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[Nickle]

I'm going to spoil the ending of classic mode.

 

[JediLink]

I believe what I said before was I play a guy on GAF, no? Boys' club satire, "that would be tits," etc. Doesn't really matter.

Oh, well now I don't know what to think. Is Neiteio a lad or a lass? Clearly, the only solution to this puzzle is tits or GTFO.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Neoxon]

I'm spoiling the roster.

 

[random25]

So how far will you guys go with spoilers once the game releases?

I'm gonna definitely spoil the roster.

Definitely look into if online play is good. (just so I know)


Maybe look into movesets for veterans, e.g. ganondorf.

Outside of those things I wanna try and stay spoiler free in regards to content.

I'm fine with the roster. Impressions of the game is much appreciated. (Regardless of any kind of impressions, I'm still gonna buy anyway )

 

[Star Falcon]

It's not just Snake that goes. All that Metal Gear universe - the Stages, Mech Units as Stage hazards, Music (Dead Cell worked so well in Smash) etc etc... a shame.

The removal of characters is a weird thing for Smash. As an all star game, the characters featured are characters people already know and like. They are characters that excite fans by being featured. While other fighting games have their staples, characters also come and go all the time. Mortal Kombat X, for example, is having a launch roster that's almost half new characters people have no previous attachment to.

But with Smash, you might have been waiting seven years to see your character appear. Then, if they made it, you have them for seven more. You potentially have a fourteen year relationship with that character and Smash Bros. I mean, look at people still playing Melee. The people who took the time to recreate Mewtwo in Project M. You get attached. Any fighter can become "your character."

From a development standpoint, it is inevitable that characters will be cut or altered. Characters become less relevant, or less popular, and the time it takes to include them is less justifiable. We lost a lot of characters from Melee to Brawl, clones or not, and we've already lost some friends from Brawl to Smash 4. But losing fighters, no matter how often it happens, is never going to be easy for their fans.

If Mewtwo isn't in Smash 4, I will never get over it. I never played as Mewtwo in Melee. But I love Mewtwo. Mewtwo is missing for me. And after seven years of waiting for Brawl after Melee and seven years of waiting for Smash 4 after Brawl, I'm prepared to go another seven years waiting to see if Mewtwo is in Smash 5.

Smash Bros characters aren't nobodies. They're my childhood heroes, they're my friends. I never played as Squirtle or Ivysaur, or Lucas or Snake for that matter, but I know those guys. We've hung out with the same people since 2007.

I know this is all very romantic and not everybody is attached to Nintendo characters, but I will never be happy to see somebody go.

Great post. I don't feel quite as sentimental as this, but agreed that most of the characters in previous Smash games were there for a reason and its a bit of a shame.

 

[JediLink]

You mean this?

Hang on, when the heck was that shown?

 

[PadWarrior]

So, since the CPP is not in the game, for whatever stupid reason, how do people feel about the lack of C-Stick on 3DS?

Here, you can see KI's symbol for the CPP which is absent in the Smash 3DS box art:

I've been practicing not using the c stick on the gamecube controller and wii classic controller. Also been playing Kirby fighters. It's been an easy transition.

 

[Hot Coldman]

meh

like Sonic, the Metal Gear bits of Brawl felt kinda undercooked

the only character trophies were for Snake, different Snakes and Gray Fox? Sakurai pls

 

[random25]

So, since the CPP is not in the game, for whatever stupid reason, how do people feel about the lack of C-Stick on 3DS?

Here, you can see KI's symbol for the CPP which is absent in the Smash 3DS box art:

I haven't played a Smash game using the right analog stick for smash attacks. So no problems on my part.

 

[Mr.Miyamoto]

Sakurai has zero issues with clones, so I don't see why he'd cut characters based of that. Toon Link is back and unchanged and we have a newcomer who is a clone of Marth. Wolf isn't going to be cut because of his small similarities to Fox and it is very likely that Falco is going to keep his Brawl moveset.

I'm only saying it because 3/4 of the characters cut from Melee -> Brawl were clones and that makes them more dispensable from a balance perspective. When their IPs are still well represented it gives them even less of a reason to stick around.

 

[BassForever]

Always sad when a character is cut especially one with a unique moveset like Snake, double when their moveset isn't really inherited by anyone else. They really should have grabbed Andy or Sami from AW and given them a modified version of Snakes moveset, maybe it'll still happen.

Agree with Ash the fact Snake isn't on the back of the box with Mega Man, Pac Man, and Sonic means he's most likely gone.

Does the text near the 3rd parties mention needing to unlock them or does it just say "play with some of gamings greatest icons"

 

[Jawmuncher]

Its when we stop believing in The Last Guardian Snake that everything is lost!

