Is "Everybody's going to the Rapture" similar to the Tomb Raider X1 deal? Uh no

StuBurns said:
But you're not calling it what it is. Money hat has a meaning, you're just completely nullifying it with your definition, to the point making games is money hatting.
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That's exactly what I took from that. A Moneyhat is throwing money at someone so that they'll do something they weren't originally going to do. Tomb Raider is a money hat, to keep it off other consoles, so was GTA back in the day. Scalebound and Bloodborne are not moneyhats. Porting a game isn't a moneyhat. Making a game exclusive in exchange for helping it be made, as otherwise it wouldn't be, and the developer even asked for help, is not a moneyhat.
 
StuBurns said:
But you're not calling it what it is. Money hat has a meaning, you're just completely nullifying it with your definition, to the point making games is money hatting.
Click to expand...

Money hat no longer has a meaning in my opinion. There have been and there are so many exclusive DLC deals. Exclusive debuts. Exclusive this. Exclusive that. Over the past few years. All of these are money hats. All of these are the norm.

"Money hat" has lost all meaning. Every single platform holder does it.

This is why I was slightly shocked and, ultimately, amused at the backlash behind Rise and such. It's old school tactics. It's just been so long since we've seen it so overt that people flipped their shit.

In the end, you will still get to play the game on your console of choice when it comes to Rise of the Tomb Raider. PC gamers (the game it was announced on and the main fanbase for this company) will NOT get to play EGTTR EVER.

Thus, it's worse.

shacklesmcgee said:
That's exactly what I took from that. A Moneyhat is throwing money at someone so that they'll do something they weren't originally going to do. Tomb Raider is a money hat, to keep it off other consoles, so was GTA back in the day. Scalebound and Bloodborne are not moneyhats. Porting a game isn't a moneyhat. Making a game exclusive in exchange for helping it be made, as otherwise it wouldn't be, and the developer even asked for help, is not a moneyhat.
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See, you don't know this. Do you honestly think this deal wasn't in place for a very long time? Long before E3 even? Give me a break. Big business doesn't work like that.
 
alexandros said:
Before Dear Esther was released they were expecting less than 20.000 sales. They ended up selling close to (maybe over) a million units. Given this fact I think it would have been nice if they had given the PC community the chance to surprise them once again. They preferred the security of Sony but it's hard not to be disappointed by their decision as a PC gamer.
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I get what you're saying, but it could be that their concept of the game is just too big. Kickstarter is great for smaller projects, but if they require more money there's no way they're getting it. If they need something like 5, 10 million bucks, who knows. Not to mention, Kickstarter doesn't come with the expert help of SSM.

And if they did Kickstart and then it failed, the PC crowd is incredibly fickle about stuff like that. They'd quickly turn on them. They probably didn't feel like dealing with that hassle (like having to do a second kickstarter or stuff like that, see the flak Tim Schafer got).

Kintaro said:
Money hat no longer has a meaning in my opinion. There have been and there are so many exclusive DLC deals. Exclusive debuts. Exclusive this. Exclusive that. Over the past few years. All of these are money hats. All of these are the norm.

"Money hat" has lost all meaning. Every single platform holder does it.

.
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Money hat does have a meaning, it's paying money to someone to do something that wasn't originally planned (EX. Paying to keep TF off of PS or paying to delay TR on PC/PS). Stuff like exclusive DLC comes with marketing agreement wherein the console holder puts up money for marketing and inexchange gets some small pieces of exclusive DLC (Most of which are entirely useless anyways, so it's not like you're loosing much).
 
alexandros said:
Actually they said themselves that they didn't even try to secure additional funds through Kickstarter or Early Access. It's right there in the article.
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Zia said:
Yes, I'm well aware of the game's publishing situation as I have been following the game since it was an idea. My point was that this, again, wasn't like Bloodborne or Bayonetta 2, something that was publisher driven. Sony didn't miracle it into existence. They could have signed a multipatform publishing deal, and I personally think a Kickstarter could have worked. They decided Sony was their best option and that's fine.
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The devs said themselves that they didn't think Kickstarter would work, so they did exhaust their options in their own mind. I don't think armchair economics are appropriate here, and I think it's reasonable to assume the devs are smart enough to know their options.
 
shem935 said:
I didn't say it was anything like those. I'm saying it isn't anything akin to the tomb raider deal, which you aren't arguing so I don't know where the disagreement is.
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You stated that it wouldn't have existed. I'm clarifying that not only could have, but it did in some fashion. No, I don't think it's anything at all like the Tomb Raider deal and no, I don't think the OP is correct, but as it was first announced for PC I think things are a little greyer than most first-party exclusives.

