS hate was originally justified.

Well, i wouldnt expect them to say "its timed exclusive". They want to make it so that people think that the game is only coming for Xbox for business reasons. But i just dont see what the big deal is by paying for a (most likely) timed exclusive because it has happened several of times before. Personally, i dont think its that relevant what Microsoft's initial plans for the Xbox One were. That is in the past as far as i'm concerned.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Uh making a game is little bit more than programming and making assets. Otherwise Hideo Kojima would be worthless.

This didn't answer my question but ok, moving on

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Cutscenes and set pieces are just an example. I mean, you agree that a bigger budget gives a developer more options, right?

Where did you hear CD is getting a bigger budget? Do you think SE would throw more money at CD to make the game because of this timed exclusivity deal when a deal like this normally points to the publisher wanting to mitigate the risk by taking money upfront instead of trying to sell the game to a bigger audience?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

This is obfuscation?



He answered it point blank, and he didn't even have to.

Really, c’mon now, don’t resort to mental gymnastics to prevent reading what is said.

"Can you tell us how long the duration is?

No."

Everything else is bullshit. He didn't answer the question.

If it was a full exclusive he would say "Yes, forever". The fact that he didn't means that it's not. The fact that he obfuscated and "misunderstood" the question to be talking about the Tomb Raider franchise rather than the specific game is also quite telling.

 

[enzo_gt]

"Can you tell us how long the duration is?

No."

Everything else is bullshit. He didn't answer the question.

If it was a full exclusive he would say "Yes, forever". The fact that he didn't means that it's not.

What if it's a breach of contract to say?

Although I thought it was 6 months?

 

[Ol No Bones]

What if it's a breach of contract to say?

Although I thought it was 6 months?

People kept saying 6 months based on nothing.

 

[TheOddOne]

"Can you tell us how long the duration is?

No."

Everything else is bullshit. He didn't answer the question.

If it was a full exclusive he would say "Yes, forever". The fact that he didn't means that it's not.

I don't know if you're being overly obtuse or just picking and reading what you want.

The first question ask “Is it timed?” he answers “Yes”. Yet, you fixate on the second one, which isn’t too bad of answer because he is not going to tell us how long it will be exclusive because they want to promote it.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

"Can you tell us how long the duration is?

No."

Everything else is bullshit. He didn't answer the question.

If it was a full exclusive he would say "Yes, forever". The fact that he didn't means that it's not.

Well if we know its not forever exclusive based on his first answer why would giving a duration even matter?

 

[Kinyou]

Where did you hear CD is getting a bigger budget? Do you think SE would throw more money at CD to make the game because of this timed exclusivity deal when a deal like this normally points to the publisher wanting to mitigate the risk by taking money upfront instead of trying to sell the game to a bigger audience?

That's what helping development sounds like to me.
If SE pockets all the money it would hardly help development

 

[NoirVisage]

I don't know if you're being overly obtuse or just picking and reading what you want.

The first question ask “Is it timed?” he answers “Yes”. Yet, you fixate on the second one, which isn’t too bad of answer because he is not going to tell us how long it will be exclusive because they want to promote it.

mentioning "the franchise" brings us back to square one actually.

Dancer is Take Two
Grandpa is Sony

you're trying WAY to hard..why?

 

[harSon]

"Can you tell us how long the duration is?

No."

Everything else is bullshit. He didn't answer the question.

If it was a full exclusive he would say "Yes, forever". The fact that he didn't means that it's not. The fact that he obfuscated and "misunderstood" the question to be talking about the Tomb Raider franchise rather than the specific game is also quite telling.

Nobody in the history of fucking video games has ever spelled out how long a timed exclusive deal. To do so would be a practice in horrendous business. Like seriously, what the fuck. At least hate the guy for something legitimately upsetting. This is the equivalent of getting mad at a politician running for office for not telling voters that the economy is not going to improve anytime soon, or that manufacturing jobs shipped over seas are never coming back.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Going slightly off topic for a moment- why is Phil Harrison still employed by MS. I don't know what purpose he serves anymore.

Very good question indeed. Looked like a semi-decent hire when Microsoft were fully behind Kinect. Now its dead he is managing five studios (three of whom actually make games for the Xbox One). At least one of those studios is going to have to have a restructure as Kinect is dead [Rare].