Spoiler

but seriously, I hope he's still in

His inclusion in brawl is what got me into smash. As well as more into the Nintendo universe. If he's not back for me a piece of Nintendo history is lost. The piece that started it for me.

 

[Spinosaurus]

meh

like Sonic, the Metal Gear bits of Brawl felt kinda undercooked

the only character trophies were for Snake, different Snakes and Gray Fox? Sakurai pls

Pliskin, Naked Snake, Metal Gear RAY and REX, Shagohod, Gekko, Cypher and a Cardboard Box all got a trophy, actually.

 

[The Bankslammer]

Does the text near the 3rd parties mention needing to unlock them or does it just say "play with some of gamings greatest icons"

"Guest characters also join the battle!"

 

[Fireblend]

I'm choosing to believe Lucas is still in the game despite what anyone might say. Including Sakurai. </denial>

 

[Ryce]

Does the text near the 3rd parties mention needing to unlock them or does it just say "play with some of gamings greatest icons"

"Guest characters join the battle."

Edit: Beaten.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Pliskin, Naked Sake, Metal Gear RAY and REX, Shagohod, Gekko, Cypher and a Cardboard Box, actually.

I meant characters, as in things that can talk and have backstory, not robots or items

 

[Beelzebufo]

It's a shame that Snake won't be back, but it shouldn't be a surprise at this point. Hopefully Lucas follows as well.

 

[JediLink]

I haven't played a Smash game using the right analog stick for smash attacks. So no problems on my part.

C-stick is really important at high levels. It lets you do things that would ordinarily by impossible without TAS, like smash attacks during dash pivots or aerials while moving in the opposite direction.

 

[georly]

I'm going to spoil the ending of classic mode.

I Hope the credits go back to melee/64, but I don't see that being possible. Adding more and more and more means credits are longer and longer, so you have to change it up a bit. Brawl's credits were lame though.

Maybe they can take a cue from punch-out!! Wii's credits.

 

[Samurai_Heart]

I haven't played a Smash game using the right analog stick for smash attacks. So no problems on my part.

Treehouse rules: "No C sticking" =P

 

[Stoze]

Pliskin, Naked Snake, Metal Gear RAY and REX, Shagohod, Gekko, Cypher and a Cardboard Box all got a trophy, actually.

What made Snake's entry so crazy to me were these trophies and the fact a Gekko appears in the Shadow Moses stage, and this was before MGS4 was even out. That shit is surreal.

 

[J@hranimo]

I refuse to believe Mother characters are cut.

Ice Climbers will return.

and R.I.P. Snake. You were fun in Brawl, but at least we can continue to use you in Project M.

 

[MaverickHunterAsh]

Wow, the schadenfreude in this thread is pathetic. "Hah! A character that doesn't deserve to be in my beloved Smash Bros. is cut!"

Snake brought with him a charm and playstyle that no other Nintendo character can replace and the game is lesser for losing out on him.

Right? I will never understand why people have to be assholes about characters getting cut. Not caring about a character one way or the other is one thing, but what actual reason is there to go out of your way to kick people while they're down and revel in their misery? We've seen a troubling amount of that in this series of threads, too. I hate people

Spoiler

Smash players

sometimes.

The removal of characters is a weird thing for Smash. As an all star game, the characters featured are characters people already know and like. They are characters that excite fans by being featured. While other fighting games have their staples, characters also come and go all the time. Mortal Kombat X, for example, is having a launch roster that's almost half new characters people have no previous attachment to.

But with Smash, you might have been waiting seven years to see your character appear. Then, if they made it, you have them for seven more. You potentially have a fourteen year relationship with that character and Smash Bros. I mean, look at people still playing Melee. The people who took the time to recreate Mewtwo in Project M. You get attached. Any fighter can become "your character."

From a development standpoint, it is inevitable that characters will be cut or altered. Characters become less relevant, or less popular, and the time it takes to include them is less justifiable. We lost a lot of characters from Melee to Brawl, clones or not, and we've already lost some friends from Brawl to Smash 4. But losing fighters, no matter how often it happens, is never going to be easy for their fans.

If Mewtwo isn't in Smash 4, I will never get over it. I never played as Mewtwo in Melee. But I love Mewtwo. Mewtwo is missing for me. And after seven years of waiting for Brawl after Melee and seven years of waiting for Smash 4 after Brawl, I'm prepared to go another seven years waiting to see if Mewtwo is in Smash 5.

Smash Bros characters aren't nobodies. They're my childhood heroes, they're my friends. I never played as Squirtle or Ivysaur, or Lucas or Snake for that matter, but I know those guys. We've hung out with the same people since 2007.