I don't know where I got those examples either though, sorry. Must've combined your post with someone else's.
 
Kintaro said:
Money hat no longer has a meaning in my opinion
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If you don't think it has a meaning, stop using it.


As for The Rapture, I think a KS would have been a bad idea. Once you've shared your idea, and people have paid for it, you'd be more obligated to do what you said. That game has completely changed since it's announcement. It used to be that you play the same hour over and over again, now it isn't, God knows what else has changed. A traditional publisher relationship still has advantages.
 
nynt9 said:
The devs said themselves that they didn't think Kickstarter would work, so they did exhaust their options in their own mind. I don't think armchair economics are appropriate here, and I think it's reasonable to assume the devs are smart enough to know their options.
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I agree. The Chinese Room already has enough issues with salty PC gamers accusing them of not making 'real' games. Why bother courting people that shit on you in obnoxious ways?
 
StuBurns said:
If you don't think it has a meaning, stop using it.
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Gladly if the world would move on from it. Obviously, a lot of this forum has not.

Dragonborn said:
Money hat does have a meaning, it's paying money to someone to do something that wasn't originally planned (EX. Paying to keep TF off of PS or paying to delay TR on PC/PS).
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Again. How do you know this? Do you honestly think these things are penned over night? You don't think these things aren't worked on far in advance to the point where is WAS originally planned? Come on now.
 
Dragonborn said:
Money hat does have a meaning, it's paying money to someone to do something that wasn't originally planned (EX. Paying to keep TF off of PS or paying to delay TR on PC/PS). Stuff like exclusive DLC comes with marketing agreement wherein the console holder puts up money for marketing and inexchange gets some small pieces of exclusive DLC (Most of which are entirely useless anyways, so it's not like you're loosing much).
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This is what I meant but said in a much better way, thank you dovahkiin
 
Zia said:
You stated that it wouldn't have existed. I'm clarifying that not only could have, but it did in some fashion. No, I don't think it's anything at all like the Tomb Raider deal and no, I don't think the OP is correct, but as it was first announced for PC I think things are a little greyer than most first-party exclusives.

I don't know where I got those examples either though, sorry. Must've combined your post with someone else's.
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I meant exist as a buy able product. Obviously the game was code on someone's hard drive but the game would not have existed past that point without additional support and funding.
 
Kintaro said:
Gladly if the world would move on from it. Obviously, a lot of this forum has not.



Again. How do you know this? Do you honestly think these things are penned over night? You don't think these things aren't worked on far in advance to the point where is WAS originally planned? Come on now.
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We know PS version of TF were in the pipeline given hints made by Respawn and their reaction to the full exclusivity agreement. Not to mention, I believe they picked Source since it ran well on PS3 (not too sure about this, remember reading that).

As for TR, come on. Are you seriously telling me they didn't plan to have it multiplat? The fact that it's timed is indication enough.
 
alexandros said:
Yeah, I'm sure that was the reason.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/indie/dear-esther-has-now-sold-well-over-750000-copies-thanks-humble-bundle



They sound distraught.
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I guess you missed out on the numerous NeoGAF discussions, comment threads on news websites, and hyperbole on Steam forums that accuse both games I mentioned as being 'non-games' that aren't worth your time. Opinions are fine but calling them 'not games' because of limited interaction is flat bullshit. A sale on Dear Esther doesn't necessarily prove your point. People buy anything on sale. Ever heard of Bad Rats?
 
Marcel said:
I guess you missed out on the numerous NeoGAF discussions, comment threads on news websites, and hyperbole on Steam forums that accuse both games I mentioned as being 'non-games' that aren't worth your time. Opinions are fine but calling them 'not games' because of limited interaction is flat bullshit. A sale on Dear Esther doesn't necessarily prove your point. People buy anything on sale. Ever heard of Bad Rats?
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But are you saying the 'non-games' opinion is limited to the PC audience? I imagine if you look at PlayStation forums with threads about Proteus, you will find it there also.
 
StuBurns said:
But are you saying the 'non-games' opinion is limited to the PC audience? I imagine if you look at PlayStation forums with threads about Proteus, you will find it there also.
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That's a fair point. I'm sure you would see similar things on a Playstation Blog comments section. That said, I am only speaking to the games they have on PC: Dear Esther and Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs which are both games despite what some, uh, 'enthusiasts' would have you believe.
 
Dragonborn said:
As for TR, come on. Are you seriously telling me they didn't plan to have it multiplat? The fact that it's timed is indication enough. A
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It's still multiplat. How has that changed? It hasn't. What WAS planned is the timed exclusive.