He's also head of the European division where they are getting absolutely trounced. You just know he was behind splashing the cash on FIFA and Tomb Raider.

 

[TheOddOne]

mentioning "the franchise" brings us back to square one actually.

Uhm, what?

 

[NoirVisage]

Nobody in the history of fucking video games has ever spelled out how long a timed exclusive deal. To do so would be a practice in horrendous business. Like seriously, what the fuck. At least hate the guy for something legitimately upsetting. This is the equivalent of getting mad at a politician running for office for not telling voters that the economy is not going to improve anytime soon, or that manufacturing jobs shipped over seas are never coming back.

You're missing the doubletalk, he isn't talking about the exclusivity of the game itself, he's talking about the exclusivity of the "the franchise". "Rise" of the tomb raider may be the second Xbox One exclusive game of that name!

 

[cripterion]

QFT
The fact that we learn more from what MS is not saying than we do from what they actually say is just proof of the absurdity of their PR machine. So much verbose obfuscation and manufactured confusion that it's the things they don't say that we have to turn to to make sense of it all. And yet still we have people crying out and defending them for it because "they aren't obligated to tell us." Well yes but they obviously aren't obligated to mislead us with the assumption that we are idiots who can't see right through it.

When some company tells me they have a game exclusive for holiday 2015 I just take it as it is, a timed exclusive. Don't know why I should feel mislead or anything.

You guys are trying too hard now.

 

[Nightengale]

Uhm, what?

This is what I'm talking about.

 

[CarbonByGravity]

I can understand the frustration with miscommunication, but no one is going to say "it was a shit tonne of money, period". Of course they're going to be vague, outside of financial issues it was never going to be an exclusive.
From MS side, it's all about changing the perception and showing that they can compete for content with Sony. So Spencer saying "it's a X month exclusive" would kill the perception he's trying to create (if it works in changing people's minds, that's a different story). From a business perspective it's perfectly logical, from a fanbase point of view not so much.

Let's be honest here. Sure, MS's original intention was to change perceptions about their product via snatching this exclusive deal. Sadly, it has backfired big time so far. The concensus opinion of the Xbox One went from bad to worse following these events. It's quite possible that all will be forgotten by the time this game comes out. That conclusion would help Square Enix. However, the hate that MS continues to generate through their lack of foresight will no doubt further stifle their sales from the date the Tomb Raider exclusivity was announced until the fervor dissipates. I don't have a crystal ball but I can no doubt sense that MS it's NOT gaining fans at the rate that they are losing them at the moment. All of this is helping Sony. Just like their bone headed E3 conferences last year that no doubt contributed to catapulting of the PS4 to a ridiculously high 10 million units sold to customers in a short 9 months. MS seems hell bent on continuing to stick their foot in their collective mouths while effectively promoting their competition.

 

[TheOddOne]

You're missing the doubletalk, he isn't talking about the exclusivity of the game itself, he's talking about the exclusivity of the "the franchise". "Rise" of the tomb raider may be the second Xbox One exclusive game of that name!

I don't know how someone could come to that conclusion. He talks mostly about the exclusivity of that specific 2015 game. Why would he talk about exclusivity of the franchise? If that was the case no other Tomb Raider game would go to other platforms for that duration, which isn’t the case because other Tomb Raider games are coming for other platforms.

 

[cripterion]

Because Tomb Raider has been a PC and Playstation title since 1996. Majority of the fanbase exists there. When the news first hit it seemed that the game had been taken from them, and things still haven't been cleared up.

Also for those who aren't such big fans of Lara, but probably purchased the definitive edition of the latest game on ps4 are a bit bummed as that version was the superior version when compared to the xbone. So it was naturally assumed the next game would again come to the ps4 and most likely be the best version again.

So what if Tomb Raider was a PC game originally? The fact that they remastered the last game for consoles without adding those benefits on pc should already be a clue as to which audience they target.

Bioware was a pc centric dev, do you guys give them shit too nowadays for releasing console oriented games?

Also no matter how many times Sony might say it, the PS4 isn't the default console for gamers.

 

[Kagari]

mentioning "the franchise" brings us back to square one actually.



you're trying WAY to hard..why?

No it doesn't.
The game is coming to PC and PS4 eventually. It's as simple as that.

 

[PhatSaqs]

lol so let's start holding every company to letting out all of the terms of their deals all the way down to dollar amount… smh.