I know this is all very romantic and not everybody is attached to Nintendo characters, but I will never be happy to see somebody go.

Wow. Epic post, maybe the best one in all of Thread 12. Nailed it.

 

[Karsticles]

Why is Ness in doubt?

 

[Mr.Miyamoto]

So, since the CPP is not in the game, for whatever stupid reason, how do people feel about the lack of C-Stick on 3DS?

The C-Stick is at the heart of how I play Smash, so I imagine I'll be much, much worse at the 3DS version without it to rely on. I might have to switch my primary character away from Marth to compensate.

 

[-Horizon-]

His inclusion in brawl is what got me into smash. As well as more into the Nintendo universe. If he's not back for me a piece of Nintendo history is lost. The piece that started it for me.

I completely understand.
I recall a lot of my friends also got into Smash because they thought "oh my god, Snake is in this fighting game?! Gotta get it!"

 

[The Great Gonzales]

So, since the CPP is not in the game, for whatever stupid reason, how do people feel about the lack of C-Stick on 3DS?

Here, you can see KI's symbol for the CPP which is absent in the Smash 3DS box art:

Strange that Smash doesn't support the CPP; I fully expected that it would. Anyhow, it doesn't really matter to me, as I almost never used the C-Stick. Circle Pad + A suits me just fine.

So how far will you guys go with spoilers once the game releases?

I'll look at everything - roster, stages, items, game modes, etc. I hardly even consider them "spoilers," since they're not related to a plot or anything. I don't expect surprises in fighting games.

 

[friskykillface]

Man its been 7 years since Brawl released? The hell am I doing with my life

It'll be like 12 am or night in EST when the game releases on the eshop in Japan so I'll probably stay awake all night in case Sakurai doesn't release the entire roster

Gotta see the meltdowns on here

I wonder if new threads will be made for each new character unlocked on here

 

[SuperSah]

I'll assume Sakurai saw it as a slight disadvantage to have CPP as all GC players had a C-Stick, most 3DS players will not.

Oh well, Smashing with direction and A works fine either way.

 

[BGBW]

So how far will you guys go with spoilers once the game releases?

I'll probably just look up the roster since that's likely going to be talked about a lot and will be hard to avoid. Anything else is just a case of seeing how it goes. I expect GAF to be fairly respectful when it comes to spoilers so I may end up with some surprises by the time the 3DS version rolls out.

When we finally get the 3DS version how long will the roster be considered a spoiler? Do we have to wait for the Wii U version to talk about it in the open?

 

[Zubz]

I really hope Nightmare (Metroid Fusion) is either an Adventure Mode boss or an Assist Trophy. He would be really suited to fucking up the dynamics of Smash platforming.

I'd be down for Nightmare in some form. Besides, isn't today's Nightmare usually just Nightmare as well? Why add the Wizard? It feels like they're trying to instill a 1 Nightmare limit.

And everyone feasible better be back; even if they're not on the roster, I want them as DLC. And I hate that I know that'll pay for them, as well as anyone else they add, at full price on Day 1...

 

[theprodigy]

I'm going to spoil the ending of classic mode.

beat up Master Hand (potentially with Crazy Hand)

oops I already spoiled it

Spoiler

inb4 it's different

 

[User 73706]

Why is Ness in doubt?

The same reason Ridley isn't a stage boss and is without a doubt playable.

Spoiler

fandom echo chamber taking dumb conjecture and running with it.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Finale's post is indeed epic and worthy of applause. *Applauds*

On the subject of spoiling, it was the spoiling of "Ganondroff" in Melee that got me to create to create this account... I'm gonna love seeing spoilers posted all day erry day...

 

[Gartooth]

So how far will you guys go with spoilers once the game releases?

I'm gonna definitely spoil the roster.

Definitely look into if online play is good. (just so I know)


Maybe look into movesets for veterans, e.g. ganondorf.

Outside of those things I wanna try and stay spoiler free in regards to content.

I'm conflicted about spoiling the roster. I want to spoil myself on veterans just to get the disappointment out of the way for who gets cut, but for newcomers I want to be surprised.

 

[emb]

Why is Ness in doubt?

I think I've seen almost every remaining character in doubt at this point. (Very rarely for Ganondorf, and I'm not sure I've seen anyone doubt Wario.)

The closer we get to release without knowing any particular character, the more people start to panic/doubt.

 

[Geminosity]

So how far will you guys go with spoilers once the game releases?