As for Respawn/EA/MS. Respawn doesn't strike me as very smart since they fought to get away from one giant ass publisher just to go to another giant ass publisher. So, I don't take them at their words very much. Also, who cares? Obviously EA and MS has business dealings. Respawn is beholden to EA for Titanfall. That was their dumb choice. Again, that Titanfall deal was in the works for awhile.
 
Kintaro said:
It's still multiplat. How has that changed? It hasn't. What WAS planned is the timed exclusive.

As for Respawn/EA/MS. Respawn doesn't strike me as very smart since they fought to get away from one giant ass publisher just to go to another giant ass publisher. So, I don't take them at their words very much. Also, who cares? Obviously EA and MS has business dealings. Respawn is beholden to EA for Titanfall. That was their dumb choice. Again, that Titanfall deal was in the works for awhile.
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I very much doubt SE was planning on skipping out on the PS audience before MS rolled up with their barrels of cash. As for who cars, I was answering your question. And yes, Respawn made a bad call going to EA, those guys just can't catch a break.
 
Marcel said:
That's a fair point. I'm sure you would see similar things on a Playstation Blog comments section. That said, I am only speaking to the games they have on PC: Dear Esther and Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs which are both games despite what some, uh, 'enthusiasts' would have you believe.
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A good point, obviously TCR would be far more familiar with the feedback of their games, which until now are PC only.

I was actually hoping to see Dear Esther Unity come to PS4, but alas, nothing yet.
 
It doesn't matter what platform it's on, I'm interested in the game but I don't really have high hopes for it. I doubt that it'll come to PC though, but that's fine.

Marcel said:
I agree. The Chinese Room already has enough issues with salty PC gamers accusing them of not making 'real' games. Why bother courting people that shit on you in obnoxious ways?
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NFmw5qu.gif


Enhanced Steam's top 100 helpful reviews aggregate:

VJHlGLj.png


Generalizing a large group of people is always a good idea, because obviously all PC gamers overwhelming hate and shit on the Chinese Room as evident by this image.

Your post is bad (and makes you should like a fanboy), and you should feel bad.
 
Nobody cares that TR is a exclusive. What people care about is that its a sequel that has gone exclusive. Or so we thought.
 
BinaryPork2737 said:
It doesn't matter what platform it's on, I'm interested in the game but I don't really have high hopes for it. I doubt that it'll come to PC though, but that's fine.



NFmw5qu.gif


Enhanced Steam's top 100 helpful reviews aggregate:

VJHlGLj.png


Generalizing a large group of people is always a good idea, because obviously all PC gamers overwhelming hate and shit on the Chinese Room as evident by this image.

Your post is bad (and makes you should like a fanboy), and you should feel bad.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about ratings and I never said anything about them. Go to the Steam forums or old NeoGAF discussions about those games to see what I mean.

And your fanboy accusation is bullshit. You're reaching for things to say. Find in my post history where I'm a 'fanboy' of anything. I'll wait.
 
Dragonborn said:
I very much doubt SE was planning on skipping out on the PS audience before MS rolled up with their barrels of cash. As for who cars, I was answering your question. And yes, Respawn made a bad call going to EA, those guys just can't catch a break.
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They aren't skipping the PS audience.

"Who cares" was bad wording. The TF deal is the same thing. Respawn may have had whatever plans, but they made themselves beholden to EA and EA had dealings with MS. I don't have any problem with that what so ever. EA liked money. MS is trying to make their console more attractive.

One thing about Titanfall though. At least it didn't skip PC. EGTTR will never see it's originally announced platform because Sony bought the IP. More gamers had access to TF than will EGTTR. They allowed their IP to be bought. It's worse in my eyes. I don't hold it against them though.
 
Kintaro said:
They aren't skipping the PS audience.

"Who cares" was bad wording. The TF deal is the same thing. Respawn may have had whatever plans, but they made themselves beholden to EA and EA had dealings with MS. I don't have any problem with that what so ever. EA liked money. MS is trying to make their console more attractive.

One thing about Titanfall though. At least it didn't skip PC. EGTTR will never see it's originally announced platform because Sony bought the IP. More gamers had access to TF than will EGTTR. They allowed their IP to be bought. It's worse in my eyes. I don't hold it against them though.
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So you'd rather the game be not made at all?

The developers stated that they didn't think they could make the game they wanted without a bigger publishers help.