The amount of butthurt over this is at very critical levels. I kinda feel sorry for people that simply dont understand that these deals are all in the name of differentation and competition.

 

[Nightengale]

I don't know how someone could come to that conclusion. He talks mostly about the exclusivity of that specific 2015 game. Why would he talk about exclusivity of the franchise? If that was the case no other Tomb Raider game would go to other platforms for that duration, which isn’t the case because other Tomb Raider games are coming for other platforms.

It's double-talk that could be misintepreted if you choose to read it that way. ( a far stretch, but it's definitely deliberate on Spencer's part )

Spencer was trying to avoid saying that the duration of the exclusivity was for the game, so he used the word franchise to whitewash the fact that the only timed exclusivity he has is for Rise of the Tomb Raider, because we know Temple of Osiris is coming to other platforms, and in no reasonable world would SE sign up Tomb Raider's franchise for multiple years over to MS.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

So... Fully exclusive...?

That's what I'm reading. Holy crap, this might not be on PS4 until 2016 and by then no one'll care.

Can't hate the player but I can hate the game.

Also no matter how many times Sony might say it, the PS4 isn't the default console for gamers.

Of course they aren't. They don't have to say that; sales are saying that for them.

 

[rawd]

See this is a smart guy. All the complaining means nothing if you guys are still gonna buy it.

Honestly I'm just tired of hearing about it... Last Guardian (RIP) or Half Life 3 deserves this level of attention.

 

[bidguy]

That's what I'm reading. Holy crap, this might not be on PS4 until 2016 and by then no one'll care.

Can't hate the player but I can hate the game.

6-12 months is my guess

 

[SenjutsuSage]

The reason... MS is public enemy number #1 right now. This state is 100% self-imposed. MS killed much of their good will last summer during E3. Going about getting the Tomb Raider exclusivity the way they did, then following up with double talk PR bullshit just served to remind us why all the MS hate was originally justified.

So, would say they've "shot themselves in the foot?"

Again, I just think this is another case of us all overanalyzing and over personalizing the details. It isn't that serious at all.

 

[CarbonByGravity]

Well, i wouldnt expect them to say "its timed exclusive". They want to make it so that people think that the game is only coming for Xbox for business reasons. But i just dont see what the big deal is by paying for a (most likely) timed exclusive because it has happened several of times before. Personally, i dont think its that relevant what Microsoft's initial plans for the Xbox One were. That is in the past as far as i'm concerned.

Unfortunately you are just one persons. The fact that you don't deem MS's past behavior relevant does not change the fact that the public perception of the Xbox One is in the toilet. Everything they do will be watched as if under a microscope. Despite the fact that others have utilized the same business practices, MS is beingheld to a different standard. That's the situation they find themselves in. They created the situation themselves, now they must live with it.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

6-12 months is my guess

We'll see....

 

[Nightengale]

That's what I'm reading. Holy crap, this might not be on PS4 until 2016 and by then no one'll care.

Can't hate the player but I can hate the game.

Haha, no. Honestly, the status of this game is so controversial right now that you can't believe anything Spencer says that even has the slightest hint of ambiguity.

Tldr; until he says that Rise of Tomb Raider is exclusive 'for life/indefinitely', or a unquestionable phrase of full-exclusivity... it's coming to PS4/PC.

 

[Kagari]

We'll see....

You think SE is willing to lose out on the massive PC user base and PS4 userbase for long? No.

 

[TheOddOne]

It's double-talk that could be misintepreted if you choose to read it that way.

Spencer was trying to avoid saying that the duration of the exclusivity was for the game, so he used the word franchise to whitewash the fact that the only timed exclusivity he has is for Rise of the Tomb Raider, because we know Temple of Osiris is coming to other platforms, and in no reasonable world would SE sign up Tomb Raider's franchise for multiple years over to MS.

Pretty much.

 

[Amentallica]

Sometimes what isn't said is as important, if not more important than what is said. If they could, they would have said it's entirely exclusive, but we have not heard that. Therefore I am lead to believe that by not saying that, the game is timed. These topics really should be closed down. My head hurts over the last couple of days.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

How many more cutscenes and "set piece" QTEs does TR need?

It's a cross-gen game, they already decided to play it safe.

I don't think the game being cross-gen will hold back the XB1 and other versions. The game is expected to support Mantle on the PC side of things, and this was already confirmed, which means chances are high it also supports DX12.