I'll just read everything :3 While I like surprises I don't see any point in dragging it out, especially as I'll need the roster unlocked ASAP anyhoo just to play against my friends (at least on wii-u... I suspect it won't stop other players picking characters they've unlocked just because you haven't got them yet on your 3DS)

For now though... come on smash directs! we've got less than a month to go and there's still those few trailers left on the 'stack' to reveal

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I'm choosing to believe Lucas is still in the game despite what anyone might say. Including Sakurai. </denial>

Lucas, if cut, is somewhat of a small tragedy.

When Lucas was added to Brawl, Mother was still an active franchise. Mother 3 had just come out in 2006 and the games certainly had a little bit of development overlap. Lucas made sense because a new installment of the Mother series was coming.

But we all know what happened with Mother 3. It became possibly the textbook definition of a cult game. It didn't get localized anywhere and received very little merchandise despite its quality. When the American fan base started to build and work on their own translation, Lucas's inclusion in Brawl validated their entire cause. Now Lucas and Mother 3 were not some tiny little Japanese RPG nobody had ever heard of. Now they were pushed into the forefront of Nintendo culture with representation that made them present and identifiable in the multi-million member fan base of Super Smash Bros.

Mother 3's popularity swelled and the fan translation was finished. You can now buy actual GBA cartridges with the translated game and it's really a miraculous thing to have experienced. But now it's over. Mother 3 was translated. Its fans made their own destiny and the fight is pretty much over. In Japan, Mother 3 is now an old GBA game that hasn't had the same staying power or impact as Mother 2. In America, the fight for Mother 3 has ended. It's a brand people recognize from the publicity, whether they play it or not, and against all odds Mother 3 and Lucas got their moment in Brawl.

Lucas and Mother 3 were enormously benefited by Smash Bros for American fans who would have never heard of them otherwise. They managed to stay on the forefront of Nintendo mascots for the duration of Brawl's reign. But if Lucas is cut from Smash 4, the cultural relevancy of Mother 3 comes to an end. The verdict will be made: Earthbound is the game to immortalize, not Mother 3.

Smash Bros has the power to secure the relevance and popularity of characters and series. We watched Melee launch Fire Emblem in America, we watched Brawl revive Kid Icarus, and have watched the entire Smash series bring interest and attention to the whole Mother series. Earthbound went 18 years without another American release. Without Smash, where would Ness be?

Without Smash, where will Lucas and Mother 3 go? Back the the background of the Nintendo catalog, sidelined indefinitely, its moment over.

And that's sad to me.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Where does that box-art picture even come from?

U-unless...could we be at the moment of truth?

 

[JediLink]

Fuck all this "spoilers" shit. Just tell me everything. Every single detail. Tell me how much shield damage a fully charged Sun Salutation does.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I meant characters, as in things that can talk and have backstory, not robots or items

Ah crap, I missed the part where you said characters lol.

Just Big Boss then.

 

[User 73706]

I know Wii Fit Trainer is basically the G&W / ROB of the game, but I can't help but feel that there's got to be another endgame newcomer along those lines we don't know about.

 

[random25]

For what it's worth:

Sakurai cuts characters, obviously, but if we base it from each iteration of Smash, he cuts some but replaces them from the same franchise equally in terms of quantity, or sometimes adds more to it. Case in point:
- Mewtwo and Pichu was cut, but replaced by Pokemon Trainer and Lucario
- Roy was cut, but Ike was added.
- Kirby got 2 additional reps.
- Mother got 1 additional rep.
- Starfox got 1 additional rep.
- I know Dr. Mario got cut, but he's just Mario in an alt costume anyway (disregarding the additional advantages the doctor have over vanilla Mario).

If we follow that pattern, Smash 4 will have:
- If you count Pokemon trainer as 3 separate entities, then at least 2 more Pokemon reps. If not, then I'm simply expecting 1 more (Jigglypuff) to have an increased Pokemon roster.
- Mother will still have at least 2 reps. If Lucas will get cut, a new Mother rep will still be there to replace him.
- I'm pretty confident Falco and Wolf will still be in. The only possible additional/replacement for either one of them are Slippy and Krystal.
- Ice Climbers has a very good chance of returning. If not, Sakurai will probably dig into HAL Labs' franchise to replace it.

As for Snake, it's pretty much between Konami and Nintendo negotiations. With Konami not putting up any kind of support to any Nintendo platform as of late, I'm not sure if they are ever keeping in touch during the game's development. I would like to be surprised, though.

 

[emb]

Where does that box-art picture even come from?

U-unless...could we be at the moment of truth?

From the other thread:

It's definitely the packaging for the final download version. You can buy them a couple of weeks in advance of the release date.