Also if Valve at stepped in and funded development and made the game Steam only would you be this upset?
 
alexandros said:
With the news that Microsoft is going to spend money on developing and advertising Rise of the Tomb Raider in exchange for (some form of) exclusivity, I remembered the case of the formerly PC game, now PS4 exclusive "Everybody's going to the Rapture". Here's the thread from way back when it was revealed that the game wouldn't come to PC after all:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658373

For those who don't want to read through all of it, here's the gist:

- The Chinese Room are the developers of Dear Esther.
- Everybody's Going To The Rapture was announced as a PC and possibly console game.
- About a year after the original announcement the game became a PS4 exclusive.
- Sony is helping with funding and Sony Santa Monica with the development.

So, are these cases similar at all?
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knowing your hidden agenda of putting sony at dark spot every time you can you're grasping at straws here, there is a huge difference between them. EGTTR is a new indie game developed by a small studio with no huge publisher to back them up, they were helped by sony financially to finish their game in exchange of exclusivity. TB on the other hand is a 20 years old triple-AAA title that sold millions and upon millions over the years. it was also a multi platform title that saw the release of the definitive edition of their most recent TB game on the PS4 six months ago.


CD doesn't need the support of MS(or any other company) to finish the sequel to the reboot, its just ridiculous to even think this way. they did for the money, i am 100% sure that they were paid for every PS4 copy that they lost or else why?
 
The perils of announcing your project early.

No OP not even close. It is a co production now so just move on or buy a PlayStation.


I got a giggle out of this Tomb Raider nonsence though. The notion that Square Enix is like some boutique publisher incapable of funding and promoting a AAA title like Tomb Raider without the aid of a platform holder is absurd.

That Crystal Dynamics after many many years of multi platform development find themselves struggling to make this game concurrently on three (never been so similar inside) systems without the aid of Saint Spencer is especially amusing.

But lets say CD were having difficulties, where's Eidos' old favourite porting house Nixxes in all this. Surely they could've helped in much the same way that Ivory Tower had a full plate with the PC/Xbox One versions of The Crew, the PS4 port landed at Reflections and the 360 game elsewhere still.


The PR people involved aren't even trying.
 
I don't know what petulant means but I'm going to assume it's bad :)

Here's the problem with this as simply as I can put it. The PC community supported their company through the indie fund and the great Dear Esther sales. So as a 'thank you' to this community The Chinese Room says " you have to spend 400 dollars to have the right to buy our game". They really should be ashamed.
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As I said in the other thread:
Their attitude deserves a boycott, no matter how
they try to rationalize it. They got funded by the
Indie Fund, did great sales on PC and jumped to
console exclusivity immediately. This really is
nothing short of despicable as far as I'm
concerned, I will not buy A Machine For Pigs or
any other Chinese Room game in the future.
They have every right to make a business
decision as professionals, I also have a right as
a consumer to vote with my wallet and express
my displeasure.
Click to expand...

.
 
Still feeling the bite from Redlynx betrayal to their original funding fans when they went microsoft exclusive. What a shit move...
 
alexandros said:
Before Dear Esther was released they were expecting less than 20.000 sales. They ended up selling close to (maybe over) a million units. Given this fact I think it would have been nice if they had given the PC community the chance to surprise them once again. They preferred the security of Sony but it's hard not to be disappointed by their decision as a PC gamer.
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Then be proud of them as a gamer. Not as a PC gamer but as a gamer.

They wanted to get their vision made into the game no matter what, and they decided this was their best chance to get it done. Respect that.
 
 
Sendou said:
Where's the meltdown? I don't agree with him but I think he presented himself pretty reasonably.
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Yeah, it isn't so much a meltdown as it yet another example of alexandros' delusions.

I wouldn't label much of what he says 'reasonable'.
 
alexandros said:
Before Dear Esther was released they were expecting less than 20.000 sales. They ended up selling close to (maybe over) a million units. Given this fact I think it would have been nice if they had given the PC community the chance to surprise them once again. They preferred the security of Sony but it's hard not to be disappointed by their decision as a PC gamer.
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It's perfectly fine to be disappointed but it's been an entire fucking year. If you want to play it that badly, buy a PS4. If you don't, why are you still whinging about it?
 
just different enough that you can be foaming at the mouth in outrage at one and completely on board with the other.
 
StuBurns said:
Good point, you make no effort whatsoever to hide your trolling, it's actually admirable.
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But he isn't so much anti-Sony as massively pro PC and Steam.

On topic, the Chinese Room is a small developer and Square Enix is a moderately large publisher. That is a pretty large distinction.

Sendou said:
Yeah I saw those.
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Boycotting the pc (mac/linux) exclusive Bay of Pigs hurts Frictional. And the other posts seem to indicate a complete rejection of the publisher system. Like From doesn't decide the platforms, the publisher be it Sony or Namco does that.

Going by his ridiculous logic, From should have been working with Sony ages ago since Demon's Souls was published by Sony (and Atlus).
 
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