 

[cripterion]

That's what I'm reading. Holy crap, this might not be on PS4 until 2016 and by then no one'll care.

Can't hate the player but I can hate the game.

Of course they aren't. They don't have to say that; sales are saying that for them.

Sorry, I should have used the term platform.
I own an PS4 and it's collecting dust as long as my Xbox One and Vita. Sales mean very little to me and aren't indicative of a product's real worth, but if we go by numbers, the last gen consoles still hold the crown then?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

How many more cutscenes and "set piece" QTEs does TR need?

It's a cross-gen game, they already decided to play it safe.

I don't think the game being cross-gen will hold back the XB1 and other versions. The game is expected to support Mantle on the PC side of things, and this was already confirmed, which means chances are high it also supports DX12.

You think SE is willing to lose out on the massive PC user base and PS4 userbase for long? No.

If Microsoft made the deal sweet enough, then it's possible for Square to profit more quickly off of this new Tomb Raider game than they were able to on the last Tomb Raider game. This game could end up being pretty profitable for Square even with many less units sold, depending on the type of deal of course. If Microsoft's commitment to marketing support and development funding is in anyway significant, it may very well not hurt Square as much as you might think to not release on PC and PS4 for a while. And when they eventually do? PS4 userbase will be even higher, which could also be of tremendous benefit to them.

edit: damn double post.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Haha, no. Honestly, the status of this game is so controversial right now that you can't believe anything Spencer says that even has the slightest hint of ambiguity.

Tldr; until he says that Rise of Tomb Raider is exclusive 'for life/indefinitely', or a unquestionable phrase of full-exclusivity... it's coming to PS4/PC.

No I definitely know it's still coming for those platforms,...I'm just now believing it'll be coming to PS4 later than we've been led to believe.

You think SE is willing to lose out on the massive PC user base and PS4 userbase for long? No.

They've made worst mistakes :S.

Sales mean very little to me and aren't indicative of a product's real worth, but if we go by numbers, the last gen consoles still hold the crown then?

Yeah but that's becoming irrelevant right now. People aren't basing current-gen success on last-gen success.

 

[test_account]

Unfortunately you are just one persons. The fact that you don't deem MS's past behavior relevant does not change the fact that the public perception of the Xbox One is in the toilet. Everything they do will be watched as if under a microscope. Despite the fact that others have utilized the same business practices, MS is beingheld to a different standard. That's the situation they find themselves in. They created the situation themselves, now they must live with it.

Its possible that this has something to do with it, yeah.

 

[Steroyd]

Fair point, but Sony is eating resources from a 3rd party for an exclusive game, which is MS is also doing but is criticized for it. The only difference is one is a well established franchise that didn't need funding to be made, but other than that it's fair game trying to get a (big) 3rd party game exclusive for your console, as Sony did with GTA III.

What does that even mean? Why is it that Tomb Raider gets ire, but something like Scalebound doesn't, which in your eyes is "the exact same thing" Think about it, you even said it yourself in the next sentence from what I bolded.

And you're right I'm not blaming MS for throwing money at the problem, but I do hate their PR and gagging CD, and I also hate SE for selling out like this while at the same time had the gall to complain that Tomb Raider achieved only3.4m sales in one month and then do this shitty move that's going to stunt the franchise from growing further.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

I don't think the game being cross-gen will hold back the XB1 and other versions. The game is expected to support Mantle on the PC side of things, and this was already confirmed, which means chances are high it also supports DX12.

You think that there's no difference between a cross-gen game that has to be catered to the last gen machines and a current gen game designed from the ground up for current gen consoles?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Fair point, but Sony is eating resources from a 3rd party for an exclusive game, which is MS is also doing but is criticized for it.

What game was/is this?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

You think that there's no difference between a cross-gen game that has to be catered to the last gen machines and a current gen game designed from the ground up for current gen consoles?

In this case, I don't think there will be. I think the next gen game's development is going ahead with no consideration for the last gen system. And the 360 version will be its own game where the dev tries their absolute best to emulate what is happening in the next gen console and PC versions. If they can't make it happen, then they change it as much as they need to in order for it to work. Just because there's a last gen version of the game doesn't always mean the next gen version can't truly take advantage of the hardware. I feel the game is being designed first and foremost for next gen.