 

[PadWarrior]

I just want to know when master foot will join the battle

 

[Fandangox]

- Mother will still have at least 2 reps. If Lucas will get cut, a new Mother rep will still be there to replace him.

I really don't think this has to be the case at all. I can see it either both returning, or it just being Ness. I doubt we'd get a new Mother Rep if Lucas gets cut.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Lucas, if cut, is somewhat of a small tragedy.

When Lucas was added to Brawl, Mother was still an active franchise. Mother 3 had just come out in 2006 and the games certainly had a little bit of development overlap. Lucas made sense because a new installment of the Mother series was coming.

But we all know what happened with Mother 3. It became possibly the textbook definition of a cult game. It didn't get localized anywhere and received very little merchandise despite its quality. When the American fan base started to build and work on their own translation, Lucas's inclusion in Brawl validated their entire cause. Now Lucas and Mother 3 were not some tiny little Japanese RPG nobody had ever heard of. Now they were pushed into the forefront of Nintendo culture with representation that made them present and identifiable in the multi-million member fan base of Super Smash Bros.

Mother 3's popularity swelled and the fan translation was finished. You can now buy actual GBA cartridges with the translated game and it's really a miraculous thing to have experienced. But now it's over. Mother 3 was translated. Its fans made their own destiny and the fight is pretty much over. In Japan, Mother 3 is now an old GBA game that hasn't had the same staying power or impact as Mother 2. In America, the fight for Mother 3 has ended. It's a brand people recognize from the publicity, whether they play it or not, and against all odds Mother 3 and Lucas got their moment in Brawl.

Lucas and Mother 3 were enormously benefited by Smash Bros for American fans who would have never heard of them otherwise. They managed to stay on the forefront of Nintendo mascots for the duration of Brawl's reign. But if Lucas is cut from Smash 4, the cultural relevancy of Mother 3 comes to an end. The verdict will be made: Earthbound is the game to immortalize, not Mother 3.

Smash Bros has the power to secure the relevance and popularity of characters and series. We watched Melee launch Fire Emblem in America, we watched Brawl revive Kid Icarus, and have watched the entire Smash series bring interest and attention to the whole Mother series. Earthbound went 18 years without another American release. Without Smash, where would Ness be?

Without Smash, where will Lucas and Mother 3 go? Back the the background of the Nintendo catalog, sidelined indefinitely, its moment over.

And that's sad to me.

Damn FF, you dish out the golden posts. I am on board with you on this.

 

[SliceSabre]

I'm kinda "Ehhhh" on the whole Snake being cut thing. If he's in I'm okay with that but if he's cut I'm ok with that too. I mean he's 3rd party as well so in that regard I view Roy and Pichu being cut from the Brawl roster more of a drawback than Snake getting possibly cut from Smash 4 because they're actually first party.

Another reason is games on system. Sonic has a very close relationship with Nintendo right now and Namco is helping make the game so it just kinda makes sense that Pac-man would show up. Snake? Ehh, not so much. Maybe if the recent Metal Gear games had shown up on Nintendo systems I'd feel differently.

 

[SenorArdilla]

For what it's worth:

Sakurai cuts characters, obviously, but if we base it from each iteration of Smash, he cuts some but replaces them from the same franchise equally in terms of quantity, or sometimes adds more to it. Case in point:
- Mewtwo and Pichu was cut, but replaced by Pokemon Trainer and Lucario
- Roy was cut, but Ike was added.
- Kirby got 2 additional reps.
- Mother got 1 additional rep.
- Starfox got 1 additional rep.
- I know Dr. Mario got cut, but he's just Mario in an alt costume anyway (disregarding the additional advantages the doctor have over vanilla Mario).

If we follow that pattern, Smash 4 will have:
- If you count Pokemon trainer as 3 separate entities, then at least 2 more Pokemon reps. If not, then I'm simply expecting 1 more (Jigglypuff) to have an increased Pokemon roster.
- Mother will still have at least 2 reps. If Lucas will get cut, a new Mother rep will still be there to replace him.
- I'm pretty confident Falco and Wolf will still be in. The only possible additional/replacement for either one of them are Slippy and Krystal.
- Ice Climbers has a very good chance of returning. If not, Sakurai will probably dig into HAL Labs' franchise to replace it.

As for Snake, it's pretty much between Konami and Nintendo negotiations. With Konami not putting up any kind of support to any Nintendo platform as of late, I'm not sure if they are ever keeping in touch during the game's development. I would like to be surprised, though.

I think some of those cuts were due to time constraints rather than straight out replacements. Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were all assumed to be returning in Brawl. (Mewtwo and Roy having to furthest progress within their .pac files in comparison to the other "Forbidden Seven")